Jonathan Paul Manziel

[StocktonShorts]

 

Hoyer has had 7 years. This is how good he is. This idea that he's going to take it to a new level is insane. The problems he had out of college, he has now. He can't throw straight, he's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL. You expect at 29 he's just going to develop a brand new skill set? Do you know how aging works?

 

It doesn't take much to realize who isn't the guy. "Except Win" yeah was that Hoyer or was the the run game..he won last year too. Dont know why, but willing to see if he can continue a little while. Again, we have time with JFF..because when the run game wasn't there against Jacksonville Hoyer put in one of the worst performances by an opening day starter this year..his first "BAD" game. All QB's have a bad game. That doesn't happen with elite QBs. yes it does. That doesn't happen with franchise QBs.Yes it does.

How many teams do you think RIGHT NOW would take Hoyer and start him this weekend. Count it off to me. How many? Tampa Bay MAYBE? Is that the entire list? I have no idea, but unlike you, Im actually willing to say it.

 

I have no fear of Hoyer going somewhere else and becoming successful, because he won't and he can't. I KNEW you wouldnt answer the question. Knew it. He's had other shots too, and got cut. Brian Hoyer will never sniff a Super Bowl. Never, ever, not possible, not in the hemisphere of QBs that could even dream about that. That much is clear, and because that much is clear it is also clear he's not the franchise QB that the Browns need (because the NFL is all about Franchise QBs now, and if you don't got one, you don't get shit)

 

"Only QB that's done well for us" who gives a shit? Honestly who gives a shit. If just because we've had 11 lemons and this car actually starts and can make it a mile down the road, doesn't make it a good car. So, if you had no car for 10 years and someone gave you one that seems to run pretty good, you would throw it away for a car you've never heard run? or because it wasn't a Rolls?..Quit comparing Hoyer to Browns QBs of the past, because they don't matter, the bar in the NFL which is set is what matters. Compared to that bar he's not even close. Besides Hoyer is a LOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG second compared to Derek Anderson 2007. Lets have Hoyer make a Pro Bowl before we start calling him the "Only QB thats done well for us". He would have to play to get there, now wouldn't he? On the same note, let's let JFFactually beat him out before we anoint him, eh? If he's so great, why can't he play better than Mr Average?

 

If we don't make the playoff this year, would you resign Hoyer? Yes. Though Ive said all along that he's not a premier QB, so no way do I pay him top dollar. What you're missing is that I ALSO believe JFF is gonna be the man(eventually). I just disagree on the timing and your reasoning. Would you still consider him a "Winner"? If he has a winning record, yes. I think it's pretty clear that Hoyer is a winner. If we don't make the playoffs you want us to sign up for more of that? We haven't won more than 5 games in years and years, so I had no expectation of going to the Play Offs this year. If they goi, then they are exceeding ALL expectations and, to me, that would mean Hoyer met the challenge.

 

What did you predict the Browns would be this year??? I bet 4-12 or something like that. Yet If they exceed all those horrible predictions, I assume it's something else, not Hoyer, that is the reason. He's a big part of that equation.

 

I remember lots of predictions about a monster defense and us finishing last, but very few about how we'd be one of the top scoring teams in the league.

 

Bottom line, since he has been here:

 

BROWNS w Hoyer 6-3

BROWNS wo Hoyer 1- 12

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again you count "WINS" as a Brian Hoyer thing, but whenever we lose its "Well its the team that lost"

 

You ignore the things Brian actually DOES in these games and go "Well its a win, so score one for Brian" and when we lose you go "Well it's not Brians fault"

 

Brian is dead last in completion % this year. Dead last. And thats with people being surprised with how much better he's playing, still dead last in completion %. What more do you need to know? Our WRs actually have the LEAST drops in the NFL, so don't try the "Well the receivers...." no they've been making incredible catches all year for Hoyer.

 

Once again it is clear that Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. That part is obvious. If you want to tell me he's better then some other guys we've had, fine. You want to tell me "Hey we haven't been 3-3 for a long time" fine. I could also make the argument that we've had the 30th ranked schedule, 3rd easiest schedule in the entire league, to this point and are only 3-3. Doesn't make Hoyer a Franchise QB. Hoyer doesn't have the ability to be a Franchise QB. Once you know a guy ISN'T the guy then you need to start to move on, not hold on tighter.

 

We are only hurting ourselves the longer we play a guy who is NOT the guy. Thats the entire point. Thats what all these other teams have figured out, that we refused to accept. If you look at the QB grouping that Hoyer is in, everyone of those QBs are on the verge of being benched, if not already benched. Locker, Glennon, Geno Smith, Cassell, Cousins, Manuel....all the same guys and Hoyer is right in there with them. Only Hoyer is less accurate then all of them.

 

The elephant in the room, that none of you want to talk about, is if Brian Hoyer was born in Texas and not in Cleveland, we wouldn't be having this conversation. People here have such an old man, emotional, "HES ONE OF US!" reaction to Brian Hoyer that you have no ability to discuss him rationally. You can't see him for what he really is, and he knows it and plays up to it trying to steal money from the Browns because have no doubt that this season, in Hoyers mind, is all about making money. Has nothing to do with the fans or playing at home or any of that shit. He wants MONEY.

 

Don't blame him either, I'd want money too, but to act like hes some boy scout hero coming to save the city of Cleveland, give me a break. He's a mediocre QB who is getting much more support then he ever should ONLY because he popped out of his moms pussy down the road. What a great reason to keep a QB.

 

If you think that statement is untrue, then you've stopped living in reality.

[thenew23]

What's the rush to change QBs?

 

As I mentioned before, a few plays for Manziel to get his feet wet is fine with me. I'd like to see him get a series here-and-there, but I'm not starting him if I'm the HC. He is so young and "raw" for an NFL QB, what's the point in rushing him out? Hoyer is not playing great, but he's not playing terribly. He got beat up against JAX, but how many drops were there? How much pressure did he have in his face? Who are his weapons?

 

I think Hoyer can get the job done, and put this team in the playoffs. From there, who knows what can happen?? If he doesn't, let the competetion begin next offseason. Or, let Hoyer walk and bring in a different vet FA to compete with Manziel...

 

Again, what's the rush to change? We still want to win... even if that means only winning 6-8 games. Hoyer gives us the best chance... right now. If Manziel shows something in a few drives, then we can start talking...

[StocktonShorts]

What's the rush to change QBs?

 

As I mentioned before, a few plays for Manziel to get his feet wet is fine with me. I'd like to see him get a series here-and-there, but I'm not starting him if I'm the HC. He is so young and "raw" for an NFL QB, what's the point in rushing him out? Hoyer is not playing great, but he's not playing terribly. He got beat up against JAX, but how many drops were there? How much pressure did he have in his face? Who are his weapons?

 

I think Hoyer can get the job done, and put this team in the playoffs. From there, who knows what can happen?? If he doesn't, let the competetion begin next offseason. Or, let Hoyer walk and bring in a different vet FA to compete with Manziel...

 

Again, what's the rush to change? We still want to win... even if that means only winning 6-8 games. Hoyer gives us the best chance... right now. If Manziel shows something in a few drives, then we can start talking...

The rush is the sooner you see what Manziel has, the sooner you can make plans for the future. Also the sooner he plays the sooner he gets acclimated and better. Like I said next two draft classes are stacked at QB, you want to know what's going on very soon. What is the point of winning 6-8 games? Honestly whats the point? This is what I mean by low self esteem. To you 6-8 wins is AWESOME and how dare we change anything when that is AWESOME. It's not. It's worthless.

 

Also quit talking about drops, on the season our entire team has 5 total drops. Best in the NFL. Brian missed 25 of 41 passes, so lets not act like drops played a part in that performance.

 

Once again you guys can't discuss Hoyer with actual information, it's becomes "Oh well the drops and the..." none of that is factual. It's not backed up by stats, its only developed in your bias brains, not by reality.

[Manzier]

Once again you count "WINS" as a Brian Hoyer thing, but whenever we lose its "Well its the team that lost" Your lumping me with everyone. Never said "he" won those games or said he lost a game. I said the teams wins when he's played and the teams loses when he doesnt. Also said Idont know why, but feel it's worth investigating.

 

You ignore the things Brian actually DOES in these games and go "Well its a win, so score one for Brian" and when we lose you go "Well it's not Brians fault" Haven't ignored anything. Ive said he has a weak arm. Ive said he look inaccurate. And I said he sucked this past Sundsay. STOP putting words in my mouth. I not a Hoyer lover, I just think he's the better of the 2 right now. And rule #1 is you play the better player.

 

Brian is dead last in completion % this year. Dead last. And thats with people being surprised with how much better he's playing, still dead last in completion %. What more do you need to know? Our WRs actually have the LEAST drops in the NFL, so don't try the "Well the receivers...." no they've been making incredible catches all year for Hoyer. Until last week. Dropped several. And again, he's doing it with crap receivers.

 

Once again it is clear that Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. That part is obvious. If you want to tell me he's better then some other guys we've had, fine. You want to tell me "Hey we haven't been 3-3 for a long time" fine. I could also make the argument that we've had the 30th ranked schedule, 3rd easiest schedule in the entire league, to this point and are only 3-3. Doesn't make Hoyer a Franchise QB. Hoyer doesn't have the ability to be a Franchise QB. Once you know a guy ISN'T the guy then you need to start to move on, not hold on tighter. I disagree(obviously). I think you play your best player and try to win no matter what. If JFF wants to start, then he needs to beat out Hoyer.

 

We are only hurting ourselves the longer we play a guy who is NOT the guy. Thats the entire point. Thats what all these other teams have figured out, that we refused to accept. If you look at the QB grouping that Hoyer is in, everyone of those QBs are on the verge of being benched, if not already benched. Locker, Glennon, Geno Smith, Cassell, Cousins, Manuel....all the same guys and Hoyer is right in there with them. Only Hoyer is less accurate then all of them.No. What many teams have figured out is that many young QB's were getting thrown to the wolves and failing. So the Browns have the OPPORTUNITY to develop their guy slowly and they're taking it. You're just not getting that.

 

The elephant in the room, that none of you want to talk about, is if Brian Hoyer was born in Texas and not in Cleveland, we wouldn't be having this conversation I give give a rats ass where he's from. People here have such an old man, emotional, "HES ONE OF US!" reaction to Brian Hoyer that you have no ability to discuss him rationally. Again. Dont know who you're talking to. Im completely rational. 100%. You can't see him for what he really is, and he knows it and plays up to it trying to steal money from the Browns because have no doubt that this season, in Hoyers mind, is all about making money. Has nothing to do with the fans or playing at home or any of that shit. He wants MONEY. Yeah. Whatever. Mr Trademark does too. We all do. What a dumb ass statement.

 

Don't blame him either, I'd want money too, but to act like hes some boy scout hero coming to save the city of Cleveland, give me a breakWrong again. Never said that. Not even close. He's a mediocre QB who is getting much more support then he ever should ONLY because he popped out of his moms pussy down the road. What a great reason to keep a QB.

 

If you think that statement is untrue, then you've stopped living in reality. Why do you care "why" people support him? What a puss thing to say. It's as if "we fans" are the reason he's starting and "we fans" are calling the shots. Anyone can like any player they want for whatever reason they want, who gives a fuck???

 

The only thing that matters is what RAY FARMER and MIKE PETTINE think. And, right now, they think HOYER is better than Johnny....get it?

 

And I have a LOT more faith in their opinions than in yours. Simple fact.

[Manzier]

One other point....that I think is a big one.....is that WE haven't seen JFF, but the coaches and team work with him everyday. I think they know what they have. I think they have a STRONG opinion on whether he's the man or not. Could be that he IS gonna be next years starter and the Browns are using Hoyer to develop him. Could be they already know he's a bust, but dont want to reveal that. Who knows. Give them enough credit to realize they know A LOT MORE than we do right now..

[StocktonShorts]

 

Brian is dead last in completion % this year. Dead last. And thats with people being surprised with how much better he's playing, still dead last in completion %. What more do you need to know? Our WRs actually have the LEAST drops in the NFL, so don't try the "Well the receivers...." no they've been making incredible catches all year for Hoyer. Until last week. Dropped several. And again, he's doing it with crap receivers.

 

If you think that statement is untrue, then you've stopped living in reality. Why do you care "why" people support him? What a puss thing to say. It's as if "we fans" are the reason he's starting and "we fans" are calling the shots. Anyone can like any player they want for whatever reason they want, who gives a fuck???

 

The only thing that matters is what RAY FARMER and MIKE PETTINE think. And, right now, they think HOYER is better than Johnny....get it?

 

 

Just these ones.

 

Last week before the Jacksonville game, as a team the Browns had 5 total drops. This week, post Jacksonville as a team the Browns have 5 total drops. So you tell me how many drops were in the Jacksonville game. Give it a shot.

 

I agree with that Brian Hoyer is better RIGHT NOW then Johnny Manziel, god 7 years in and many starts under his belt, I hope he is. I also agree Chad Henne is better then Blake Bortles right now, and Matt Schaub is better then Derek Carr right now, but RIGHT NOW we're not a championship contender so I don't give a shit about RIGHT NOW and I do give a shit about the future and in the future Hoyer is going to be Hoyer and we need to find out who Manziel is. Just like The Jags, Raiders, Vikings, Titans, etc etc are doing. Its vital to know ASAP what you have because you need to plan, not just for this week, for the future.

 

Now if I'm Pettine I want the guy RIGHT NOW, because its my job and in my head I can build a Super Bowl winner RIGHT NOW, but he's as biased as the fans and once it becomes a reality that the playoffs aren't in our future, Manziel needs to start and I would bet he would agree with that too. Hell he's already considering it.

[thenew23]

The rush is the sooner you see what Manziel has, the sooner you can make plans for the future. Also the sooner he plays the sooner he gets acclimated and better. Like I said next two draft classes are stacked at QB, you want to know what's going on very soon. What is the point of winning 6-8 games? Honestly whats the point? This is what I mean by low self esteem. To you 6-8 wins is AWESOME and how dare we change anything when that is AWESOME. It's not. It's worthless.

 

Also quit talking about drops, on the season our entire team has 5 total drops. Best in the NFL. Brian missed 25 of 41 passes, so lets not act like drops played a part in that performance.

 

Once again you guys can't discuss Hoyer with actual information, it's becomes "Oh well the drops and the..." none of that is factual. It's not backed up by stats, its only developed in your bias brains, not by reality.

 

The sooner he plays, the better he gets??? WTF?? More like, the sooner he plays the sooner D-coordinators see his weaknesses and the sooner they exploit his weaknesses, and the sooner his confidence is shot. Haven't you watched the fu**ing Browns in the past 10 years???

 

Quit being an asshole. Every week we want to win. I'm just saying, Hoyer gives us the best chance to win... right now!! What's the point of looking to "the future" when you're 3-3?? You'd be fired in a fu**ing second if you were the coach and made the change right now??

 

I'm not a Hoyer apologist!!!!! So, don't talk to me like I'm an idiot....

 

Like I said, give him a few snaps and see what he's got. But, if you changed starting QBs right now when you're team is playing .500 football and you have a game against a winless team... YOU'D BE A FU**ING MORON!!!!!!!!!!

[StocktonShorts]

 

Like I said, give him a few snaps and see what he's got. But, if you changed starting QBs right now when you're team is playing .500 football and you have a game against a winless team... YOU'D BE A FU**ING MORON!!!!!!!!!!

Well we were above .500 last week playing a winless team and keeping QBs didnt' work out so hot either.

 

But I'm with you, if playoffs are a pipe dream, then keep Hoyer in, hes your only hope for that. But if you wan to be real and recognize that with the 3rd easiest schedule in the league we're only 3-3 with a loss to a Jacksonville and the back half of the schedule is one of the toughest in football, then maybe you start to plan for the future a bit earlier.

[Manzier]

 

Now if I'm Pettine I want the guy RIGHT NOW, because its my job and in my head I can build a Super Bowl winner RIGHT NOW, but he's as biased as the fans and once it becomes a reality that the playoffs aren't in our future, Manziel needs to start and I would bet he would agree with that too. Hell he's already considering it.

Your getting close here. Pettine wants to win NOW. In fact, he feels like he HAS to win NOW. No matter what the future holds, he was brought in to win NOW. So he'll do whatever he feels he needs to do to accomplish that/

 

In regards to Bortles/carr etc. It doesn't matter what those teams do. Sometimes being in a copycat league becomes your undoing. Used to be QB's sat. Then they rushed em in. Now it's a bit of both. Some do well right away. Some take time. There is no specific formula.

 

Instead of ranting here, why not get a hold of Farmer and Pettine and straighten them out( message them or something)? Im sure, once they hear your logic they will agree and put JFF in.

[thenew23]

Well we were above .500 last week playing a winless team and keeping QBs didnt' work out so hot either.

 

But I'm with you, if playoffs are a pipe dream, then keep Hoyer in, hes your only hope for that. But if you wan to be real and recognize that with the 3rd easiest schedule in the league we're only 3-3 with a loss to a Jacksonville and the back half of the schedule is one of the toughest in football, then maybe you start to plan for the future a bit earlier.

 

Maybe you anticipate that you're team is actually going to start playing better as the year goes on?? No?

 

First year HC, Offensive system, and Defensive system... 3-3 early in the year is decent, especially with games against the Raiders and Bucs coming up...

 

Can't THIS team start playing better??????

 

You talk about low self-esteem... yet, you're already going with the "Well, there's always next year" approach... What about THIS year, and THIS team??

 

I'm not giving up, but it sounds like you already did... Some fan...

[StocktonShorts]

Your getting close here. Pettine wants to win NOW. In fact, he feels like he HAS to win NOW. No matter what the future holds, he was brought in to win NOW. So he'll do whatever he feels he needs to do to accomplish that/

 

In regards to Bortles/carr etc. It doesn't matter what those teams do. Sometimes being in a copycat league becomes your undoing. Used to be QB's sat. Then they rushed em in. Now it's a bit of both. Some do well right away. Some take time. There is no specific formula.

 

Instead of ranting here, why not get a hold of Farmer and Pettine and straighten them out( message them or something)? Im sure, once they hear your logic they will agree and put JFF in.

I don't believe Pettine thinks he's one and done, not with this front office. Unless Harbaugh came in, which is unlikely and if Harbaugh came in this year Manziel would already be playing.

 

One of them already agrees with me. Manziel playing is closer then you guys are realizing. Hoyer is very fortunate this week is the Raiders, bad team horrible defense, very easy week for him because if it was a good defense this week, that might be curtains.

 

Raiders are giving up an 70% completion this year and an avg QB rating of 106. If Hoyer is worth anything he should be pretty near those numbers. Of course if Hoyer throws for 55% and has a QBR of 90 and we in you'll all be sucking his dick the next day, meanwhile he really played like shit.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

"I know this (game) severely dropped (the completion percentage),'' said Pettine. "If it becomes a couple more games (and it's) still a trend, that's something to look at. (But) there are some times when completion percentage will be affected when you're trying to throw the ball away or take some more shots downfield. That's not something to me is a concern today.''

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_browns_briefly_discu.html

 

 

This is gold. Reflecting back on Sunday, there wasn't many times Hoyer had a good pocket.

 

The Jags were creating too much pressure with blitzes against our newly aligned offense line. And when he had time he wasn't settled

 

Nothing a good week of tape watching cant fix right? Otherwise Johnny will be in there sooner or later.

[StocktonShorts]

 

Maybe you anticipate that you're team is actually going to start playing better as the year goes on?? No?

 

First year HC, Offensive system, and Defensive system... 3-3 early in the year is decent, especially with games against the Raiders and Bucs coming up...

 

Can't THIS team start playing better??????

 

You talk about low self-esteem... yet, you're already going with the "Well, there's always next year" approach... What about THIS year, and THIS team??

 

I'm not giving up, but it sounds like you already did... Some fan...

Does it look like the team is playing better? Not mention Mack being out all year, and the DLine is in shambles the rest of the year, did last week look like a step forward or backwards to you?

 

Lets use our brains people.

[Manzier]

I don't believe Pettine thinks he's one and done, not with this front office.I dont either. But I also think winning is everything to him.

 

One of them already agrees with me. Manziel playing is closer then you guys are realizing. Hoyer is very fortunate this week is the Raiders, bad team horrible defense, very easy week for him because if it was a good defense this week, that might be curtains. Thats very possible. Never said otherwise. In fact, just said we dont know "where" he is with the coaches(just one post back)

 

Raiders are giving up an 70% completion this year and an avg QB rating of 106. If Hoyer is worth anything he should be pretty near those numbers. Of course if Hoyer throws for 55% and has a QBR of 90 and we in you'll all be sucking his dick the next day, meanwhile he really played like shit. And comments like the last one are why I wont be carrying on further with this. You talk to me about being reasonable, then are completely disrespectful for no reason. I come here to talk sports, not deal with BS like you're throwing out.

How can I have a serious convo with a guy telling me about sucking dick???....You're an asshole.

[RoyceRolls]

I'm almost to the point where the main reason I want hoyer to play well is so Stockton crawls back under the bridge. The board is so annoying when it's high jacked by the church of Manziel. The first six weeks of the season was a real breath of fresh air, should've known it wouldn't last.

[StocktonShorts]

I'm almost to the point where the main reason I want hoyer to play well is so Stockton crawls back under the bridge. The board is so annoying when it's high jacked by the church of Manziel. The first six weeks of the season was a real breath of fresh air, should've known it wouldn't last.

Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.

 

How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.

 

I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.

[MLD Woody]

People really think this means Hoyer could lose the job? Lol. It's so Oakland has to spend time game planning for JF. That's it.

[Zombo]

Hoyer has played well enough to win in 5 of 6 games. Firmly his job. Awesome to have Johnny in the wings. But his fans need to shut the fuck up, it's not his time yet ... that time will come ... Hoyer's team, lets see how they rebound from their first meltdown.

 

Z

[PoeticG]

I would venture to say that he played well enough for them to win in 6 of 6 games Zombo. Hoyer would have had roughly 6 minutes or so to work his magic down by only 6 points in the 4th quarter. Who knows what would have happened had he actually been able to take the field at that time... Thanks to that muffed punt we will never know if he would have led down the field and won the game by one point.

[bringbackbrownie2]

[quote name="StocktonShorts" post="443215"

 

We scored 6 points on a defense who gave up over 100 in a 8 quarter period this year. SUre the Oline wasn't great, but it wasn't the worst of all time, Hoyer missed SEVERAL not just one, but SEVERAL wide open players for TDs. Just one of those chances that game. Don't tell me he's not the lion share. Whenever we beat Pittsburgh and he completes 8 passes and 49% you're on here telling me what a great QB he is, somehow that win is all Hoyer but this loss where he misses 25 of his 41 passes....against an awful defense, that isn't on Hoyer? Im the pathetic one? Comon.

 

Its real convenient of you to pick a random 8 quarter stretch for the jags defense to claim they suck. This is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of league and the jags have only allowed an avg of just over 10 pts a game over the past 3 games. 1st in the NFL. Now the jags offense sucks big donkey dick but their defense is playing well right now.

 

Hoyer isn't spectacular but is playing well enough to win including several clutch 4th quarter game-winning drives..

[cdl15]

Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.

 

How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.

 

I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.

Hoyer was 3-0 last year as a starter and he is 3-3.this year. Making him a 6-3 qb over 9 Fucking starts u Fucking toolbag. Exactly where and the hell is it soooooook obvious he is not a franshise guy. 6-3 for the BROWNS u fucking bandwagon toolbag.

 

Funny thing is Johnny gets hiss chance without Mack without Gordon with a piss poor wr core and inadequate o-line how long we have to hear the bullshit excuses how Johnny isn't getting a fair shake.

 

It's real easy u fag if JF gives the browns the best chance to win he starts. If he doest he sits exactly where he is sitting now. He got every shot known to man to start the season and he missed by a mile hell he was overwhelmed and sacked by a guy who isn't even in the league anymore. Go preach Ur shot somewhere else and quite tryin to convince everyone else that JF cock tastes better than anything in the world. Two words fuck off!!!!

[tiamat63]

Exactly what I mean, low self esteem.

 

People on this board don't want to be contenders, they just want to not be a laughingstock. Being "Better then we have been" doesn't make us great or even good.

 

I agree this is a building process and its a process that will span several seasons, not just this one, which is why I'm saying just trying to be 8-8 or maybe eek out the 6th seed this year is a worthless exercise. Build for the future, and in the future isn't Hoyer. The 8-8 and praying the AFC is bad enough that we can get the 6th seed is Hoyer. Competing for championships isn't Hoyer. Thus why not finding out what Manziel is right now, is only hurting the team, long term.

 

So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.

[StocktonShorts]

 

So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.

Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.

 

Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.

 

It happens all the time.

[bringbackbrownie2]

Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.

 

Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.

 

It happens all the time.

Yeah and the chiefs had 6 pro bowlers on that 2012 team. Add a competent QB in Alex smith in 2013 and the turnaround is not that surprising. Nice try though

[hoorta]

I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. He's hampered by inaccuracy, which has been there since college so its not like he's getting better, and news flash people, Brian Hoyer is 29 years old.

 

Lets wake up people. The Browns are 3-3 right now after playing the 30th ranked schedule to this point. With a loss to the Jags.

 

Quit being delusional about what's going on here

 

Delusional? The Browns are 3-3 going into a very winnable home game against the Raiders. Gasp!!! They're even favored!!! My God, how did the Steelers ever lose to the Bucs, or THE DEFENDING SUPER BOWL CHAMPION SEAHAWKS lose to a shitty team like the Rams? It happens, every week in the NFL.

 

Your Manziel fetish may gain some traction if Hoyer is yet again lousy come Sunday, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

As to "elite" quarterbacks in the NFL- Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, and Drew Brees are currently looking up at the Browns in the standings.

[RoyceRolls]

Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.

 

How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.

 

I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.

We get it, you've made your (one and only) point over and over again.

 

It's really amazing how you can find so many ways to say the same thing. What's more amazing is that you seemingly only have an opinion about that one topic.

 

What's funny is that when hoyer is playing well you're (thankfully) nowhere to be seen. Once hoyer shits the bed, however, we can't shut you up.

 

The worst is when you say things like "we" or "our" in reference to the Browns. You clearly don't give a fuck about the browns winning. all you care about is your ego and manziels cock, which explains why you stroke both constantly.

And before you reiterate your point for the millionth time, no one is falling for your faux fence-sitting on Manziel. You're a broken record with a thinly veiled agenda and to think you're insulting someone else's intelligence is laughable.

 

Jesus tap dancing titty fucking Christ you're boring.

[slowburn]

Hoys stepped on his dick last week in Jax. Show me a talented QB who doesn't have a bad day in the office on Sunday (or Monday, or Thursay) and I'll be first in line to send hoys to the pine. The fucker ain't superman

[Canton Mike]

The Coaches & Front Office will decide what is best for the Browns from week to week & season to season. They know more than we know.

While I love Manziels' skill set & think he may eventually be the "future", Hoyer is doing just fine, is proving to be a LEADER & yes, he had a bad game, ala Manning in last year's Super Bowl, yet no one screamed for Mannings' head.

Teams win & teams lose. QBs have good & bad games, but no old time Browns' Fan has seen better overall QB play/production in years than we are getting from Hoyer. Nothing wrong with liking Johnny, but keep it in perspective. He is playing behind a guy who is & has done well, has his teammates trusting him &, more important, has convinced the Coaches that he is the best chance to lead the Browns now.

My support goes to the players on the field & the coaches who decide to put them there.

 

Mike.

[calfoxwc]

The Coaches & Front Office will decide what is best for the Browns from week to week & season to season. They know more than we know.

While I love Manziels' skill set & think he may eventually be the "future", Hoyer is doing just fine, is proving to be a LEADER & yes, he had a bad game, ala Manning in last year's Super Bowl, yet no one screamed for Mannings' head.

Teams win & teams lose. QBs have good & bad games, but no old time Browns' Fan has seen better overall QB play/production in years than we are getting from Hoyer. Nothing wrong with liking Johnny, but keep it in perspective. He is playing behind a guy who is & has done well, has his teammates trusting him &, more important, has convinced the Coaches that he is the best chance to lead the Browns now.

My support goes to the players on the field & the coaches who decide to put them there.

 

Mike.

******************************************************************

EGGSFREAKIN EXACTLY ! And the above quote, comes from a guy who really

wanted us to draft Johnny Hastowaitandlearn, bigtime !

 

I disagreed with him, wasn't sure how his skills, while wild and successful in college, would translate

to the pros.

 

However, Canton Mike, one of those rare times we disagree on stuff, was CORRECT !

 

Johnny will have his time - and the more he learns, the more he will show what he can do. And yes, any qb

can have a rough outing. Brady has had a real tough time this year, and the questions were starting.

 

It happens. My opinion ? I think the last game, the Browns offense was pressing, had a ton of trouble

with an excellent front seven, and their timing went out the door.

 

The Jags just caught the Browns with three changes on their offensive line, and injuries to their defensive line.

 

The idea that they are the old, inept Jags of earlier years is bs. Go look at the talent they have. They are bound

to starting getting it together. Their HC just came on board in Jan, 2013.

 

It was bad timing for the Browns, and great timing for the Jags. It happens. It's the NFL, and the Browns

know what is going on and what they need to do.

[tiamat63]

Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.

 

Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.

 

It happens all the time.

 

And how many of those teams had good to great talent surrounding their QB before making the jump? Off the top of my head. 2011 Niners had an elite Oline, RB, TE and defense. The Hawks in 2012 had a rookie QB but again, a stud at RB and an elite defense. The 2013 Panthers had a good Oline, a promising young QB, some decent weapons on offense and a badass defense.

 

We seeing the trend yet?