2018 NFL DRAFT - FIRST ROUND QUARTERBACK SCORECARD - Winners and losers (?)

[mjp28]

2018 NFL DRAFT - FIRST ROUND QUARTERBACK SCORECARD - Winners and losers (?)

After a quite spirited 2018 NFL Draft season a look back on the R1 quarterback derby, for all 32 picks see the link. I can not really see any big losers in all of R1 just some happy and very happy guys.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/2018/04/27/2018-nfl-draft-1st-round-rookie-salary-projections-what-mayfield-barkley-and-darnold-will-make/#201a500c4581

PICK TEAM PLAYER TOTAL CONTRACT SIGNING BONUS

1 Browns   Baker Mayfield $33,158,294 $22,185,523
3 Jets   Sam Darnold     $30,685,571    $20,387,178
7 Bills   Josh Allen     $21,481,462     $13,693,282
10 Cardinals   Josh Rosen     $17,841,032     $11,045,697
32 Ravens   Lamar Jackson     $9,589,930     $5,044,895

You can use this list as a guide for the other R1 players and their approximate contracts and signing bonuses, a lot was at stake for these young men just starting out in their first real jobs in life.

[mjp28]

Not that you can do it and hindsight is always 20/20 but you wonder say if the BROWNS,  Jets or Bills  wanted to trade down and reconfigure their R1 picks what might have happened?  More R1 picks and still got a top quarterback? 

Well it was fun.

[Tour2ma]

Just an aside and not sure we need one, but the rookie pay schedule could serve as another value chart for trading picks.

Quick glance would seem to place it between the original JJ and revamped Harvard charts.

[mjp28]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Just an aside and not sure we need one, but the rookie pay schedule could serve as another value chart for trading picks.

Quick glance would seem to place it between the original JJ and revamped Harvard charts.

Yes, especially if you are cap tight.

And maybe a bit tounge-in-cheek is a Mayfield = a Rosen + Jackson? A two-fer and maybe an additional R1 pick? Hmmmm, still bag Ward and maybe Chubb?

The fun is endless! (well maybe a bit stupid too  )

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, mjp28 said:

2018 NFL DRAFT - FIRST ROUND QUARTERBACK SCORECARD - Winners and losers (?)

After a quite spirited 2018 NFL Draft season a look back on the R1 quarterback derby, for all 32 picks see the link. I can not really see any big losers in all of R1 just some happy and very happy guys.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/2018/04/27/2018-nfl-draft-1st-round-rookie-salary-projections-what-mayfield-barkley-and-darnold-will-make/#201a500c4581

PICK TEAM PLAYER TOTAL CONTRACT SIGNING BONUS

1 Browns   Baker Mayfield $33,158,294 $22,185,523
3 Jets   Sam Darnold     $30,685,571    $20,387,178
7 Bills   Josh Allen     $21,481,462     $13,693,282
10 Cardinals   Josh Rosen     $17,841,032     $11,045,697
32 Ravens   Lamar Jackson     $9,589,930     $5,044,895

You can use this list as a guide for the other R1 players and their approximate contracts and signing bonuses, a lot was at stake for these young men just starting out in their first real jobs in life.

Ignoring the money completely....because as fans that is what we should do, because we neither have to pay or get paid any of it......I do not see how ANYONE can claim  "winners and losers"  of this draft.  At all.

As I said time and time again...you assess it 3-5 years down the line.   There is another thread on here where I did just that. And while in some of those drafts, pundits may have declared the Browns winners.....they were pretty much losers all the way.

Weeden and Richardson....FIRST round victory?   Fuhuck no

Gilbert and Manziel...first round victory?....FUYUCK no

Shelton and Erving...first round victory?  Fuyuckin Fuhuck no.

Call us in 3 years.

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Ignoring the money completely....because as fans that is what we should do, because we neither have to pay or get paid any of it......I do not see how ANYONE can claim  "winners and losers"  of this draft.  At all.

As I said time and time again...you assess it 3-5 years down the line.   There is another thread on here where I did just that. And while in some of those drafts, pundits may have declared the Browns winners.....they were pretty much losers all the way.

 

 

I always look at the money as a guide for the relative value of the players as picked by all 32 war rooms and set by the CBA.

And yes R3 players make less than R1 players at least initially. 

The final proof of everything is always in the pudding.....whether it's rice or our favorite football team.  

 

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

I always look at the money as a guide for the relative value of the players as picked by all 32 war rooms and set by the CBA.

Value to what?  Value to who? What is the effing point of that?  To just see who gets paid more.  That is easy.....the pay scale says #1 pick gets the most money, #2 gets second most...etc. etc.  What useful information does that really give any of us?   It is no predictor of how that player will ultimately play...it is just a predictor of what they will get paid.  And what fan gives a cabbage fart about that?

And yes R3 players make less than R1 players at least initially. 

The final proof of everything is always in the pudding.....whether it's rice or our favorite football team.  

Sure...the proof is in the pudding 5 years down the line when these guys come up for their second contract....and then they can be paid according to their "value"...i.e.  the quality and quantity of their on field performance.    But 5 years down the line I suspect that a few  of these first rounders will no longer be in the league even.  E.g.  according to what I find, from 2013  #9 pick Milliner, #24 Werner, and #32 Matt Elam are no longer even in the league.  And from 2014..of course...the two players from that first round that are no longer in the leauge? Both Browns...Gilbert and Manziel.

 

 

[mjp28]

 

Value to what?  Value to who? What is the effing point of that?  To just see who gets paid more.  That is easy.....the pay scale says #1 pick gets the most money, #2 gets second most...etc. etc.  What useful information does that really give any of us?   It is no predictor of how that player will ultimately play...it is just a predictor of what they will get paid.  And what fan gives a cabbage fart about that?

Value to each other plus skill of the FO to put a team together that is built around the salary cap.

A big game of MONOPOLY only with helmets and pads. 

[The Gipper]

2 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

 

 

Value to each other plus skill of the FO to put a team together that is built around the salary cap.

A big game of MONOPOLY only with helmets and pads. 

 

Here is where the big fallacy here is:  Right now there is NO effing value to any of this.   

Tell me what "value" you could place on the Browns 2014 draft in the couple of weeks after that one happened?  I am sure it would have been considered of very, very high value.  A franchise QB and a shutdown corner....Browns stars of the fuyucking future, right?  High value draft, right.

The biggest pile of shite draft in the history of the draft perhaps.   THAT is what that drafts value was.  The ONLY two members of that first round that are now out of football were taken by the Browns. 

So...if you were playing Monopoly with that draft.....you are either permanently in Jail, or fuyucking Bankrupt. 

So...there isn't ONE Godddamned bit of value to any of these draft picks until they start playing real games.   Then we shall see.

[mjp28]

If you screw up big time with your draft -and- also FA signings you can be screwed up for years to come.

Same for MLB too. It's a  numbers game, accountants can carry as much or more weight than scouts.

[Tour2ma]

and yet another Gip derail attempt...

[Orion]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

and yet another Gip derail attempt...

I hear what Gipper is saying.  It's funny money.  Based on where the player was drafted.  Which is educated guesses by the GM's (teams) that drafted them.

Based on the rookie contract Rosen would've been the loser.  ( some thanks can go to his big mouthed ex coach ) 

Interesting how so much money is paid to a QB picked high in the draft....yet, the want is for him to not play in his first year...thus looking like a complete waste of money.

[TexasAg1969]

The NFL Network guys Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller on "Movin' the Chains" yesterday were saying that since last fall and leading up to and including the Browns draft of him, they thought that Mayfield would be the first one to break through as a starter among all the potential QBs in this draft. And they disagreed with Jackson saying that TT is the starter before they have even had a full team practice. They think Mayfield is good enough to beat out TT for the starters role from game one.

IMO those are the two best as a team on NFL Radio. They really know their football. Well worth listening to as I go to racquetball every day.

[gumby73]

9 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

The NFL Network guys Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller on "Movin' the Chains" yesterday.

IMO those are the two best as a team on NFL Radio. They really know their football. Well worth listening to as I go to racquetball every day.

I also agreed with them that Haley is formulating your offense playbook but Hue has his choice of QB?..Maybe not the biggest hole in the boat,thinking Mayfield will be fine in a Tyrod system with a better deep ball than Taylor..Dorsey by trade deadline will have a answer on regaining a 3rd round pick on Tyrod, reguardless of HueJax..

[TexasAg1969]

2 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

I also agreed with them that Haley is formulating your offense playbook but Hue has his choice of QB?..Maybe not the biggest hole in the boat,thinking Mayfield will be fine in a Tyrod system with a better deep ball than Taylor..Dorsey by trade deadline will have a answer on regaining a 3rd round pick on Tyrod, reguardless of HueJax..

I don't think we can take a chance on injury to Mayfield, so it would really surprise me if we tried to trade TT who is on a 1 year contract anyway. He is UFA in 2019.

[Zombo]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

The NFL Network guys Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller on "Movin' the Chains" yesterday were saying that since last fall and leading up to and including the Browns draft of him, they thought that Mayfield would be the first one to break through as a starter among all the potential QBs in this draft. And they disagreed with Jackson saying that TT is the starter before they have even had a full team practice. They think Mayfield is good enough to beat out TT for the starters role from game one.

IMO those are the two best as a team on NFL Radio. They really know their football. Well worth listening to as I go to racquetball every day.

Aren't you getting a little long in the tooth for racquetball? "Pickleball" is taking off here in Naples. I think it is a whiffle ball and a badmitton racquet. Easier on old legs I guess. 

No offense.

Zombo

[TexasAg1969]

57 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Aren't you getting a little long in the tooth for racquetball? "Pickleball" is taking off here in Naples. I think it is a whiffle ball and a badmitton racquet. Easier on old legs I guess. 

No offense.

Zombo

As my ole granny used to say, "You're only as old as you feel." She made it to 98. I'm hoping to die from a head first dive for the ball in the front corner at 99.

Besides when I whip up on one of these 1/3 my age whippersnappers I just tell them, "Old age experience and guile wins in the end."

Of course it also helps to have 40+ years to develop the perfect wraparound rollout shot to either corner from any spot on the court. LOL!

[The Gipper]

16 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

and yet another Gip derail attempt...

 And why would you want everyone to be tunnel visioned in the conversations that take place on here. 

Any time I don't stick to what you think should be the dogma that must be followed in these conversations you whine whine about it like a little bitch...like you did here.

Maybe you should take another board hiatus if you can't handle the emotional or intellectual demands of a fluid conversation; if you can't take it that there is some contrary discourse that occurs.  You need to find a safe place that won't upset you.  Maybe a place that talks about how cute kittens are.

[Orion]

6 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

they disagreed with Jackson saying that TT is the starter before they have even had a full team practice.

Well, I disagree with 'they'. 

I think that Hue did the right thing be saying, before & after the draft, that TieRod was the starter.  1)  He's been in the league and has BEEN a starter.  He was brought here to be the starter and he took the Bills to the playoffs last year.  2)  It alerts the draft pick (turned out to be Baker) that he's not going to be handed the starting role.  -  (I don't always side with Hue)

[gumby73]

https://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-team-by-team-depth-charts-2018-nfl-draft/dqwmovshyin1szrr3sfoyns5   more reasons to never trust your weatherman..seem to be a fair QB ranking? or do they like the O weapons that Hue seems to have popping out his eyeballs now?  

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

https://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-team-by-team-depth-charts-2018-nfl-draft/dqwmovshyin1szrr3sfoyns5   more reasons to never trust your weatherman..seem to be a fair QB ranking? or do they like the O weapons that Hue seems to have popping out his eyeballs now?  

Well.....it looks to me that this ranking  is ALL about who the starter is for the most part:  Other than the Eagles, I do NOT see the other like Top 5 being very strong at all in the backup department.    The Saints, Pats, Steelers, Packers, Chargers, Seahawks, Falcons....are ALL about the starter, not the backup.

A more interesting ranking would be to list who you think have the best backup QBs ....which I think would make the overall list look a lot different, though a couple of the top ones still may be in there.

I do think the Eagles with Foles would still rank at the very top....and the Pats with Hoyer would be OK.  Others that are way down on that list that might rise just based on the backup alone:   Falcons with Matt Schaub; Redskins with Colt McCoy; Jets with Bridgewater, Cards with Glennon, Buc with Fitzpatrick.

So....like I said, I think this list just says:  who has the best starting QBs....and oddly, they put the Browns now right in the middle of the league with Taylor.

[Nero]

15 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well.....it looks to me that this ranking  is ALL about who the starter is for the most part:  Other than the Eagles, I do NOT see the other like Top 5 being very strong at all in the backup department.    The Saints, Pats, Steelers, Packers, Chargers, Seahawks, Falcons....are ALL about the starter, not the backup.

A more interesting ranking would be to list who you think have the best backup QBs ....which I think would make the overall list look a lot different, though a couple of the top ones still may be in there.

I do think the Eagles with Foles would still rank at the very top....and the Pats with Hoyer would be OK.  Others that are way down on that list that might rise just based on the backup alone:   Falcons with Matt Schaub; Redskins with Colt McCoy; Jets with Bridgewater, Cards with Glennon, Buc with Fitzpatrick.

So....like I said, I think this list just says:  who has the best starting QBs....and oddly, they put the Browns now right in the middle of the league with Taylor.

If there's a position that is all about the starter, it is QB. The backup only plays garbage time and when the starter gets injured, and you cannot predict those. 

[boo fagley]

On 5/7/2018 at 10:53 AM, The Gipper said:

Ignoring the money completely....because as fans that is what we should do, because we neither have to pay or get paid any of it......I do not see how ANYONE can claim  "winners and losers"  of this draft.  At all.

As I said time and time again...you assess it 3-5 years down the line.   There is another thread on here where I did just that. And while in some of those drafts, pundits may have declared the Browns winners.....they were pretty much losers all the way.

Weeden and Richardson....FIRST round victory?   Fuhuck no

Gilbert and Manziel...first round victory?....FUYUCK no

Shelton and Erving...first round victory?  Fuyuckin Fuhuck no.

Call us in 3 years.

Hold the phone.

Shelton had a really good year in Ray Hortons 3 - 4 as a NT. The Patriots were looking for a 1st round NT to replace Wilfork but the Browns took him.NE got Malcom Brown who has been somewhat underwhelming. NEs run defense was ranked 30th last year. If they improve to be as good as the Browns 5th ranked this season Shelton will have been 1st round worthy because good NTs are rare.

 

[boo fagley]

On 5/8/2018 at 6:26 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

The NFL Network guys Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller on "Movin' the Chains" yesterday were saying that since last fall and leading up to and including the Browns draft of him, they thought that Mayfield would be the first one to break through as a starter among all the potential QBs in this draft. And they disagreed with Jackson saying that TT is the starter before they have even had a full team practice. They think Mayfield is good enough to beat out TT for the starters role from game one.

IMO those are the two best as a team on NFL Radio. They really know their football. Well worth listening to as I go to racquetball every day.

That is a great show. Very informative.

But they are wrong about Hue. Hue basically said that its Taylors job to lose. Which it is. He has the experience to start out there today. Between the lines Hue also said that Mayfield, if you want this job, you better put in the extra work to take it away from a Vet.

Competition. Mayfield wants to play now and is hopefully nipping at Taylors heels. Taylor is pushed by Mayfield and could lose his job if he does not bust his axx.

[mjp28]

6 hours ago, Nero said:

If there's a position that is all about the starter, it is QB. The backup only plays garbage time and when the starter gets injured, and you cannot predict those. 

That is so true especially in the great US of A where we pay our quarterbacks like kings! For example ATL QB Matt Ryan made more than the entire CFL payroll just recently, no kidding that is a fact.

Is this a great country or what! 

[mjp28]

"Everything in life is relative."

https://gazettereview.com/2017/05/average-cfl-player-salary-how-much-do-cfl-players-make/

.......You read that right, out of the 9 teams and around 44 players per team, the average salary of a player is only around $80,000. Now, this can expand to over $400,000 per year for quarterbacks, but can be as little as just over $42,000 per year as a minimum payment for someone who often sits on the bench. For reference, this means that if everyone on a team averaged a salary of the aforementioned $80,000 a year, the top player in the NFL in terms of earnings Peyton Manning, with a salary of $42.4 Million with both endorsements and salary could pay for 530 CFL players or about 12 teams worth. This means that Peyton Manning’s salary alone could pay about the entire leagues player salaries, add three more teams and still have about a million and a half dollars left over. This is partially due to the fact that the CFL has a strict salary cap for entire teams, currently just over $5 Million USD and this certainly cuts into the players Ferarri funds. But say you don’t mind the salary cut and want to give it a go playing for the CFL to represent your favorite Canadian province or team. How do you get to become a CFL player? Let’s take a look.......

[The Gipper]

8 hours ago, Nero said:

If there's a position that is all about the starter, it is QB. The backup only plays garbage time and when the starter gets injured, and you cannot predict those. 

Right....that is why I say that this ranking of the QB "room"  is really all about the starters.  About the only one where the entire "room" is a factor, is the Eagles, because of what just happened.

But, I say, if you take the backup QBs from the #32 ranked "QB room here"....and put those guys behind Rodgers etc.....that room would still be ranked like #2.    The backups would not matter.

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Hold the phone.

Shelton had a really good year in Ray Hortons 3 - 4 as a NT. The Patriots were looking for a 1st round NT to replace Wilfork but the Browns took him.NE got Malcom Brown who has been somewhat underwhelming. NEs run defense was ranked 30th last year. If they improve to be as good as the Browns 5th ranked this season Shelton will have been 1st round worthy because good NTs are rare.

 

Well....whatever the deal is with Shelton.....he was obviously  considered expendable....because they traded him.

Perhaps they did do him a favor by sending him to a team that runs a defense more suited to his style/talent. Maybe he fits better as a 3-4 nose, not a 4-3 DT.

So, we shall see how he does there.

But...the bottom line for us is:  he IS another former first round pick that they got rid of.  So what good is he to us now other than what he brought in trade.   (which perhaps someone can refresh our memories about).

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, mjp28 said:

"Everything in life is relative."

https://gazettereview.com/2017/05/average-cfl-player-salary-how-much-do-cfl-players-make/

.......You read that right, out of the 9 teams and around 44 players per team, the average salary of a player is only around $80,000. Now, this can expand to over $400,000 per year for quarterbacks, but can be as little as just over $42,000 per year as a minimum payment for someone who often sits on the bench. For reference, this means that if everyone on a team averaged a salary of the aforementioned $80,000 a year, the top player in the NFL in terms of earnings Peyton Manning, with a salary of $42.4 Million with both endorsements and salary could pay for 530 CFL players or about 12 teams worth. This means that Peyton Manning’s salary alone could pay about the entire leagues player salaries, add three more teams and still have about a million and a half dollars left over. This is partially due to the fact that the CFL has a strict salary cap for entire teams, currently just over $5 Million USD and this certainly cuts into the players Ferarri funds. But say you don’t mind the salary cut and want to give it a go playing for the CFL to represent your favorite Canadian province or team. How do you get to become a CFL player? Let’s take a look.......

$80,000 a year is still a hell of a lot more than a guy could get bagging groceries....so even at that "low salary"  (which is more than I have ever made in a year).......it is a hell of a good paying job.  Sure, if they can jump to the NFL and get NFL money....who would not do that.  But 80K is better than -0- K.  And some guys  (can you say Johnny Manziel)   just need to go up there to show what they can do before asking to be let into the NFL club.

[mjp28]

8 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

$80,000 a year is still a hell of a lot more than a guy could get bagging groceries....so even at that "low salary"  (which is more than I have ever made in a year).......it is a hell of a good paying job.  Sure, if they can jump to the NFL and get NFL money....who would not do that.  But 80K is better than -0- K.  And some guys  (can you say Johnny Manziel)   just need to go up there to show what they can do before asking to be let into the NFL club.

Oh yes it's a fact a LOT of current NFL players would play for a fraction of what they're making now with the big TV deals, exploded CBA and all of that.

I used to say many would be in the car business if it weren't for sports NFL, NBA, MLB like washing them, parking them or stealing them.