NFL Phucks Cleveland Twice in 4 Weeks

[Tour2ma]

Just now, D Bone said:

Or where the line to gain is since the yellow line is not official and there are no official lines anywhere close in the shot to use as a landmark.... and not to mention the angle of the camera. 

Any greasy public defender on Law and Order SVU would get this thrown out long before indictment. 

The measurement showed that if anything the left edge of the line was less than 10 yards...

So there's that.

[Gunz41]

23 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Completely agree on the Carr fumble. "In the grasp", a call you rarely hear made anymore, is accompanied by a whistle. There was no whistle. As for "forward progress"... Carr was still being pushed forward by an OL... so that dog don't hunt.

What you say about the yellow line is true, but in this case its accuracy was verified by the measurement that took place. If anything, the line was just inside of the stick.

I think you missed my point, from the video I saw, I would say he is probably short because of his elbow. It is certainly not something from what I saw to think that the game was fixed

[Tacosman]

 

it's important to remember that something can be very very close and still very clear on replay, and likewise something can be likely not close at all and not certain.

It's very close, but Im pretty sure he is just short.  What's unusual about this is the left edge of the line is sometimes even a 1-2 inches past ten yards.  In this case it appears to be the other way.

I have mixed feelings about the call.  

[Tour2ma]

57 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

well, krystal ball, if they had known they'd score that much, they would have kicked the extra points I suppose.

... and we would have lost in regulation... except of course they would not have gone for two later on.

Seriously tho, there was nothing about the score, the time remaining or anything that said, "Go for 2 here," when we first did.

48 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/9/30/17921052/marshawn-lynch-beast-mode-mad-refs-whistle-raiders-browns

I get it - but his forward progress was stopped and was going to get clobbered again while in the grasp of another defensive player.

But that's pretty much the way every Lynch run ends. He plays like it's still the early days when you had to hold the ball carrier down for a couple beats before he was ruled down.

[hoorta]

23 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I heard him.

I disagree.

The photo is clear to me.

The replay is even clearer.

Sure, it's one play- but let's not forget our stalwart defense suddenly gave up 45 points. Some of that was on Baker, but how about letting the Raiders waltz down the field with less than two minutes left, and convert a two point conversion on top of it to tie the game. I always say-  yet another new and exciting way to lose a game- that by all rights we should have won- a couple different ways. 

[BvilleBrown]

From Yahoo Sports:

“Replay change was a surprise

The overturned call was a stunner. Spots are rarely changed by replay in the NFL, and video appeared to confirm that Hyde did, indeed, have the first down. But the call was made, and.........”. Refs just refused to change a Stooler challenge on a spot for Ravens.   Yes The Browns had 2 opponents today.   

[MDDawg]

8 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

 

it's important to remember that something can be very very close and still very clear on replay, and likewise something can be likely not close at all and not certain.

It's very close, but Im pretty sure he is just short.  What's unusual about this is the left edge of the line is sometimes even a 1-2 inches past ten yards.  In this case it appears to be the other way.

I have mixed feelings about the call.  

The call on the field was a first down, there wasn't irrefutable evidence to overturn it. The ball was already ahead of the first down marker before his elbow landed, it was a blown call plus when did they start automatically reviewing these without a challenge anyway? On another note, the NFL could easily fix it with RFID technology in the ball with sensors in the first down markers like soccer fixed goal scoring.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Let’s not blame the coach for this. The injury to Mitchell hurt, but the DEFENSE was nonexistent when it was needed the most today.

and we should’ve been WAYYYY more conservative up 14 with the run game which was working. What did we do? Throw on first down to get strip sacked to send things spinning downwards.

i think the defensive and offensive playcalling has been VERY questionable. Too much trickery. Not enough running the damn ball.

Why the hell wasnt chubb getting more carries?! 

[beare]

here is some reaction to the SCREW JOB https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/Browns-lose-NFL-officiating-error-122740868/#122740868_6

[D Bone]

I'll just say this regarding the overturn. 

Let's hypothetically say that the ref would've spotted the ball 4" short of where they eventually "officially" moved it to, would they have then looked at the play and moved the ball those 4" forward and remeasured? There's not a bone in my body that thinks that would've happened, and if they did, then it would've ended with "The ruling on the field stands"..... JUST LIKE WHAT JUST HAPPENED IN PITTSBURGH!!!!

At then end of the day, there were a lot of plays that could've clinched it, and one that comes to my mind is if Collins wouldn't have turned into a giant pussy in OT and made the damn interception. 

 

 

[jiggins7919]

There's no way to tell. If anything, it looks like the original spot was absolutely perfect. Which means it's a first down. Regardless, you can't CHANGE the spot. Which is why I can't think of another time, and also why the head honcho ref himself said the same thing. 

We lost. We basically always lose. Just another unique way to do so. 

[Zombo]

 

[browns52]

4 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Sure, it's one play- but let's not forget our stalwart defense suddenly gave up 45 points. Some of that was on Baker, but how about letting the Raiders waltz down the field with less than two minutes left, and convert a two point conversion on top of it to tie the game. I always say-  yet another new and exciting way to lose a game- that by all rights we should have won- a couple different ways. 

i agree 100 percent...most of the time the secondary looked confused......they cannot tackle worth a Sheet....and they are mismatched alot because of their size...take the jordy nelson 2 pt conversion...our db was there, but he could not finish the play because of his size and ability...same with the lb's....they need someone to help  garret...he can't do it by himself....but even though we sucked on defense...the Shmucking refs lost this game...its a crying Shmucking shame....

[browns52]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

I'm going to break my "24 Hour Post" rule again, but I'll try and keep it somewhat neutral. 

I have never, and I mean NEVER seen a spot like that changed. Not only that, but the original spot was atrocious, and the ref moved it back from his original line. I didn't even think it was CLOSE. I celebrated. I high-fived my family. I screamed "FINALLY!" but I should've known. Heck, I DID know we were going to lose. The writing was all over the wall. It was the smallest 14 point lead in league history. The ref signaled first down by the smallest of margins, I actually let myself celebrate. I hugged my wife and screamed in happiness, so much that my cranky dog came staggering out of her kennel and joined in the fun. Deep down, I knew better. 

The refs weren't going to let us win the game. Obviously we know that, we're used to it. Maybe not used to it, but we're getting there. It's how it is, guys. I was wrong about the score, but was right about the margin of loss. The close ones hurt the most. You want the really bad news? This was our last/best chance to actually have a winning record. Now, there's no telling how many years we'll wait. It certainly won't be this season. Good news? Baker is the real deal. He'll level out those mistakes, and he'll be just fine. We found our guy. Unfortunately, he learned first hand what it means to be a Cleveland Brown. He now understands why so many rookies don't want to come here. It's a career death knell. 

You know what really hurts? Every one of us knew the Raiders were going to score a touchdown and get the conversion. None of us had faith in our defense, and it's obvious why. We won last week because we played a rookie. We don't get to play rookies every week, unfortunately. 

This loss will crush our team. It will completely demoralize us, and send us on a losing spiral we haven't seen since....well...I guess last year. Look at our schedule. See some wins? Me either. Baker made mistakes that cost us the game, and the refs made sure they counted. He's a rookie, it'll happen every week. But you know what? I'm cool with it. I'm cool with it because Baker will be very good, I really believe that. But right now? Right now we lose. We lose in awful fashion. We lose when we think we have the game won. We lose when all we need is one inch, we get the inch, but the NFL takes it away. We lose because...well...we just do. 

And it's only getting started. I know this one hurts, it really does. But we're starting a rookie QB, and there will be more downs than ups. There's always a steep learning curve. This won't the first time, and we'll have many more losses just as bad as this one. What I do know is that Baker will also have a magical game here and there, even as a rookie. He'll be the one winning at the last second. When will that happen? Who knows. But it will happen eventually, and when Baker finally "gets it" (and he will, I feel it)....good times will come to the Browns. 

 

i think you  are right....however, thats no excuse for 2 Shmucking horrible calls by the refs....bottom line is the refs won this game for chucky and the raiders despite bakers mistakes and our horrible defense...bottom line is we won this game and those refs should be Shmucking suspended just like they suspend players....crhying shame

[browns52]

8 minutes ago, D Bone said:

I'll just say this regarding the overturn. 

Let's hypothetically say that the ref would've spotted the ball 4" short of where they eventually "officially" moved it to, would they have then looked at the play and moved the ball those 4" forward and remeasured? There's not a bone in my body that thinks that would've happened, and if they did, then it would've ended with "The ruling on the field stands"..... JUST LIKE WHAT JUST HAPPENED IN PITTSBURGH!!!!

At then end of the day, there were a lot of plays that could've clinched it, and one that comes to my mind is if Collins wouldn't have turned into a giant pussy in OT and made the damn interception. 

 

 

as i said before, we need better llb's....

[Tour2ma]

47 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

I think you missed my point, from the video I saw, I would say he is probably short because of his elbow. It is certainly not something from what I saw to think that the game was fixed

Actually I got you, Gunz... My post just happened to follow yours. It was not a reply to your post.

35 minutes ago, BvilleBrown said:

From Yahoo Sports:

“Replay change was a surprise

The overturned call was a stunner. Spots are rarely changed by replay in the NFL, and video appeared to confirm that Hyde did, indeed, have the first down. But the call was made, and.........”. Refs just refused to change a Stooler challenge on a spot for Ravens.   Yes The Browns had 2 opponents today.   

The reason I was initially "stunned" is that every supplemental replay angle they showed made it look like Hyde advanced the ball far enough.

Then I watched the original broadcast of the play as it happened. By far it had the best angle to look at the play. And in freeze frame, slo-mo I saw it was short.

30 minutes ago, D Bone said:

I'll just say this regarding the overturn. 

Let's hypothetically say that the ref would've spotted the ball 4" short of where they eventually "officially" moved it to, would they have then looked at the play and moved the ball those 4" forward and remeasured?

Yes... they would. I know because they have done so this year.

[jiggins7919]

5 minutes ago, browns52 said:

i think you  are right....however, thats no excuse for 2 Shmucking horrible calls by the refs....bottom line is the refs won this game for chucky and the raiders despite bakers mistakes and our horrible defense...bottom line is we won this game and those refs should be Shmucking suspended just like they suspend players....crhying shame

Yeah, we did win. I've literally never seen, in my entire life, a spot changed like that. I've never seen it, I can't remember one time when a spot was changed that basically meant the game without conclusive evidence. We hear all the time that the call on the field will stay unless there's irrefutable evidence. The spot was made, a measurement done, and the game was over. But the refs had to call into headquarters and get instructions. They were told to make the game more interesting because ratings are down. I have no doubt in my mind that's what happened. I suspect one day a referee will sell his story to a paper and we'll know for sure. I won't be shocked when it comes out. 

This game was our season. Truthfully, nobody expected us to "go to the playoffs" or anything, but this is the type of loss that cascades into more. Hue Jackson will be fired, we'll have to draft new personnel to fit a new system, we'll be told to have patience, and round and round we go. 

Welcome to Cleveland, Baker. It's hard to feel sorry for a guy who is athletically gifted, has millions of dollars, plays football, and appears to have it all, but I do feel bad for him in a way. I like the guy, and I feel bad he had to come to us. This is only the beginning, Baker. There are so many more inexplicable losses to come, in ways you can't possibly imagine. 

 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

4 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

 

This game was our season. Truthfully, nobody expected us to "go to the playoffs" or anything, but this is the type of loss that cascades into more. Hue Jackson will be fired, we'll have to draft new personnel to fit a new system, we'll be told to have patience, and round and round we go.

Welcome to Cleveland, Baker. It's hard to feel sorry for a guy who is athletically gifted, has millions of dollars, plays football, and appears to have it all, but I do feel bad for him in a way. I like the guy, and I feel bad he had to come to us. This is only the beginning, Baker. There are so many more inexplicable losses to come, in ways you can't possibly imagine. 

 

Cmon man. The current owner isn’t gonna fire Hue like that, some people argue the Browns should be 4-0.

we’re still the youngest team in the league, and the future is still bright.

 

and we got ROBBED today. No way around it.

[bjh2130]

14 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Don't know what to tell ya, D... It's plain as day to me.

His chin is short of the line. The back half of his helmet is over the line.

 

Tour I think he may have been down before hand but one thing to remember is that they don't have that yellow line in the official replays. that's just something that is for TV audiences. So while I have the yellow line I think that he's down but the object to the replay is to know that he is down. Them not having the yellow line makes it very hard to believe that they knew he was down short of the line to gain.

[Gunz41]

4 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

Tour I think he may have been down before hand but one thing to remember is that they don't have that yellow line in the official replace that's just something that is for TV audiences. So while I have the yellow line I think that he's down but the object to the replay is to know that he is down. Them not having the yellow line makes it very hard to believe that they knew he was down short of the line to gain.

From my understanding, the replay officials in deed do have that yellow line, as they have every angle and shot from the TV broadcast. So they have the line, yet they know it isnt the official line.

 

[Tour2ma]

6 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

Tour I think he may have been down before hand but one thing to remember is that they don't have that yellow line in the official replace that's just something that is for TV audiences.

No offense... but are you sure about that?

[jiggins7919]

3 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Cmon man. The current owner isn’t gonna fire Hue like that, some people argue the Browns should be 4-0.

we’re still the youngest team in the league, and the future is still bright.

 

and we got ROBBED today. No way around it.

I hope you are right. I really do. But if this train completely derails like I expect, the outside pressure might be too great to keep a coach who has literally won two games in 2.25 seasons. Not only that, but virtually every close game is a loss. We only beat the Chargers because their kicker sucks, and we beat the Jets because they're completely miserable. Think about that for a few. It boggles the mind. Now look at our schedule and tell me just who in the world we're going to beat? I hope you are right. I can't stomach another coaching change, but I fear that Dorsey wants his own guy. 

[Tour2ma]

1 minute ago, Gunz41 said:

From my understanding, the replay officials in deed do have that yellow line, as they have every angle and shot from the TV broadcast. So they have the line, yet they know it isnt the official line.

Makes sense because they'd have to have a different network feed since the reviews are centralized in NYC.

[D Bone]

I guess for me, had I have seen a spot challenge that close be overturned before.... especially with the game on the line, then I wouldn't be so damn salty. 

Again, based on people already contacting me about the call as well as the media's reaction, this was as far from a "Clear and obvious mistake" to most people as it gets. To be honest, Tour is the only one that I have personally seen that agrees with the call...... that's like 1-18 people in my world. Hardly "clear and obvious".

Oh well, just another game that Hue found a way to lose as the head coach of the Cleveland Browns, but look at the bright side, he has the Ravens next week. 

[Tour2ma]

Just now, D Bone said:

Again, based on people already contacting me about the call as well as the media's reaction, this was as far from a "Clear and obvious mistake" to most people as it gets. To be honest, Tour is the only one that I have personally seen that agrees with the call...... that's like 1-18 people in my world. Hardly "clear and obvious"......

At least two more posters here agree with me...

 

That's at two more than I'm used to having share my takes...

 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

12 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I hope you are right. I really do. But if this train completely derails like I expect, the outside pressure might be too great to keep a coach who has literally won two games in 2.25 seasons. Not only that, but virtually every close game is a loss. We only beat the Chargers because their kicker sucks, and we beat the Jets because they're completely miserable. Think about that for a few. It boggles the mind. Now look at our schedule and tell me just who in the world we're going to beat? I hope you are right. I can't stomach another coaching change, but I fear that Dorsey wants his own guy. 

I know Hue has made some questionable calls, like at the dolphins(I was there) game from year 1, where after the defense strip sacked Tannehill, the Offense, Cody Kessler, came out and took a knee to drain the clock in case we missed the field goal, which was newly signed Cody Parkey at the time.(it was a tie game).. so that made it about a 47 yarder, instead of trying to move forward and make it an easier kick for the young kicker. Parkey missed, Dolphins win in OT. 

And the Redskins game we were in control in the red zone and he gave the ball to the Fullback who fumbled. Probably just trying to get the FB some love which was dumb.

I just don’t know if other coaches would have done better in the same circumstances. 

Defense is the real problem right now, Oakland was running wide open all game. 

the turnovers did not help. 

[bjh2130]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

No offense... but are you sure about that?

Yes i am positive unless it's changed in the past two years. How many times do you hear announcer saying well that yellow line isn't official. And since it isn't official they can't be using it to determine whether they made the line to gain or not. Also all they talked about after the spot game 2 years ago between Ohio State and Michigan was the spot in the replay and how officials aren't allowed to use the yellow line because it is not an official mark.

[jiggins7919]

5 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I know Hue has made some questionable calls, like at the dolphins(I was there) game from year 1, where after the defense strip sacked Tannehill, the Offense, Cody Kessler, came out and took a knee to drain the clock in case we missed the field goal, which was newly signed Cody Parker at the time.(it was a tie game).. so that made it about a 47 yarder, instead of trying to move forward and make it an easier kick for the young kicker. Parker missed, Dolphins win in OT. 

And the Redskins game we were in control in the red zone and he gave the ball to the Fullback who fumbled. Probably just trying to get the FB some love which was dumb.

I just don’t know if other coaches would have done better in the same circumstances. 

Defense is the real problem right now, Oakland was running wide open all game. 

the turnovers did not help. 

I actually completely agree. I just worry that after losing basically EVERY SINGLE close game, some in gut-wrenching fashion, that a change will be made just for the sake of MAKING a change. I hope I'm wrong. 

The bigger issue is the momentum effect. We've seen this EXACT scenario so many times. We have a game wrapped up, we figure out how to lose in horrible fashion, the football community points their collective fingers at us and laughs hysterically, meanwhile the "Same Old Browns" narrative continues and it just feeds on itself. It becomes a living thing. Browns fans know their team will blow it. Browns PLAYERS know they will blow it. And the opposition KNOWS they will win. We expect to lose. It's difficult to blame us. 

That was our best chance to win the rest of the year. Watch, our injuries will start popping up, and we'll be down major players each week, just like every team. I literally have no idea who we can beat now, and we won't be favored to win the rest of the season. 

[jiggins7919]

5 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

Yes i am positive unless it's changed in the past two years. How many times do you hear announcer saying withoutwell that yellow line isn'tyellow line isn't official. And since it is it official they can't be using it to determine whether they made the line to gain or not. Also all they talked about after the spot game 2 years ago between Ohio State and Michigan was the spot in the replay and how officials aren't allowed to use the yellow line because it is not an official mark.

I think the point is that the officials marked it, then went to the replay in order to move it back an inch or two when there was no definitive evidence either way. Maybe it was a first down, maybe it wasn't. Regardless, there was no evidence to alter the spot as indicated by the former professional who used to be in CHARGE of the review process. Additionally, it's also the reason that nobody can think of another example of this happening in the NFL. I know I can't. 

[bjh2130]

16 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I think the point is that the officials marked it, then went to the replay in order to move it back an inch or two when there was no definitive evidence either way. Maybe it was a first down, maybe it wasn't. Regardless, there was no evidence to alter the spot as indicated by the former professional who used to be in CHARGE of the review process. Additionally, it's also the reason that nobody can think of another example of this happening in the NFL. I know I can't. 

No my point is I was just responding to tour when I told him that the officials don't have the yellow line to go off of in the replay so that should have made it even harder to overturn the call