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Ghoolie

POLL: When will Baker start?

[Poll] When will Baker start?  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. When will Baker make his first start?

    • Weeks 1-4
      3
    • Weeks 5-8
      2
    • Weeks 9-13
      18
    • Weeks 14-17
      5
    • 2019
      3


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Baker will play at the NYG,BUFF.(cal get your tickets Now;))Philly & at Detroit..In Pre-Season..After that, Get use to seeing his name on Inactive List..(he's got NFL work to do)

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13 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I think you haven't been paying attention to how the Browns do things... ^_^

or how any teams do things...

#1 overall(or hell just high round 1 in general) qbs dont sit the whole year anymore....they sit a few games, if that

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This is the same line of thought I initiated the Mayfield Mayehm thread. Redundant.

As I replied to Orion, you can create your little scenarios about how we should proceed... blah, blah. blah.. let tie rod do this....then let Mayfield do this......

Sorry, but you just cannot predict when Baker will start. There are a ton of variables involved and nobody here knows when the right time will be. Not even the coaches nor Dorsey know that. All this bullschidt about starting him when he is ready is absolute Browns, self-deprecating, annual stupidity.

If Mayfield shows up Tie Rod in camp and preseason, that means he is better. Period. It doesn't matter what his experience level is........... if he beats Tie Rod then CLEARLY, Tie Rod's "experience" doesn't amount to a hill of schidt. How much NFL experience did Sipe have when he rescued the Browns? How much " mentoring" did Brady have? Is the ideal situation to let Tie Rod help build the team, maybe win 7 or 8 games and then hand it off to Mayfield? Yeah.....for you pussies.

It doesn't matter if you think Mayfield is ready or not. If the Browns are 0 - 7, Haslam will face testicular amputation. NOBODY is going to put up for another year like that. We go 0 - a bunch, Mayfiled is going to be baptized by fire. That's just how it works. Nobody in their right mind sits their better QB. YOu can slobber all you want about the pro set, and blah blah blah,  but football is the game even a mental moron (Kosar) can master. It is 99% athleticism and natural instinct. If Mayfield is the schidt................. nobody in their right mind is going to play Tie Rod Tarlenton.

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I don't know if some of you guys are Millennials and Gen-Xs or what, but honestly, and I mean this respectfully, a lot of this tentative Baker stuff is really lacking testosterone and courage.

Baptism by fire doesn't ruin Quarterbacks. In only fast forwards the timeline for exposing schidt QBs. I disagree with Hoorta that Browns fans are impatient. 1 - 32 and we still show up? Schidt since 1999...................and we are impatient? WTF?

Look, if you are one of these people who believes in sitting a QB for a year to let him learn and develop, then honestly, you have to be critical of Dorsey. If bringing up a QB methodically was Dorsey's plan, then he should not have drafted a QB this year. He should have let Tie Rod establish himself with the team. He should have let all these new cats gel together, and THEN brought in a young QB in 2019, once the team was stabilized.

What we have to hope for is that the Browns come out an knock out a few wins, 2-6 at the split is not going to do it. 3 - 5 guarantees that the fans will accept the new regime's results as FINALLY being on the right track. I don't know what the 0 - ? number is, but God Forbid the Browns proceed 0-1  0-2  up to 0- something disgusting, Mayfield is going to start. There is just no way around it.

At that point, he either rises up as a savior, or fails amid a new argument of whether or not the Browns threw him to the dogs, or if he just wasn't big enough for the NFL.

Either way, the path to whether Baker is allowed to sit and be groomed will be directly proportional to whether or not Tie Rod can engineer some wins and create a team we care to watch.

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55 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Week 1, 2019

 

I think Tyrod is better than some of your are giving him credit for

I agree with that sentiment. I don't think the guy sucks by any stretch of the imagination. I do wonder what it was about him that made Buffalo so eager to dump him. Maybe whatever quarterbacking problems we had last year will at least seem a little bit better this year with him.

On the other hand sometimes I wonder what a kid can learn sitting on the bench as opposed to getting tossed into the fire. Not sure whether that hurt Kizer or if he was just not up to it.

WSS

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10 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Either way, the path to whether Baker is allowed to sit and be groomed will be directly proportional to whether or not Tie Rod can engineer some wins and create a team we care to watch.

Yep.

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Kizer was thrown into the fire with literally no help for over half of a season.

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5 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Sorry, but you just cannot predict when Baker will start.

Then, a few lines (and taunts) later...

5 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

It doesn't matter if you think Mayfield is ready or not. If the Browns are 0 - 7, Haslam will face testicular amputation. NOBODY is going to put up for another year like that. We go 0 - a bunch, Mayfiled is going to be baptized by fire. That's just how it works.

Yepp. That was consistent.

It's offseason, the days after Draft gifts. You cannot ask a 1-35 team fans not to wonder when will they see their new toys in action.

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6 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

I don't know if some of you guys are Millennials and Gen-Xs or what, but honestly, and I mean this respectfully, a lot of this tentative Baker stuff is really lacking testosterone and courage.

Baptism by fire doesn't ruin Quarterbacks. In only fast forwards the timeline for exposing schidt QBs. I disagree with Hoorta that Browns fans are impatient. 1 - 32 and we still show up? Schidt since 1999...................and we are impatient? WTF?

Look, if you are one of these people who believes in sitting a QB for a year to let him learn and develop, then honestly, you have to be critical of Dorsey. If bringing up a QB methodically was Dorsey's plan, then he should not have drafted a QB this year. He should have let Tie Rod establish himself with the team. He should have let all these new cats gel together, and THEN brought in a young QB in 2019, once the team was stabilized.

What we have to hope for is that the Browns come out an knock out a few wins, 2-6 at the split is not going to do it. 3 - 5 guarantees that the fans will accept the new regime's results as FINALLY being on the right track. I don't know what the 0 - ? number is, but God Forbid the Browns proceed 0-1  0-2  up to 0- something disgusting, Mayfield is going to start. There is just no way around it.

At that point, he either rises up as a savior, or fails amid a new argument of whether or not the Browns threw him to the dogs, or if he just wasn't big enough for the NFL.

Either way, the path to whether Baker is allowed to sit and be groomed will be directly proportional to whether or not Tie Rod can engineer some wins and create a team we care to watch.

I just think the front office wants to try things different, not rush a qb like they have. I love your points on Baker and Taylor both being zero and zero with the playera and coaches we have. The only difference right now is the time Taylor has put in. Baker is our future and if he shows he is ready then maybe the last 4 or 5 games. If we are gonna be shitty, its not gonna be because of Tyrod.

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Look, the simple truth here is that you don't go from 0-16 to a playoff team. We've improved dramatically, but realistically by week 10-12 we'll but sitting at +/- 3 wins and out of the playoff hunt. Unless Taylor brings a whole new gear to his game, he'll prove to be exactly what the Browns need to this point in the season. Start the rook at this point and see what happens. Taylor is a pretty legitimate starter in this league and we actually for the first time in a decade have a plan in place to not throw a QB into the fire. That doesn't mean the guy you drafted #1 should ride the plan for 3 years, but let's get some stability in place first.

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This is kind of what I was talking about before the draft.  The really bad news for us is how our schedule starts out.  Starting with the Steelers when you haven't won an opener since 'Nam is a real kick in the nuts, especially when it's the second year in a row.  Hopefully we have our punt protection shored up.  So we start with one playoff team, then visit ANOTHER on week 2, and THEN we play the following Thursday night against possibly our easiest opponent.  Yes, it's a home game, but you sure would like to see the Jets game coming after a normal week of practice.  Anyway, you can't fuss about the schedule too much, it is what it is.  The other kick in the pants was the NFL handing us the Texans as one of our "award for sucking" games.  Sure, the Texans were bad last year, but we know first hand what that team looks like with Watson playing QB, and they made some nice acquisitions.  

Why is this important?  Well, when you're 1-31 in two years, and you just draft a QB #1, there's going to be pressure to play him if you start out 0-5.  Hue Jackson is already on the shortest leash in the NFL I'd guess, so things could REALLY unravel quickly if we don't find a darn way to pick up some early victories.  Is it possible?  Sure.  Would I BET on it?  Never in a thousand years.  For the sake of argument, I'll say we somehow start the season...like...3-5.  Not really "in" wildcard contention, but not mathamatically eliminated either.  If that's the case, I think Tyrod stays at QB until around late November, or possibly after our bye if our QB play is really struggling.  If we start out 0-6...well...you might be seeing Baker sooner than you think.  

My HOPE is that we win some games and Tyrod stays in until late November, or even December.  To say our team is due for a couple breaks is a vast understatement, so if we don't catch a severe case of the "injury bug", Josh Gordon stays true, and our secondary improves, I can make the case that our roster is...well...kind of...decent?  Mind you I didn't say GOOD or anything like that, but when I look at the roster, I don't see 0-16 from last year.  

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4 hours ago, cambridgeho said:

I just think the front office wants to try things different, not rush a qb like they have. I love your points on Baker and Taylor both being zero and zero with the playera and coaches we have. The only difference right now is the time Taylor has put in. Baker is our future and if he shows he is ready then maybe the last 4 or 5 games. If we are gonna be shitty, its not gonna be because of Tyrod.

I always go back to the Bernie/Gary Danielson scenario.    No QB coming out has seemed more pro ready, more intelligent about the game, more mature as to be able to handle the demands of the NFL.......yet....Bernie had to sit a half season behind Danielson to learn some ropes. 

So....there is nothing wrong with a bit of patience.   But....if...by midseason it seem clear that the QB of the future should be given a shot.....and if that QB seems to be as ready, intelligent, and mature as Bernie was...then give him that shot.  That all remains to be seen with Mayfield.

(and...by the way....Bernie had as much "fire in his belly" as any QB had. Overall....he may not have been as demonstrative about it.....but I remember times when he was.  At times he would pound his fist and scream "let's play football like we know how". 

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11 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

I don't know if some of you guys are Millennials and Gen-Xs or what, but honestly, and I mean this respectfully, a lot of this tentative Baker stuff is really lacking testosterone and courage.

Baptism by fire doesn't ruin Quarterbacks. In only fast forwards the timeline for exposing schidt QBs. I disagree with Hoorta that Browns fans are impatient. 1 - 32 and we still show up? Schidt since 1999...................and we are impatient? WTF?

Look, if you are one of these people who believes in sitting a QB for a year to let him learn and develop, then honestly, you have to be critical of Dorsey. If bringing up a QB methodically was Dorsey's plan, then he should not have drafted a QB this year. He should have let Tie Rod establish himself with the team. He should have let all these new cats gel together, and THEN brought in a young QB in 2019, once the team was stabilized.........

Throwing a rookie quarterback in the fire especially on a bad team can be a disaster, remember Tim Couch? He got the living crap knocked out of him especially in years 1 and 2  (see stats, yes numbers). It can affect your entire professional career.

Passing 

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk
Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
Career       62 59 22-37-0 1025 1714 59.8 11131 64 3.7 67 3.9 79 6.5 5.5 10.9 179.5 75.1 166 1119 5.33 4.40 8.8 10 11 32
1999 22 CLE QB 2 15 14 2-12-0 223 399 55.9 2447 15 3.8 13 3.3 78 6.1 5.4 11.0 163.1 73.2 56 359 4.59 3.96 12.3 2 2 8
2001 24 CLE QB 2 16 16 7-9-0 272 454 59.9 3040 17 3.7 21 4.6 78 6.7 5.4 11.2 190.0 73.1 51 353 5.32 4.12 10.1 3 3 9
2002 25 CLE QB 2 14 14 8-6-0 273 443 61.6 2842 18 4.1 18 4.1 78 6.4 5.4 10.4 203.0 76.8 30 213 5.56 4.61 6.3 3 4 8
2003 26 CLE QB 2 10 8 3-5-0 120 203 59.1 1319 7 3.4 6 3.0 71 6.5 5.9 11.0 131.9 77.6 19 116 5.42 4.83 8.6 1 1 4
2000 23 CLE qb 2 7 7 2-5-0 137 215 63.7 1483 7 3.3 9 4.2 79 6.9 5.7 10.8 211.9 77.3 10 78 6.24 5.07 4.4 1 1 3

Bernie Kosar on the other hand was a gifted young quarterback on a COMPLETE team, different results. Same with Dan Marino and a very few others.

If you can sit a rookie quarterback it is a good idea. How would Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Matt Hasslebeck, Steve Young and others have fared as the 2017 BROWNS starter? Not good and would have fled the team at the first opportunity. It has virtually nothing to do with testosterone. :lol:

Oh I'm an older Boomer, son.

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I just made a post about the historical case of Bernie Kosar in another thread.   I repeat it basically here:    If Baker shows the intellect and maturity....and emotion to play soon, he would likely begin to start about mid season....as did Kosar.

Of course, all those "Bernie-like" elements have to be there. 

(I am not comparing Mayfield and Kosar style wise.....they are obviously not that similar in terms of size, speed etc......I am talking the intangibles it takes to be a good QB)

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On 4/28/2018 at 11:36 PM, Ghoolie said:

What happens in camp if Baker is clearly better than Tie Rod?

I am not stirring up schidt here, BUT.............if we are to believe anything about Mayfield, he is a balls-to-the-wall fighter. So what happens if he shows all the other QBs up? Does he sit the bench? And if he does sit regardless of his performance, will it make him bitter? If he shows Tie Rod up, would he deserve to start? Would that be another Kizer fiasco?

The Browns have set themselves up for another QB controversy IF Mayfield shows the veteran up. Especially if Tie Rod stars and once again the Browns find themselves in Goosegg town.

How will we evaluate Mayfield as better than Taylor before the start of the season? As we all know, preseason success is no indication of success during the  actual NFL season. Taking this into account, I would agree that, barring disaster, Tyrod should be the starter. Not necessarily for the entire season as I don't think that's likely. But I don't think that the evaluation can reliably be made early on. So, it's good for Baker to watch and learn the NFL game and learn. That said, I expect he will be the starter by week 6-8.

I don't think this transition would cause controversy. It would be a completely sensible way to move forward.

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55 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Throwing a rookie quarterback in the fire especially on a bad team can be a disaster, remember Tim Couch? He got the living crap knocked out of him especially in years 1 and 2  (see stats, yes numbers). It can affect your entire professional career.

Passing 

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk
Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
Career       62 59 22-37-0 1025 1714 59.8 11131 64 3.7 67 3.9 79 6.5 5.5 10.9 179.5 75.1 166 1119 5.33 4.40 8.8 10 11 32
1999 22 CLE QB 2 15 14 2-12-0 223 399 55.9 2447 15 3.8 13 3.3 78 6.1 5.4 11.0 163.1 73.2 56 359 4.59 3.96 12.3 2 2 8
2001 24 CLE QB 2 16 16 7-9-0 272 454 59.9 3040 17 3.7 21 4.6 78 6.7 5.4 11.2 190.0 73.1 51 353 5.32 4.12 10.1 3 3 9
2002 25 CLE QB 2 14 14 8-6-0 273 443 61.6 2842 18 4.1 18 4.1 78 6.4 5.4 10.4 203.0 76.8 30 213 5.56 4.61 6.3 3 4 8
2003 26 CLE QB 2 10 8 3-5-0 120 203 59.1 1319 7 3.4 6 3.0 71 6.5 5.9 11.0 131.9 77.6 19 116 5.42 4.83 8.6 1 1 4
2000 23 CLE qb 2 7 7 2-5-0 137 215 63.7 1483 7 3.3 9 4.2 79 6.9 5.7 10.8 211.9 77.3 10 78 6.24 5.07 4.4 1 1 3

Bernie Kosar on the other hand was a gifted young quarterback on a COMPLETE team, different results. Same with Dan Marino and a very few others.

If you can sit a rookie quarterback it is a good idea. How would Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Matt Hasslebeck, Steve Young and others have fared as the 2017 BROWNS starter? Not good and would have fled the team at the first opportunity. It has virtually nothing to do with testosterone. :lol:

Oh I'm an older Boomer, son.

I mean (and it pains me to say I'm with Ghoolie) the NFL has changed a ton in the past decade or so. The latest guy you have on your list (Romo) began his career in the NFL in 2004. Almost Every young and coming QB in recent memory has started from day 1 OR no more than the latter part of year 1 (like Goff). The only exceptions  (and granted, I'm doing this off the top of my head) I can think of are Jimmy G. and Mahomes (who we'll see about) in KC. It's a trend that can't be ignored. I'm not saying Mayfield should start week 1, in fact I've always lauded over Taylor and his ability to play the game. But the days of QB's riding the pine just aren't there. 

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Yes the NFL does change over the decades, always has and that will continue.  On the present quarterback situation in the NFL there is a real more recent demand which shows in younger players being thrown into the starting lineup earlier than ever and there are plenty more ~35+ year old guys about to retire (Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees - eventually among others).

Is there an advantage to starting rookies, no if you can wait.  I think they are having a tougher time finding 32 experienced starters and 32 backups. Colleges are going to more spread of fences and less traditional drop back passing.

Another thing is that players in ALL positions are coming out of college better trained since high school and better conditioned than ever and that trend will continue. 

But for teams like Cleveland there is a risk to rushing a quarterback out on the field too early in this "win now or else" coaching philosophy. I still say in the long run the teams are better off developing quarterbacks let's see if that happens in years to come. The 2018 QB class will be an interesting case study there.

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I believe he won't see enough reps in the 3 hole. Hue already said they won't share reps equally.  I do believe by seasons end Baker will take the job away from Tyrod.

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On 4/28/2018 at 11:36 PM, Ghoolie said:

What happens in camp if Baker is clearly better than Tie Rod?

I am not stirring up schidt here, BUT.............if we are to believe anything about Mayfield, he is a balls-to-the-wall fighter. So what happens if he shows all the other QBs up? Does he sit the bench? And if he does sit regardless of his performance, will it make him bitter? If he shows Tie Rod up, would he deserve to start? Would that be another Kizer fiasco?

The Browns have set themselves up for another QB controversy IF Mayfield shows the veteran up. Especially if Tie Rod stars and once again the Browns find themselves in Goosegg town.

How will we evaluate Mayfield as better than Taylor before the start of the season? As we all know, preseason success is no indication of success during the  actual NFL season. Taking this into account, I would agree with Jackson that, barring disaster, Tyrod should be the starter. Not necessarily for the entire season as I don't think that's likely. But I don't think that the evaluation can reliably be made early on. So, it's good for Baker to watch and learn the NFL game and learn. That said, I expect he will be the starter by week 6-8.

I don't think this transition would cause controversy. It would be a completely sensible way to move forward towards our future QB..

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4 minutes ago, TopDawg31 said:

I believe he won't see enough reps in the 3 hole. Hue already said they won't share reps equally.  I do believe by seasons end Baker will take the job away from Tyrod.

I can see Mayfield as the #2 guy, the one snap away guy sooner than later especially since Cleveland has such a tough time attracting good FA QBs.  

I was hoping for an A. Smith guy with Kizer and his one year as a professional QB as #1 & 2 but that sure never happened.

Let's hope this draft filled enough holes to be a serious team in 2019.

 

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5 minutes ago, hish747 said:

How will we evaluate Mayfield as better than Taylor before the start of the season? As we all know, preseason success is no indication of success during the  actual NFL season. Taking this into account, I would agree that, barring disaster, Tyrod should be the starter. Not necessarily for the entire season as I don't think that's likely. But I don't think that the evaluation can reliably be made early on. So, it's good for Baker to watch and learn the NFL game and learn. That said, I expect he will be the starter by week 6-8.

I don't think this transition would cause controversy. It would be a completely sensible way to move forward towards our future QB..

The 0-fer Kizer fiasco as some lie to put it was largely due to not having a reliable deep receiving core, hopefully that will be better plus Kizer needed more experience obviously and the play calling was very suspect at times.

And I've always believed you need offence, defense and special teams to be successful the secondary didn't help the cause and a lot of come from behind scenarios and too many poor field positions. I also wanted the best DE available. 

This won't be all Mayfield at least for the first half of the season I'm afraid the fans better get ready for a 4-6 win season anything over that will be well....exciting? 

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1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

I can see Mayfield as the #2 guy, the one snap away guy sooner than later especially since Cleveland has such a tough time attracting good FA QBs.  

I was hoping for an A. Smith guy with Kizer and his one year as a professional QB as #1 & 2 but that sure never happened.

Let's hope this draft filled enough holes to be a serious team in 2019.

 

how about filling enough holes to be a serious team in 2018?  

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5 minutes ago, mohican said:

how about filling enough holes to be a serious team in 2018?  

Or...this:

225px-Royal_Albert_Hall.001_-_London.JPG

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8 minutes ago, mohican said:

how about filling enough holes to be a serious team in 2018?  

OK,  Mohican....answer a question....about your screen name...and the river/territory it derives from:

Is it pronounced:

Mo-hee-can   or:

Mo-hick--an

h1pFUWW4CkclfEDEHQKyLxMi760zEoje13DZxlAS

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On 4/29/2018 at 12:15 AM, hoorta said:

The problem is- the horrendous impatience of the majority of Browns fans. Let's get real- we're staring an 0-2 start to the season, and how many more losses will it take for the fans to start screaming for Baker the Savior to take over? 

Let’s not forget the Hue factor.

The man is 1-31, and If Tyrod starts to flounder and the Browns are 0-4 or 0-5 out of the gate, I don’t think Hue will think twice about putting in Mayfield.

Especially if Mayfield is doing well in practice.

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19 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Let’s not forget the Hue factor.

The man is 1-31, and If Tyrod starts to flounder and the Browns are 0-4 or 0-5 out of the gate, I don’t think Hue will think twice about putting in Mayfield.

Especially if Mayfield is doing well in practice.

It won't save his job if he starts out like that.   JH may not want Hue to get his hands on his new prize possession and fuyuck him up.

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9 hours ago, mohican said:

how about filling enough holes to be a serious team in 2018?  

I guess that depends on how one defines serious. I put the 2018 total O/U on wins at about 5 1/2 right now.....maybe 4 1/2 might be better.

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Think about it..

Darnold-20

Rosen-21

Jackson-21

Mayfield-23

 

Not saying that he is old by any means, but for a prospect who is gonna sit and learn, you would think they would of taken someone a year or two younger..

My prediction is he is starting by week 8 if we are out of it. Gotta see what you have if Tyrod and Stanton can't produce.

 

Your thoughts?

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