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The Gipper

Best Players not in the HOF

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StadiumTalk.com   has listed what it thinks are the 25 most deserving people who are not yet in the HOF, though they are and have been eligible.   I believe it has broken them down into positions.  Here they are:

HC:   Bill Cowher,  Steelers

Punter:  Dave Jennings  Giants/Jets

Kicker:  Matt Stover  Browns/Ravens

Safety:  Tim McDonald 49ers

Safety: Johnny Robinson  Chiefs

S/CB  Dave Grayson  Raiders

CB:  Eric Allen   Eagles

LB:  Larry Grantham  Jets

LB: Leroy Jordan  Cowboys

LB: Cornelius Bennett,   Bills/Colts

DE: LC Greenwood,  Steelers

DT: Rosey Grier,  Rams

DT: Ron McDole  Redskins

DT: Alex Karras, Lions

OG: Bruno Banducci  Eagles/49ers

OT Lomas Brown  Giants

OT Jim Tyrer  Bears

OT D.i.c.k  Shafrath  Browns

OC  Kevin Mawae  Titans

TE  Pete Retzlaff Eagles

WR: Cliff Branch  Raiders

WR: Harold Jackson  Eagles

RB:  Roger Craig  49ers

RB: Edgerrin James  Colts

QB:  Ken Anderson  Bengals

https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/best-nfl-players-not-in-hall-of-fame-41a16878ca9746e3?utm_campaign=nothallfame-681d518f9f9e4218&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=fac&utm_content=247801

Tell where you agree or disagree......or who you would add at any particular position  

 

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HC:   Bill Cowher,  Steelers NO

Punter:  Dave Jennings  Giants/Jets NO

Kicker:  Matt Stover  Browns/Ravens NO

Safety:  Tim McDonald 49ers NO

Safety: Johnny Robinson  Chiefs YES

S/CB  Dave Grayson  Raiders NO

CB:  Eric Allen   Eagles NO

LB:  Larry Grantham  Jets NO

LB: Leroy Jordan  Cowboys YES

LB: Cornelius Bennett,   Bills/Colts NO

DE: LC Greenwood,  Steelers YES

DT: Rosey Grier,  Rams YES

DT: Ron McDole  Redskins NO

DT: Alex Karras, Lions YES

OG: Bruno Banducci  Eagles/49ers NO

OT Lomas Brown  Giants NO

OT Jim Tyrer  Bears YOU MEAN CHIEFS? NO

OT D.i.c.k  Shafrath  Browns YES

OC  Kevin Mawae  Titans YES

TE  Pete Retzlaff Eagles NO

WR: Cliff Branch  Raiders NO

WR: Harold Jackson  Eagles NO

RB:  Roger Craig  49ers YES

RB: Edgerrin James  Colts YES

QB:  Ken Anderson  Bengals NO

CLAY MATTHEWS

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One area of particular disagreement:   Head Coaches.   In my opinion, all of the following likely are better HOF candidates than Bill Cowher:  His mentor, Marty Schottenheimer,   Mike Shanahan,  Mike Holmgren, Chuck Knox, Dan Reeves.   Part of his problem is that he did it for a much shorter time than I think he should have.   He only was HC for 15 years,  compared to  over 20 years for most HOF coaches.   Belichick now has 24 years of coaching under his belt.

Other people just as deserving as some of the above, perhaps:

DE  Jim Marshall

LB Zach Thomas

OL Alan Faneca

OT Mike Kenn

OG Steve Wisniewski

DB John Lynch

QB  John Hadl

and, of course, LB Clay Matthews 

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I think, maybe that they don't let the likes of  Rosey Grier and Jim Marshall in because they would be the third members of a famous DL to get in:   Fearsome Foursome has  Deacon Jones and Merlin Olsen;   Purple People Eaters have  Page and Eller.   Also many other Steele Curtain defenders are in, so no go for Greenwood.

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21 minutes ago, Zombo said:

HC:   Bill Cowher,  Steelers NO

Punter:  Dave Jennings  Giants/Jets NO

Kicker:  Matt Stover  Browns/Ravens NO

Safety:  Tim McDonald 49ers NO

Safety: Johnny Robinson  Chiefs YES

S/CB  Dave Grayson  Raiders NO

CB:  Eric Allen   Eagles NO

LB:  Larry Grantham  Jets NO

LB: Leroy Jordan  Cowboys YES

LB: Cornelius Bennett,   Bills/Colts NO

DE: LC Greenwood,  Steelers YES

DT: Rosey Grier,  Rams YES

DT: Ron McDole  Redskins NO

DT: Alex Karras, Lions YES

OG: Bruno Banducci  Eagles/49ers NO

OT Lomas Brown  Giants NO

OT Jim Tyrer  Bears YOU MEAN CHIEFS? NO

OT D.i.c.k  Shafrath  Browns YES

OC  Kevin Mawae  Titans YES

TE  Pete Retzlaff Eagles NO

WR: Cliff Branch  Raiders NO

WR: Harold Jackson  Eagles NO

RB:  Roger Craig  49ers YES

RB: Edgerrin James  Colts YES

QB:  Ken Anderson  Bengals NO

CLAY MATTHEWS

I agree with Zombo here.. Only.. I would give a strong maybe to Cliff Branch and Lomas Brown.. Bill Cowher.. Your joking.. I saw nothing HOF about him.. Clay Mathews.. definitely belongs just on longevity alone.. most only last 4-6 years at the position..

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Clay Matthew's time is long overdue.

  • Upvote 1

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21 minutes ago, Dawgs89 said:

Bill Cowher shouldn't sniff the hall of fame. 4 AFCCG losses at home. 1 SB win in 1 years. He has no shot.

Well, again, it is a comparison issue.  He went to and won 1 Super Bowl.    So did coach Don McCaffrey.    Tom Flores has 2 SB victories.  George Seifert has 2,  Jimmy Johnson has 2. 

He has as many as Barry Switzer, Brian Billick,  D.i.c.k Vermeil

Mike McCarthy has almost as many career wins as Cowher, plus he has as many titles....and a much better career win pct.

Same with Mike Tomlin.....more SB appearances, better win pct., closing in on total wins.

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5 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Clay Matthew's time is long overdue.

I agree. . .

 

2E23C96B-2870-45CA-81CF-AD19D3054305.jpeg

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  • Upvote 1

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Clay Matthews Jr. should be in the HOF without question!

I remember John Madden saying Clay was the best LB in the NFL when Clay was in his mid 30s.

Mike

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Not sure about Cowher 

He only won 1 Super Bowl with one of the greatest franchises of all time

Goerge Seifort never gets a sniff. And he did the same thing

 

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Going back and looking at Zombos list

No one on  that list belongs in a hall with Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, and Lawrence Taylor

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2 hours ago, Browns149 said:

Not sure about Cowher 

He only won 1 Super Bowl with one of the greatest franchises of all time

Goerge Seifort never gets a sniff. And he did the same thing

 

Seaford won two Super Bowl’sSeaford won two Supe12

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I'd like to add another name to that list....JERRY SHERK, another Brown who, like Clay Matthews Jr, would already have been in had voting been done by their peers. Maybe they just weren't "glamorous" enough, but those 2 were FOOTBALL players.

Mike

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Lester Hayes CB  Raiders

Career highlights and awards

 

 

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31 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Lester Hayes CB  Raiders

Career highlights and awards

 

 

I always liked Hayes, HOF worthy I don't know.

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On 10/4/2018 at 7:11 PM, Canton Dawg said:

I agree. . .

 

2E23C96B-2870-45CA-81CF-AD19D3054305.jpeg

How do you play 268 games and only recover one fumble?

Zombo

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2 hours ago, Zombo said:

How do you play 268 games and only recover one fumble?

Zombo

That blows my mind too... Like I feel it almost has to be a typo?

 

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On 10/4/2018 at 12:06 PM, The Gipper said:

StadiumTalk.com   has listed what it thinks are the 25 most deserving people who are not yet in the HOF, though they are and have been eligible.   I believe it has broken them down into positions.  Here they are:

HC:   Bill Cowher,  Steelers

Punter:  Dave Jennings  Giants/Jets

Kicker:  Matt Stover  Browns/Ravens

Safety:  Tim McDonald 49ers

Safety: Johnny Robinson  Chiefs

S/CB  Dave Grayson  Raiders

CB:  Eric Allen   Eagles

LB:  Larry Grantham  Jets

LB: Leroy Jordan  Cowboys

LB: Cornelius Bennett,   Bills/Colts

DE: LC Greenwood,  Steelers

DT: Rosey Grier,  Rams

DT: Ron McDole  Redskins

DT: Alex Karras, Lions

OG: Bruno Banducci  Eagles/49ers

OT Lomas Brown  Giants

OT Jim Tyrer  Bears

OT D.i.c.k  Shafrath  Browns

OC  Kevin Mawae  Titans

TE  Pete Retzlaff Eagles

WR: Cliff Branch  Raiders

WR: Harold Jackson  Eagles

RB:  Roger Craig  49ers

RB: Edgerrin James  Colts

QB:  Ken Anderson  Bengals

https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/best-nfl-players-not-in-hall-of-fame-41a16878ca9746e3?utm_campaign=nothallfame-681d518f9f9e4218&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=fac&utm_content=247801

Tell where you agree or disagree......or who you would add at any particular position  

 

Too much bullschidt to read through. Really, who gives a phauck about this schidt? WHy not post about the Porno HOF? That would be interesting. 

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1 hour ago, Ghoolie said:

Too much bullschidt to read through. Really, who gives a phauck about this schidt? WHy not post about the Porno HOF? That would be interesting. 

Or how about the dickhead Hall of Fame you would be at the head of the line for induction

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2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Or how about the dickhead Hall of Fame you would be at the head of the line for induction

That's the first intelligent thing you have said this week.

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34 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

That's the first intelligent thing you have said this week.

We are still waiting for your first intelligent thing this weekWe are still waiting for your first intelligent thing this week

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9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

That blows my mind too... Like I feel it almost has to be a typo?

 

That's it one fumble recovery including the playoffs from pro football reference. Junior Seau already in the HOF:

  Games Def Interceptions Fumbles   Tackles    
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
Career       268 243 18 238 0 42 23 11 1 18 66 1 56.5   1522 324       187
13 yrs SDG     200 199 15 210 0 42 13 11 1 16 66 1 47.0   1286 192       160
4 yrs NWE     38 16 3 28 0 23 5 0 0 1 0 0 4.5   121 58       12
1990 21 SDG RILB 55 16 15                     1.0 85 85 0       7
1991* 22 SDG RILB 55 16 16                     7.0 129 129 0       9
1992*+ 23 SDG RLB 55 15 15 2 51 0 29 0 1 0 1 10 0 4.5 102 102 0       16
1993*+ 24 SDG RLB 55 16 16 2 58 0 42 0 1 0 1 21 0   129 129 0       15
1994*+ 25 SDG RLB 55 16 16           1 0 3 0 0 5.5 155 124 31       15
1995* 26 SDG RLB 55 16 16 2 5 0 3 0 1 0 3 30 1 2.0 130 111 19       14
1996*+ 27 SDG RLB 55 15 15 2 18 0 10 0 1 0 3 0 0 7.0 138 110 28       14
1997* 28 SDG RLB 55 15 15 2 33 0 26 0 1 1 2 5 0 7.0 97 84 13       11
1998*+ 29 SDG RLB 55 16 16           1 0 2 0 0 3.5 115 92 23       17
1999* 30 SDG LB 55 14 14 1 16 0 16 0 1 0 1 0 0 3.5 99 75 24 13 3   12
2000*+ 31 SDG lb 55 16 16 2 2 0 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 3.5 122 103 19 15 4   12
2001* 32 SDG LB 55 16 16 1 2 0 2 6 1 0 0 0 0 1.0 94 83 11 9 1   10
2002* 33 SDG LB/rolb 55 13 13 1 25 0 25 7 1 0 0 0 0 1.5 83 59 24 11 2   8
2003 34 MIA LB 55 15 15 0 0 0 0 3           3.0 96 66 30 12 2   8
2004 35 MIA LB 55 8 8 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1.0 57 31 26 5 0   5
2005 36 MIA lb 55 7 5 0 0 0 0 1           1.0 36 18 18 1 0   2
2006 37 NWE LB/mlb 55 11 10 0 0 0 0 1           1.0 69 39 30 5 4   6
2007 38 NWE lb 55 16 4 3 28 0 23 4           3.5 74 58 16 9 6   4
2008 39 NWE lb 55 4 2                       22 15 7       1
2009 40 NWE   55 7 0           0 0 1 0 0   14 9 5 0 1   1

Clay Matthews Jr. bio still waiting:

  Games Def Interceptions Fumbles   Tackles    
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
Career       278 248 16 206 1 36 0 27 1 14 29 1 69.5   1561 34       137
16 yrs CLE     232 216 14 205 1 36 0 24 1 13 29 1 62.0   1430 0       124
1978 22 CLE lb 57 15 2 1 5 0 5 0             34 34 0       1
1979 23 CLE RLB/rolb 57 16 16 1 30 0 30 0   0 2 0 0   103 103 0       6
1980 24 CLE ROLB 57 14 13 1 6 0 6 0   0 1 0 0   83 83 0       6
1981 25 CLE ROLB 57 16 16 2 14 0 8 0   0 2 16 0   128 128 0       8
1982 26 CLE lb 57 2 1                       11 11 0       1
1983 27 CLE ROLB 57 16 16           4 0 0 0 0 6.0 106 106 0       7
1984 28 CLE ROLB 57 16 16           3 0 1 0 0 12.0 126 126 0       13
1985* 29 CLE ROLB 57 14 14           1 0 1 15 0 6.0 88 88 0       10
1986 30 CLE ROLB 57 16 16 2 12 0 8 0 2 0 0 0 0 1.0 89 89 0       7
1987* 31 CLE ROLB 57 12 12 3 62 1 36 0   0 2 0 0 2.5 72 72 0       13
1988* 32 CLE ROLB 57 16 16             0 2 0 0 6.0 101 101 0       11
1989* 33 CLE LLB 57 16 16 1 25 0 25 0 3 1 2 -2 1 4.0 113 113 0       13
1990 34 CLE LLB 57 16 16           3 0 0 0 0 3.5 102 102 0       5
1991 35 CLE RLB 57 15 15 1 35 0 35 0 3 0 0 0 0 6.5 80 80 0       7
1992 36 CLE RLB 57 16 16 1 6 0 6 0 3 0 0 0 0 9.0 111 111 0       8
1993 37 CLE RLB 57 16 15 1 10 0 10 0 2 0 0 0 0 5.5 83 83 0       8
1994 38 ATL LLB 57 15 15                     1.0 90 71 19       5
1995 39 ATL LLB 57 16 16 2 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0   63 49 14       7
1996 40 ATL lb 57 15 1           3 0 0 0 0 6.5 12 11 1       1

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Nearly identical career numbers? Maybe Junior getting some sympathy votes for his tragic death? 

It does show how subjective any voted in awards can be at times.

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26 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Nearly identical career numbers? Maybe Junior getting some sympathy votes for his tragic death? 

It does show how subjective any voted in awards can be at times.

Matthews played OLB, Seau played ILB, right? 

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57 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

That's it one fumble recovery including the playoffs from pro football reference. Junior Seau already in the HOF:

  Games Def Interceptions Fumbles   Tackles    
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
Career       268 243 18 238 0 42 23 11 1 18 66 1 56.5   1522 324       187
13 yrs SDG     200 199 15 210 0 42 13 11 1 16 66 1 47.0   1286 192       160
4 yrs NWE     38 16 3 28 0 23 5 0 0 1 0 0 4.5   121 58       12
1990 21 SDG RILB 55 16 15                     1.0 85 85 0       7
1991* 22 SDG RILB 55 16 16                     7.0 129 129 0       9
1992*+ 23 SDG RLB 55 15 15 2 51 0 29 0 1 0 1 10 0 4.5 102 102 0       16
1993*+ 24 SDG RLB 55 16 16 2 58 0 42 0 1 0 1 21 0   129 129 0       15
1994*+ 25 SDG RLB 55 16 16           1 0 3 0 0 5.5 155 124 31       15
1995* 26 SDG RLB 55 16 16 2 5 0 3 0 1 0 3 30 1 2.0 130 111 19       14
1996*+ 27 SDG RLB 55 15 15 2 18 0 10 0 1 0 3 0 0 7.0 138 110 28       14
1997* 28 SDG RLB 55 15 15 2 33 0 26 0 1 1 2 5 0 7.0 97 84 13       11
1998*+ 29 SDG RLB 55 16 16           1 0 2 0 0 3.5 115 92 23       17
1999* 30 SDG LB 55 14 14 1 16 0 16 0 1 0 1 0 0 3.5 99 75 24 13 3   12
2000*+ 31 SDG lb 55 16 16 2 2 0 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 3.5 122 103 19 15 4   12
2001* 32 SDG LB 55 16 16 1 2 0 2 6 1 0 0 0 0 1.0 94 83 11 9 1   10
2002* 33 SDG LB/rolb 55 13 13 1 25 0 25 7 1 0 0 0 0 1.5 83 59 24 11 2   8
2003 34 MIA LB 55 15 15 0 0 0 0 3           3.0 96 66 30 12 2   8
2004 35 MIA LB 55 8 8 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1.0 57 31 26 5 0   5
2005 36 MIA lb 55 7 5 0 0 0 0 1           1.0 36 18 18 1 0   2
2006 37 NWE LB/mlb 55 11 10 0 0 0 0 1           1.0 69 39 30 5 4   6
2007 38 NWE lb 55 16 4 3 28 0 23 4           3.5 74 58 16 9 6   4
2008 39 NWE lb 55 4 2                       22 15 7       1
2009 40 NWE   55 7 0           0 0 1 0 0   14 9 5 0 1   1

Clay Matthews Jr. bio still waiting:

  Games Def Interceptions Fumbles   Tackles    
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
Career       278 248 16 206 1 36 0 27 1 14 29 1 69.5   1561 34       137
16 yrs CLE     232 216 14 205 1 36 0 24 1 13 29 1 62.0   1430 0       124
1978 22 CLE lb 57 15 2 1 5 0 5 0             34 34 0       1
1979 23 CLE RLB/rolb 57 16 16 1 30 0 30 0   0 2 0 0   103 103 0       6
1980 24 CLE ROLB 57 14 13 1 6 0 6 0   0 1 0 0   83 83 0       6
1981 25 CLE ROLB 57 16 16 2 14 0 8 0   0 2 16 0   128 128 0       8
1982 26 CLE lb 57 2 1                       11 11 0       1
1983 27 CLE ROLB 57 16 16           4 0 0 0 0 6.0 106 106 0       7
1984 28 CLE ROLB 57 16 16           3 0 1 0 0 12.0 126 126 0       13
1985* 29 CLE ROLB 57 14 14           1 0 1 15 0 6.0 88 88 0       10
1986 30 CLE ROLB 57 16 16 2 12 0 8 0 2 0 0 0 0 1.0 89 89 0       7
1987* 31 CLE ROLB 57 12 12 3 62 1 36 0   0 2 0 0 2.5 72 72 0       13
1988* 32 CLE ROLB 57 16 16             0 2 0 0 6.0 101 101 0       11
1989* 33 CLE LLB 57 16 16 1 25 0 25 0 3 1 2 -2 1 4.0 113 113 0       13
1990 34 CLE LLB 57 16 16           3 0 0 0 0 3.5 102 102 0       5
1991 35 CLE RLB 57 15 15 1 35 0 35 0 3 0 0 0 0 6.5 80 80 0       7
1992 36 CLE RLB 57 16 16 1 6 0 6 0 3 0 0 0 0 9.0 111 111 0       8
1993 37 CLE RLB 57 16 15 1 10 0 10 0 2 0 0 0 0 5.5 83 83 0       8
1994 38 ATL LLB 57 15 15                     1.0 90 71 19       5
1995 39 ATL LLB 57 16 16 2 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0   63 49 14       7
1996 40 ATL lb 57 15 1           3 0 0 0 0 6.5 12 11 1       1

Looks to me like Seau had 18 fumble recoveries, and the meme, made by a girl, is wrong.

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7 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Looks to me like Seau had 18 fumble recoveries, and the meme, made by a girl, is wrong.

Yes there appears to be something screwy with the numbers or the meme was done by a Matthews' family friend.

Still the real numbers are nearly identical.

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30 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Matthews played OLB, Seau played ILB, right? 

For most of their careers yes......and numbers can be influenced by teams, schemes, who's next to you all of that. The specific numbers are just a guide.

Still i think the body of work on both are close enough to seriously consider Clay anytime now.

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