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Orion

Dorsey's out on a limb

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...on a limb because he did not make the 'safe' pick, which was Sam Darnold.

Keiper had us picking Josh Allen, and stuck with that all through the process, but most everyone else had us taking Darnold.  And that if we DIDN'T take Darnold then the Giants would forego Barkley at #2 and pick Darnold.  After all, he was the big strong squeaky clean good kid QB.  No one could ever fault a GM for taking that kid.  Not even in hindsight.

The same can not be said for picking Mayfield.  If, by some chance (and it can be a very strange world at times), Mayfield were to screw up...get into a fight at a strip club...get  DUI...go to Las Vegas in a blonde wig and call himself Billy...(you fill in the blank)...then Dorsey wears egg.

I mean, you KNOW that JImmy & Dee would've needed quite a bit of assurance that the flag planting, junk grabbing, drunken & disorderly police runner, Mayfield, was NOT going to be Manziel 2.0.  There could be no more of that.  Especially with 3 other options available.

If ever the legacy of a GM being tied to a QB existed, this would be it.  -  Now hearing an interview with Mayfield's agent say that the Patriots told him that if Baker was there at pick #2 then they were going to trade up with the Giants and draft him.........And hearing Dorsey say that Arizona called him pre-draft about Pick #4 and said that they'd be willing to trade up there with us, but for one player only, Baker Mayfield....those two things give me some confidence that we weren't the ONLY ones that felt he was the top QB in the draft....and that perhaps he could turn out to BE the best.  -  Still though, it took some large balls to draft THAT KID, to follow in the shoes of our LAST first round pick QB...Billy.

Of course, not that the QB pick didn't put him out on a limb far enough, he came back in round 4 and drafted a WR that didn't play AT ALL last year because of a suspension.  A WR that many pundits feel is a true bad apple.  And yet we're still wondering if OUR OWN bad apple, Josh Gordon, will be available for play in September.

I fully expect Dorsey to wake up in a cold sweat while dreaming that Callaway robbed a Seven Eleven and Mayfield crashed the get-away car because he was drunk.

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Putting his fate in the hands of immature kids? What could go wrong? Nothing ever has before in Cleveland.:rolleyes:

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7 hours ago, Orion said:

...on a limb because he did not make the 'safe' pick, which was Sam Darnold.

Keiper had us picking Josh Allen, and stuck with that all through the process, but most everyone else had us taking Darnold.  And that if we DIDN'T take Darnold then the Giants would forego Barkley at #2 and pick Darnold.  After all, he was the big strong squeaky clean good kid QB.  No one could ever fault a GM for taking that kid.  Not even in hindsight.

The same can not be said for picking Mayfield.  If, by some chance (and it can be a very strange world at times), Mayfield were to screw up...get into a fight at a strip club...get  DUI...go to Las Vegas in a blonde wig and call himself Billy...(you fill in the blank)...then Dorsey wears egg.

I mean, you KNOW that JImmy & Dee would've needed quite a bit of assurance that the flag planting, junk grabbing, drunken & disorderly police runner, Mayfield, was NOT going to be Manziel 2.0.  There could be no more of that.  Especially with 3 other options available.

If ever the legacy of a GM being tied to a QB existed, this would be it.  -  Now hearing an interview with Mayfield's agent say that the Patriots told him that if Baker was there at pick #2 then they were going to trade up with the Giants and draft him.........And hearing Dorsey say that Arizona called him pre-draft about Pick #4 and said that they'd be willing to trade up there with us, but for one player only, Baker Mayfield....those two things give me some confidence that we weren't the ONLY ones that felt he was the top QB in the draft....and that perhaps he could turn out to BE the best.  -  Still though, it took some large balls to draft THAT KID, to follow in the shoes of our LAST first round pick QB...Billy.

Of course, not that the QB pick didn't put him out on a limb far enough, he came back in round 4 and drafted a WR that didn't play AT ALL last year because of a suspension.  A WR that many pundits feel is a true bad apple.  And yet we're still wondering if OUR OWN bad apple, Josh Gordon, will be available for play in September.

I fully expect Dorsey to wake up in a cold sweat while dreaming that Callaway robbed a Seven Eleven and Mayfield crashed the get-away car because he was drunk.

Great post!  In fact, Peter Shrager on the NFL Channel reported that he heard there were more teams that had Mayfield over Darnold despite who all the mock drafts favored. 

The Mock Drafts in the media aren't very good at pre-draft Poker. They're more Mary Kay Cabot caliber.

And always keep in mind that Kiper is an avid Ratbird fan; so we're always going to be a conflict of interest showing up in the form of him hoping we have queer eye for the wrong guy at QB.

Edited by Flugel
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I'm optimistic because I'm watching interviews of Mayfield and he looks like a nice, serious guy who will try his best.

In the Combine pressers, I think that Rosen and Mayfield did the best, and I still like the way both communicate. It gives me confidence. 

My optimism is also enhanced thanks to the rumors of other teams having Mayfield higher in their boards than we thought. That Allen and Rosen were picked in 6 and 10 kind of confirms it. Had they been top prospects in other boards and it would have been 4 QBs in first 5 picks. 

Anyway, I don't think that Dorsey is out on a limb because:

1. It's his first draft.

2. He already signed Tirod Taylor as a reliable (though not amazing) starter.

3. He has a reputation. He's been successful in the Chiefs, it's not like he's a newcomer that has to show he's worth the position (that could be said was Sashi's case).

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We signed Tyrod?

11 hours ago, Orion said:

I fully expect Dorsey to wake up in a cold sweat while dreaming that Callaway robbed a Seven Eleven and Mayfield crashed the get-away car because he was drunk.

Sorry... had to laugh at your close.

All GMs start out on a ledge with one foot on a banana peel and have to earn every incremental increase in security. And as Dorsey showed in KC they can do well and still screw it up.

In CLE Dorsey has a year-one mulligan in his pocket named Hue. Any Mayfield issues will be put on his "handling". Additionally both our Round 1 picks had enough backing, enough viability pre-draft that any initial failure would not be significantly damaging.

The danger I see begins with pick 2.01. Aside from Chubb there's not a single pick that does not look like a reach. Callaway might hit the 7/11, but even worse would be if he stayed clean and simply sucked.

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Callaway might hit the 7/11, but even worse would be if he stayed clean and simply sucked.

...yes.  And that's possible because he missed an entire college season and is coming in 'cold' into the NFL.

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I don’t mind taking a flyer on Callaway, if he doesn’t work out...it’s not like we haven’t wasted a 4th round pick before.

I remember a 4th round WR drafted by Ray Farmer by the name of Vince Mayle.

He didn’t even make the 53 man roster (or even make the PS) and was cut before the regular season began.

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3 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

if he doesn’t work out...it’s not like we haven’t wasted a 4th round pick before.

True.  Not a huge waste, although we did trade up in the round to take him.

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10 hours ago, Flugel said:

Great post!  In fact, Peter Shrager on the NFL Channel reported that he heard there were more teams that had Mayfield over Darnold despite who all the mock drafts favored. 

The Mock Drafts in the media aren't very good at pre-draft Poker. They're more Mary Kay Cabot caliber.

And always keep in mind that Kiper is an avid Ratbird fan; so we're always going to be a conflict of interest showing up in the form of him hoping we have queer eye for the wrong guy at QB.

Honestly, Mayfield was my early preference. He reminds me of a Montana/Sipe over-achiever. He could be Clay Matthews' kid. Tom, you try to come up with an adjective of your own, but this kid just "feels Browns" to me. I think the little bastard is going to turn Browns town into a regular football Mardi Gras. How have many big, tall, strong-armed QBs we seen fizzle? I like the pick. This is going to be a fun year.

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9 hours ago, Nero said:

I'm optimistic because I'm watching interviews of Mayfield and he looks like a nice, serious guy who will try his best.

In the Combine pressers, I think that Rosen and Mayfield did the best, and I still like the way both communicate. It gives me confidence. 

My optimism is also enhanced thanks to the rumors of other teams having Mayfield higher in their boards than we thought. That Allen and Rosen were picked in 6 and 10 kind of confirms it. Had they been top prospects in other boards and it would have been 4 QBs in first 5 picks. 

Anyway, I don't think that Dorsey is out on a limb because:

1. It's his first draft.

2. He already signed Tirod Taylor as a reliable (though not amazing) starter.

3. He has a reputation. He's been successful in the Chiefs, it's not like he's a newcomer that has to show he's worth the position (that could be said was Sashi's case).

Everyon who drafts players is out on a limb, don't you think? I mean, no matter who it is, if your draftees do well, you keep your job. The people who drafted Rosen, Darnold, Jackson and whatshisass are also out on a limb. If Mayfield is better than all of them, they will get pressured as to why they didn't try to trade up and get him. Dorsey is fine.

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48 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Everyone who drafts players is out on a limb, don't you think? I mean, no matter who it is, if your draftees do well, you keep your job. The people who drafted Rosen, Darnold, Jackson and whatshisass are also out on a limb. If Mayfield is better than all of them, they will get pressured as to why they didn't try to trade up and get him. Dorsey is fine.

You feeling OK Tom? Little under the weather?:lol:

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

You feeling OK Tom? Little under the weather?:lol:

LMAO,  nah, just sick of rhetoric and bullschidt. I got my clip emptied out on Zumba, I still think Hue Blows, but Shmuckc, Dorsey has hit some of my qualifiers. He hadded a top QB, got Buckeye players, upgraded the running game, took a shot at another reciever, and took his shot with the rest of the picks. There is no magic in this. I just can't see any obvious downside to the guy's draft. Nothing I can do about last year, so, let's play ball and see what falls out.

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3 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Everyon who drafts players is out on a limb, don't you think? I mean, no matter who it is, if your draftees do well, you keep your job. The people who drafted Rosen, Darnold, Jackson and whatshisass are also out on a limb. If Mayfield is better than all of them, they will get pressured as to why they didn't try to trade up and get him. Dorsey is fine.

& fer sure, at least one, maybe a couple of the 2018 QB crop will bust. (It had just not better be Baker, but I feel really good about the pick) It's almost gotten funny watching First Round Draft Night, with all they hype these guys get. It's a damn historical guarantee 1\3 of them will bust and another 1\3 will under perform.  :)  

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4 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Everyon who drafts players is out on a limb, don't you think?

Yes.  But some limbs appear stronger than others.  Darnold was the consensus safest QB pick (in the media and pundit's mind(s)).  When you go against the grain, your need to be right increases.  Let's say a bunch of us went for a hike.  On the way back we come to a fork and most everyone says we should go left, but one person says No, we're going right.  Well, OoKaay...but ya better be right.....

There's a lot of failed QB names on the back of that jersey that no longer hangs in that Cleveland store-front.  We are the QB laughing stock of the league.  It takes guts to NOT go with the safe pick if you're a Cleveland Browns draft picker.  ---  I'm just sayin'.........

Now, do I want Mayfield (and Callaway) to succeed?  I absolutely do.  I'm going to support them and give them the benefit of the doubt.  

And having said all this stuff about going out on a limb as opposed to being careful and picking Darnold, I (we), would NOT want Dorsey to have pick Darnold because he wanted the security of the pundits when all the while he actually felt that Mayfield was the best QB (or best QB for us).  We all want Dorsey to be right.  I'm anxious to see the preseason games that's for sure.

 

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9 hours ago, Orion said:

Yes.  But some limbs appear stronger than others.  Darnold was the consensus safest QB pick (in the media and pundit's mind(s)).  When you go against the grain, your need to be right increases.  Let's say a bunch of us went for a hike.  On the way back we come to a fork and most everyone says we should go left, but one person says No, we're going right.  Well, OoKaay...but ya better be right.....

There's a lot of failed QB names on the back of that jersey that no longer hangs in that Cleveland store-front.  We are the QB laughing stock of the league.  It takes guts to NOT go with the safe pick if you're a Cleveland Browns draft picker.  ---  I'm just sayin'.........

Now, do I want Mayfield (and Callaway) to succeed?  I absolutely do.  I'm going to support them and give them the benefit of the doubt.  

And having said all this stuff about going out on a limb as opposed to being careful and picking Darnold, I (we), would NOT want Dorsey to have pick Darnold because he wanted the security of the pundits when all the while he actually felt that Mayfield was the best QB (or best QB for us).  We all want Dorsey to be right.  I'm anxious to see the preseason games that's for sure.

 

Screw the pundits. Their job is to accumulate clicks and they will turn on you in the wink of a young girl's eye.

WSS

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2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Screw the pundits.

Yup... If the pundits were better draft evaluators then they'd be GMs.

Plus far more damaging or beneficial than beat-writer reports of "what they are hearing around the league" during the build up to the Draft is the post-Draft, owners' chit chat over single malts at their meetings about what their GMs' views were. If you think folks here have felt relief at hearing all the reported positives on Baker since the Draft, just imagine how Jimmah felt at the recent owners' meeting hearing, "My guy was really high on Mayfield as well."

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22 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

I don’t mind taking a flyer on Callaway, if he doesn’t work out...it’s not like we haven’t wasted a 4th round pick before.

I remember a 4th round WR drafted by Ray Farmer by the name of Vince Mayle.

He didn’t even make the 53 man roster (or even make the PS) and was cut before the regular season began.

  Games Rushing Receiving        
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% YScm RRTD Fmb AV
Career       23 0 2 2 1 2 1.0 0.1 0.1 2 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0   2 1 0 0
2 yrs DAL     7 0 0 0 0 0   0.0 0.0 1 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0   0 0 0 0
1 yr BAL     16 0 2 2 1 2 1.0 0.1 0.1 1 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0   2 1 0 0
2015 24 DAL   85 1 0 0 0 0 0   0.0 0.0 1 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0 0.0% 0 0 0 0
2016 25 DAL   16 6 0 0 0 0 0   0.0 0.0                   0 0 0 0
2017 26 BAL   88 16 0 2 2 1 2 1.0 0.1 0.1 1 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0 0.0% 2 1 0 0

 

these are his career stats.  The fact that he ran the ball for a TD is amazing.  I guess he has played some special teams mostly for the Cowgirls and the Ratpukers.

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6 minutes ago, The Gipper said:
  Games Rushing Receiving        
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% YScm RRTD Fmb AV
Career       23 0 2 2 1 2 1.0 0.1 0.1 2 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0   2 1 0 0
2 yrs DAL     7 0 0 0 0 0   0.0 0.0 1 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0   0 0 0 0
1 yr BAL     16 0 2 2 1 2 1.0 0.1 0.1 1 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0   2 1 0 0
2015 24 DAL   85 1 0 0 0 0 0   0.0 0.0 1 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0 0.0% 0 0 0 0
2016 25 DAL   16 6 0 0 0 0 0   0.0 0.0                   0 0 0 0
2017 26 BAL   88 16 0 2 2 1 2 1.0 0.1 0.1 1 0 0   0 0 0.0 0.0 0.0% 2 1 0 0

 

these are his career stats.  The fact that he ran the ball for a TD is amazing.  I guess he has played some special teams mostly for the Cowgirls and the Ratpukers.

Yep...sounds like a Ray Farmer pick.

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15 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Yep...sounds like a Ray Farmer pick.

He hated WRs...so he looked for about the worst one he could find.

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On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:17 AM, Tour2ma said:

We signed Tyrod?

Sorry... had to laugh at your close.

All GMs start out on a ledge with one foot on a banana peel and have to earn every incremental increase in security. And as Dorsey showed in KC they can do well and still screw it up.

In CLE Dorsey has a year-one mulligan in his pocket named Hue. Any Mayfield issues will be put on his "handling". Additionally both our Round 1 picks had enough backing, enough viability pre-draft that any initial failure would not be significantly damaging.

The danger I see begins with pick 2.01. Aside from Chubb there's not a single pick that does not look like a reach. Callaway might hit the 7/11, but even worse would be if he stayed clean and simply sucked.

disagree I expect Corbett to start at LT this year That is why he was drafted at #33 not to be kicked inside or used as depth as some morons have said so no this pick was not a reach

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Since the return... This is the first draft that ever felt "Right" with me...We didnt take a bunch of no names. Nor do I feel any of the picks were reaching... Time will tell.. I hope they got it right.. And like Ghoulie mentioned... The more I read up on Baker... The more I begin to feel hes 'the one'.. However.. I'll temper that enthusiasm with guarded trepidation...

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4 hours ago, syd said:

I expect Corbett to start at LT this year That is why he was drafted at #33

Yup, I expect them to work him at LT in competition with anyone else on the roster that might suit that position.  I don't think they want to say anything that makes it sound like he's 'the guy to beat' to be LT because they don't want to put pressure on him...plus, it leaves them an 'out' in case he can't be a LT.

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I wonder who backs up Tretter..?

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3 hours ago, nickers said:

I wonder who backs up Tretter..?

I would assume Austin Reiter.  He looked pretty good filling in for Erving a couple years ago...until he got hurt and on IR.

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On 5/6/2018 at 8:17 AM, Tour2ma said:

The danger I see begins with pick 2.01. Aside from Chubb there's not a single pick that does not look like a reach. Callaway might hit the 7/11, but even worse would be if he stayed clean and simply sucked.

We've made reaches in the past that seemed to of worked out before. I'm hoping the lineman we took early pans out greatly.

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My only complaint is that we did not use a bit of the late round ammo to move ahead of BB and take Michel. I'm not disappointed that we took Chubb where we did since all the best RBs would be gone by our late 2nd rounder, but I really liked Michel just a bit more than his teammate. That damn BB really knows his football players. Either we had those two graded equally (or maybe Chubb as better) or we took a chance that no one would take him in the first round and lost.

BTW-Fornette and Elliot are proving the forgotten value of RBs being taken higher in the draft and I think we just saw that play out this year. Three in the first and all the best before the end of the second.

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21 hours ago, syd said:

disagree I expect Corbett to start at LT this year That is why he was drafted at #33 not to be kicked inside or used as depth as some morons have said so no this pick was not a reach

I agree except the moron part. I have a bet with Tour ... I'm thinking lunch and a cold beer at The Corner Alley.

Zombo

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My only complaint is that we did not use a bit of the late round ammo to move ahead of BB and take Michel. I'm not disappointed that we took Chubb where we did since all the best RBs would be gone by our late 2nd rounder, but I really liked Michel just a bit more than his teammate. TexAg

*****************************************

Nope.

I'm a big fan of both Michel and Chubb. They are different type rb's. However, if you read up on evals of both...

going with Chubb was brilliant, in the second round:

https://www.catscratchreader.com/2018/3/28/17167756/nick-chubb-sony-michel-georgia-bulldogs-2018-nfl-draft-prospects

more on both:

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/nick-chubb-sony-michel-goes-first-nfl-draft-not-sure-thing

https://www.myajc.com/sports/football/what-mayock-and-kiper-had-say-about-michel-chubb/8cQHaO5uZ6FfYZUySforqL/

 

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Good write-ups cal. But you have to add in the BB factor. Somehow that guy finds the players every year and the fact that he had his choice of either and went with Michel is telling.

But again as I've said I am glad we chose Chubb where we did. He is an excellent inside runner with vision which we really need. He's far better than Crow and with Hyde added in too we have some real weapons to chose from in the backfield, both of whom also can be 3rd down backs with hands. It also I think relieves our "U" player so he can back up Landry in the slot. Don't be surprised if that's where he's listed on the two deep come Sept.

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