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The Gipper

Dynasties, Near Dynasties

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I think, perhaps that one way to tell what may have been among the greatest dynasties in NFL history is by how many Hall of Fame Players came off a particular team.  So here is a compilation of players that players on dynasties...or near dynasties.   I think I will begin with what I believe is the clear #1 choice:

1960s Green Bay Packers:

Players:  Bart Starr, Dave Robinson, Forrest Gregg, Henry Jordan, Herb Adderly, Jerry Kramer, Jim Ringo, Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, Ray Nitstche, Willie Davis, Willie Wood.    Coach Vince Lombardi

12 players, 1 Head Coach,   13 total

And here are others, in no particular order, though the few at the top may be the arguable next top group:

1970s  Pittsburgh Steelers

Players:  Franco Harris, Jack Ham, Jack Lambert, Mean Joe Greene, John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Mel Blount, Mike Webster, Terry Bradshaw.  Coach Chuck Noll,  owners/admins.   Art Rooney, Dan Roone

9 players 1 Head Coach  2 owners/admins   Total:  12

1940s/50s Cleveland Browns

Players:  Bill Willis, Dante Lavelli, Frank Gatski, Len Ford, Lou Groza, Marion Motley, Mike MacCormack, Otto Graham   Coach Paul Brown

8 players  1 Head Coach  9 total

60s/70s Raiders

Players:  Art Shell, Dave Casper, Fred Biletnikoff, Gene Upshaw, George Blanda, Jim Otto, Ken Stabler, Ray Guy, Ted Hendrix, Willie Brown.  Coach John Madden  Owner/Admin Al Davis

10 players,  1 Head Coach  1 Owner/admin.  12 total

1980s 49ers

Players:  Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Ronnie Lott, Steve Young   Coach Bill Walsh,   Owner/admin Eddie DeBartolo Jr.

6 players,  1 Head Coach  1 Owner/admin 8 total

70s Dolphins

Players:  Bob Griese,  Jim Langer, Larry Csonka, Larry Little, Nick Buonticonti, Paul Warfield   Head Coach  Don Shula

6 players  1 Head Coach  7 total

70s Vikings

Players:  Alan Page, Carl Eller, Fran Tarkenton, Mick Tinglehoff, Paul Krause, Ron Yary     Coach Bud Grant

6 players   1 Head Coach  7 total 

60s/70s Chiefs:

Players:  Bobby Bell, Curly Culp, Emmit Thomas, Jan Stenurud, Len Dawson, Buck Buchanan, Willie Lanier   Coach Hank Stram  Owner Lamar Hunt

7 players,  1 head coach  1 Owner/admin.  9 total

 

I may look at more teams later.   Or is you know of a team that should be included, say so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just one note on the above:   The Raiders team mentioned here is really the team that won only 1 Super Bowl...and lost one.   The Raiders team that won 2 Super Bowls later in the 80s was a much different team really:   Tom Flores was the HC,  Plunkett the QB, Marcus Allen a big factor.

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4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I think, perhaps that one way to tell what may have been among the greatest dynasties in NFL history is by how many Hall of Fame Players came off a particular team.  So here is a compilation of players that players on dynasties...or near dynasties.   I think I will begin with what I believe is the clear #1 choice:

.......I may look at more teams later.   Or is you know of a team that should be included, say so.

That's a pretty complete list in itself the concentration of HOF players is a big reason for dynasties along with the coaches and team ownership/management. 

The only other area would be the transition of the somewhat popular AFL into the NFL and the players and teams that came along with the move.

.........

This fourth version of the AFL was the most successful, created by a number of owners who had been refused NFL expansion franchises or had minor shares of NFL franchises. The AFL's original lineup consisted of an Eastern division of the New York Titans, Boston Patriots, Buffalo Bills, and the Houston Oilers, and a Western division of the Los Angeles Chargers, Denver Broncos, Oakland Raiders, and Dallas Texans. The league first gained attention by signing 75% of the NFL's first-round draft choices in 1960, including Houston's successful signing of college star and Heisman Trophy winner Billy Cannon.

While the first years of the AFL saw uneven competition and low attendance, the league was buttressed by a generous television contract with the American Broadcasting Company (ABC) (followed by a contract with the competing National Broadcasting Company (NBC) for games starting with the 1965 season) that broadcast the more offense-oriented football league nationwide. Continuing to attract top talent from colleges and the NFL by the mid-1960s, as well as successful franchise shifts of the Chargers from L.A. south to San Diego and the Texans north to Kansas City (becoming the Kansas City Chiefs), the AFL established a dedicated following. The transformation of the struggling Titans into the New York Jets under new ownership further solidified the league's reputation among the major media..........

 

 

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How about the 50s Lions? They won NFL titles (vs the Browns each time) in 1952, 1953 and 1957. 

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2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

How about the 50s Lions? They won NFL titles (vs the Browns each time) in 1952, 1953 and 1957. 

Not bad in 1954 either, the 1950s were the real hurrah for the Lions.

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54 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Buffalo Bills

Jim Kelly, Marv Levy, Bill Polian, Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed.

Very similar to the 70s Vikings, at least they did make it to 4 super bowls, shoulda' won at least one.

.......the Bills also had some good role players like Steve Tasker.

Edited by mjp28
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16 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

How about the 50s Lions? They won NFL titles (vs the Browns each time) in 1952, 1953 and 1957. 

That would be likely to be one of the " other candidates"  that I perhaps would try to document.   Except for the Browns I had not gone further back in history than the 60s.  It does take a little bit of time to accumulate this data, and I had just run out of time at that point.

Edit:   But, here is the deal on the 50s Lions:

7 players:   Bobby Layne, D.i.c.k  Stanfel, Doak Walker, Jack Christenson, Joe Schmidt, Lou Creekmur, Yale Lary

But, oddly with the Lions...a couple of guys perhaps associated with that team were NOT part of the Lions dynasty:  D.i.c.k LeBeau did not join the Lions until 1959, and D.i.c.k Night Train Lane until 1960...so, as I said, they were not part of the dynasty.

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16 hours ago, mjp28 said:

That's a pretty complete list in itself the concentration of HOF players is a big reason for dynasties along with the coaches and team ownership/management. 

The only other area would be the transition of the somewhat popular AFL into the NFL and the players and teams that came along with the move.

.........

This fourth version of the AFL was the most successful, created by a number of owners who had been refused NFL expansion franchises or had minor shares of NFL franchises. The AFL's original lineup consisted of an Eastern division of the New York Titans, Boston Patriots, Buffalo Bills, and the Houston Oilers, and a Western division of the Los Angeles Chargers, Denver Broncos, Oakland Raiders, and Dallas Texans. The league first gained attention by signing 75% of the NFL's first-round draft choices in 1960, including Houston's successful signing of college star and Heisman Trophy winner Billy Cannon.

While the first years of the AFL saw uneven competition and low attendance, the league was buttressed by a generous television contract with the American Broadcasting Company (ABC) (followed by a contract with the competing National Broadcasting Company (NBC) for games starting with the 1965 season) that broadcast the more offense-oriented football league nationwide. Continuing to attract top talent from colleges and the NFL by the mid-1960s, as well as successful franchise shifts of the Chargers from L.A. south to San Diego and the Texans north to Kansas City (becoming the Kansas City Chiefs), the AFL established a dedicated following. The transformation of the struggling Titans into the New York Jets under new ownership further solidified the league's reputation among the major media..........

 

 

On Tyrer, I see that I was under a couple of erroneous assumptions:  for whatever reason I thought he played for Da Bears, but no.    Plus, I thought that he killed himself and his wife shortly after he ended his football career.......  Well, it was still "short" ...only 6 years (last played in 1974...died in 1980)...but I thought only a year or two.   Nevertheless, but for the manner of his death and that of his wife I think he would have been a serious HOF candidate.  I might check to see if perhaps he was a HOF finalist for 1 or 2 years.   But his actions killed his HOF potential along with his family.

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15 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Buffalo Bills

Jim Kelly, Marv Levy, Bill Polian, Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed.

Good...another one of the "others".

But here, we had only 4 players.....and 3 others,   HC Levy,  GM Polian, and Owner Ralph Wilson

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15 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

90s Cowboys?

Irvin, Aikman,  Emmit, Larry Allen....and Charles Haley who I think was on them for all 3 SB wins....and perhaps you can squeeze Deion Sanders in there as he played in one of their SB wins.

But they also have Jerry Jones in there, which is a travesty in that it should be Jimmy Johnson, not Jones who would be HOF material.  It was Johnson who selected and coached that team for the most part in that dynasty.    All Jerry Jones is is a greedy money grubbing arsehole.

So, 5 players, and 1 Owner/Admin.

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12 hours ago, GuNNerGatSKi said:

Frank Gatski 😍

I was afraid with your post that I had missed him....but no....I had him in there.

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1 hour ago, The Cysko Kid said:

I think the Patriots have to be on any dynasty list. 

Too soon  for Hall of Fame consideration however most of the players

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Tom Brady and Randy Moss are already locks. Gronkowski looks probable eventually.  If they produce only two or three hall of fame players and a coach it makes them that much more impressive. 

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10 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Tom Brady and Randy Moss are already locks. Gronkowski looks probable eventually.  If they produce only two or three hall of fame players and a coach it makes them that much more impressive. 

For whatever reasons  more current "dynasties"  do not seem to be filled with  HOFers the way previous dynasties, like the Packers, Browns, Steelers were.  The Patriots dynasty will be looked at as the product of just 2-3 superior talents:  Brady/Belichick.    You can throw in a Moss (but I do not think he was actually with them for any of their titles...just that one loss to the Giants).  Gronk was not there for the first 3 of 5 titles going back to 01, 03, 04. Is ANYONE else on these Pats that have played for them since 2001 a possible candidate?    

Likewise the 49ers basically had just 3 guys:  Lott, Rice, Montana....and later Young  (oh, and Haley).   So...3-4 guys for them as well....compare to 12, 9, 8 for the Packers, Steelers, Browns.

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22 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

For whatever reasons  more current "dynasties"  do not seem to be filled with  HOFers the way previous dynasties, like the Packers, Browns, Steelers were.  The Patriots dynasty will be looked at as the product of just 2-3 superior talents:  Brady/Belichick.    You can throw in a Moss (but I do not think he was actually with them for any of their titles...just that one loss to the Giants).  Gronk was not there for the first 3 of 5 titles going back to 01, 03, 04. Is ANYONE else on these Pats that have played for them since 2001 a possible candidate?    

Likewise the 49ers basically had just 3 guys:  Lott, Rice, Montana....and later Young  (oh, and Haley).   So...3-4 guys for them as well....compare to 12, 9, 8 for the Packers, Steelers, Browns.

Ya, Rodney Harriso,n my be HOF material, but the majority of his carerr is with the Chargers.

Their other best players ... Matt Light, Richard Seymour, Willie McGinest ... Very good but probably below Hall threshold.

Zombo

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3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

For whatever reasons  more current "dynasties"  do not seem to be filled with  HOFers the way previous dynasties, like the Packers, Browns, Steelers were.  The Patriots dynasty will be looked at as the product of just 2-3 superior talents:  Brady/Belichick.    You can throw in a Moss (but I do not think he was actually with them for any of their titles...just that one loss to the Giants).  Gronk was not there for the first 3 of 5 titles going back to 01, 03, 04. Is ANYONE else on these Pats that have played for them since 2001 a possible candidate?    

Likewise the 49ers basically had just 3 guys:  Lott, Rice, Montana....and later Young  (oh, and Haley).   So...3-4 guys for them as well....compare to 12, 9, 8 for the Packers, Steelers, Browns.

Same with the MLB, NBA, NHL you knew the starters year after year. 

The NFL set out to "bust up the dynasties"  and create parity....or parody depending on your point of view.

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1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

Same with the MLB, NBA, NHL you knew the starters year after year. 

The NFL set out to "bust up the dynasties"  and create parity....or parody depending on your point of view.

I don't know that it was the NFL that did that.   It was the NFLPA that did that really.   When Free Agency came in there has been massive movement of players.  In the 50s/60s/70s players could not move from team to team like they have been able to do so the last   25-30 years.  A player plays for a couple of Super Bowl winning teams....he wants to look elsewhere for a massive payday....and those winning combinations break up.  Unless, of course, you have a Montana or a Brady who controls things at a very high level, and stays put somewhat.   (although even Joe Cool left SFO)

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3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I don't know that it was the NFL that did that.   It was the NFLPA that did that really.   When Free Agency came in there has been massive movement of players.  In the 50s/60s/70s players could not move from team to team like they have been able to do so the last   25-30 years.  A player plays for a couple of Super Bowl winning teams....he wants to look elsewhere for a massive payday....and those winning combinations break up.  Unless, of course, you have a Montana or a Brady who controls things at a very high level, and stays put somewhat.   (although even Joe Cool left SFO)

There has always been some debate on that parity or no parity here's an interesting read on that, do the fans love it or hate it?  

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/10/17/16488320/parity-myth-dynasty-roger-goodell-collective-bargaining-agreement

.....The NFL wanted parity, and now it’s here. But if parity looks like a bad Giants team dismantling the Broncos on Sunday night in Denver, it won’t be long until the NFL ends up wishing it had its own version of Barcelona–Real Madrid.....

 

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