OTA's = Joke

[hoorta]

Seriously, any wonder why teams look like crap the first few weeks of the season when "practices" are reduced to backyard pitch and catch because of injury concerns?   Unless there was a lot more going on that the team didn't want the outside world to see, but this has to be as vanilla as it could be, other teams would get zero intel out of it. 

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/ContentGallery/Highlights-from-Day-Two-of-Browns-offseason-training-activities--118471471/#118471471_1

[TexasAg1969]

However it's the hopeful signs I look for in the interviews, like Peppers talking about the changes in the secondary that verify the speed being there this coming season. And the addition of "ball hawks". Fun interview to listen to.

 

[gumby73]

Pluto.Day 2 OTA's. it's "on paper" season..  https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/05/cleveland_browns_ota_scribbles.html#incart_river_index  

[Ghoolie]

C'mon man. It's early. Le's at least get to game #1 before the injuries kill us.

 

[jiggins7919]

Yeah, training camp is always the big "injury scare" time of the year. You're almost just waiting to hear bad news about SOMETHING, but right now things are good, as they should be this time of the season. Myles Garrett is in the best shape of his life (scary), Josh Gordon gets to participate in the installation of the offense, we DON'T have a QB competition, and really the only position up for grabs is the LT vacancy left by Joe. We have solid starters, we're working on depth, and you can finally begin to see some talent across the roster. Now, we definitely need our 2nd year players to make that leap, but I expect them to do just that. 

Yeah, OTA's are a joke in some regards, but they're also important when you have a new OC, and two new starting receivers (Josh is basically new). Josh and Jarvis (as well as other receivers) need as much time as possible to work with their new QB and OC. How does the offense look with Josh, Corey, Jarvis, Njoku, and Hyde/Duke/Chubb? Where can we stress the defense? How can we utilize strengths? That's the type of stuff OTA's is good for. If you're curious about how well the defensive line is penetrating, or how the linebackers are tackling...you'll be disappointed. 

[Orion]

6 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Yeah, OTA's are a joke in some regards, but they're also important when you have a new OC, and.....

Of which we ALWAYS seem to be installing a new offense...or new defense...or both.

The key is to get where you're keeping the same staff in place...and many of the same players...continuity.  It's much easier to relearn the old system with these limited workouts of today...but quite difficult to keep having to learn a new one.

[jiggins7919]

Truer words were never spoken. That's another reason why this year is so important. We HAVE to get some wins in order to keep our coaches. It's why the beginning of our schedule is so damning...we need wins and need the early. 

[Canton Mike]

On 5/28/2018 at 6:43 PM, Orion said:

Of which we ALWAYS seem to be installing a new offense...or new defense...or both.

The key is to get where you're keeping the same staff in place...and many of the same players...continuity.  It's much easier to relearn the old system with these limited workouts of today...but quite difficult to keep having to learn a new one.

We have finally compiled some talent. Any coaching staff is only as good as the talent they have to work with, so now let's go about building & KEEPING systems in which these players can learn & grow, not a different system every year.

Mike

[Orion]

21 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

We have finally compiled some talent. Any coaching staff is only as good as the talent they have to work with, so now let's go about building & KEEPING systems in which these players can learn & grow, not a different system every year.

Mike

In order for that to happen, success, of some meaningful sort, will have to be seen.  WINS.

Greg Williams 'might' be a good D-coordinator to keep.  He was given players this offseason so that he doesn't have to play that crazy 4-3-3--------------------------1 defense anymore.  This will be a season to evaluate him as the head of the D.

Todd Haley replaces Hue as OC...with basically HIS offense.  Hue's offense produced 1 win in 32 games.  His offense did not play to the strengths of his players.  He was forcing his square pegs into round holes.  A rather low bar for Todd it would seem....but we're actually looking for some substantial improvement from the offense.

There IS hope.  Both coordinators are relatively highly regarded.  (unless you ask Big Ben of Pittsburgh, who last year was threatening retirement but now that Haley's gone he thinks he can play SEVERAL more years). 

[Canton Mike]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

In order for that to happen, success, of some meaningful sort, will have to be seen.  WINS.

Greg Williams 'might' be a good D-coordinator to keep.  He was given players this offseason so that he doesn't have to play that crazy 4-3-3--------------------------1 defense anymore.  This will be a season to evaluate him as the head of the D.

Todd Haley replaces Hue as OC...with basically HIS offense.  Hue's offense produced 1 win in 32 games.  His offense did not play to the strengths of his players.  He was forcing his square pegs into round holes.  A rather low bar for Todd it would seem....but we're actually looking for some substantial improvement from the offense.

There IS hope.  Both coordinators are relatively highly regarded.  (unless you ask Big Ben of Pittsburgh, who last year was threatening retirement but now that Haley's gone he thinks he can play SEVERAL more years). 

For what it's worth, big Ben's production was at it's consistent best under Haley.

Mike

[Dutch Oven]

12 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

For what it's worth, big Ben's production was at it's consistent best under Haley.

Mike

While Bruce Arian's offense, while productive, tended to nearly get his QBs killed. 

[jiggins7919]

12 hours ago, Orion said:

In order for that to happen, success, of some meaningful sort, will have to be seen.  WINS.

Greg Williams 'might' be a good D-coordinator to keep.  He was given players this offseason so that he doesn't have to play that crazy 4-3-3--------------------------1 defense anymore.  This will be a season to evaluate him as the head of the D.

Todd Haley replaces Hue as OC...with basically HIS offense.  Hue's offense produced 1 win in 32 games.  His offense did not play to the strengths of his players.  He was forcing his square pegs into round holes.  A rather low bar for Todd it would seem....but we're actually looking for some substantial improvement from the offense.

There IS hope.  Both coordinators are relatively highly regarded.  (unless you ask Big Ben of Pittsburgh, who last year was threatening retirement but now that Haley's gone he thinks he can play SEVERAL more years). 

 

Everyone knows I'm a foolish optimist, but I have to agree.  There IS hope.  Now, we obviously have to temper down any foolish expectations, but I don't think it's a stretch to say we're going to be "competitive".  After losing EVERY SINGLE GAME, that could be quite an accomplishment, no?  Now, what does "competitive" mean?  That probably differs for everyone, but to me, it means we win 5-7 games, barely lose a few others, and you can start to see what we're missing and how adding just the right few pieces will boost us over the edge.  It's something we haven't had in a very long time.  Of course, much of everything has to do with Baker Mayfield, and it's difficult to gauge this year because I'm not really sure how much we're going to see him.  Suppose Tyrod Taylor plays 12 games and goes like 4-8.  We're out of contention so we figure it's better to give Baker some experience.  If Baker stinks it up, like most rookies do their first year...we could very easily take multiple steps BACK in 2019.  However, I'm getting ahead of myself.  For now, we have weapons and established coordinators.  I'm excited to see what our team LOOKS LIKE, and that's fun to honestly say.  

[sisky fringo]

practicing in shorts is good for muscle memory and mental reps, but it won't tell you if what you are planning on paper will work in 2018...in addition to injuries and general wear and tear.

actual game experience is what the team needs. OTA's are a joke. teams grow the most on Sundays.

 

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouf" - Mike Tyson

[Orion]

9 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Suppose Tyrod Taylor plays 12 games and goes like 4-8.  We're out of contention so we figure it's better to give Baker some experience.  If Baker stinks it up, like most rookies do their first year...we could very easily take multiple steps BACK in 2019. 

The Rams didn't take any steps backwards the year after Goff played like the rookie he was towards the end of HIS rookie season....

[gumby73]

  From today's OTA Practice..Lake Friday..

[gumby73]

Update from Planet Pluto..  signs of hope.bring on the pads.  https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/06/cleveland_browns_talkin_hope_t.html#incart_river_index   

[Flugel]

On 5/29/2018 at 8:03 PM, Orion said:

There IS hope.  Both coordinators are relatively highly regarded.  (unless you ask Big Ben of Pittsburgh, who last year was threatening retirement but now that Haley's gone he thinks he can play SEVERAL more years). 

I never heard Ben Rapen wanted to play several more years until after Pittsburgh drafted Mason Rudolph following all menstrual announcements that he wants to retire.  I did hear him say late last season that he planned on playing a few more years. Haley was still there fwiw.

One of the reasons Haley is highly regarded is from what his Superbowl QB (Kurt Warner) has to say about him. 

What I'm seeing coming out of Pittsburgh is Piss Poor Leadership from Tomlin with a trickle down effect to find the scapegoat.  When you lose a playoff game 45-42 - the problem isn't your OC. 

In fact, wasn't Tomlin hired as a Defensive minded HC from a previous gig as a Secondary Coach?  Pittsburgh weakest side of the ball was its defense with Secondary as their weakest link in 2017. If someone taught/reminded Shazier how to use his shoulder pads instead of his helmet all of the time - he might even be still playing.  It only made sense Tomlin desperately needed to have Todd Haley get all the credit for his dishonest evaluation while his offense enjoyed the most productive RB and WR over the last 4-5 years. Tomlin also scapegoated a War Vet for being the only guy honoring the National Anthem as the BAD GUY while everyone else was honorable.  The 1 place the Rooney Rule shouldn't be going wrong just so happens to be one of the places it couldn't be going any worse. 

[jiggins7919]

On 5/30/2018 at 5:39 PM, Orion said:

The Rams didn't take any steps backwards the year after Goff played like the rookie he was towards the end of HIS rookie season....

That's totally true, and it's something to consider.  You figure Baker is going to play at SOME point this year, and fans need to temper their expectations for when that happens.  Equally important will be to temper expectations if Baker DOES struggle for 2019.  In other words, if Baker should struggle this year, it doesn't mean "he sucks", or "he's a bust!" or anything like that.  We drafted a QB #1 overall, FINALLY.  There's no need to rush to any type of judgment, folks.

[gumby73]

Pluto's last OTA nuggets..Denzel Ward 👀  https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/06/cleveland_browns_talking_denze.html   

[Zombo]

On 6/9/2018 at 8:48 AM, gumby73 said:

Pluto's last OTA nuggets..Denzel Ward 👀  https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/06/cleveland_browns_talking_denze.html   

There is not a more dominant physical freak than Josh Gordon, will be great for Ward to try to stop him. Covering Landry is no picnic either.

The last CB we got in the top of the first round broke the starting lineup ... never? Three starts in two years for Gilbert Grape, filling in for injured guys.

Zombo

[gumby73]

Anybody else find it a little strange that LT Donald Stephenson has not been seen in Berra yet? Skipped Browns OTA's in NFL 6th season. Signed a FA deal with us for 1 year 2.5M with a cool Million at signing. Tomorrow starts Mandatory Camp so no show players are subject to fines. Hope Donald knows his playbook. 

[Zombo]

13 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Anybody else find it a little strange that LT Donald Stephenson has not been seen in Berra yet? Skipped Browns OTA's in NFL 6th season. Signed a FA deal with us for 1 year 2.5M with a cool Million at signing. Tomorrow starts Mandatory Camp so no show players are subject to fines. Hope Donald knows his playbook. 

“He is just not here right now. He is taking care of some business. We will definitely address that at the proper time.”

--Hue Ball

I think the bigger problem with Stephenson is that he is not very good.

Zombo

[gumby73]

On 6/12/2018 at 7:37 AM, Zombo said:

“He* is just not here right now. He* is taking care of some business. We* will definitely address that at the proper time.”

--Hue Ball

I think the bigger problem with Stephenson is that he is not very good.

Zombo

Hee-Hee-WEee..Hue Ball sounds to be waiting on Personal guy Dorsey to speak in missing Personal's place?.. Best news of the Day..Hubbard played RT & LT*..Corbett played RT* & G..Desmond Harrison played LT with 2's & 3's.With no news on Roderick Johnson playing at all. Maybe Shon won't have to sink alone if it goes bad at LT? I just don't see enough "play angry" from Shon. Similar to Erving in temper instead.   

[jiggins7919]

On 6/11/2018 at 9:14 AM, Zombo said:

There is not a more dominant physical freak than Josh Gordon, will be great for Ward to try to stop him. Covering Landry is no picnic either.

The last CB we got in the top of the first round broke the starting lineup ... never? Three starts in two years for Gilbert Grape, filling in for injured guys.

Zombo

Gordon is basically all anyone can talk about.  It's crazy...he literally stands out THAT much.  He and Tyrod seem to have that quick slant down pat, and if you overplay the slant, Josh is going vertical and you DON'T want that.  

It's awesome to see that Landry is as good or better than advertised.  His hands are like magnets, and for a smaller guy, his catch radius is giant.  

[TexasAg1969]

They are going to go "live" from Berea today for training camp on NFL TV Network @ 4pm Eastern.

BTW the Good Morning Football folks this morning were making the case for the Browns having the best receiving corps in the NFL now.

[Zombo]

36 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

They are going to go "live" from Berea today for training camp on NFL TV Network @ 4pm Eastern.

BTW the Good Morning Football folks this morning were making the case for the Browns having the best receiving corps in the NFL now.

It's the bullshit season until September when they play games that count.

No NBA, no NFL, Networks paying all of these talking heads to talk ... they just have to talk shit ... and no one remembers it after the season.

 

That said:

The last (only) time Josh Gordon played 14 out of 16 games:

87 catches , 1,646 yards, 9TDs

Landry last year

112 catches, 987 yards, 9 TDs

Corey Coleman's two half seasons together:

56 catches, 718 yards, 5 TDs

 

I'll take those numbers, and throw in Cab Calloway the home run threat and Jeff Janis playing the Patriot-style white guy receiver off the bench.

It COULD be very , very good.

Plus our Tight End is NoJoke.

Zombo

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Zombo said:

Plus our Tight End is NoJoke.

Zombo

Yep, Nate threw him in at the end as much of a WR threat as any of the other "designated" WR's and Duke as much of a threat as any slot guy. Icing on the cake.

[syd]

5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

They are going to go "live" from Berea today for training camp on NFL TV Network @ 4pm Eastern.

BTW the Good Morning Football folks this morning were making the case for the Browns having the best receiving corps in the NFL now.

thanks for the remind

[gumby73]

Jarvis Da'Land-tree is growing in Cleveland..if the smack talk attitude challenges the rise in talent level and changes a losing culture? Am all for it.. Go Browns!!  

[gumby73]

 

 Two Straight Shooters report what they see..