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Tour2ma

If Baker is really this good...

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... then I can't wait to see Josh Rosen, who topped my QB Board. :)

And with Sam Bradford playing at a TT level (not to mention his injury history), it doesn't look like I'll have to wait long.

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Well Rosen may very well be a good QB when the dust settles, but he will have quite a mountain to climb to make the Browns regret not taking him as he suggested.

Add in the fact that he will not provide the same 'energy' when he gets his shot.  I'm sold the Browns made the right decision, but time will tell.

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2 hours ago, htownbrown said:

Can't wait to see The Herd today though.

Cowturd did his best to try and downplay Bakers game.. but I don't think anyone is buying the $hit he spews...

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5 hours ago, htownbrown said:

Well Rosen may very well be a good QB when the dust settles, but he will have quite a mountain to climb to make the Browns regret not taking him as he suggested.

Add in the fact that he will not provide the same 'energy' when he gets his shot.  I'm sold the Browns made the right decision, but time will tell.

I hear ya...

I'm already resigned to the gap I thought I saw between Rosen and Baker (#2 on my final board) being much smaller than I thought it would be.

And I'm even prepped for the possibility that Baker is the better prospect. Just want to see Rosen play.

As for the excitement level he brings. That will be a function of his play.

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I will gladly admit in the future that I was wrong when I was pissed off when I heard the words: 

"With the first pick of the 2018 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma".

Shmuck pride, I just want the Browns to win. Enough with talking draft by October. 

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im with tour, rosen was my top qb too. I wanna see if baker's maybe better....gladly concede i was wrong. It would be interesting to see how both adapted their games to the nfl. We saw darnold is who people pretty much thought he was. He's still a work tho....his game essentially picjed up in the nfl where it ended in college, with a pick 6. He's still a great prospect, we saw how ge can extend plays and make great throws..

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I wanted Rosen until I heard about his concussions.

I saw the Buckeyes play against Darnold and he actually looked shell shocked, he was beaten.

When I saw the Buckeyes play against Mayfield, he had that “it” factor and the Bucks never rattled him.

Thats when Baker went to the top of my QB wish list.

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18 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I wanted Rosen until I heard about his concussions.

I saw the Buckeyes play against Darnold and he actually looked shell shocked, he was beaten.

When I saw the Buckeyes play against Mayfield, he had that “it” factor and the Bucks never rattled him.

Thats when Baker went to the top of my QB wish list.

I flip-floped so much I can't even remember who I finally settled on. But I know it wasn't Baker so if he is the Messiah, I'll own up to it.

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I was 60/40 Baker over Darnold. to separate Bake, I spend a few hours watching Brees at Purdue. took some grief here about it at first, but the zip release and location where the ball needed to be thrown on receiver was the pick closer. Sure his feet may still look like Rivers at times, throwing off his back foot, but ball protection escaping pocket for both Darnold & Baker seem to still remain my biggest concern from both. Rosen's father being a doc with a son having concussion issues..No choice of him fitting frozen AFCN at crunch time imo. somewhere in this topic fest, I had Baker's 1st start, nowhere better than the black hole, only if Tyrod struggled with his familar Jets background. Man did Ty look lost in his mechanics on a dead arm    

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Well, I'm glad we are settled on where the experts at the Browns Board would have picked, like it means any Shmucking thing.

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I ended up Darnold One and Baker a fast-rising Two.

In the non-qb category I had Barkley One and DE Chubb two and no one else on my board.

John Dorsey did. Denzel Ward is the best rookie corner I have ever seen, makes  a young Joe Haden seem pedestrian.

Z

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4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I will gladly admit in the future that I was wrong when I was pissed off when I heard the words: 

"With the first pick of the 2018 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma".

Shmuck pride, I just want the Browns to win. Enough with talking draft by October. 

For the record, I had Mayfield and Darnold 1A and 1B on my draft board. Slightly favored Baker. Scared of Rosen's concussions, and Allen's scattershot cannon. Though I would have liked Chubb at #4, Dorsey drafting Ward instead looks like a brilliant move. 

Pissed? Last year I almost barfed, and thought about throwing something at the TV when I heard Jim Brown announce "with the 52nd pick of the 2017 NFL draft the Cleveland Browns select Deshone Kizer quarterback Notre Dame." 

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16 minutes ago, hoorta said:

For the record, I had Mayfield and Darnold 1A and 1B on my draft board. Slightly favored Baker. Scared of Rosen's concussions, and Allen's scattershot cannon. Though I would have liked Chubb at #4, Dorsey drafting Ward instead looks like a brilliant move. 

Pissed? Last year I almost barfed, and thought about throwing something at the TV when I heard Jim Brown announce "with the 52nd pick of the 2017 NFL draft the Cleveland Browns select Deshone Kizer quarterback Notre Dame." 

It was funny, early in the draft process I kind of liked Kizer as a "project" type of QB, but really cooled off on him. He had zero business leaving college when he did, and the Browns NEVER let a QB sit on the bench and learn slowly, and he was the poster child for someone who desperately needed the "Aaron Rodgers Treatment". By the time the draft rolled around, I thought Kizer and the Browns would be a horrible match. And then, of course... 😝

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The way the ball comes out, tight windows, anticipation on the routes, poise in the pocket and on the run, I'm sold. I think the our Browns might of finally found their man. He's humble, but with a big butt chip on his shoulder. I see Brees  V.2. but just a step above at this point. Could we be so LUCKY.

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I wanted a tall drink of water QB......the one with the best mechanics (the mechanics thing was my predraft motto).

Here's the biggest thing I noticed when Baker came in for Tyrod:  How fast he got the ball out.....and how fast the ball got from his hand to the receiver.  Later in the game Baker hit Landry RIGHT IN THE CHEST with a pass.  Right through his hands, off his chest and on the ground.  Landry stood there in disbelief....as if, "HolyShit!  That ball comes in FAST from Baker.  -  That pretty much told me that Landry hadn't worked all that much with Baker.  (which makes what Baker did with the 1's SO MUCH more impressive)

I told people, before the regular season started, that I'd seen a crapload of rookie Browns QB's take their first snaps in preseason and that Baker was Head & Shoulders the best looking rook QB I'd seen.  He LOOKED like a starter.  Now granted, he comes in with the backups and playing against backups....but so did all the others, Quinn, Weeden, Fry, Kessler, etc., etc.  Baker moved in the pocket so naturally.  He went through progressions.  He moved OUT of the pocket with his eyes upfield looking to throw and NOT to run...and only ran when all else failed.

But I did not want him to start.  I wanted Tyrod to run the team while Baker soaked in the NFL.  Plus, when Baker came in for Tyrod against Philly in preseason, and had to play with the 1's, I didn't think he looked so comfortable or smoothe.  But when he came in against the Jets....and SMOKED those first two passes in there to his receivers...well, my eyes opened as wide as could be.  And for the first time in A LONG TIME, when we went in at halftime down 14-3 I was thinking, "Not for nothin', but if this kid comes back out for the second half, we might be able to WIN this game".  I ACTUALLY HAD CONFIDENCE.  ( how bazaar is THAT )

I'm not a guy that gets overly optimistic.  I've learned that way too many times optimistic hopes come crashing back down to a sad reality.  But PHUCK THAT!  For the next ten days I'm gonna optimistically say that we have our QB....and that he's a GOOD one....perhaps a REAL good one.  

I know Baker is gonna make rookie mistakes this year.  He'll probably come back to earth and have some average or below average games.  But for a rookie QB to come into the third game of the season, stone cold, with no practice with the starters, on National TV, down 14-0 with only a little time left in the half, and to absolutely IGNITE an offense and a depressed stadium crowd....and proceed  to guide the team back from the dead and all the way to victory.... - Well phuck me!  I'm as impressed as I can be!

Sorry to be long winded.  I'll go to bed now.......and fall asleep for the 2nd night in a row with a Browns Smile.  

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1 hour ago, blitzz2 said:

He's humble, but with a big butt chip on his shoulder.

Agree... and that's not a combo you'd think would go hand in hand.

4 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Well, I'm glad we are settled on where the experts at the Browns Board would have picked, like it means any Shmucking thing.

Some of us like to analyze and evaluate our analyses...

 

... others like to fling their own feces at the wall and see if anything sticks.

Don't forget to wash your hands.

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I have always been lousy at QB choices (anybody want a Manziel jersey?) but this year I was determined to be more objective. Baker was my ONLY choice as I chose to ignore his height (I've grown to hate determining success by "measurables") & focus on all other attributes such as accuracy, vision, intelligence, elusiveness, leadership, durability, attitude/determination, being a WINNER, & PASSION. I did a dance at my draft party when Baker's name was called.

He won't win every game & there may be stumbling blocks, but one very important thing I saw at "The Game" was how his on field presence raised Fan & Teammate excitement, confidence, &  performance level. I believe these things will continue...IMHO that's the "IT" factor & Baker has it.

With all that being stated, NO player has ever qualified for the HOF in a game or season. While the performance in his 1st HALF NFL game was outstanding, that doesn't ensure future performance. Only time will determine the ultimate success or failure of any & all of these young QBs, but I like our chances with Baker.

Mike

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8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Agree... and that's not a combo you'd think would go hand in hand.

Some of us like to analyze and evaluate our analyses...

 

... others like to fling their own feces at the wall and see if anything sticks.

Don't forget to wash your hands.

Don't get mad.

 

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23 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

... then I can't wait to see Josh Rosen, who topped my QB Board. :)

And with Sam Bradford playing at a TT level (not to mention his injury history), it doesn't look like I'll have to wait long.

Have to put him in now. I saw Sam and it wasn't pretty. 

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I'm very curious to see the practice attitude with Baker at the helm. We've all now heard about Baker entering the game with next to zero practice reps, so how does that change with Baker receiving EVERY rep? Do receivers subconsciously run harder routes because they know they're more likely to get the ball? Are the offensive linemen geared up because they know the ball is coming out quicker? Joe Thomas thinks so. And you saw how the running game became more lively with Baker in there. 

In short, a new QB can be so much more than just a different guy throwing the ball. Think about our defense with Baker in the game. How much more REST did they get? Tyrod Taylor was basically 3 plays and punt, right? We have 11 turnovers on the season, and I think we've scored just TEN POINTS off them. 7 coming from a drive starting on the 1 yard line. Yeesh. No matter what anybody says, that kind of futility HAS to wear at a defense's state of mind, in addition to their physical taxation. 

This isn't to say that Baker won't have three and outs. Of course he will. Do I firmly believe he'll have fewer than Tyrod? Absolutely. And more first downs have other implications, too. Flipping the field is huge. Even if we don't score, getting 2 or 3 first downs could mean pinning the opposition way back in their territory with Myles Garrett sniffing around. 

What are my concerns? I'm tired of the drops. We aren't good enough to overcome that many drops consistently. And they were BAD ones too. We still need another WR, and Streeter isn't going to cut the stadium mustard. I'm extremely hesitant to bring in Dez Bryant, although he's kind of what we need from a purely athletic standpoint. Who else is available? I'm also worried about Baker staying healthy, but I suppose every fan has that concern. 

I'm almost over losing Gordon, so bare with me. I think I WAS over it, but having Baker enter the fray conjured up all these visions of Josh catching perfectly thrown balls across the middle. In stride. With green in front of him. Not only that, but can you think of a QB's better friend than a stud WR who can score from anywhere? Again, I'm almost there, just bare with me.

So who can semi-replace Gordon? Obviously it's Callaway, but he's fraught with risk as well. He's one positive pot test away from being gone, and I HATE that. Maybe not a league full suspension, but I think Dorsey would cut him. Regardless, Callaway is with us now, and he's pretty darn good. However, he's far from perfect as we'd expect. He needs to run harder on his routes, go up and FIGHT for the underthrown balls, catch the easy ones, and stay healthy. I think all of us would LOVE to have seen Baker attempt those two deep tosses to Callaway, the ones that were woefully underthrown. You maybe get one chance a game at a long touchdown. We had two, and missed both. I tell you what, Callaway caught a 3rd down slant that was frustrating because it was short of the first down, but boy....it was a shoelace away from being a TOUCHDOWN. If you see the play, you'll notice the other defenders have their backs turned, and Baker hit Callaway in stride, full speed. He would've been GONE, boys. Similar to the slant he housed in preseason. So...close....

My other concern? My BIGGEST freaking concern? EVERYONE'S biggest concern?! SPECIAL TEAMS. I predicted a special teams touchdown for the Jets, and while they didn't TECHNICALLY score off the blocked FG, it directly lead to a touchdown, and I think it was the second, back-breaking TD. That means that special teams, kicking in particular, have cost us in each of the first 3 games. Blocked FG's, missed FG's, missed XP's, and now a blocked punt. I've seen this garbage in college, but I don't remember seeing such futility in the pros. I'm not being a negative troll here, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but our special teams HAVE to improve significantly or we're going to lose some real heart-breakers, something we know all too well. The stat line will show our kicker making both of his XP attempts and one FG. One 40ish yard FG, two extra points. HOWEVER....if you SAW them, they didn't quite instill a sense of optimism, to put it mildly. I mean, the FG was borderline hysterical. He "Banana Kicked It" right through the uprights, and it started left and dramatically curled back to the middle. I DON'T think he meant to do that, and lord help this guy on the golf course because he's got a slice that makes Charles Barkley look like Tiger Woods. And the first XP?! Yo! That thing squeaked its butt JUST inside, lol! Hey, they counted, right? Now, on the final extra point, I was TERRIFIED. Gigantic difference in being up 4 versus 3, obviously. When he booted it, I couldn't see the ball. I had to gauge the crowd. Apparently he kicked it SO HIGH it shot right out of the screen. Lol! But it was perfect, and it was a giant kick. It really was, and I'm hoping our new kicker is the real deal because I can promise you that he's going to have a chance to be a hero, or a goat. A good kicker in Cleveland will be treated like a deity. Is he ready? Hope so. 

 

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16 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I will gladly admit in the future that I was wrong when I was pissed off when I heard the words: 

"With the first pick of the 2018 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma".

Shmuck pride, I just want the Browns to win. Enough with talking draft by October. 

As I watched the announcement I too was pissed.   I thought Dorsey had just blown the first pick.  I wanted Darnold.   I admit, so far it looks like I was wrong.   Mayfield just has the  "it" factor.  He has a much stronger arm than I thought and he puts the ball in the right place.     I honestly believe that after all these years we got us a really good one.   Hell he might be a great one. 

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Jiggins, I have the same overall Special Teams concerns as you & this kicker seems to be walking on thin ice. I just don't see him as a "Cleveland weather" kicker. BTW, did we work out Ross Martin, the Ohio kicker who was here in TC? He was an 83% kicker in college, NOT 69.5%. I hope we're still looking.

Mike

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I think it was sometime in March that I fully decided on Baker. I eventually got to the point where I would've been happy with Baker or Darnold, but I knew I didn't want Josh Allen, and while I felt Rosen was the most "pro ready" and would be a good QB, I didn't think WE could take him because of his injury history. I was really in the Baker bandwagon, but a part of me just didn't think we'd actually TAKE him, ya know? I shrieked like a 7 year old girl when they announced Baker at the draft...I couldn't believe it.

What were the main reasons for wanting him? First and foremost, accuracy. Other-worldly accuracy. Placing the ball consistently into tight windows and guys ACTUALLY getting yards after the catch. After that, I felt he had the PERFECT personality for our downtrodden franchise. A two-time walk-on that was never given anything, and someone who had to work for everything his entire career. After Baker told the media that he was the guy who could transform our team's fate, that was when it became obvious to me. He wasn't hoping the Browns would pass on him, he genuinely WANTED to come here. 

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3 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I think it was sometime in March that I fully decided on Baker. I eventually got to the point where I would've been happy with Baker or Darnold, but I knew I didn't want Josh Allen, and while I felt Rosen was the most "pro ready" and would be a good QB, I didn't think WE could take him because of his injury history. I was really in the Baker bandwagon, but a part of me just didn't think we'd actually TAKE him, ya know? I shrieked like a 7 year old girl when they announced Baker at the draft...I couldn't believe it.

What were the main reasons for wanting him? First and foremost, accuracy. Other-worldly accuracy. Placing the ball consistently into tight windows and guys ACTUALLY getting yards after the catch. After that, I felt he had the PERFECT personality for our downtrodden franchise. A two-time walk-on that was never given anything, and someone who had to work for everything his entire career. After Baker told the media that he was the guy who could transform our team's fate, that was when it became obvious to me. He wasn't hoping the Browns would pass on him, he genuinely WANTED to come here. 

Same here Jiggins. I've been preaching it for years here. By the time you get to NFL draft Day- you're either accurate- or you're not. It's the primary reason I was almost ill when the Browns drafted Kizer, I saw too much of his errant passing at Notre dame, and Surprise! For the most part it was more of the same old, same old with the Browns. 

PS- add Josh Allen to the scattershot list. I watched at least 4 complete games of his at Wyoming...   

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I did not realize Gordon never dropped a pass. ;)

 

We'll see what he does in NE, but here this year? He had three targets... one catch... one drop.

 

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32 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Same here Jiggins. I've been preaching it for years here. By the time you get to NFL draft Day- you're either accurate- or you're not. It's the primary reason I was almost ill when the Browns drafted Kizer, I saw too much of his errant passing at Notre dame, and Surprise! For the most part it was more of the same old, same old with the Browns. 

PS- add Josh Allen to the scattershot list. I watched at least 4 complete games of his at Wyoming...   

Well that's just it. Sounds stupidly simple, but can a guy put the ball where he wants it and do it consistently? I could give a cold dump about a guy who can throw it 80 yards. I really don't care. It's the reason why I so desperately wanted Alex Smith on our team. Get the ball out, get it in stride, and get the first down. And Kizer, lord....you nailed it. How many times we get near the end zone and he couldn't deliver it? Constantly missing receivers over the middle, throwing picks, and never, EVER to throw a fade pattern. Like...ever. 

But know this Browns fans: As good as Baker played, and it was near legendary when you factor everything in, he's GOING to struggle more than he shines this year. It's what history tells us about virtually all rookie QBs. The GOOD news is that Baker has the mindset to overcome the doubt, the fear, and the hesitation that comes with learning the hard way. It's yet another reason why I wanted him. Remember when Kevin Hogan came into the game and immediately started slinging the rock around? The ball was coming out hot and on time. He moved us down the field, so much so that Hogan got the start against the Texans, and then proceeded to get his entire butt blown out of the water. He was never heard from again....and his butt is still missing. 

I say this not to compare Hogan to Mayfield, only to remind everyone that each week is different. When NFL coaches have time to prepare for someone, especially a rookie, things tend to get tough. Backup QBs are said to be the most popular guys in town when you have a losing franchise. They come in, provide a spark, and people think, "Hey! This guy can do it every week!" Well, more often than not, he can't. Which is why he IS the backup. 

Now obviously this is a bit different because Baker isn't just some well-traveled backup QB, he's the freaking #1 overall pick. And once you DO go to him, you're not likely to switch back, so you want the timing to be right. I'd been saying for a few days we'd see Baker start at Oakland because we have the mini break after Thursday, and then he'd get a complete week of practice as the #1. 

We're all going to be excited. I'm going to be crazy with anticipation. But maybe I'm just too scared to FULLY believe, but I know how difficult it is to win on the road. Those fumbles don't roll your way. The calls aren't there from refs. The kicks that squeezed in before, bounce off uprights. It's a different animal, and while I'm beyond stoked, I'm trying to cautious myself about predicting success from my fireball rookie QB. Oakland is garbage, that's obvious. Their pass rush is hurting without Mack, and you run a giant risk giving Baker a clean pocket. However, it's as good as any game for a first start, and I'm completely pumped. 

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Dr. Rosenpenis...

Name that movie..

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