POLL: When will Baker start?

[The Gipper]

No....Brian Sipe was drafted at the age of 23....then spent two years on the Taxi Squad.....then another couple of years playing here and there.

He did not become the Browns full time starter until age 27

....and he is still the Browns all time leader in  games started, attempts, completions etc.

It is not too late:

Passing

•  

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					125	112	57-55-0	1944	3439	56.5	23713	154	4.5	149	4.3	74	6.9	5.8	12.2	189.7	74.8	224	1889	5.96	4.97	6.1	17	23	88
1974	25	CLE	qb	17	10	5	2-3-0	59	108	54.6	603	1	0.9	7	6.5	37	5.6	2.9	10.2	60.3	47.0	15	122	3.91	1.51	12.2	1	2	3
1975	26	CLE	qb	17	7	2	0-2-0	45	88	51.1	427	1	1.1	3	3.4	22	4.9	3.5	9.5	61.0	54.5	8	58	3.84	2.65	8.3			2
1976	27	CLE	QB	17	14	12	7-5-0	178	312	57.1	2113	17	5.4	14	4.5	52	6.8	5.8	11.9	150.9	77.3	16	142	6.01	5.13	4.9	1	1	10
1977	28	CLE	QB	17	9	9	5-4-0	112	195	57.4	1233	9	4.6	14	7.2	52	6.3	4.0	11.0	137.0	61.8	16	114	5.30	3.17	7.6	2	2	6
1978	29	CLE	QB	17	16	16	8-8-0	222	399	55.6	2906	21	5.3	15	3.8	69	7.3	6.6	13.1	181.6	80.7	29	229	6.25	5.66	6.8	2	2	12
1979	30	CLE	QB	17	16	16	9-7-0	286	535	53.5	3793	28	5.2	26	4.9	74	7.1	5.9	13.3	237.1	73.4	43	347	5.96	4.91	7.4	5	7	14
1980*+	31	CLE	QB	17	16	16	11-5-0	337	554	60.8	4132	30	5.4	14	2.5	65	7.5	7.4	12.3	258.3	91.4	23	217	6.79	6.73	4.0	3	4	16
1981	32	CLE	QB	17	16	16	5-11-0	313	567	55.2	3876	17	3.0	25	4.4	62	6.8	5.5	12.4	242.3	68.2	34	310	5.93	4.63	5.7	2	2	10
1982	33	CLE	QB	17	6	6	2-4-0	101	185	54.6	1064	4	2.2	8	4.3	40	5.8	4.2	10.5	177.3	60.7	13	117	4.78	3.37	6.6	0	1	3
1983	34	CLE	QB	17	15	14	8-6-0	291	496	58.7	3566	26	5.2	23	4.6	66	7.2	6.2	12.3	237.7	79.1	27	233	6.37	5.39	5.2	1	2	12

[Tour2ma]

49 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said:

Not saying that he is old by any means, but for a prospect who is gonna sit and learn, you would think they would of taken someone a year or two younger..

My prediction is he is starting by week 8 if we are out of it. Gotta see what you have if Tyrod and Stanton can't produce.

Your thoughts?

Great question...

Assuming Mayfield is ready, i.e., knows the playbook, can get the playcalls out, can work from under Center and can make pre-snap reads, then once we are eliminated from the playoffs we can start looking for Baker to start.

But Mayfield has to be ready first.

We have 6 games after our Week 11 Bye Week... I think those are likely his.

[mjp28]

Age is just one factor, your physical tools, mental ability, team situation are more important. 

The Kizer experiment  is a good or bad example of how things can go rushing someone in to play the most important position in team sports.

[hoorta]

51 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said:

Think about it..

Darnold-20

Rosen-21

Jackson-21

Mayfield-23

Not saying that he is old by any means, but for a prospect who is gonna sit and learn, you would think they would of taken someone a year or two younger..

My prediction is he is starting by week 8 if we are out of it. Gotta see what you have if Tyrod and Stanton can't produce.

Your thoughts?

That would be a poor reason (age)  by a year or two, to pass on a player. I don't know what the Browns were thinking taking a flyer on Brandon Weeden who was 29 when we drafted him...  

The plus is Mayfield is the only one of the  five that passes the Parcells test of # years as a starter. 

2 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Great question...

Assuming Mayfield is ready, i.e., knows the playbook, can get the playcalls out, can work from under Center and can make pre-snap reads, then once we are eliminated from the playoffs we can start looking for Baker to start.

But Mayfield has to be ready first.

We have 6 games after our Week 11 Bye Week... I think those are likely his.

Looking at the schedule, hard to predict the Browns record at the bye. The rose colored glasses folks could say 7-3, or the boo birds 3-7.  I'm seeing an 0-2 start Tour.   

[jcam222]

51 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Great question...

Assuming Mayfield is ready, i.e., knows the playbook, can get the playcalls out, can work from under Center and can make pre-snap reads, then once we are eliminated from the playoffs we can start looking for Baker to start.

But Mayfield has to be ready first.

We have 6 games after our Week 11 Bye Week... I think those are likely his.

IF he can do everything you say above AND overall move the offense better than Tyrod he is the day one starter

[TexasAg1969]

51 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

We have 6 games after our Week 11 Bye Week... I think those are likely his.

Unless of course TT has us in the thick of the playoff picture. With all the changes and additions who knows.

[syd]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Great question...

Assuming Mayfield is ready, i.e., knows the playbook, can get the playcalls out, can work from under Center and can make pre-snap reads, then once we are eliminated from the playoffs we can start looking for Baker to start.

But Mayfield has to be ready first.

We have 6 games after our Week 11 Bye Week... I think those are likely his.

under Haley ben was in the shotgun 67% of play's 

[boo fagley]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

That would be a poor reason (age)  by a year or two, to pass on a player. I don't know what the Browns were thinking taking a flyer on Brandon Weeden who was 29 when we drafted him...  

The plus is Mayfield is the only one of the  five that passes the Parcells test of # years as a starter. 

Looking at the schedule, hard to predict the Browns record at the bye. The rose colored glasses folks could say 7-3, or the boo birds 3-7.  I'm seeing an 0-2 start Tour.   

If Taylor has the team winning and in the post season hunt it would be crazy to pull him and play Mayfield.

Hues job is on the line and there are other guys on the roster who want to win.

Mayfield should only play if all other options are exhausted. BTW Mayfield was the right pick too. Rumor is NE wanted him if he dropped lower in round 1.

 

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Looking at the schedule, hard to predict the Browns record at the bye. The rose colored glasses folks could say 7-3, or the boo birds 3-7.  I'm seeing an 0-2 start Tour.   

Ditto, h... and 2-4 after 6 with pressure building to start "the kid".

1 hour ago, jcam222 said:

IF he can do everything you say above AND overall move the offense better than Tyrod he is the day one starter

I have a hard time seeing a path to this eventuality, jcam. TT will get the ones vs the ones in Preseason, BM the 2s v 2s. So even if Baker posts the better stats, there will be that level of competition thing.

58 minutes ago, syd said:

under Haley ben was in the shotgun 67% of play's 

Interesting... but still leaves a third of the snaps.

That was allowed in large part due to Bell being very effective running out of the gun... something Crow was not good at. So bringing that frequency to us depends in large part on how proficient Hyde and Chubb are flanking the gun.

Did not see a lot of Hyde in SF, but what I saw seemed to feature him in either the "I" or singleback.

Chubb? More alongside the gun, but TBH I've a hard time separating his snaps from Michel's, who I think did most of his work from the gun.

[syd]

5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Ditto, h... and 2-4 after 6 with pressure building to start "the kid".

I have a hard time seeing a path to this eventuality, jcam. TT will get the ones vs the ones in Preseason, BM the 2s v 2s. So even if Baker posts the better stats, there will be that level of competition thing.

Interesting... but still leaves a third of the snaps.

That was allowed in large part due to Bell being very effective running out of the gun... something Crow was not good at. So bringing that frequency to us depends in large part on how proficient Hyde and Chubb are flanking the gun.

Did not see a lot of Hyde in SF, but what I saw seemed to feature him in either the "I" or singleback.

Chubb? More alongside the gun, but TBH I've a hard time separating his snaps from Michel's, who I think did most of his work from the gun.

But you also have to take into consideration on who was calling the plays last year and how it affected are skill players

[Tour2ma]

11 minutes ago, syd said:

But you also have to take into consideration on who was calling the plays last year and how it affected are skill players

If you are saying that Haley is better at adapting to skillsets available to him than Hue was, then I can't argue with that... few adapt worse than Hue.

[syd]

5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

If you are saying that Haley is better at adapting to skillsets available to him than Hue was, then I can't argue with that... few adapt worse than Hue.

Bingo baby that's exactly what i was saying ,Haley should coach to are players strength unlike hue's square peg into a round hole

[Orion]

6 hours ago, domcucch1994 said:

but for a prospect who is gonna sit and learn, you would think they would of taken someone a year or two younger..

They should ALL sit and learn the NFL game.  It's different.  It's faster.  More complicated.  

[Ghoolie]

On 4/30/2018 at 5:08 AM, cambridgeho said:

I just think the front office wants to try things different, not rush a qb like they have. I love your points on Baker and Taylor both being zero and zero with the playera and coaches we have. The only difference right now is the time Taylor has put in. Baker is our future and if he shows he is ready then maybe the last 4 or 5 games. If we are gonna be shitty, its not gonna be because of Tyrod.

Again, the time served being noted, the decisions of the coaches come down to whether the team is winning and soothing the fans. If we are at 0 - 7, I think decisions get made that aren't necessarily football smart, but instead marketing smart.

[Ghoolie]

On 4/30/2018 at 3:46 AM, Nero said:

Then, a few lines (and taunts) later...

Yepp. That was consistent.

It's offseason, the days after Draft gifts. You cannot ask a 1-35 team fans not to wonder when will they see their new toys in action.

Look dimple finger............. learn to comprehend. I am assuming you did not do well in English classes?

When I said "nobody can predict" when Baker will start, I meant it, and I did not contradict myself. The point I was making is that there are a ton of variables that will affect this. THe point I was making is that even Hue and Dorsey don't know when Baker will start. The point I was making was that no matter what the staff decides............ IF the Browns go 0 - 7, there might very well be so much pressure from the fans, and embarrassment on Haslam that Baker could get called up. I never said he WILL. Along the same lines, management can say they are sitting him most of the season, but should Tie Rod get hurt....................the plan to start Baker changes. Likewise, if the kid show up Black Tarkenton in camp and preseason, management may scrap the plans to sit Baker and fire him right up.

This is not something that anyone can predict.

[Ghoolie]

3 hours ago, syd said:

But you also have to take into consideration on who was calling the plays last year and how it affected are skill players

HUe will STILL be calling the plays, The OC only does what the HC gives him a map to do. OC = Coffee Fetcher.  Hue Jackson has Dee's approval, so he rules and runs this team.

[Ghoolie]

On 4/30/2018 at 7:05 AM, jrb12711 said:

Look, the simple truth here is that you don't go from 0-16 to a playoff team. We've improved dramatically, but realistically by week 10-12 we'll but sitting at +/- 3 wins and out of the playoff hunt. Unless Taylor brings a whole new gear to his game, he'll prove to be exactly what the Browns need to this point in the season. Start the rook at this point and see what happens. Taylor is a pretty legitimate starter in this league and we actually for the first time in a decade have a plan in place to not throw a QB into the fire. That doesn't mean the guy you drafted #1 should ride the plan for 3 years, but let's get some stability in place first.

Horseschidt. We haven't done Jack schidt. Every year you blowholes say the same thing in the off season...." We've improved dramatically". We haven't played a fukcking game, SOrry Sparky, we HAVE NOT IMPROVED. All we have done is added new faces. That has no guarantee of schidt.

[syd]

5 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

HUe will STILL be calling the plays, The OC only does what the HC gives him a map to do. OC = Coffee Fetcher.  Hue Jackson has Dee's approval, so he rules and runs this team.

then were doomed i tell ya doomed But it makes me wonder why haley would take the job if he was not given play calling duties and from what i have read that is the case

[Dutch Oven]

15 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Horseschidt. We haven't done Jack schidt. Every year you blowholes say the same thing in the off season...." We've improved dramatically". We haven't played a fukcking game, SOrry Sparky, we HAVE NOT IMPROVED. All we have done is added new faces. That has no guarantee of schidt.

 

[PoeticG]

The Baker Mayfield Era will start sooner than later. I don't know if you can sit a guy like this. If he's all we hope for and more the team will demand to play for Baker. He's their leader now- likely they won't declare Mayfield the starter because it'd be stupid. They want Mayfield to beat Taylor for it. They did the same thing last year with Kizer... magically rising in the ranks each preseason game and declared he won it. The situation may be the same but the QBs are very different, therefor the results will be different as well. Dorsey may be "in charge" now but Hue's gonna do what Hue's gonna do. 

I think Mayfield does start the opener in Cleveland- the mania will be tangible- and if he is able to beat the Steelers and win our first home opener this decade, a legend will be born. 

[PoeticG]

 

[cambridgeho]

48 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Again, the time served being noted, the decisions of the coaches come down to whether the team is winning and soothing the fans. If we are at 0 - 7, I think decisions get made that aren't necessarily football smart, but instead marketing smart.

Agreed. Greg will be head coach if we are 0 and 7.

[Bob806]

On 4/29/2018 at 12:15 AM, hoorta said:

The problem is- the horrendous impatience of the majority of Browns fans. Let's get real- we're staring an 0-2 start to the season, and how many more losses will it take for the fans to start screaming for Baker the Savior to take over? 

They're beating Pittsburgh in the opener. Book it.

[jcam222]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie said:

HUe will STILL be calling the plays, The OC only does what the HC gives him a map to do. OC = Coffee Fetcher.  Hue Jackson has Dee's approval, so he rules and runs this team.

I do not believe this will be the case at all. Haley is THE man for calling plays and designing the offense. I'm sure Hue and he will work on the game plan but play to play in game is Haley. 

[Dutch Oven]

46 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

The Baker Mayfield Era will start sooner than later. I don't know if you can sit a guy like this. If he's all we hope for and more the team will demand to play for Baker. He's their leader now- likely they won't declare Mayfield the starter because it'd be stupid. They want Mayfield to beat Taylor for it. They did the same thing last year with Kizer... magically rising in the ranks each preseason game and declared he won it. The situation may be the same but the QBs are very different, therefor the results will be different as well. Dorsey may be "in charge" now but Hue's gonna do what Hue's gonna do. 

I think Mayfield does start the opener in Cleveland- the mania will be tangible- and if he is able to beat the Steelers and win our first home opener this decade, a legend will be born. 

I'd like to think Mayfield sits until AT LEAST the bye week, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if he starts Week 1. 

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie said:

Look dimple finger............. learn to comprehend. I am assuming you did not do well in English classes?

LOL! I'd say his English is far better than many on here and not bad at all for a guy who has lived in Pamplona, Spain all his life learning English as a second language.

EDIT: And living that close to France I'm betting he knows a bit about French too. Maybe even some Italian as well. Am I giving you too much credit there Nero?

[Ghoolie]

As I said,

If Mayfield outperforms Tie Rod................. which he will, then the Browns have a problem sitting the kid.

Also.......... TieRod is Black Tarkenton. Run first QBs get hurt, and in Cleveland? I promise you, if Taylor does start, he will get fukcked up before too long. Mayfield is NOT going to be on the bench for the majority of the season. You would have to be a fool to think that.

[Orion]

On 4/29/2018 at 11:12 PM, Ghoolie said:

Sorry, but you just cannot predict when Baker will start. There are a ton of variables involved and nobody here knows when the right time will be. Not even the coaches nor Dorsey know that

True Dat.

And PoG showed us a video of all the #1 pick QB's in recent history...and how many started week one.  I think the difference here is that we knew we were taking a QB #1 overall.  AND we traded for an experienced QB to start for us so that our #1 pick QB would NOT play.  We have an actual plan.  

As you say Ghoolie (won't call you Ghoul if you play nice), Then life happens and all bets are off.  Yup, if Baker learns the playbook better than TieRod...if he practices better than TieRod...if he plays better than TieRod.  But that's an awful lot of if's for a rookie QB.  Kizer started last year, but like I said last year, the bar for him was low.  We had inexperienced bums that he had to beat out.   The bar is higher this year for Baker.

Yes, we have a trigger fingered owner who will want Baker playing if we're losing.  And we have Hue who will, again this year, do anything he can to save his job...including playing Mayfield when he may not be ready.  

TieRod has learned an NFL playbook before.  TieRod has experienced the speed of the NFL.  He's taken snaps under center, called out protections, identified blitzers, called audibles, etc.  Baker needs to learn a lot of that.

I hope we win some games so that Baker can come in and take over when he has control of what he's been taught.  (I can hope, right?)

[Nero]

6 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Look dimple finger............. learn to comprehend. I am assuming you did not do well in English classes?

When I said "nobody can predict" when Baker will start, I meant it, and I did not contradict myself. The point I was making is that there are a ton of variables that will affect this. THe point I was making is that even Hue and Dorsey don't know when Baker will start. The point I was making was that no matter what the staff decides............ IF the Browns go 0 - 7, there might very well be so much pressure from the fans, and embarrassment on Haslam that Baker could get called up. I never said he WILL. Along the same lines, management can say they are sitting him most of the season, but should Tie Rod get hurt....................the plan to start Baker changes. Likewise, if the kid show up Black Tarkenton in camp and preseason, management may scrap the plans to sit Baker and fire him right up.

This is not something that anyone can predict.

I was trying to pull your leg there, lol. I understood what you meant, but I was trying to imply the bit that I didn't quote, the "Browns fans annual deprecating themselves". Because your thinking isn't that far off of some who you call are self deprecating themselves, so there's no need to say that, in my point of view. 

Of course nobody can predict what will happen, we can only make scenarios in our minds, you and the ones you accuse make them, all the time. And that's what this Board is all about. 

I'm assuming you did not well in English classes?

At least in my case it was my third language classes behind Spanish and Basque!

5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL! I'd say his English is far better than many on here and not bad at all for a guy who has lived in Pamplona, Spain all his life learning English as a second language.

EDIT: And living that close to France I'm betting he knows a bit about French too. Maybe even some Italian as well. Am I giving you too much credit there Nero?

I've only lived in an English speaking country for two months when I went to work as a waiter in London back when I was 20. 

Currently I'd say that the order is Spanish, English, Basque (sadly because I don't use it and I'm losing practise). Then I speak a little bit of French and German. I'm planning to learn both. 

I have never learnt Italian, I just know a few words like everyone else, but it is said that for Spaniards it takes just 1-2 years to speak Italian quite fluently and vice versa. So I don't take it out of my wish list.

[Ghoolie]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

True Dat.

And PoG showed us a video of all the #1 pick QB's in recent history...and how many started week one.  I think the difference here is that we knew we were taking a QB #1 overall.  AND we traded for an experienced QB to start for us so that our #1 pick QB would NOT play.  We have an actual plan.  

As you say Ghoolie (won't call you Ghoul if you play nice), Then life happens and all bets are off.  Yup, if Baker learns the playbook better than TieRod...if he practices better than TieRod...if he plays better than TieRod.  But that's an awful lot of if's for a rookie QB.  Kizer started last year, but like I said last year, the bar for him was low.  We had inexperienced bums that he had to beat out.   The bar is higher this year for Baker.

Yes, we have a trigger fingered owner who will want Baker playing if we're losing.  And we have Hue who will, again this year, do anything he can to save his job...including playing Mayfield when he may not be ready.  

TieRod has learned an NFL playbook before.  TieRod has experienced the speed of the NFL.  He's taken snaps under center, called out protections, identified blitzers, called audibles, etc.  Baker needs to learn a lot of that.

I hope we win some games so that Baker can come in and take over when he has control of what he's been taught.  (I can hope, right?)

I don't have a disagreement with any of this. I do believe that there is a tendency, maybe even wishful thinking every year that finally the Browns have a common sense plan in place for rearing the new QB. I have never believed this to be the case, and hence a lot of guys argue with me, and of course get the fire of Ghoolie. On the surface, it looks good. Seasoned Vet to give the new kid a stay of execution, give the Browns a chance to groom the guy for a year.... learn the nuances, learn the schemes, etc etc etc.

Do you think that's what management is hoping for? A good solid year from Tie Rod and then Baker eases into the scene?

I really don't believe that at all. I believe TieRod is nothing more than an insurance policy, a buffer if you will. Follow with me.

1) If Tie Rod plays well, we winn 6, 7,8 or more games, management wins. They look good, Baker isn't thrown to the wolves.

2) Tie Rod blows, Haslam forces his hand and play Baker. Baker amazes, Jimmy looks great. Baker blows, Jimmy blames it on Tie Rod no holding his end down.

I don't think anyone in management sees any path where Baker does not, at some point in 2018 assume ownership of the team. He has to. You can't have the #1 pick on the bench all year, then Tie Rod going 10 -6, so now, why even bring Baker in, the case could be made. There is a high probability that Tie rod Tarkenton is going to get hurt. I really believe this. I believe he was brought in as a fluffer.

We shall see.