Has there ever been a more pivotal/important season for the Browns?

[Clevfan4life]

ill have to.side with ghoolie on this one. They have to put something on the field worth at least a couple casual late night bar pig fuks. U know those ones where ur buddies already left as well as anyone that might know u and its essentially just u and some herd stock. 

 

☕

[Clevfan4life]

if they cant put out at least that......things could get super ugly again for clev football. Im not expecting them to win a whole lot if games but im expectibg competitive play. Im expecting sone 2nd and 3rd year players to break through and play meaningful fukking football. 

that more tjan wins/losses, for me, determines how i feel about the coaching staff. And we'll see it early when the players are at their healthiest. 

like nassib for example, if he hasnt made significant strides in technique as well as power/speed by his 3rd year.....some of that has to be put on the organization.

[The Gipper]

Notes on the above:

1. In reality, the two teams that could potentially be candidates at risk for being moved are the Bills and the Saints, because their leases end the soonest.   I will have to check on the deal with a new Buffalo stadium.   I am going to go out on a limb and say that they will not want to continue to play in the old stadium in Orchard Park....unless it is totally revamped, like they did in Chicago and Jax.  Also....both Buffalo and New Orleans are two of the 3 smallest NFL market areas, Green Bay only being smaller. 

2. Now, let's not be naive...NFL owners are among the greediest species on the planet, and if they think they can blackmail cities or  make more money by threatening to move teams...they will be delighted to do so....as we have seen numerous times in the past.    But, two things have to happen:   A. a team must have a somewhat bad stadium situation....as we have seen with San Diego and Oakland...or there must be a greedy owner like Stan Kroenke who thinks he can make more money elsewhere even if the stadium situation he has is not bad.   and B.  you must have other cities that are vying to take on the burden of building a state of the art stadium to lure an NFL team there.  

3.  A.   I am NOT aware of any city which has stepped up to say they want to make the investment necessary to bring a team there.   Have any of you heard of any?  The only talk I have heard is about London...or may Mexico City   (Toronto? Tokyo?)   

4.  IF, IF, IF....all of the above somehow were to take place, it would not be until 2026....when 3 teams have leases that will expire, (besides Buff. and N.O):  Miami, New England, Cincinnati.

The NFL ain't moving from the Boston or Miami area.   And I think they like having Super Bowl games in New Orleans too much to let a team slip out of there....BUT......I would NOT put it past a turdball like Jerry Jones and some of his ilk to want to throw  either Buffalo or Cinci under the bus.....and try to get them to move to what they perceive are bigger....better paying markets.

So...hell no, don't worry about Cleveland, so much as worry about our northern neighbors  Buffalo or Cinci.   The Jerry Jones like turdheads would say that Cinci fans can just become either Colts, Browns or Titan fans and that Buffalo fans can follow the Browns or Steelers.....or Giants/Jets.

One potentially logical location for a new or relocated team would be San Antonio/Austin.....but Turd Jones thinks that is his exclusive territory...so he would fight any relocated team going there.   (but I know from having a daughter there....that SA is nowhere exclusive to the Cowboys....more and more are becoming Houston Texan fans)

 

[The Gipper]

Jerry Jones:

[Clevfan4life]

yeah im sure cincy, with their yearly competitiveness. are in danger of moving. Such a sht team they are vying for the afc north crown yearly.

[mjp28]

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

3.  A.   I am NOT aware of any city which has stepped up to say they want to make the investment necessary to bring a team there.   Have any of you heard of any?  The only talk I have heard is about London...or may Mexico City   (Toronto? Tokyo?)   

4.  IF, IF, IF....all of the above somehow were to take place, it would not be until 2026....when 3 teams have leases that will expire, (besides Buff. and N.O):  Miami, New England, Cincinnati.

The NFL ain't moving from the Boston or Miami area.   And I think they like having Super Bowl games in New Orleans too much to let a team slip out of there....BUT......I would NOT put it past a turdball like Jerry Jones and some of his ilk to want to throw  either Buffalo or Cinci under the bus.....and try to get them to move to what they perceive are bigger....better paying markets.

So...hell no, don't worry about Cleveland, so much as worry about our northern neighbors  Buffalo or Cinci.   The Jerry Jones like turdheads would say that Cinci fans can just become either Colts, Browns or Titan fans and that Buffalo fans can follow the Browns or Steelers.....or Giants/Jets.

One potentially logical location for a new or relocated team would be San Antonio/Austin.....but Turd Jones thinks that is his exclusive territory...so he would fight any relocated team going there.   (but I know from having a daughter there....that SA is nowhere exclusive to the Cowboys....more and more are becoming Houston Texan fans)

On 3, unless there is a unique paring like a Bezos, Gates or other multi-billionaire steps up in conjunction with a municipality and says "I want a team in my or this city" it will be hard. Plus tax dollars alone are not a popular item now for a new rich man's game and then there's all the environmental, security, logistical factors involved......even though done right it can be a big boom for a region.

Plus the future of sports, entertainment, TV itself is changing right now, who wants to invest billions with that uncertainty.  Even venues like the Olympics are challenged now.

On 4, are the northern or older "rust belt" cities still unattractive for future continued or new development? (Personally I think investment will start to head back north even to Canada in the coming decades for a variety of reasons like climate among others.) I thought Mexico City was a good choice 10 years ago maybe not now. I remember talk about the Bills moving to Canada, still viable? 

Would the NFL want a 3rd team in Texas or does it matter? Will soccer continue to pick up enough of a following to change investors dollars from American football to futbol? (God I hope not.  )

[The Gipper]

15 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

yeah im sure cincy, with their yearly competitiveness. are in danger of moving. Such a sht team they are vying for the afc north crown yearly.

Well, they vied for the AFCN crown for a few years.

Competiveness has never been the issue in these moves that have been made.    The Oakland Raiders won the Super Bowl in 1980.....and they went 8-1 in the stike shortened 1982 season....and in 1983 they move to LA.

The Browns won their last playoff game in 1994.....and in 1995 Modell tried to move them.

I mean....in 1945 the Cleveland Rams won the NFL title.  In 1946 they were playing in LA.

The Houston Oilers had made 7 consecutive playoff appearances....and two years later they were in Tennessee. 

For the Bengals, the question in 2026 will be:  who is the owner....and what is the stadium situation.    Mike Brown...not sure how old he is...getting up there.  I think his daughter is heavily involved.  Will she want to continue?    Plus, no, I don't think that stadium will be in bad shape....its newer than the Browns stadium, no?  So that should not be a factor, and they should not move.

But do you trust the NFL to be fair?

[mjp28]

18 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Well, they vied for the AFCN crown for a few years.

Competiveness has never been the issue in these moves that have been made.    The Oakland Raiders won the Super Bowl in 1980.....and they went 8-1 in the stike shortened 1982 season....and in 1983 they move to LA.

The Browns won their last playoff game in 1994.....and in 1995 Modell tried to move them.

I mean....in 1945 the Cleveland Rams won the NFL title.  In 1946 they were playing in LA.

The Houston Oilers had made 7 consecutive playoff appearances....and two years later they were in Tennessee. 

For the Bengals, the question in 2026 will be:  who is the owner....and what is the stadium situation.    Mike Brown...not sure how old he is...getting up there.  I think his daughter is heavily involved.  Will she want to continue?    Plus, no, I don't think that stadium will be in bad shape....its newer than the Browns stadium, no?  So that should not be a factor, and they should not move.

But do you trust the NFL to be fair?

Raiders - that was that creep AL Davis! Just look at the Oakland MLB stadium, a lasting monument to his pressure and greed.

Cleveland Rams - I'm not sure on the real reasons why.

Houston Oilers- ironically the local fans never really got behind the team to stay, in one rally there were more press than protesters. (Had a buddy in Houston back then, former player, he was surprised on that. Cleveland came out in droves to save the BROWNS!)

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Raiders - that was that creep AL Davis! Just look at the Oakland MLB stadium, a lasting monument to his pressure and greed.

Cleveland Rams - I'm not sure on the real reasons why.

Houston Oilers- ironically the local fans never really got behind the team to stay, in one rally there were more press than protesters. (Had a buddy in Houston back then, former player, he was surprised on that. Cleveland came out in droves to save the BROWNS!)

The Rams never had a huge following here in Cleveland, and their owners knew that they likely would lose the battle with the Browns and the very popular Paul Brown, so they bailed for the West Coast. 

[Clevfan4life]

i had no idea the rams were ever in clev. had to.look that up, they left during ww2. holy fuk how old are some of u? 

[mjp28]

4 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

i had no idea the rams were ever in clev. had to.look that up, they left during ww2. holy fuk how old are some of u? 

That was before my time.....I was born in 1950, same as the (NFL) CLEVELAND BROWNS. 

[Dutch Oven]

8 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

i had no idea the rams were ever in clev. had to.look that up, they left during ww2. holy fuk how old are some of u? 

I wasn't around for the Civil War either, but I know that Gettysburg was a pretty big deal. 😁

Oh, and I'm 42. 

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Dom gummit - I had coffee in my mouth when I got to that last line.  Key word in that sentence is had.

Oh god what a vivid image, I hope you didn't get the computer too. 

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Oh god what a vivid image, I hope you didn't get the computer too. 

😄Intended or not MJ, if you would have had me explaining sticky laptop keys to the Warden - that's about as good as it gets in the ball busting ranks...

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

like nassib for example, if he hasnt made significant strides in technique as well as power/speed by his 3rd year.....some of that has to be put on the organization.

Keep in mind, you're talking about Ogbah's backup (the 3rd best DE on an 0-16 team).  Just a week or 2 before Ogbah went on IR - PFF ranked him as the #1 rated DE against the run while he also led us in sacks.  Is that improvement or horrific coaching? 

Jamie Meder was the #2 rated DT against the run when he went on IR.  Again, horrific coaching or bad luck with injury?  Coley was also enjoying his best season.

Schobert moved to MLB and was tied for the most tackles in the NFL during a Pro Bowl year. Having said that, his pass defense responsibility was both inside hook zones while our rookie FS was lining up in Toronto every play to explain those challenges with zone transitions.

Coaches aren't miracle workers.  To get a better understanding of that comment - try challenging someone to a game of chess where you give up all your major attack pieces and only use pawns while allowing your opponent to use all the major attack pieces plus the pawns.  Fair or not, let me know how smart you feel 5 minutes into that kind of matchup.

Does anyone really think Barry Switzer was the best NFL Football Coach on the planet when he won a SB the year his biggest concern was "who's got the pretzels?"   Who here even thinks he knew the names of half his starters?    The setup he inherited had that team winning in spite of him.   IMO, you're only as good as what the FO provides.  Do you really look at THIS off season and feel strongly that THIS is the year to complain?

Back in BC (Before cellphones) I got hired to take over a football program that didn't win a football game in 3 years.  The 2nd year, we came in 2nd place and knocked off our undefeated cross town rival the last week.  The first year we won 1, tied one, and lost the rest by competitive margins under 7 points.  The tie, were were down 20-0 at half before knotting the score at 26 and missing a 41 yard yard FG just to the right of the goal post.  Do you know how much easier it was to call plays when I had 6 different RBs that could score from anywhere on the field vrs hoping we had just 1 guy that could do that?  The 2nd year I had a parent of a returning starter say everyone can't believe how much your play calling has improved. You're the talk of the town.  I told him I appreciate the compliment but I can assure you I'm not any smarter than I was last year so please give the credit where credit is due.  Don't overlook this kind of thing when you see a team going 1-31. We want and need it to be as easy as replacing just 1 coach but we needed to improve the following positions: QB, WR, CB, S, RB while it's also important to have both edge rushers healthy for a full year fwiw.

[The Gipper]

23 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

i had no idea the rams were ever in clev. had to.look that up, they left during ww2. holy fuk how old are some of u? 

They have these things called books and also this new thing called the Internet with her things where you can go and read stuff about stuff you know like history including football history

[hoorta]

On 7/28/2018 at 12:19 PM, The Gipper said:

Notes on the above:

o make the investment necessary to bring a team there.   Have any of you heard of any?  The only talk I have heard is about London...or may Mexico City   (Toronto? Tokyo?)   

4.  IF, IF, IF....all of the above somehow were to take place, it would not be until 2026....when 3 teams have leases that will expire, (besides Buff. and N.O):  Miami, New England, Cincinnati.

The NFL ain't moving from the Boston or Miami area.   And I think they like having Super Bowl games in New Orleans too much to let a team slip out of there....BUT......I would NOT put it past a turdball like Jerry Jones and some of his ilk to want to throw  either Buffalo or Cinci under the bus.....and try to get them to move to what they perceive are bigger....better paying markets.

So...hell no, don't worry about Cleveland, so much as worry about our northern neighbors  Buffalo or Cinci.   The Jerry Jones like turdheads would say that Cinci fans can just become either Colts, Browns or Titan fans and that Buffalo fans can follow the Browns or Steelers.....or Giants/Jets.

Gip- local take. As long as Mike Brown is alive the Bengals are going nowhere. He could have taken the same deal Art got to move to Baltimore, and declined. Now Katie Blackburn (who is the De Facto owner in training) may have other ideas. Cinci got blackballed to build Paul Brown. Don't forget, like St. Louis Cinci is a baseball town, and the interest in the Bengals is directly proportional to how well (or not) they're doing. I have to say interest in the Reds is significantly down, since they went in the dumpster. The Yankees greatly thank them for unloading Aroldis Chapman.  

[The Gipper]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

Gip- local take. As long as Mike Brown is alive the Bengals are going nowhere. He could have taken the same deal Art got to move to Baltimore, and declined. Now Katie Blackburn (who is the De Facto owner in training) may have other ideas. Cinci got blackballed to build Paul Brown. Don't forget, like St. Louis Cinci is a baseball town, and the interest in the Bengals is directly proportional to how well (or not) they're doing. I have to say interest in the Reds is significantly down, since they went in the dumpster. The Yankees greatly thank them for unloading Aroldis Chapman.  

How old is Paul Brown Stadium?

[hoorta]

51 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

How old is Paul Brown Stadium?

Um, 18 years old opened in 2000. And to my everlasting satisfaction (I was there) the first NFL regular season game was against none other than the year old reborn Cleveland Browns. Nothing like inaugurating the stadium with a guaranteed win huh? Nope (had to look the score up) Browns won 24-7.    

That aside- Paul Brown is WAY better than First Energy. Both aesthetically and functionally. 

From Wiki: "Paul Brown Stadium is the only football stadium to make a list of "America's favorite 150 buildings and structures", according to a Harris Interactive survey. Paul Brown Stadium ranked 101st on the list, whose range included all manner of major structures — skyscrapers, museums, churches, hotels, bridges, national memorials and more. No other football stadium was voted among the top 150, and among all sports venues, only Wrigley Field (31) and Yankee Stadium (84) ranked higher than Paul Brown Stadium."

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Um, 18 years old opened in 2000. And to my everlasting satisfaction (I was there) the first NFL regular season game was against none other than the year old reborn Cleveland Browns. Nothing like inaugurating the stadium with a guaranteed win huh? Nope (had to look the score up) Browns won 24-7.    

That aside- Paul Brown is WAY better than First Energy. Both aesthetically and functionally. 

From Wiki: "Paul Brown Stadium is the only football stadium to make a list of "America's favorite 150 buildings and structures", according to a Harris Interactive survey. Paul Brown Stadium ranked 101st on the list, whose range included all manner of major structures — skyscrapers, museums, churches, hotels, bridges, national memorials and more. No other football stadium was voted among the top 150, and among all sports venues, only Wrigley Field (31) and Yankee Stadium (84) ranked higher than Paul Brown Stadium."

I'd be curious what other plans there was for the new Browns stadium, because the one they picked is pretty 'eh'. 

Not horrible, not like the "new" Soldier Field in Chicago, which is a disaster, but pretty mediocre still. 

[hoorta]

54 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'd be curious what other plans there was for the new Browns stadium, because the one they picked is pretty 'eh'. 

Not horrible, not like the "new" Soldier Field in Chicago, which is a disaster, but pretty mediocre still. 

I don't know about other "plans", but the thinking was to keep as much of the "feel" of the old stadium. Bad move. That's my biggest gripe. There's very little room behind the stands. Sardine city. Go to any of the newer stadiums- Paul Brown, Lucas Oil, Ford Field, or Reliant- there's at least 3, and sometimes 5 times more room there when you want to run out and grab a beer, or hit the rest rooms at halftime. 

[The Gipper]

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

I don't know about other "plans", but the thinking was to keep as much of the "feel" of the old stadium. Bad move. That's my biggest gripe. There's very little room behind the stands. Sardine city. Go to any of the newer stadiums- Paul Brown, Lucas Oil, Ford Field, or Reliant- there's at least 3, and sometimes 5 times more room there when you want to run out and grab a beer, or hit the rest rooms at halftime. 

I know that there is actual talk from the Haslams, and maybe the city about building a new Stadium.   And lets face it....at minimum it would have to be a retractable dome if they do so.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/05/browns_say_they_are_exploring.html

[mjp28]

10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I know that there is actual talk from the Haslams, and maybe the city about building a new Stadium.   And lets face it....at minimum it would have to be a retractable dome if they do so.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/05/browns_say_they_are_exploring.html

If you ever want to attract a possible Super Bowl or other big event use up north it better include a retractable roof single use stadium. 

Same with baseball too for March/April and late September/October no rain or snow out games......and comfy too!

[hoorta]

13 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I know that there is actual talk from the Haslams, and maybe the city about building a new Stadium.   And lets face it....at minimum it would have to be a retractable dome if they do so.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/05/browns_say_they_are_exploring.html

Yeah Gip, in my visiting other NFL stadiums tours, First Energy isn't all that great by comparison. Could it be updated? Sure, but it would cost almost as much as building a new one. As in home remodeling, if you have enough money, you can do just about anything. Build out the exterior 150' and toss a roof over it? BTW, I liked what they did remodeling the Dolphins stadium, and AFAIK, no talk of replacing Arrowhead or Ketsup Field. 

I just don't get the one upmanship NFL owners are doing in regards to stadiums. Ohio State's (or Michigan's) are absolute dumps by comparison. It's not about the fans bitching either. At OSU, you're probably paying $20,000 a year for an open air bleacher seat with a detachable back. Incindentally, the rest rooms are atrocious there.

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, mjp28 said:

If you ever want to attract a possible Super Bowl or other big event use up north it better include a retractable roof single use stadium. 

Same with baseball too for March/April and late September/October no rain or snow out games......and comfy too!

I love football outside in the elements. Love snow football, mud football, etc....

But fiscally there are not many things more useless than an open-air football stadium in the North. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

On 7/28/2018 at 1:27 PM, Clevfan4life said:

i had no idea the rams were ever in clev. had to.look that up, they left during ww2. holy fuk how old are some of u? 

1906.

 

[mjp28]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I love football outside in the elements. Love snow football, mud football, etc....

But fiscally there are not many things more useless than an open-air football stadium in the North. 

You would have loved the Ol'Muni.......wait you're 42, you remember numbers painted on frozen mud,  freaking cold winds coming off of Lake Erie, baseball infield in play including the pitcher's mound,  players huddled around kerosene heaters, unbelievablly smelly men's restrooms.

Ahhhhhh,  football in NE OHIO! 

[Clevfan4life]

On 7/29/2018 at 12:40 PM, The Gipper said:

They have these things called books and also this new thing called the Internet with her things where you can go and read stuff about stuff you know like history including football history

i prob have to.pull up some microfische at the library to go back that far

 

 

😁

[Clevfan4life]

On 7/28/2018 at 10:26 PM, Flugel said:

Keep in mind, you're talking about Ogbah's backup (the 3rd best DE on an 0-16 team).  Just a week or 2 before Ogbah went on IR - PFF ranked him as the #1 rated DE against the run while he also led us in sacks.  Is that improvement or horrific coaching? 

Jamie Meder was the #2 rated DT against the run when he went on IR.  Again, horrific coaching or bad luck with injury?  Coley was also enjoying his best season.

Schobert moved to MLB and was tied for the most tackles in the NFL during a Pro Bowl year. Having said that, his pass defense responsibility was both inside hook zones while our rookie FS was lining up in Toronto every play to explain those challenges with zone transitions.

Coaches aren't miracle workers. 

1) this is why i hate pff, they're morons. Rating ogbah as even serviceable against the run was the same as ranking our offensive line as the best in football a few years back when they were greenlighting  primary edge rushers right into our qb and getting them killed. Pff has no idea how to properly analyze a football player. They're just fantasy league jackoffs that blow it out their asses in order to stimulate interest in players/teams for their fantasy leagues.

"Anubody" that played interior line defense or has any knowledge whatsoever about interior line play, could see ogbah losing outside leverage constantly and uncoincidentally teams ran to his side. Obviously the presence of collins on the other side had something to do with that, but u could see on every replay of a run that broke right...the LDE got his sht pinched.

The one thing nassib does better than ogbah is not letting blockers gain leverage on his outside shoulder. When collins got hurt some runs did stsrt to break myles way but even on a bad ankle garrett did better at keeping hiscarms extended and fighting upfield toward the developing point of attack. He still got his arms collapsed alot and tgats something i critisized him for. Cause Bosa was stout at the point from day one but myles was supposed to be this "once in a lifetime" freak....yet bosa has more sacks in 2 seasons than our entire front. 

2) developing players is almost job #1. I present william of house belichick as exhibit A. He's obviously not the only coach/team that gets players coached up to elite tgat werent necessarily blue chip coming out, but why is it that players get drafted by the browns and for the most part....what they are when drafted is what we get...why? As good as bosa was 1st year, he got even better the next. Thats alot to do with him obviously, but thats also chargers staff no question whatsoever.

Going back to the 4-3 and getting him back to his old position and skillset is on them, they adapted their scheme to fit their talent. How many years were we screaming at the browns to stop playing the 3-4 with 4-3 talent? Kruger and sheard standing up and trying to run downfield with rb's and slot wr's? that sht just doesnt happen anywhere else. Kruger and sheard might actually have made some major noise in the NFL if they werent stuck playing underweight and with their hands NOT in the dirt. We all remember feelibg pretty fukking good about sheard as our up and coming DE after his first year under Jauron. Then he goes to NE a few years later and has a mini renaissance in his skillset, go figure

Nassib was a solid player with VERY solid technique coming out of college. Leg strength was his issue being 6'7....the fact he hasnt really made improvements in his strength and power is on the staff. Other players come out of college with far less of a skillset yet made more strides than nassib has. This guy was big 10 dpoy, we should be getting better out of him. 

[The Gipper]

10 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

i prob have to.pull up some microfische at the library to go back that far

 

 

😁

No,  just get the Sporting News Guide to Pro Football....or the like.

You are beginning to start to sound like a Steeler fan:  "nothing in the world ever happened before I was born...or nothing ever happened in the world before 1970"    Seriously....lets not have our patrons on here...Browns fans anyway, start sounding as dumb as Steeler fans.  Please. I beg of you.