LeBron or Art

[kvozel]

 

[The Gipper]

You asking if we would choose?

There is no doubt, Modell is THE major scumbag in Cleveland history.

LeBron did not take the team with him.  Just himself.  

And FYI, I don't think it will be long at all before the Cavs are competitive.   They MAY even make the playoffs this year.  

Sure, no one ever may have been as good as LeBron.   But they have Love, TT

Here is their current roster:

Cleveland Cavaliers Roster

Not saying this is a great roster, but in the East it could be competitive.   You will have  Tristan and Love at the 4-5 (despite what it says here about both being centers).

Clarkson/Hill/Sexton could be a halfway decent PG combo initially.   I think Sexton could end up being as good or better than Kyrie.   Smith, Korver, Hood at Shooting Guard....can suffice for now.  Need for an upgrade?  Certainly, but they are veteran hands....who have played in a lot of postseasons.    Small Forward, the position that LeBron vacates is the big hole. Osman is the ONLY one on the roster.   I think some kind of acquisition may have to be made.

.....But, how about this:  does another local product, from Revere HS, have the ability to switch and to succeed at the SF spot?  Or is strictly a PF.  I mean Larry Nance Jr. He is the same height as LeBron....but not as heavy.

TEAM ROSTER
NO.	NAME	POS	AGE	HT	WT	COLLEGE	2017-2018 SALARY
8	Jordan Clarkson	PG	26	6-5	194	Missouri	$12,500,000
3	George Hill	PG	32	6-3	188	IUPUI	$19,000,000
1	Rodney Hood	SG	25	6-8	206	Duke
26	Kyle Korver	SG	37	6-7	212	Creighton	$7,560,000
0	Kevin Love	C	29	6-10	251	UCLA	$24,119,025
22	Larry Nance Jr.	PF	25	6-9	230	Wyoming	$2,272,391
16	Cedi Osman	SF	23	6-8	215		$2,775,000
21	Kendrick Perkins	C	33	6-10	270		$2,445,085
--	Collin Sexton	PG	19	6-2	183	Alabama
5	JR Smith	SG	32	6-6	225		$14,720,000
13	Tristan Thompson	C	27	6-9	238	Texas	$17,469,565
15	Okaro White	PF	25	6-8	215	Florida State	$1,544,951
41	Ante Zizic	PF	21	6-11	250		$1,952,760

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Cavs are going to really suck this coming year.  Bank it.

[The Gipper]

39 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Cavs are going to really suck this coming year.  Bank it.

Not as badly as you will  suck as a poster on this board, however 

[Richiswhere]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You asking if we would choose?

There is no doubt, Modell is THE major scumbag in Cleveland history.

LeBron did not take the team with him.  Just himself.  

And FYI, I don't think it will be long at all before the Cavs are competitive.   They MAY even make the playoffs this year.  

Sure, no one ever may have been as good as LeBron.   But they have Love, TT

Here is their current roster:

Cleveland Cavaliers Roster

Not saying this is a great roster, but in the East it could be competitive.   You will have  Tristan and Love at the 4-5 (despite what it says here about both being centers).

Clarkson/Hill/Sexton could be a halfway decent PG combo initially.   I think Sexton could end up being as good or better than Kyrie.   Smith, Korver, Hood at Shooting Guard....can suffice for now.  Need for an upgrade?  Certainly, but they are veteran hands....who have played in a lot of postseasons.    Small Forward, the position that LeBron vacates is the big hole. Osman is the ONLY one on the roster.   I think some kind of acquisition may have to be made.

.....But, how about this:  does another local product, from Revere HS, have the ability to switch and to succeed at the SF spot?  Or is strictly a PF.  I mean Larry Nance Jr. He is the same height as LeBron....but not as heavy.

TEAM ROSTER
NO.	NAME	POS	AGE	HT	WT	COLLEGE	2017-2018 SALARY
8	Jordan Clarkson	PG	26	6-5	194	Missouri	$12,500,000
3	George Hill	PG	32	6-3	188	IUPUI	$19,000,000
1	Rodney Hood	SG	25	6-8	206	Duke
26	Kyle Korver	SG	37	6-7	212	Creighton	$7,560,000
0	Kevin Love	C	29	6-10	251	UCLA	$24,119,025
22	Larry Nance Jr.	PF	25	6-9	230	Wyoming	$2,272,391
16	Cedi Osman	SF	23	6-8	215		$2,775,000
21	Kendrick Perkins	C	33	6-10	270		$2,445,085
--	Collin Sexton	PG	19	6-2	183	Alabama
5	JR Smith	SG	32	6-6	225		$14,720,000
13	Tristan Thompson	C	27	6-9	238	Texas	$17,469,565
15	Okaro White	PF	25	6-8	215	Florida State	$1,544,951
41	Ante Zizic	PF	21	6-11	250		$1,952,760

Stick to football......your absolutely Retarded when it comes to basketball

[Orion]

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

LeBron did not take the team with him.

There.  Question answered.  'nuf said

[Canton Mike]

You guys are omitting the INITIAL time Fartie Artie showed he was a scumbag.....January 7, 1963 when he fired Paul Brown.

Mike 

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Richiswhere said:

Stick to football......your absolutely Retarded when it comes to basketball

You are Retarded when it comes to life so stick to looking at your navel lint

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, Canton Mike said:

You guys are omitting the INITIAL time Fartie Artie showed he was a scumbag.....January 7, 1963 when he fired Paul Brown.

Mike 

The Browns don't win the '64 Championship with Paul Brown as head coach.

The Browns players were pretty adamant about that. 

[Canton Mike]

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The Browns don't win the '64 Championship with Paul Brown as head coach.

The Browns players were pretty adamant about that. 

But they DID win it with......

Players mostly taken & developed by Paul Brown & a HC (Blanton Collier) who was a Paul Brown Assistant Coach.

Whether or not Brown should have been fired is still open for debate, but my answer stands...That's when I started despising Art Modell.

Mike

[mjp28]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

The Browns don't win the '64 Championship with Paul Brown as head coach.

The Browns players were pretty adamant about that. 

Paul Brown the founder of modern professional football coaching.......and an arrogant dickhead.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now the Artful Dodger vs LeBron, no contest LeBron tried hard for 11 years and broke that seemingly 100 year drought for Cleveland winning any major sports title basically by himself. 

Art was a low life hustler.

[Momszer]

LeBron knew he was going to LA many moons ago and basically kept the Cavs in limbo by not informing them of such keeping them hostage with no options to improve the roster until he left. This should be otherwise known as the proverbial bitch slap to Mr. Gilbert's face. But Art still gets my vote and it's not even close.

[Dutch Oven]

10 hours ago, Canton Mike said:

But they DID win it with......

Players mostly taken & developed by Paul Brown & a HC (Blanton Collier) who was a Paul Brown Assistant Coach.

Whether or not Brown should have been fired is still open for debate, but my answer stands...That's when I started despising Art Modell.

Mike

Paul Brown was arguably the most important head coach in NFL history. Without a doubt, he had an ENORMOUS fingerprint on the '64 Browns team. 

But the Browns had hit the wall under Brown. They needed new blood.

Art Modell eventually turned the Browns into a mediocre franchise. The Browns record, post Blanton Collier to 1995 was basically .500... but he made the right move moving on from Brown.  

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, Momszer said:

LeBron knew he was going to LA many moons ago and basically kept the Cavs in limbo by not informing them of such keeping them hostage with no options to improve the roster until he left. This should be otherwise known as the proverbial bitch slap to Mr. Gilbert's face. But Art still gets my vote and it's not even close.

Amen brother to everything you wrote. 

[darubes]

Art and LBJ is not even in the running.

[Ghoolie]

Paul Brown? WTF does he have to do with this schidt?

Paul Browns would have been fired by everyone here. Art, the owner gets off of a plan, and is dumbfounded by reporters asking him his reasoning for trading Bobby Mitchel to get after Ernie Davis. That kind of insubordination gets you fired no matter who you are. The reality is, people hate Modell so no matter WTF PB did, people here will defend it. There is no objectivity here.

Jim Brown.................. not Art Modell.................. JIM BROWN was responsible for getting Paul Brown fired. Jim did not want Ernie Davis in the backfield. From that moment on, JB was against PB. PB did it to himself. Fukc Paul Brown, he spent more time as a Bengal than he did a Brown. Fukc him and Fukc his Bengals.................

INCIDENTALLY........................................................ If it wasn't for Art Modell............. PB would not have had the money or position to be awarded the Bengals. THAT WAS ALL MODELL.

 

Modell was a great man. He was a great owner and he loved the Browns. The city of Cleveland lost their fukcing team, that isn't on Modell. Cleveland is the land of the dumbest fukctards on Earth.

What does Modell have in common with LeBron? Without them, there is no winning in Cleveland.

Art Modell was a great man.

[Orion]

46 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

The city of Cleveland lost their fukcing team, that isn't on Modell.

This is the underlying truth.

The Browns had the worst friggin' stadium.  The league made the Browns use the visitors locker room because it was too small for an NFL team to have to use.  He may not always have been the greatest business man.  But the city gave Elvis, the Cav's and the Tribe a new stadium....none for him.  So he left (which is, of course, unforgivable).  The city was then told by the league, "If you wanna team, then build a new stadium".    So they DID!   Isn't the stadium great?!  No?!  

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Paul Brown? WTF does he have to do with this schidt?

Paul Browns would have been fired by everyone here. Art, the owner gets off of a plan, and is dumbfounded by reporters asking him his reasoning for trading Bobby Mitchel to get after Ernie Davis. That kind of insubordination gets you fired no matter who you are. The reality is, people hate Modell so no matter WTF PB did, people here will defend it. There is no objectivity here.

Jim Brown.................. not Art Modell.................. JIM BROWN was responsible for getting Paul Brown fired. Jim did not want Ernie Davis in the backfield. From that moment on, JB was against PB. PB did it to himself. Fukc Paul Brown, he spent more time as a Bengal than he did a Brown. Fukc him and Fukc his Bengals.................

INCIDENTALLY........................................................ If it wasn't for Art Modell............. PB would not have had the money or position to be awarded the Bengals. THAT WAS ALL MODELL.

 

Modell was a great man. He was a great owner and he loved the Browns. The city of Cleveland lost their fukcing team, that isn't on Modell. Cleveland is the land of the dumbest fukctards on Earth.

What does Modell have in common with LeBron? Without them, there is no winning in Cleveland.

Art Modell was a great man.

The only words that can be taken from this post are that there are some of the dumbest Shmuck Tarde's on earth posting on this board Gooley among the prime exhibitThe only words that can be taken from this post are that there are some of the dumbest Shmuck Tarde's on earth posting on this board Gooley among the prime exhibit

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

This is the underlying truth.

The Browns had the worst friggin' stadium.  The league made the Browns use the visitors locker room because it was too small for an NFL team to have to use.  He may not always have been the greatest business man.  But the city gave Elvis, the Cav's and the Tribe a new stadium....none for him.  So he left (which is, of course, unforgivable).  The city was then told by the league, "If you wanna team, then build a new stadium".    So they DID!   Isn't the stadium great?!  No?!  

The plans were a new stadium was already in place. model left because he wanted the Shmucking 75 million Shmucking dollars he was being bribed to go to Shmucking Baltimore plain simple and if you don't understand that you're stupid

[hoorta]

On 7/4/2018 at 7:46 PM, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Cavs are going to really suck this coming year.  Bank it.

 

On 7/4/2018 at 8:26 PM, The Gipper said:

Not as badly as you will  suck as a poster on this board, however 

Gip- the Cavs are almost going to be forced to tank.  Reason? Take it to the bank they want to keep their protected 2019 draft pick. Which they only get to keep if they're in the bottom 10, otherwise it goes to Atlanta as part of the Kyle Korver deal. 

They'll unload salary too, so don't be surprised if Love gets traded.   

Modell still tops LeBron though. It was long reported this time around the odds of him staying in Cleveland were remote. He's still good enough to get the Lakers to the playoffs, but his quest to play in another final anytime soon is out the window. No way in hell can the Lakers as currently constituted beat the Warriors, and probably not Houston or OKC either. Plus James will turn 34 the end of 2018, and you have to wonder how many years of top level performance he has left.   Wonder if he'll stick around long enough to take a shot at Kareem's points record. He's around 7,200 behind, and he'll need at least 4 years at his current production to catch him. 

Another thing going to the Lakers- unless he wins a Championship or two, he'll always be in the shadow of Magic and Kobe.  

 

[The Gipper]

 Larry like I said going to LA basically was LeBron's retirement announcement. Or shall we say semi retirement. He will continue to play but basketball will be only his sideline occupation to his Hollywood mogul business

[hoorta]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

The plans were a new stadium was already in place. model left because he wanted the Shmucking 75 million Shmucking dollars he was being bribed to go to Shmucking Baltimore plain simple and if you don't understand that you're stupid

And he was schmucking broke. and even with the $75 million bribe, (that Cleveland couldn't offer him to stay) he was forced to sell out because he couldn't even make interest payment on all the loans he had taken out. 

His honorable path would have been to sell out to Al Lerner, but nope, he wanted to keep being a Big Shot owner, and pass the team down to his kid. In the end, Art got exactly what he deserved. 

[mjp28]

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

And he was schmucking broke. and even with the $75 million bribe, (that Cleveland couldn't offer him to stay) he was forced to sell out because he couldn't even make interest payment on all the loans he had taken out. 

His honorable path would have been to sell out to Al Lerner, but nope, he wanted to keep being a Big Shot owner, and pass the team down to his kid. In the end, Art got exactly what he deserved. 

And without looking anything else up he paid about  $4 million for the BROWNS. 

This was fundamentally about FEDERAL ESTATE TAXES....

QUESTION : how could/would the Artful Tax Dodger pass the BROWNS down to his family now being worth hundreds of millions of dollars. 

ANSWER: A big sweetheart cash deal worth millions.

How sad for the people of Cleveland, Ohio.

[The Gipper]

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

And he was schmucking broke. and even with the $75 million bribe, (that Cleveland couldn't offer him to stay) he was forced to sell out because he couldn't even make interest payment on all the loans he had taken out. 

His honorable path would have been to sell out to Al Lerner, but nope, he wanted to keep being a Big Shot owner, and pass the team down to his kid. In the end, Art got exactly what he deserved. 

And now both are dead.  

Did the Modell family retain its like 1% interest in the Ravens?

[Canton Dawg]

14 hours ago, Orion said:

But the city gave Elvis, the Cav's and the Tribe a new stadium....none for him.  So he left (which is, of course, unforgivable).  The city was then told by the league, "If you wanna team, then build a new stadium".    So they DID!   Isn't the stadium great?!  No?!  

This isn't true, you may want to do some research into that statement.

[hoorta]

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

And now both are dead.  

Did the Modell family retain its like 1% interest in the Ravens?

Too many double Coronas for David. AFAIK, yes the Model family still retains a token percentage of the Ravens.

Regarding "Great Man" Art, you knew that it was just a matter of time before someone would have the chutzpah to piss on his grave and post it to YouTube. I'll bet it's been many more times without being publicized. Said when he died the family should have had him cremated.

[mjp28]

Raking that muck pile just one more time  

Super Bowl XXXVEdit

In 2000, the Ravens, under the coaching of Billick, qualified for the postseason for the first time, winning the AFC Wild-Card position with a 12–4 record. (Tennessee won their division that year.) Led by a stingy defense anchored by team captain and NFL All-Pro middle linebacker Ray Lewis, and quarterbacked by former Pro-Bowler Trent Dilfer, they would go on to defeat the NFC Champion New York Giants in the Super Bowl, 34–7. Shortly after the Super Bowl XXXV victory, Modell handed the reins of the day-to-day operations of the team over to his son, David. The Ravens qualified again for the postseason in 2001 as defending Super Bowl Champions, and once more in 2003, winning their first division title. The Ravens' regular season record during Modell's tenure as team owner stands at 72–63.

Community involvement in Baltimore areaEdit

Modell and his wife, former television actress Patricia Breslin, donated millions of dollars to a variety of charities, most notably the SEED School, a boarding school being developed in Baltimore for disadvantaged youth; Johns Hopkins Hospital; Kennedy Krieger Institute; St. Vincent's Center, a home for abused children; and the House of Ruth, a domestic violence center. Modell received the Generous Heart Award from the Dr. Ben Carson Scholarship Foundation, given annually for excellence in the community.

Ravens sold to minority owner BisciottiEdit

Despite a no-cost stadium lease, all revenues from parking, concessions, and TV, as well as a reported $25M per year Maryland subsidy, Modell's ownership of the Ravens resulted in continual financial hardships for the team. In late 2002 the NFL took an unusual step and directed Modell to sell his franchise, and in 2003, Modell sold the Ravens to minority owner, Maryland businessman Steve Bisciotti. Under the deal, Modell retained a small interest (approximately 1% share) upon the team's sale as a legal maneuver to avoid a claim by the Andrews trust, which was controlled by family of a former business adviser who sought to collect an estimated $30 million finder's fee upon Modell's sale of the team. The Andrews trust essentially claimed that under a 1963 agreement, Modell owed a finder's fee for his original purchase of the team which was to be paid when Modell sold his entire interest. In July 2005, Modell prevailed in court and defeated the Andrews trust's claim. At the time of sale the franchise's worth was estimated at approximately US$600 million.<-----and other tax ramifications! 

Soon after Modell moved the franchise to Baltimore in 1996, he had sold a small minority interest to Bisciotti. After owning the NFL franchise for 44 seasons, Modell sold controlling interest of the team to Bisciotti, citing ill health. However, Bisciotti had the option to buy the team fully in right (approximately 99%) until March 2004, this upon becoming a minority owner (about 45%) outright in 1999. Bisciotti exercised his purchase option in January 2004. Modell retained his 1% share and an office at the Ravens' headquarters in Owings Mills, Maryland as a team consultant.^[10]

[The Gipper]

So, the Modell family owns about as much of the Ravens as any citizen of Green Bay owns of the Packers.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

So, the Modell family owns about as much of the Ravens as any citizen of Green Bay owns of the Packers.

They'd have to be very wealthy Packer shareholders Gip.  IIRC most GB fans only own a share (or two) and have them proudly framed on the wall. LOL, you bad at math? 1% of $600 million is still $6 million. BTW, that was an old article, Forbes put the current value of the Ravens at $1.9 billion. So make that $19 million for the Modell family. I could live on that fer sure.  

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, hoorta said:

They'd have to be very wealthy Packer shareholders Gip.  IIRC most GB fans only own a share (or two) and have them proudly framed on the wall. LOL, you bad at math? 1% of $600 million is still $6 million. BTW, that was an old article, Forbes put the current value of the Ravens at $1.9 billion. So make that $19 million for the Modell family. I could live on that fer sure.  

OK....so, maybe you know this:   How many shares of Green Bay Packer stock have been issued to the people of Green Bay......and what would each stock certificate be valued at?