The Gipper Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I wonder if the rate of busts changes for guys who didn't play the majority of their rookie year. I can't imagine that's easy info to conjure up though. Good question. Don't know. It was more common for top pick QBs to wait in years past....60s/70s/80s. Since the 90s they want those top picks playing right away it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Long post that really says not a fucking thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I dont get this post? Theres a ton of Non red letter names on there.. Why assume Johnny is one of them and not one of the good ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikethomas777 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust. That is the exact fucking point of my post. Did you not read? It is those clamoring for JFF who think he should play now and who think he is their savior that need to chill out until he actually plays. All I am saying is that history shows that a vast perecentage of QBs taken in the first round are busts......and that to be absolutey convinced that JFF will be on the positive side of that ledger is just ignoring history. We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for Possibly true. On the other hand sometimes a good QB can break his team out of their shittiness. Brady may be one of those guys, since you mentioned him. . How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s? I don't know....how about hopping on Mr. Sherman's way back machine and have the Browns take him instead of Spergon Wynn. Basically your post says, "Johnny may be a bust, so let's hope he's a bust." Quit bashing our rookie qb. Did you get beat up in high school or something? Are you one of those guys that pees in a stall and is mad at everyone? Brady did not make the Patriots great. Look at their games from a season before and although they didn't have the best record almost every loss was within 3 points. Also a season before that they were 8-8. It was hardly a shitty team that was carried by a qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Just to make things clear with everyone, this happened to Manziel at 2:30 am Saturday, which means he was out on Friday night. People seem really confused about days and times for some reason. It does not mean he was out at 2:30 am the day of the game, that would be 2:30 am on Sunday. He was able to get his 8 hours of sleep the next night before the game so everyone can quit worrying if Johnny is sleeping enough. AND let's not forget the unwritten rule that players should have their feet off the ground by the end of practice friday. monday and thursdays are the days players go out to 'go out'. anything after that then you are putting yourself out there for criticism. sure, the NFLPA will say different but you could tell by pettine's demeanor on the mic today that he didn't like answering questions about what happened to his second stringer at 2:30 in the morning on saturday the day they flew into atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 AND let's not forget the unwritten rule that players should have their feet off the ground by the end of practice friday. monday and thursdays are the days players go out to 'go out'. anything after that then you are putting yourself out there for criticism. sure, the NFLPA will say different but you could tell by pettine's demeanor on the mic today that he didn't like answering questions about what happened to his second stringer at 2:30 in the morning on saturday the day they flew into atlanta. The finger does what the finger wants. No ragrets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Holy shit. I thought Texas had good school systems. These Texas jackwads seem to all have the same reading comprehension problem. No one here is insulting your boy love. Id rather he not be on the team if it meant getting rid of these Texas queers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 And as you go later into the rounds, more red would appear (if held to the same standards) I did this for AP stats in HS based on QBR and round taken. There is a correlation. At least I think it was QBR, maybe we used something slightly different. Something that was pretty fair for determining"good" vs "bad"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElkDawg Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 As of right now JFF is borderline bust and borderline average. Obviously he's not good enough to start. Or he would be by now. The pick was shoved down the throats of Farmer and Pettine. If not for us taking him he may not have went until the 2nd round or later because nobody else wanted him! Nobody. This is Hoyers team and I'll ride the Hoyer train to the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonLegthigh Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I see two options with JF, he could be Russell Wilson good, or he could be slightly above Tim tebow bad. I think we are trying to build a team like the seahawks. Strong defense, beast run game, and mobile qb who can make plays when they need it. JF could be a fantastic fit for what we are trying to build. I sure hope so. My main worry is that if he even turns out to be good, I just don't think he is built to withstand NFL type hits, and the way he plays he will be taking a lot. Gotta say though I am super excited to see him play, I don't think he should play yet, but man I can't wait to see what he can do. All that being said if I had to bet on it, I would bet bust. hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikethomas777 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 AND let's not forget the unwritten rule that players should have their feet off the ground by the end of practice friday. monday and thursdays are the days players go out to 'go out'. anything after that then you are putting yourself out there for criticism. sure, the NFLPA will say different but you could tell by pettine's demeanor on the mic today that he didn't like answering questions about what happened to his second stringer at 2:30 in the morning on saturday the day they flew into atlanta. He was with his mom at the building he lived at, it wasn't like he was slanging dope in the projects at 230 am. Maybe it was John Lennon's fault that he got shot by some batshit crazy fan, because it's obvious that this cocaine addicted, convicted felon was right to go after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I wouldnt put Drew Bledsoe as a bust. #1st round QBs have much better odds vs undrafted free agent QBs at not being busts. BTW, anyone that would call Manziel a bust without him even starting a single game is lacking football knowledge. I agree.. I thought Bledsoe was pretty darn good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I concur.. Bledsoe was really good... he was on the cover of Magazines at the lid to ladder end of his carreer.. he was legitimate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonLegthigh Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 it wasn't like he was slanging dope in the projects at 230 am. Hey now, I've bought dope from JFF many a time, and let me tell you, his shit is DA bomb son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoundDawg Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 He's already too big for this team. He's too big for any team. He's a celebrity who plays football. Media and crazy people are going to chase him around all the time and will only get more intrusive should he become a starter. This only gets bigger and worse. Not even playing and he's already had more negative media than most players ever get in their entire career. Not all, but a lot of it self inflicted. I'm sure Ray Farmer was thrilled to get that call early Saturday morning just before the team heads to Atlanta. I bet Pettine loves having to answer questions about negative non football stuff re the back up QB. Dude is a walking distraction that only gets bigger with more status. It will be his downfall in the NFL because no staff wants to waste time on this stupidity. Makes no difference if Manziel is totally innocent. I'd actually feel bad for the guy if he didn't thrive on all the attention when it works in his favor. Can't cry about the bad press while you bask in the glow of the fame that causes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 He was with his mom at the building he lived at, it wasn't like he was slanging dope in the projects at 230 am. Maybe it was John Lennon's fault that he got shot by some batshit crazy fan, because it's obvious that this cocaine addicted, convicted felon was right to go after him. i really doubt that his mom was with him and his friend in the lobby of the building @2:30 in the morning. if that's the case shame on him for having his mom out that late. i'm thinking his mom was in his room sleeping while him and his boy were creeping, for what? maybe we'll never know. i know at 2:30 AM in cleveland it's not like you're getting chinese food delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonLegthigh Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 i really doubt that his mom was with him and his friend in the lobby of the building @2:30 in the morning. if that's the case shame on him for having his mom out that late. i'm thinking his mom was in his room sleeping while him and his boy were creeping, for what? maybe we'll never know. i know at 2:30 AM in cleveland it's not like you're getting chinese food delivered. On the prowl for some bitches of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Archie Manning sucked He was a bust. He never amounted to anything except he fathered Superbowl winning QB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Bledsoe was the first choice to play Mary's ex-boyfriend in Something About Mary, but then he got bad publicity for the mosh pit thing and role eventually went to Brett Fav-ra after Steve Young passed because the content was too racy. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Brown fan Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I know all these stats. Think about this. Most of the qb's that are 1st round busts have 1 thing in common. They all have prototypical NFL bodies. I could name LOTS of names here, how about I just say Jamarcus Russell and be done. Also, many success stories of pro qb's that were not thought of as great prospects by draft "gurus" were not "NFL size". Examples here are Flutie, Garcia, Romo. What I surmise from this is that too much weight is put on how a qb looks and not enough on other tangibles and intangibles. Vince Young made a 6 on the Wonderlic. SIX!!! Yet he was still drafted top 4 because he was 6' 5" with a big arm. So many red flags and he was still WAY overdrafted. Whatever I say obviously doesn't mean anything. We'll see what Johnny is as a pro, but here are some reasons I think he'll excel. 1. He's a great leader. Many here say that Hoyer is a great leader, and from what I've seen, I agree. If Johnny plays for Cleveland, qb leadership won't be a problem. His past teammates and coaches rave about his leadership. 2. Mobilty. 3. Instinct. In college, he always seemed to know when to take off, which way to go, when to scramble to throw.... Never seen anyone like him. Yes, it was college. 3. Accuracy. 70% 4. Fearlessness. For a freshman to go into Alabama and win for A&M was almost a miracle. Yes, it was college. Take a look at NFL rosters and you'll see most of the guys on the field trying to stop him that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Brown fan Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 4 Continued. If you look at his demeanor that game, look at his face, he had no doubt what he was going to do. Call it cocky, call it confident. I call it crucial for a winning qb. 5. He has a good strong arm, not great but above average. 6. He's smart. He got 33 on the Wonderlic. 7. Ability to avoid bog hits. He rushed for 1700+ yards as a Frshman and rarely took a "killshot" hit. He's so quick and sees the field so well that he manages to avoid big hits. He took a couple big hits his second year because he had to, which leads to number... 8. Competitiveness. I've never seen anybody want to win more than Johnny. The 2 big hits I remember from year two were two plays he was trying to win the game. Once at the Auburn goal line, and once on 4th and 7 when he ran up the middle for a first down. The guy LOVES competing. He will do whatever it takes to win. But he's not 6' 4" 230, so people doubt him. Texas fans, Baylor fans, Alabama fans all told me he wouldn't make it through a second year in the sec. "He's too small, he parties too much, he only cares about himself. SEC defenses are gonna kill him." All proven wrong. Will Johnny prove his NFL detractors wrong? I don't know. I think he will. I hope he will. I guarantee he is not gonna be a Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell type bust, though. He will work hard to make Cleveland fans proud. Sorry for this being 2 posts, accidentally hit post on the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikethomas777 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Archie Manning sucked He was a bust. He never amounted to anything except he fathered Superbowl winning QB's Having the ability to reproduce after having played with the Saints back then is enough of an accomplishment to not be labeled a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikethomas777 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 i really doubt that his mom was with him and his friend in the lobby of the building @2:30 in the morning. if that's the case shame on him for having his mom out that late. i'm thinking his mom was in his room sleeping while him and his boy were creeping, for what? maybe we'll never know. i know at 2:30 AM in cleveland it's not like you're getting chinese food delivered. He was in his apartment building walking to his room! Maybe some coked up moron will show up at your house one day late at night and try to hug you, and we'll all chastise you for it. Look this idiot up on the Erie county court docs that went to 'hug' Manziel. He has a pretty lengthy criminal record for public intox, DUI, fraud, drug use, spanning back to 2001, yet you'll take his word for it over one of our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Long post that really says not a fucking thing. short post that says even less and brings zero value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 He was in his apartment building walking to his room! Maybe some coked up moron will show up at your house one day late at night and try to hug you, and we'll all chastise you for it. Look this idiot up on the Erie county court docs that went to 'hug' Manziel. He has a pretty lengthy criminal record for public intox, DUI, fraud, drug use, spanning back to 2001, yet you'll take his word for it over one of our players. the LOBBY of his building!! not on the floor where he stays! what are you doing in the lobby of your building if not coming in from outside or meeting someone or somebody in that lobby? answer me that batman? man i should've been a detective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Well Mik.. There is a Gym in the complex he lives.. A hot tub.. a pool... a lounge... a swanky roarin 20's style speakeasy.. an art gallery and a variety of things in the building... theres even AN INDOOR DOG PARK.. and MULTIPLE RESTAURANTS.. all in his building. These are called... AMENITIES... Seeing as how he lives in a place where hundreds of other people live and stay.. People SHARE these AMENITIES... Therefore.. because he doesnt have his own property/house where he can relax and do various different things late at night.. he has to do them in the complex he LIVES... So lets say he was chatting it up with the local millionaires club in the cigar room in his hotel/condo.. then he went to the levator maybe to head up to the pool to take a relaxing night swim... then BAM.. Cracked out Cokehead waiting to attack... The whole complex is considered his home.. He shares it with hundreds of others.. Why doesnt this happen to other big name quarterbacks? Because they have houses in the suburbs and wives and children and shit.. they dont share anything with anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikethomas777 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 the LOBBY of his building!! not on the floor where he stays! what are you doing in the lobby of your building if not coming in from outside or meeting someone or somebody in that lobby? answer me that batman? man i should've been a detective. Who the fuck cares? He was in the lobby of HIS apartment building. He can do what he wants there, just like you don't plan on being attacked when you walk outside of your house to take out the garbage. How shitty is your life that you have to criticize a 21 year old that was attacked on his property by a drug addict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikethomas777 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Can we take these Brown's player bashing threads down? This shit is really sad considering so-called fans would rather talk about why our rookie qb will suck even though we are in a playoff run for the first time since 2007. Right now we're going to cheer on Hoyer and if he gets hurt then we're gonna cheer on Manziel, and if he gets hurt we'll cheer on Shaw/Grossman ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Long post that really says not a fucking thing. Nope, it says exactly what Gipper was getting at- so pay attention. He was pointing out- just because Manziel had great college stats, was drafted in the first round, (or I may add, just because he won a Heisman) is far from a 100% guarantee he's going to be a great qb in the NFL That's what the majority of the Manzealots are 100% certain of- and as Corso would say- "not so fast, my friend." I dont get this post? Theres a ton of Non red letter names on there.. Why assume Johnny is one of them and not one of the good ones? We're assuming NOTHNG. Just pointing out the historical odds. Manziel was drafted at the exact same slot as Brady Quinn and Brandon Weeden. Aaron Rodgers got picked in the same neighborhood. I'd say the odds of him being the former, as opposed to the latter are around equal. I wouldnt put Drew Bledsoe as a bust. #1st round QBs have much better odds vs undrafted free agent QBs at not being busts. BTW, anyone that would call Manziel a bust without him even starting a single game is lacking football knowledge. Yes, some around here have called Manziel that- but not anyone who has a shred of football acumen. Some were calling for Pettine to get fired before the season started.The heavy betting odds were Hoyer wasn't going to make it past the bye week as the starter either. Archie Manning sucked He was a bust. He never amounted to anything except he fathered Superbowl winning QB's His stats weren't much- but I'll argue he was hampered by having to play on some of the worst teams in NFL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonLegthigh Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 theres even AN INDOOR DOG PARK.. He must have been taking his poodle for a little late night game of fetch. Mystery solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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