CLEVELandMILIDH Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Good piece about Manziel from QB guru George Whitfield Jr. http://static.cloud-texags.edgesuite.net/audio/0037703-smva-0.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I swear if it's Manziel, that might just be the last straw. I'm not kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 It's obvious I'm a Manziel supporter, but I'm willing to admit this. He's easily the biggest boom or bust guy in recent memory. He's a lot better throwing the football than most of you care to admit (and scouts agree with me) but his frame is a concern. What I do know is this: Manziel would bring passion to this team. He's not going to look like the Retard qbs we've had who trot off the field and look lost and don't give a shit. He's going to take chances down the field and extend plays with his athletic ability. I'm willing to jump into the deep end and take a damn chance. It'll sure as shit be better than taking these mediocre back-up caliber guys and watching 4-12 seasons. The FO isn't stupid. They know this draft is pivotal to them having jobs in the nfl, with the centerpiece being the QB they undoubtedly pick. If they choose Manziel, I'll be all for it. His game translates to NFL success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 It's obvious I'm a Manziel supporter, but I'm willing to admit this. He's easily the biggest boom or bust guy in recent memory. He's a lot better throwing the football than most of you care to admit (and scouts agree with me) but his frame is a concern. What I do know is this: Manziel would bring passion to this team. He's not going to look like the Retard qbs we've had who trot off the field and look lost and don't give a shit. He's going to take chances down the field and extend plays with his athletic ability. I'm willing to jump into the deep end and take a damn chance. It'll sure as shit be better than taking these mediocre back-up caliber guys and watching 4-12 seasons. The FO isn't stupid. They know this draft is pivotal to them having jobs in the nfl, with the centerpiece being the QB they undoubtedly pick. If they choose Manziel, I'll be all for it. His game translates to NFL success. I'm with you on Johnny. I also feel he has the highest ceiling of all the QBs, BUT also the lowest downside...definitely boom or bust. Because of that & the fact we have plenty of picks, I would like to see us draft him with pick 1A & take another QB with one of our 3rd round picks....call it insurance. The kid is INSTANT excitement & his passion for the game is contagious. He demands the best from himself AND his teammates on BOTH sides of the ball. He may be small but he's a tough guy & his pros far outweigh the cons. IMHO, he's well worth the gamble. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Renner plays in a wide open 5 WR spread O we need a Pro Style QB We need a Pro style coach,first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffinwv Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 His touch,scrambling ability are great IMO.I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for his throwing ability. And in this day of protecting the QBs and stopping the crazy hits...chances are better than ever for him to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I have to admit, Canton Mike is starting to convince me about Manziel being the great pick. Johnny does have that fire, fierceness, love for the game, competitiveness and toughness, and bigtime football smarts. Although, I still wonder if Manziel is better off playing in a dome. Look at his college schedule. Plays southern teams. How does he function in Nov and Dec in the swirling winds and snow and rain in a northern open air stadium? Can he still be Manziel the escape artist? Can he make the required throws vs the wind ? In college, he almost always played in nice weather. That won't happen even if he is drafted by a team with a dome. Throwing into tight windows in those conditions? I don't know. But I can't really be all in with Johnny Manziel just yet, because it's too much fun to make jokes and disagree with Canton Mike over the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Like others have said, Manziel has the highest chance of boom or bust. He either comes in barnstorming or ends up being a small, running QB who gets his brains mashed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Well if it's true that the browns are going for manziel at least we'll have another high pick three years from now. Any good qb prospects coming out in 2017?Winston may be getting out of prison around that time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I am torn between the two ... today I lean toward Johnny ... but why isn't Derek Carr in the conversation? Why is Bortles a better prospect than Carr? (I'm not being a smartass ... I am just now jumping into this discussion, and I want to know what everyone thinks.) Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Should Johney be given any credit for playing in the SEC? Should bortles be scrutenized for playing in Con USA? Theres no comparison between the two... There are a lot of NFL players on SEC defenses. As someone pointed out: Roethlisberger, Flacco, Romo, Kaepernick, Alex Smith, Cutler, and a few others did not play at high profile football schools. Getting a guy from UCF may not be that bad. Daunte Culpepper played there, and he was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Plus he will sell tickets for atleast another season. From a business standpoint, it's hard to imagine him not being the pick. I'm watching Manziel tape for the next week, hopefully he holds up to Teddy B. The Browns don't need Manziel to sell tickets. Those tickets are already sold. They need someone to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I am torn between the two ... today I lean toward Johnny ... but why isn't Derek Carr in the conversation? Why is Bortles a better prospect than Carr? (I'm not being a smartass ... I am just now jumping into this discussion, and I want to know what everyone thinks.) Zombo A lot of people feel that Carr was exposed by USC as another Brandon Weeden, a big guy with a big arm lacking the mental acuity to find success in the NFL. I was never too high on Carr for that reason, but who knows, maybe he was just rusty or jittery. It wouldn't be the worst thing to take a chance on him if he falls to the second round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 i don't know but if clowney is there when we pick or if he's gone and watkins is there......... i would take a chance on carr with our second 1st rounder. anyone has to be smarter in the pocket than weeden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I am torn between the two ... today I lean toward Johnny ... but why isn't Derek Carr in the conversation? Why is Bortles a better prospect than Carr? (I'm not being a smartass ... I am just now jumping into this discussion, and I want to know what everyone thinks.) Zombo Carr is the product of a system and benefitted from playing a very weak schedule. The only real team he had to face was USC and the system was ever present in that game. Carr threw 54 passes, completing 30 of them, yet could only manage just over 200 yards. His YPA was very low, at 4.0. That's the Schramm system at play. Meanwhile, UCF faced three top 10 ranked schools this year, beating two of them and losing to S.Carolina by only a field goal. Bortles had a higher completion percentage, more TD's, 100 more yards, and double the YPA against a top ranked Baylor in his bowl game. Carr is Graham Harrell with an NFL body. He's got everything you'd want on paper, but his decision making and mental agility is lacking. You could have taken any number of guys in college and put them in Carr's place and they would have seen the same amount of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Rennet played in the ACC, Shaw in the SEC. That's all you need to say. The ACC may have the National Champion, but the SEC is a much stronger conference. South Carolina played 5 top 25 teams this season and beat all of them. 6 of their opponents were bowl victors this year, and South Carolina beat all 6 of those teams. North Carolina, on the other hand, played 2 top 25 teams this year and lost to both of them. Shaw did his damage against quality defenses in big time games. Renner did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I have to admit, Canton Mike is starting to convince me about Manziel being the great pick. Johnny does have that fire, fierceness, love for the game, competitiveness and toughness, and bigtime football smarts. Although, I still wonder if Manziel is better off playing in a dome. Look at his college schedule. Plays southern teams. How does he function in Nov and Dec in the swirling winds and snow and rain in a northern open air stadium? Can he still be Manziel the escape artist? Can he make the required throws vs the wind ? In college, he almost always played in nice weather. That won't happen even if he is drafted by a team with a dome. Throwing into tight windows in those conditions? I don't know. But I can't really be all in with Johnny Manziel just yet, because it's too much fun to make jokes and disagree with Canton Mike over the phone. Manziel is reported to have massive hands and wears a size 15 shoe. Weather shouldn't be a problem for Johnny. Guys with small hands that have trouble gripping the ball when wet are the one's that struggle......And I've never seen a 6 foot man with size 15 shoes, I think he grows another inch or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Rennet played in the ACC, Shaw in the SEC. That's all you need to say. The ACC may have the National Champion, but the SEC is a much stronger conference. South Carolina played 5 top 25 teams this season and beat all of them. 6 of their opponents were bowl victors this year, and South Carolina beat all 6 of those teams. North Carolina, on the other hand, played 2 top 25 teams this year and lost to both of them. Shaw did his damage against quality defenses in big time games. Renner did not. Irrelevent what conference he played in, if he can do the job. Look at the QBs left in the playoffs: Brady/Brees/Wilson Big Ten. Manning/Newton SEC. Luck Pac 12. Rivers ACC. Kaepernick Mountain West. You are drafting a player, not a school, not a conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Irrelevent what conference he played in, if he can do the job. Look at the QBs left in the playoffs: Brady/Brees/Wilson Big Ten. Manning/Newton SEC. Luck Pac 12. Rivers ACC. Kaepernick Mountain West. You are drafting a player, not a school, not a conference. You are drafting a prospect, not a player. You have no idea what kind of player he'll become, therefore you evaluate all variables, including conference. When you two players with similar stats and similar measurables, you take the guy who did it against better talent. You don't have to agree with it. But Shaw is a better prospect than Renner. Just because you fail to accept that the SEC is a far superior conference compared to the Big Ten doesn't make it any less accurate. The SEC finished with 7 Top 25 teams. The Bug Ten had 3. The SEC had just as many Top 5 teams as the Big Ten did Top 25 teams. The only thing that's irrelevant in this argument are the QB's you listed. Each one of them played for Top 25 ranked teams and played ranked, quality out of conference opponents. Unlike Renner. Unlike Carr. Unlike Garropolo. Tony Romo or Joe Flacco would have been more apt comparisons, as they didn't play nearly the same level of talent in college as their counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Just saw that posted that there's possible interest. Cowboys have the 16th or 17th pick in the 1st round. If Watkins is gone by our pick.....trade with the cowboys for Romo and at least one other pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 You are drafting a prospect, not a player. You have no idea what kind of player he'll become, therefore you evaluate all variables, including conference. NO, when you draft him, he is a player. When you two players with similar stats and similar measurables, you take the guy who did it against better talent. When scouts bottom line this, there is no such thing. You don't have to agree with it. But Shaw is a better prospect than Renner. He may be, but it has nothing to do with the fact that he played in the SEC and the other guy didn't. Just because you fail to accept that the SEC is a far superior conference compared to the Big Ten doesn't make it any less accurate. Has nothing to do with the Big Ten or anywhere else....it has to do with "who is/will be better". Pierre Garcon is a pretty darn good receiver. He played DIII ball....so it was irrelevent. You try to choose a good player. The SEC finished with 7 Top 25 teams. The Bug Ten had 3. The SEC had just as many Top 5 teams as the Big Ten did Top 25 teams. Are we talking about the College rankings....or about guys playing professional football? I thought it was the latter. The only thing that's irrelevant in this argument are the QB's you listed. Each one of them played for Top 25 ranked teams and played ranked, quality out of conference opponents. Unlike Renner. Unlike Carr. Unlike Garropolo. Tony Romo or Joe Flacco would have been more apt comparisons, as they didn't play nearly the same level of talent in college as their counterparts. I think you just made my point. Flacco/Romo/BR all came from smaller schools. Is it more likely that the "Power Conferences" would produce more better players? Certainly, because they naturally generally recruit the better talent. But that is not the be all end all. E.g. : I truly don't know anything much about this Renner or Shaw. I only saw some snippets of games played by South Carolina this year, and probably none by Renner, wherever he went to school. But, am I automatically going to conclude that Shaw will make a better Pro Quarterback prospect than Renner just because he played in the SEC? Hell no. Wherever these guys played the NFL scouts must do their due diligence on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Shaw?? 6'nothing, 200 lbs soaking wet, with an extensive injury history? With a 2013 completion percentage of only 63.4%, good for 38th in FBS I-A... Sure he plays in the SEC, but other than the bowl game against Wisconsin, his 4 best games this year came against unranked Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, and Coastal Carolina... Comparing him to Renner is one thing. Comparing him to Manziel (who played in the same conference) is laughable... I don't think Manziel is a top 10 pick, but he can easily be a 1st rounder while Shaw is a 6th or 7th pick who you hope turns into a decent backup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Just saw that posted that there's possible interest. Cowboys have the 16th or 17th pick in the 1st round. If Watkins is gone by our pick.....trade with the cowboys for Romo and at least one other pick? No. No Romo. He will be 34 next year. He would not be the Browns future. If they want to trade for our #4 pick.....give us their #16, their #1 next year....and Dez Bryant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 No. No Romo. He will be 34 next year. He would not be the Browns future. If they want to trade for our #4 pick.....give us their #16, their #1 next year....and Desmond Bryant. Oh I would take Romo in a heartbeat. He's 33 ... that's at least four years with a bonafide franchise QB. You roll the dice on one of these rookies and it doesn't work out it is another wasted four years. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Oh I would take Romo in a heartbeat. He's 33 ... that's at least four years with a bonafide franchise QB. You roll the dice on one of these rookies and it doesn't work out it is another wasted four years. Zombo If he is cut by the Cowboys and the Browns pick him up as a veteran FA....OK, maybe. But I am not in favor of trading draft picks for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 If he is cut by the Cowboys and the Browns pick him up as a veteran FA....OK, maybe. But I am not in favor of trading draft picks for him. I'd switch first rounders for him. He's one of the best QBs in the league. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'll take Johnny Football, he is wildly intelligent, ultra competitive and have an underrated arm. I don't think he will be running around much in the NFL but the way he feel pressure and makes the right decision under duress is pretty much the opposite of Brandon Weeden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 problem is we have to protect him. Cleveland is historically bad at protecting our qb. I didn't know he was going to be a FA this year. Better to go that route and keep our #1. If we were to get Romo...than for sure Watkins has to be 1st on our board with Clowney 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'd switch first rounders for him. He's one of the best QBs in the league. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Cowboys are not trading Romo, they just signed him to a new deal...because of the way the NFL has moved to a slotted rookie wage scale it becomes much more cost effective to have a Vet QB with a top 5 pick sitting on the bench learning the system and developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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