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NFL Phucks Cleveland Twice in 4 Weeks

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3 hours ago, hoorta said:

We're short by inches on that play. Sure the percentages say you punt, but maybe not if your defense is a sieve, and your special teams suck. No guts no glory. Give the ball to Hyde, or qb sneak. If you can't make a foot, you don't deserve to win anyway.

I'm with Jiggins on this one, we were ready to open the victory port, and I told Bob to hold off. Just had the feeling we weren't stopping the Raiders on that drive.

I agree with that, and maybe it was a TERRIBLE call, and the fumble to. But to me there is a HUGE difference in having terrible calls and actually thinking the game was fixed.

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17 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

I agree with that, and maybe it was a TERRIBLE call, and the fumble to. But to me there is a HUGE difference in having terrible calls and actually thinking the game was fixed.

The refs quick whistle helped us early in the game.  Don't forget that.   The problem with the 3rd down running play is that it was originally called a first down and then overturned and certainly didn't seem like there was evidence to overturn the call on the field.  

I also think going for it on your own 20 with 1:50 left is a silly call that would've had 95% of you around here saying Hue should be fired for making that decision if it doesn't work.   What's the point of having a defense if you can't trust them to hold an 8 point lead?

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8 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

All this pissing and moaning about refs is embarassing

We're shameless Browns fans.

We lost the game because Hue allowed the Raiders to take control of the game at the end.

The refs gave us 4th and inches.  All we had to do was QB sneak for a couple of inches.  What are the odds for 4th and inches QB sneaks?  Gotta be over 90%.  What were the odds that we were gonna stop the Raiders after punt?  When we lost the cornerback we couldn't stop them.  And what are you telling your offensive line by foregoing the QB sneak to win the game?  Answer: I don't have faith in your ability to gain 6 inches.  

Even if he was afraid of Baker doing the sneak....put in Tyrod and tell him to smash that concussed head of his over the 1st down stripe.  

And today, Hue comes out with WE have to learn to finish games.  We have to take it out of the officials hands.  We have to take control.  We have to put the final nail in the coffin.  Does he actually do what he said?  No.

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6 hours ago, hoorta said:

We're short by inches on that play. Sure the percentages say you punt, but maybe not if your defense is a sieve, and your special teams suck. No guts no glory. Give the ball to Hyde, or qb sneak. If you can't make a foot, you don't deserve to win anyway.

I'm with Jiggins on this one, we were ready to open the victory port, and I told Bob to hold off. Just had the feeling we weren't stopping the Raiders on that drive.

They were discussing the odds of converting on a 4th & inches on the radio several times today.

Dustin Fox, had a compilation of stats from the last 15 years on 4th & 1 and the success rate was 82% (QB sneak).

Fourth and inches carried nearly 95% success rate on a QB sneak.

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20 hours ago, Mark O said:

The quick whistles offset each other since they were really quick on the one on the Lynch run and then the fumble that we would've recovered.   The truly bad call is the overturn of the first down that basically cost us the game.    However, the defense still had an 8 point lead, less than 2 minutes and let them cruise down for the TD and the 2 point.

That quick whistle cost us the ball. I know where you coming from though.  It's all coaching. You either play to win or you play to not.....

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27 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

That quick whistle cost us the ball. I know where you coming from though.  It's all coaching. You either play to win or you play to not.....

The quick whistle while we were on defense probably saved us from a Raiders touchdown. 

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1 hour ago, Orion said:

We're shameless Browns fans.

We lost the game because Hue allowed the Raiders to take control of the game at the end.

The refs gave us 4th and inches.  All we had to do was QB sneak for a couple of inches.  What are the odds for 4th and inches QB sneaks?  Gotta be over 90%.  What were the odds that we were gonna stop the Raiders after punt?  When we lost the cornerback we couldn't stop them.  And what are you telling your offensive line by foregoing the QB sneak to win the game?  Answer: I don't have faith in your ability to gain 6 inches.  

 Even if he was afraid of Baker doing the sneak....put in Tyrod and tell him to smash that concussed head of his over the 1st down stripe.  

And today, Hue comes out with WE have to learn to finish games.  We have to take it out of the officials hands.  We have to take control.  We have to put the final nail in the coffin.  Does he actually do what he said?  No.

Hue showed his lack of balls. I bet Todd wanted to go for it. That's no confidence right there.

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36 minutes ago, Mark O said:

The quick whistle while we were on defense probably saved us from a Raiders touchdown. 

Really? It looked like the browns stopped when they heard the whistle. So I think that play was a bit exaggerated. 

Early whistle, regardless.

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4 hours ago, Mark O said:

The refs quick whistle helped us early in the game.  Don't forget that.   The problem with the 3rd down running play is that it was originally called a first down and then overturned and certainly didn't seem like there was evidence to overturn the call on the field.  

I also think going for it on your own 20 with 1:50 left is a silly call that would've had 95% of you around here saying Hue should be fired for making that decision if it doesn't work.   What's the point of having a defense if you can't trust them to hold an 8 point lead?

Its obvious that no matter what is said or evidence shown that a lot of people aren't going to change their view. It's all part of fandom I suppose. I even recall someone say it doesnt matter you aren't going to convince me it wasnt completely fixed. I have even seen the talk of the Vegas line. Of course the fact that a majority of lines are close like that has no bearing on it being fixed. 

I guess it is just easier to think a game was fixed, that the entire league has something against the Browns (even though they were the worst team last year, and makes absolutely no sense) than to just say that the team made too many mistakes.

Complaining about the fumble I see. Complaining about the spot and subsequent overturn, I get it. But to take it further to every penalty and then cheating, WAY TOO FAR IMO

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Oh yeah that's good. :lol:

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Who is that is actually making the decision on replays?  I have always thought the referee down on the field was looking at it and making a judgement - but now I hear this talk about how the it is the central officiating office in NYC that is actually reviewing the challenged plays and rendering decisions.  

Which is it?

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3 hours ago, Orion said:

We're shameless Browns fans.

We lost the game because Hue allowed the Raiders to take control of the game at the end.

The refs gave us 4th and inches.  All we had to do was QB sneak for a couple of inches.  What are the odds for 4th and inches QB sneaks?  Gotta be over 90%.  What were the odds that we were gonna stop the Raiders after punt?  When we lost the cornerback we couldn't stop them.  And what are you telling your offensive line by foregoing the QB sneak to win the game?  Answer: I don't have faith in your ability to gain 6 inches.  

Even if he was afraid of Baker doing the sneak....put in Tyrod and tell him to smash that concussed head of his over the 1st down stripe.  

And today, Hue comes out with WE have to learn to finish games.  We have to take it out of the officials hands.  We have to take control.  We have to put the final nail in the coffin.  Does he actually do what he said?  No.

I sure hope you are joking about Tyrod. Put someone in to possibly get hurt more.

As for going for it on 4th, even if it is 90%, what about that 10%. Then you give them an even shorter field. You have the LEAD, you rely on your defense to stop them with a long field and then a 2 pt conversation. It didn't work out. 

And you just got the call that people are talking about proof of a fix, and now you expect the officials to get an exact spot on a sneak with 22 people all in the same area. Yea, make total sense. If the Browns go for it there and dont get it, even more people are calling for his job because he didnt punt it.

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4 hours ago, Orion said:

We're shameless Browns fans.

We lost the game because Hue allowed the Raiders to take control of the game at the end.

The refs gave us 4th and inches.  All we had to do was QB sneak for a couple of inches.  What are the odds for 4th and inches QB sneaks?  Gotta be over 90%.  What were the odds that we were gonna stop the Raiders after punt?  When we lost the cornerback we couldn't stop them.  And what are you telling your offensive line by foregoing the QB sneak to win the game?  Answer: I don't have faith in your ability to gain 6 inches.  

Even if he was afraid of Baker doing the sneak....put in Tyrod and tell him to smash that concussed head of his over the 1st down stripe.  

And today, Hue comes out with WE have to learn to finish games.  We have to take it out of the officials hands.  We have to take control.  We have to put the final nail in the coffin.  Does he actually do what he said?  No.

Well 4th and short, some thoughts......  http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/62665328

Screenshot_2018-10-01-21-56-52.png

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28 minutes ago, onkyoreceiver said:

Who is that is actually making the decision on replays?  I have always thought the referee down on the field was looking at it and making a judgement - but now I hear this talk about how the it is the central officiating office in NYC that is actually reviewing the challenged plays and rendering decisions.  

Which is it?

It's the central league office in NYC that makes the decision.  They just tell the referee on the field of their decision so he can relate it to the crowd and what they're looking at on the replays. 

Just like the way baseball does it.

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They deserved to lose.  Going three and out how many times in a row to end the game?  

And special teams is an absolute joke.  

 

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4 hours ago, Orion said:

 

Even if he was afraid of Baker doing the sneak....put in Tyrod and tell him to smash that concussed head of his over the 1st down stripe.  

 

FYI- Tyrod was inactive for the game yesterday, Stanton was the backup.

To the original post, I do think the Browns have been given a raw deal many many times. Most notably, when they put us in the same division as the ratbirds when we got our team back.

We all watch a lot of football, and I don't see these stupid-butt rulings happen to any other team. It's truly strange when you think about it....Dwayne Rudd's helmet, Bottlegate, getting called for defensive PI on a Hail Mary in Detroit, yesterday's strip sack and then the erroneous measurement...that's just a few I recall. I know there's more.

Only positive I have is this team can definitely hang with most any team now. They're not too far away. They can't, and didn't  fix everything in one off-season, but damn, the glass is half full now. 

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Under two minutes they look at everything supposedly.

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8 hours ago, jwhunter said:

To make a short story shorter, losers lose and winners win.  This may be an obvious philosophy but when Cleveland starts to win and win consistently, they will start getting the breaks like referees tacking on another half yard when they place the ball after a play or they may not even flag an offensive hold.  The NFL will only give breaks to those that are contenders.  Right now Cleveland should be, in my opinion, 4-0 but they are not.  Cleveland suffers from the stain of being a loser and until they get a string of victories I expect that stain to still be on them for the remainder of the season.  I'm the consummate Cleveland fan, wait till next season.     

Someone knows how to make an entrance...

Welcome to the Boards...

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1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

As for going for it on 4th, even if it is 90%, what about that 10%.

Let me ask you this:  If the rolls were reversed.  The Raiders had the ball with the lead....4th and a couple of inches.....and if they QB sneak for the first down the Browns lose the game.  As a Browns coach you would be praying to GOD that they DON'T run the QB sneak and that they punt.   RIGHT???  I mean the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the QB sneak being successful.

So why on earth would you do what the other team WANTS you to do?

Hue did NOT play to Win The Game.  Hue played Not To Lose.  I hate playing that way!

Now, to be fair, if you're playing a team that you've stifled their offense all day long, PERHAPS you might punt it to them.  But the Raiders put up 565 yards of offense on us.  And sure as $#!+  THEY'D be using all 4 downs if they got to 4th down at all.

We needed 3 or 4 inches to WIN the game.  And even if we DIDN'T make it, the Raiders COULDN'T beat us with their possession.  They could only tie....and we might still have had some time on the clock.

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I just have this to say though. Hue Jackson has no cajones. When they didn't get the spot you get back out there and get the fu¢king 1st down.

 

No, punting was not the right call, clearly. You get the 1st. 

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1 hour ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Hindsight is 20/20

It's not hindsight when I'm sitting there stating, "QB sneak it!  QB sneak it!"  -  Just ask Mrs. Wife.

.....and Jon Gruden has DATA that Hindsight is 50/50.    

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6 hours ago, Momszer said:

Perhaps not on the third and one tall but on that fumble by car that is what they should be apologizing forPerhaps not on the third and one tall but on that fumble by car that is what they should be apologizing for

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50 minutes ago, Orion said:

Let me ask you this:  If the rolls were reversed.  The Raiders had the ball with the lead....4th and a couple of inches.....and if they QB sneak for the first down the Browns lose the game.  As a Browns coach you would be praying to GOD that they DON'T run the QB sneak and that they punt.   RIGHT???  I mean the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the QB sneak being successful.

So why on earth would you do what the other team WANTS you to do?

Hue did NOT play to Win The Game.  Hue played Not To Lose.  I hate playing that way!

Now, to be fair, if you're playing a team that you've stifled their offense all day long, PERHAPS you might punt it to them.  But the Raiders put up 565 yards of offense on us.  And sure as $#!+  THEY'D be using all 4 downs if they got to 4th down at all.

We needed 3 or 4 inches to WIN the game.  And even if we DIDN'T make it, the Raiders COULDN'T beat us with their possession.  They could only tie....and we might still have had some time on the clock.

Hue does not play to win and ergo he loses

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9 hours ago, jwhunter said:

To make a short story shorter, losers lose and winners win.  This may be an obvious philosophy but when Cleveland starts to win and win consistently, they will start getting the breaks like referees tacking on another half yard when they place the ball after a play or they may not even flag an offensive hold.  The NFL will only give breaks to those that are contenders.  Right now Cleveland should be, in my opinion, 4-0 but they are not.  Cleveland suffers from the stain of being a loser and until they get a string of victories I expect that stain to still be on them for the remainder of the season.  I'm the consummate Cleveland fan, wait till next season.     

This is what I've said all year. Right now, we're losers. Everyone knew we were losing that game. The feeling was definitely there. So if we feel it, the players feel it. Same thing with New Orleans. I was there, I felt it. The players felt it. I know our former kicker certainly felt it. That same feeling was in the air against Oakland. It's funny, when Baker came in against the Jets, it felt like we'd win. Even when down 17-14. It felt like we'd pull it out. I don't expect to have that feeling again. Only chance we have is against Tampa Bay. Every other game is likely a loss unless we get every possible break that exists. 

On the plus side, I think Baker will be very good. He's just going to have some atrocious growing pains, which are inevitable. Unfortunately, we aren't good enough to overcome them for victories. Oh, and it doesn't help that David "The Chief Queef" Njoku can't catch, and neither can anyone else. That hurts.

We aren't there yet, I think we all knew that going in. We don't know how to win, which is the way it's been for years. Even last year, the worst season ever, we had what...3 games we should have won? Same with the year before. When the game comes down to making a play, we refuse to be the team making it. Could that change? Sure. But not this year. The tie and two losses have crushed whatever small amount of confidence we had. Landry looked defeated. Garrett looked defeated. They're starting to understand what it means to be a Cleveland Brown. Well, a Cleveland Brown this year anyway, because as we ALL know.... 

There's always next year. 

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1 hour ago, SD_Tom said:

They deserved to lose.  Going three and out how many times in a row to end the game?  

And special teams is an absolute joke.  

 

Bullshi+ - they deserved to win. They put up 42 points on that team and sealed the deal by picking up a first down with under 2 minutes, with Gruden out of TOs. Game Over. The Browns won the game, period. The record can say what it wants. We beat Pittsburgh too. The Browns are 3-1, quit bitching.

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Roughing the passer on Myles Garrett. 

Fumble by Derek Carr, Browns "reversed" first down. 

What the Shmuck ever... The Browns are 3-1. I won't see it any other way. 

NFL QUIT Shmucking CLEVELAND OVER YOU PUSSY BITCHES.

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