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Steelers writer Ed Bouchette

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5 hours ago, Zombo said:

By getting him to two Super Bowls and putting him in offense that maximizes his skills surrounded by playmakers?

Zombo

Tomlin is a fvcking jackass. Haley was his scapegoat.

One trophy with a first ballot HOF QB. Harbawl has that many with Flacco.

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9 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Tomlin is a fvcking jackass. Haley was his scapegoat.

One trophy with a first ballot HOF QB. Harbawl has that many with Flacco.

OK, so, he's 116-60. Two Super Bowls, One ring. 8-7 in the postseason.

Poor Ben has been stuck in a Top Ten offense four straight years, Top five passing game past three years.

Tomlin has made the playoffs eight times in eleven years, never had a losing season.

He is 5th in active coaches in wins, He is second to active coaches in winning percentage , trailing only Belichick.

But he's a jackass.

Hope Hugh Jackson turns into a jackass.

Zombo

 

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2 hours ago, Zombo said:

OK, so, he's 116-60. Two Super Bowls, One ring. 8-7 in the postseason.

Poor Ben has been stuck in a Top Ten offense four straight years, Top five passing game past three years.

Tomlin has made the playoffs eight times in eleven years, never had a losing season.

He is 5th in active coaches in wins, He is second to active coaches in winning percentage , trailing only Belichick.

But he's a jackass.

Hope Hugh Jackson turns into a jackass.

Zombo

 

Right, I will take that kind of jackass.   I mean, it is true that a winning coach CAN be a jackass....see Bill Belichick,  and it helps that he has an HOF caliber QB.  That always helps., but it is only a part of it.

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Hopefully for us old, old boomer browns boosters big Ben will finally crack up some this year. L. Bell doesn't have a stellar year and most importantly my FL WR A. Brown who is instant offense continues to show his age and injuries......I know a guy who can rack up 30-40 FL points sits out your replacement gets 12-14 you lose!

The steelrz didn't exactly anililate the BROWNS  last year despite everything the BROWNS could have stole one easily.

So Santa now you know what we want for Christmas, you can start delivering in September.  :D

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5 hours ago, Zombo said:

OK, so, he's 116-60. Two Super Bowls, One ring. 8-7 in the postseason.

Poor Ben has been stuck in a Top Ten offense four straight years, Top five passing game past three years.

Tomlin has made the playoffs eight times in eleven years, never had a losing season.

He is 5th in active coaches in wins, He is second to active coaches in winning percentage , trailing only Belichick.

But he's a jackass.

Hope Hugh Jackson turns into a jackass.

Zombo

 

8 - 7 in the post season sucks with a 1st ballot HOF QB. Tomlin is hanging by a thread to stay above .500.

3 years out of 11 missed the post season

4 years out of 11 lost in the 1st round.

7 years or 63% of Tomlins post season career amount to 0 post season wins.

1 year lost Divisional round

1 year lost AFC Championship.

2 AFC Championships wins

Tomlin is 66% in AFC Championships.

1 Super Bowl loss

1 Super Bowl win.

Tomlin is .500 in Super Bowls

Bens passing numbers improved because of Haley. The Steelers GM keeps going out there and finding stud players for Ben. Tomlins job is to convert all that into Lombardi trophies something that he has failed to do 10 times out of 11.

No, you do not want Hue to be like Tomlin and Sheet the bed every season. Trust me on that. Making the playoffs gets old losing every damn year.

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yeah, gets so old. making those playoffs every year. what fan base wants their team playing meaninful games in january, fuk my as-ss running eh? i mean the curling season is in full swing by then, who needs football hanging around as a distraction?

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6 hours ago, boo fagley said:

8 - 7 in the post season sucks with a 1st ballot HOF QB. Tomlin is hanging by a thread to stay above .500.

3 years out of 11 missed the post season

4 years out of 11 lost in the 1st round.

7 years or 63% of Tomlins post season career amount to 0 post season wins.

1 year lost Divisional round

1 year lost AFC Championship.

2 AFC Championships wins

Tomlin is 66% in AFC Championships.

1 Super Bowl loss

1 Super Bowl win.

Tomlin is .500 in Super Bowls

Bens passing numbers improved because of Haley. The Steelers GM keeps going out there and finding stud players for Ben. Tomlins job is to convert all that into Lombardi trophies something that he has failed to do 10 times out of 11.

No, you do not want Hue to be like Tomlin and Sheet the bed every season. Trust me on that. Making the playoffs gets old losing every damn year.

It's not easy to be above .500 in the postseason.

Coach's get measured by wins and losses. Tomlin has a better win pct than 30 of the other 31 coaches... but that's not good enough for you.

Apparently Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy blow too, because they only have one championship with a HOF QB too.

I guess if you're not Belichick ... you blow.

Z

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39 minutes ago, Zombo said:

It's not easy to be above .500 in the postseason.

Coach's get measured by wins and losses. Tomlin has a better win pct than 30 of the other 31 coaches... but that's not good enough for you.

Apparently Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy blow too, because they only have one championship with a HOF QB too.

I guess if you're not Belichick ... you blow.

Z

The great coaches and franchises are measured by Championships. 

If Bens goes out with only 1 ring it will be a travesty. Same for Brees and Rodgers. Those kind of QBs come around once in a lifetime. The Saints landed in serious cap trouble after winning their Super Bowl and had to jettison good players, but they are back.

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4 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

The great coaches and franchises are measured by Championships. 

If Bens goes out with only 1 ring it will be a travesty. Same for Brees and Rodgers. Those kind of QBs come around once in a lifetime. The Saints landed in serious cap trouble after winning their Super Bowl and had to jettison good players, but they are back.

They're back ... Tomlin's Steelers never left.

Just because you have a Hall of Fame QB doesnt mean you have to win multiple championships.

I am no Steeler fan. Not making an argument that Mike Tomlin is a HOF coach or anything ... Just saying hes NOT a jackass holding Ben's career back.

Shula, a proven champion and one of the greatest coaches of all time never won a SB with Dan Marino one of the greatest QBs of all time.

Bud Grant ... Fran Tarkenton.

Don Coryell ... Dan Fouts

All Jackasses.

The guy's been to two Super Bowls and wins every year and you're bitching .... We're just trying to win a football game.

Z

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13 hours ago, boo fagley said:

The great coaches and franchises are measured by Championships. 

If Bens goes out with only 1 ring it will be a travesty. Same for Brees and Rodgers. Those kind of QBs come around once in a lifetime. The Saints landed in serious cap trouble after winning their Super Bowl and had to jettison good players, but they are back.

FYI Ben or already has two rings.  (I wager he gets no more)

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9 hours ago, Zombo said:

They're back ... Tomlin's Steelers never left.

Just because you have a Hall of Fame QB doesnt mean you have to win multiple championships.

I am no Steeler fan. Not making an argument that Mike Tomlin is a HOF coach or anything ... Just saying hes NOT a jackass holding Ben's career back.

Shula, a proven champion and one of the greatest coaches of all time never won a SB with Dan Marino one of the greatest QBs of all time.

Bud Grant ... Fran Tarkenton.

Don Coryell ... Dan Fouts

All Jackasses.

The guy's been to two Super Bowls and wins every year and you're bitching .... We're just trying to win a football game.

Z

Im no Steelers fan, but I can recognize who is screwing things up and its not Ben. Love him or hate him the Ben makes plays out of nothing. The least of the Steelers problems is the QB which is the most important player on the team. Without one, you're not winning jack sheet. Dont take it from me that Tomlin is an idiot, Terry Bradshaw has no faith him and calls him a glorified cheerleader. Do you see a great defensive guru over there on the Steelers sidelines or playcalling genius? Because I dont and only see a guy who sticks his jaw out and talks tough like he is a badass. When you are not ready at your own house for the Jacksonville Jaguars last post season that is on the head coach. 

If Haley was not offered up as the sacrificial lamb then the powers that be wanted Tomlin out. Why? Because they have a Super Bowl team and cant win a damn post season game. 7 times its happened.

You wont understand that anything short of a world championship is failure until the Browns win the first Super Bowl and have the team to do it. After you fly 1st class just having a seat on the plane is not good enough. Winning in the regular season is meaningless for a handful of teams like Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Saints, Cowboys, Ohio State, Alabama.

 

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9 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I am just FYI Ben or already has two rings

Youre right Atty

Forgot the one with Cowher. But it underscores that Cowher left Tomlin a Super Bowl team. Cowher never had a QB until Ben showed up. Bens rookie year they made to the AFCC. The next year they won the Super Bowl. One does not need to suspend disbelief to think that if Cowher didnt retire that he would win the Super Bowl again with Ben. 

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1 hour ago, boo fagley said:

Im no Steelers fan, but I can recognize who is screwing things up and its not Ben. Love him or hate him the Ben makes plays out of nothing. The least of the Steelers problems is the QB which is the most important player on the team. Without one, you're not winning jack sheet. Dont take it from me that Tomlin is an idiot, Terry Bradshaw has no faith him and calls him a glorified cheerleader. Do you see a great defensive guru over there on the Steelers sidelines or playcalling genius? Because I dont and only see a guy who sticks his jaw out and talks tough like he is a badass. When you are not ready at your own house for the Jacksonville Jaguars last post season that is on the head coach. 

If Haley was not offered up as the sacrificial lamb then the powers that be wanted Tomlin out. Why? Because they have a Super Bowl team and cant win a damn post season game. 7 times its happened.

You wont understand that anything short of a world championship is failure until the Browns win the first Super Bowl and have the team to do it. After you fly 1st class just having a seat on the plane is not good enough. Winning in the regular season is meaningless for a handful of teams like Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Saints, Cowboys, Ohio State, Alabama.

 

There it is ... the old "you don't understand what winning is about because you're a Browns fan" argument ... the stupidest of them all.

I'm a huge sports fan, a Huge NFL fan for 50 of my 54 years, and I'm pretty sure I get it.

I also get that the "How many rings" argument is not the end all/be all argument in sports, it is just a way for lazy people to try an end an argument.

This whole "ring is the only thing" argument covers QBs as well as coaches, no?

So then Ben has the same postseason record as Tomlin in the past 13 years and has lost seven times in the playoffs too, and all the other stats you quote above ... they go for QBs too, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ben have two turnovers in the first half to help his team get in a 28-7 hole to Jacksonville?

You act like Ben should have a mantle full of Championships because he is a HOF QB.

I think he's playing with House Money with 3 SBs and two rings. No one is holding him back from further greatness other than ... Tom Brady.

Ben is not on Tom Brady level. He is not on Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers or  the retired Peyton Manning level either ... he has always been on the next notch below that.

Nothing wrong with that, he has had a great career, but to say he deserves more rings and his coach holds him back is ludicrous.

He has never been first team All-Pro or NFL MVP.

He has never been the very best at his position, he is usually somewhere between 5th and 9th.

He's played 14 seasons, he was named to the Pro Bowl 6 times ... as a backup.

He's very good. And he should be thankful that he has been on good teams with good defenses, good running games and good weapons..

You could make an argument that maybe Peyton Manning should have won more championships, and maybe Eli Manning should have won less. But Ben feels about right at two wins in three appearances. Let's face it, the first one, his job was to just not fuck it up. The two he got to under Tomlin he deserved ... they both deserved.

I'm just a simple Browns fan, but I'm pretty sure if the ring argument applies to Tomlin, it applies to Ben.

Poor Ben, stuck with the second winningest coach in the NFL. He must be so jealous of his draft classmate Phillip Rivers (More Tds, higher comp. %, higher passer rating, more Pro Bowls, less talent around him, coaching carousel ... no rings)

Zombo

 

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26 minutes ago, Zombo said:

There it is ... the old "you don't understand what winning is about because you're a Browns fan" argument ... the stupidest of them all.

I'm a huge sports fan, a Huge NFL fan for 50 of my 54 years, and I'm pretty sure I get it.

I also get that the "How many rings" argument is not the end all/be all argument in sports, it is just a way for lazy people to try an end an argument.

This whole "ring is the only thing" argument covers QBs as well as coaches, no?

So then Ben has the same postseason record as Tomlin in the past 13 years and has lost seven times in the playoffs too, and all the other stats you quote above ... they go for QBs too, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ben have two turnovers in the first half to help his team get in a 28-7 hole to Jacksonville?

You act like Ben should have a mantle full of Championships because he is a HOF QB.

I think he's playing with House Money with 3 SBs and two rings. No one is holding him back from further greatness other than ... Tom Brady.

Ben is not on Tom Brady level. He is not on Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers or  the retired Peyton Manning level either ... he has always been on the next notch below that.

Nothing wrong with that, he has had a great career, but to say he deserves more rings and his coach holds him back is ludicrous.

He has never been first team All-Pro or NFL MVP.

He has never been the very best at his position, he is usually somewhere between 5th and 9th.

He's played 14 seasons, he was named to the Pro Bowl 6 times ... as a backup.

He's very good. And he should be thankful that he has been on good teams with good defenses, good running games and good weapons..

You could make an argument that maybe Peyton Manning should have won more championships, and maybe Eli Manning should have won less. But Ben feels about right at two wins in three appearances. Let's face it, the first one, his job was to just not Shmuck it up. The two he got to under Tomlin he deserved ... they both deserved.

I'm just a simple Browns fan, but I'm pretty sure if the ring argument applies to Tomlin, it applies to Ben.

Poor Ben, stuck with the second winningest coach in the NFL. He must be so jealous of his draft classmate Phillip Rivers (More Tds, higher comp. %, higher passer rating, more Pro Bowls, less talent around him, coaching carousel ... no rings)

Zombo

 

First off, I was not using the fact that because of the Browns that you would not know about winning. The Browns 7 Championships belies my point. The Browns are revered as one of the great dynasties in football history. You strive to be the best. Ghoolie has it right. Fvck all silver lining BS after you fall on your face. I am not here to insult anyone for loving their football team. 

Second, I am not lazy or trying to end any argument. I am not backing down about Tomlin. His butt will be gone if the Steelers do not at least make it to the Super Bowl. Tomlins teams are undisciplined. Antonio Brown should have never recorded Tomlins dumbass post game speech that "We got something for that Patriots butt"

Ben should have more than 1 trophy with Tomlin. Talk to any Steeler fan and ask them yourself. I have been to Pittsburgh the past 2 years and they are not happy campers just because they won another Division banner. The post Ben narrative will be that he could have won more Championships. Brady is lucky to play for the GOAT in Belichick.

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6 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

First off, I was not using the fact that because of the Browns that you would not know about winning. The Browns 7 Championships belies my point. The Browns are revered as one of the great dynasties in football history. You strive to be the best. Ghoolie has it right. Fvck all silver lining BS after you fall on your face. I am not here to insult anyone for loving their football team. 

Second, I am not lazy or trying to end any argument. I am not backing down about Tomlin. His butt will be gone if the Steelers do not at least make it to the Super Bowl. Tomlins teams are undisciplined. Antonio Brown should have never recorded Tomlins dumbass post game speech that "We got something for that Patriots butt"

Ben should have more than 1 trophy with Tomlin. Talk to any Steeler fan and ask them yourself. I have been to Pittsburgh the past 2 years and they are not happy campers just because they won another Division banner. The post Ben narrative will be that he could have won more Championships. Brady is lucky to play for the GOAT in Belichick.

I am deeper into Steeler land than you will ever know.

I know how they feel. I know how they bitch about Tomlin. They're idiots.

Belichick is pretty fortunate to have Brady as well.

Zombo

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3 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Youre right Atty

Forgot the one with Cowher. But it underscores that Cowher left Tomlin a Super Bowl team. Cowher never had a QB until Ben showed up. Bens rookie year they made to the AFCC. The next year they won the Super Bowl. One does not need to suspend disbelief to think that if Cowher didnt retire that he would win the Super Bowl again with Ben. 

List of QBs who have won 2 or more titles:

Champion Quarterbacks listed by number of wins, then year
Rank Quarterback Team NFL Season Total
Championships
NFL Champs Super Bowls
1 Bart Starr Packers 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967 1966, 1967 (pre 1970) 5
Tom Brady Patriots   2001, 2003, 2004, 2014, 2016
3 Sid Luckman*† Bears 1940, 1941, 1943, 1946   4
Terry Bradshaw Steelers   1974, 1975, 1978, 1979
Joe Montana 49ers   1981, 1984, 1988, 1989
6 Otto Graham Browns 1950, 1954, 1955   3
Johnny Unitas Colts 1958, 1959 1970
Len Dawson Dallas Texans
Chiefs
AFL 1962, 1966, 1969 1969 (pre 1970)
Troy Aikman Cowboys   1992, 1993, 1995
10 Ed Danowski* Giants 1934, 1938   2
Arnie Herber *† Packers 1936, 1939  
Sammy Baugh *† Redskins 1937, 1942  
Bob Waterfield*† Rams 1945, 1951  
Tommy Thompson* Eagles 1948, 1949  
Bobby Layne Lions 1952, 1953  
Tobin Rote ^ Lions 1957  
Chargers AFL 1963  
George Blanda Oilers AFL 1960, 1961  
Jack Kemp Bills AFL 1964, 1965  
Roger Staubach Cowboys   1971, 1977
Bob Griese Dolphins   1972, 1973
Jim Plunkett Raiders   1980, 1983
John Elway Broncos   1997, 1998
Ben Roethlisberger Steelers   2005, 2008
Peyton Manning ^ Colts   2006
Broncos   2015
Eli Manning Giants   2007, 2011

 

Of course there is a major error in this list:   Otto Graham has 7, not 3.

Plus, they give Dawson 3...because he won an AFL title....but lost a Super Bowl that year.   I don't think that counts at all. Yes, Kemp and Blanda's two each count....because they won their titles and that was the end of it.  Dawson lost that Super Bowl...so that is not a title in my view.

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Note in the above post that there are only  5 QBs who have won  2 Championships who are not in the HOF:

Ed Danowski

Tommy Thompson

Tobin Rote

Jack Kemp

Jim Plunkett

Should any of these be put into the HOF?

(Brady, Peyton/Eli not in....Brady and Peyton shoe ins to go......what about Eli?  

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1 hour ago, boo fagley said:

First off, I was not using the fact that because of the Browns that you would not know about winning. The Browns 7 Championships belies my point.

The Browns have 8 Championships, not 7.

 

The Browns are revered as one of the great dynasties in football history. You strive to be the best. Ghoolie has it right. Fvck all silver lining BS after you fall on your face. I am not here to insult anyone for loving their football team. 

Second, I am not lazy or trying to end any argument. I am not backing down about Tomlin. His butt will be gone if the Steelers do not at least make it to the Super Bowl. Tomlins teams are undisciplined. Antonio Brown should have never recorded Tomlins dumbass post game speech that "We got something for that Patriots butt"

Ben should have more than 1 trophy with Tomlin.

Why?  When the other teams they played were better.  They were better.  I do NOT think that the Steelers should have more titles.   I think they are lucky and privileged to have gotten the two they got.  The Seahawks should have beat them....but for the referring basically giving the Steelers that game.  The Cardinals should have beat them.  Steelers got lucky on that 100 yard return for a TD by Harrison that should never have happened.  And it took a miracle last second catch by Santonio Holmes.  By rights, the Steelers should have lost both those games...but luck, as usual, was to their advantage.  And I don't know of ANY AFC title game that they did not win that they should have, not really.

Talk to any Steeler fan and ask them yourself. I have been to Pittsburgh the past 2 years and they are not happy campers just because they won another Division banner. The post Ben narrative will be that he could have won more Championships. Brady is lucky to play for the GOAT in Belichick.

NO, BB is lucky to have the GOAT Brady play for him.   And if Steeler fans are not happy campers, wait til Ben goes down or retires, and their losing ways start to set in.  F-U-C-K Steeler fans if any of them think they way.   They got two recent very lucky SB wins.  If they think they should have more, they are effing delusional...as you may be.

 

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1 hour ago, Zombo said:

I am deeper into Steeler land than you will ever know.

I know how they feel. I know how they bitch about Tomlin. They're idiots.  Check

Belichick is pretty fortunate to have Brady as well.  And Check

Zombo

 

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Trust me on that. Making the playoffs gets old losing every damn year.

What is this supposed to mean?  That you would rather not go to the playoffs than to go to the playoffs and lose all the time?   What kind of stupidity is this?

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Note:  here are all the other QBs credited with winning at least one title:

Carl Brumbaugh* Bears 1933   1
Glenn Presnell* Lions 1935  
Irv Comp * Packers 1944  
Paul Christman * Cardinals 1947  
Don Heinrich Giants 1956  
Norm Van Brocklin Eagles 1960  
Bill Wade Bears 1963  
Frank Ryan Browns 1964  
Daryle Lamonica Raiders AFL 1967  
Earl Morrall Colts 1968  
Joe Namath Jets AFL 1968 1968 (pre 1970)
Joe Kapp Vikings 1969  
Ken Stabler Raiders   1976
Joe Theismann Redskins   1982
Jim McMahon Bears   1985
Phil Simms Giants   1986
Doug Williams Redskins   1987
Jeff Hostetler Giants   1990
Mark Rypien Redskins   1991
Steve Young 49ers   1994
Brett Favre Packers   1996
Kurt Warner Rams   1999
Trent Dilfer Ravens   2000
Brad Johnson Buccaneers   2002
Drew Brees Saints   2009
Aaron Rodgers Packers   2010
Joe Flacco Ravens   2012
Russell Wilson Seahawks   2013
Nick Foles Eagles   2017

 

Again, to me, the Lamonica, Earl Morrall and Joe Kapp listed titles are erroneous as they went on to lose the Super Bowl.  It would be like saying the winner of one of the Conf. title games deserves to be credited with a title. 

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Shows how tough it is to win the one title a year even in the small league size eras.

And sometimes the team's stability of ownership and overall reputation for winning can count a LOT for repeated success.

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2 hours ago, Zombo said:

I am deeper into Steeler land than you will ever know.

I know how they feel. I know how they bitch about Tomlin. They're idiots.

Belichick is pretty fortunate to have Brady as well.

Zombo

I thought you were in Tampa.

The Steelers last Super Bowl trophy was 2008. The second year after Cowher handed Tomlin a Super Bowl contender. 

Look at it this way. If it was only about winning games and not Championships then Andy Reid will still be in Philly. The Eagles like the Steelers had some great teams that Reid failed to do anything with either. So, they shipped his a$$ out of town and next think you know they are SB Champs. Already talking about another run at it with Wentz. BTW, Reid is about to wear his welcome out in KC too. The city has grown tired of just winning games and being in the Super Bowl conversation.

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44 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Trust me on that. Making the playoffs gets old losing every damn year.

What is this supposed to mean?  That you would rather not go to the playoffs than to go to the playoffs and lose all the time?   What kind of stupidity is this?

No, Judge Judy I would not like to be like your Ohio brethren in Cincinnati.

I would rather have a higher draft slot to rebuild and make a run all the way to the Super Bowl. Do you like 2nd place or worse all the time? 

 

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2 hours ago, Furious Styles said:

How would you know ?

Easy

Brady had a 10 year drought. Losing the Super Bowl is worse than not going at all. The 31st team to draft is all you get.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

 

You make my point that after Ben leaves, Steelers fans will really be unhappy. Everyone knows that they should be winning Lombardis now.

Thank you for your input.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

 

You are recused from commenting on how many Titles the Steelers should have because of bias.

We will get back to you.

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