Draft Grades

[hoorta]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:46 AM, StinkHole said:

That's no fun.

Assigning grades is a game in itself. Grading drafts is merely an opinion based on how much the analyst believes the players selected will contribute to the team ...THEN  after 3 years we can determine if the analyst was right or wrong.

We fans are not employed by NFL teams either, but a letter grade could easily be attached to our opinion of how our beloved team did.

Easy to give out immediate grades- the more accurate one are the "let's redo the X draft from three years ago".  20\20 hindsight. Every review draft would now have Tom Brady as the #1 overall, not sixth round. 

It's the primary reason the Browns have stunk for over a decade. The talent we've passed on that was still on the board, and us taking a bust is mind boggling. 

[Dutch Oven]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

It's the primary reason the Browns have stunk for over a decade. The talent we've passed on that was still on the board, and us taking a bust is mind boggling. 

That's why I always shake my head when, inevitably, someone blurts out: "Well I'll just trust the guys paid to draft players who have way more football knowledge than some guy on a message board..."

I mean, the sentiment is 100% correct. But the Browns, since '99, have shown that some random guy with a draft guide bought for $8 at the local bookshop CAN do a better job. 

[The Gipper]

15 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I think Orchard is history. And so does 247.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Bolt/Post-NFL-Draft-Browns-Mock-Depth-Chart-117830703?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=180430_150404_Cleveland Browns&utm_content=Link&liveconnect=1B-C2-1E-69-15-F3-1E-26-47-C2-FB-AF-1F-3D-14-30180430_150404ClevelandBrowns

Probably...but still...he is only like one of 5 guys taken from all these drafts still on the roster.

[TexasAg1969]

11 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Probably...but still...he is only like one of 5 guys taken from all these drafts still on the roster.

But every time he substituted for Garrett the opposing teams ran right over his side for massive yardage. He just does not play the run well at all when it comes right at him.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

But every time he substituted for Garrett the opposing teams ran right over his side for massive yardage. He just does not play the run well at all when it comes right at him.

Well, on the depth chart, Orchard is listed as the third string  SLB.....behind Collins and James Burgess.   If he can't beat out James Burgess for a backup LB spot....then absolutely...his days are numbered.

[boo fagley]

On 4/30/2018 at 10:07 AM, Tour2ma said:

Says a "wannabe"...

They are accurate as your Rosen pick.

 

[Tour2ma]

50 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

They are accurate as your Rosen pick.

True, but I'm not the one claiming omniscience...

[Westside Steve]

39 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

True, but I'm not the one claiming omniscience...

I don't recall tour actually predicting Rosen oh, I just think that would have been his pic. Maybe I'm wrong. Without the benefit of meeting any of the players I might have selected rows and had I been the GM but as it stands I'm very happy with Baker Mayfield.

WSS

[boo fagley]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

True, but I'm not the one claiming omniscience...

Right

Claims that Rosen was the best in this draft was not omniscient. Try again.

[TexasAg1969]

Frankly I think as long as he remains healthy Rosen will prove out to be the first one who breaks out as an NFL QB. He has the advantage of having to learn 3 different systems already and is a bright guy. Mayfield in the long run may be the better since he is highly motivated and has as good an accuracy as Rosen. But wear and tear of smaller QBs is always a concern, especially if some coach runs him on purpose. Won't be doing him any favors. Darnold has the most long term potential because he just has a Big Ben type body size and is in an ideal spot to be mentored into the position. Jackson can barely communicate but is one hell of an athlete. Josh Allen has a lot of accuracy work to do. But I like his attitude.

[Tour2ma]

21 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I don't recall tour actually predicting Rosen oh, I just think that would have been his pic. Maybe I'm wrong. Without the benefit of meeting any of the players I might have selected rows and had I been the GM but as it stands I'm very happy with Baker Mayfield.

I think, or believe, Rosen is and will be the best QB in this draft... but the operative word is think.

Boo confuses opinion with omniscience...

5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Frankly I think as long as he remains healthy Rosen will prove out to be the first one who breaks out as an NFL QB. He has the advantage of having to learn 3 different systems already and is a bright guy.

For me it's his translation of "football IQ" to the playing field. He already has shown me that he can consistently apply his knowledge while the others have at most only displayed flashes... or no sign at all.

In the end this translation is the highest hurdle... the highest barrier to the NFL's QB-Club's entry. And the depth of understanding is what separates the successful NFL QB from the journeyman.

Rosen comes into the league as one of two QBs I've already seen clear the hurdle. Plus he's the one I project to develop the deepest understanding.

Will I be right? No idea, but if I did not like my odds, then I'd back a different horse.

[Ibleedbrown]

On 4/30/2018 at 6:12 PM, The Gipper said:

Well.....why don't we give Grades to the Draft classes that deserve to be graded at this point:   Those 3 to 5 years ago:

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2015	1	Danny Shelton	12	NT	2017	0	0	3	16	46													1.5	Washington
2015	1	Cameron Erving	19	C	2017	0	0	1	10	42									0	0	0			Florida St.
2015	2	Nate Orchard	51	DE	2017	0	0	1	9	34												1	5.0	Utah
2015	3	Duke Johnson	77	RB	2017	0	0	0	15	48	0	1	0	0	0	259	1085	5	188	1741	5			Miami (FL)
2015	3	Xavier Cooper	96	DT	2017	0	0	0	4	40													3.0	Washington St.
2015	4	Ibraheim Campbell	115	SS	2017	0	0	0	5	38														Northwestern
2015	4	Vince Mayle	123	WR	2017	0	0	0	0	23						2	2	1	0	0	0			Washington St.
2015	6	Charles Gaines	189	CB	2015	0	0	0	1	6														Louisville
2015	6	Malcolm Johnson	195	TE	2016	0	0	0	0	19						1	2	0	9	59	0			Mississippi St.
2015	6	Randall Telfer	198	TE	2017	0	0	1	0	30									5	40	0			USC
2015	7	Hayes Pullard	219	ILB	2017	0	0	0	8	37												1		USC
2015	7	Ifo Ekpre-Olomu	241	CB		0	0	0																Oregon
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2014	1	Justin Gilbert	8	DB	2016	0	0	0	4	35												1		Oklahoma St.
2014	1	Johnny Manziel	22	QB	2015	0	0	0	5	15	147	258	1675	7	7	46	259	1						Texas A&M
2014	2	Joel Bitonio	35	G	2017	0	0	3	17	47														Nevada
2014	3	Christian Kirksey	71	LB	2017	0	0	3	21	64													11.5	Iowa
2014	3	Terrance West	94	RB	2017	0	0	1	12	43						465	1816	11	51	344	2			Towson
2014	4	Pierre Desir	127	DB	2017	0	0	0	5	33												1		Lindenwood
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2013	1	Barkevious Mingo	6	LB	2017	0	0	1	16	78												1	9.0	LSU
2013	3	Leon McFadden	68	DB	2016	0	0	0	2	34														San Diego St.
2013	6	Jamoris Slaughter	175	DB		0	0	0																Notre Dame
2013	7	Armonty Bryant	217	DE	2016	0	0	0	4	36													11.5	East Central (OK)
2013	7	Garrett Gilkey	227	T	2014	0	0	0	2	22														Chadron St.

 

Give a grade to each of these years.

Oddly enough we seem to do better with middle round picks. I seem to recall having this observation before with older drafts. Perhaps we should trade all first round picks for 2nd and 3rd rounders?

[Ibleedbrown]

On 5/1/2018 at 10:40 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

But every time he substituted for Garrett the opposing teams ran right over his side for massive yardage. He just does not play the run well at all when it comes right at him.

That seems like hyperbole at best to say that. I root for the guy and hope he can turn some heads this year. 

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

That seems like hyperbole at best to say that. I root for the guy and hope he can turn some heads this year. 

There is a reason he was moved out of the DE spot behind Garrett and now behind Collins at SLB. He has a far better chance of making it there. If you go back and review all the games he was in at RDE he was just not productive. I put it on par with moving Peppers from Centerfield to his more natural position of SS. I think we get far better play from both of those guys now.

[Ibleedbrown]

25 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

There is a reason he was moved out of the DE spot behind Garrett and now behind Collins at SLB. He has a far better chance of making it there. If you go back and review all the games he was in at RDE he was just not productive. I put it on par with moving Peppers from Centerfield to his more natural position of SS. I think we get far better play from both of those guys now.

You may be right. I might be crazy. I’m done watching film for a while, but he may just be the lunatic we’re looking for.

This is the thing l hate about regime changes, l don’t think the new guys do their due dilligence to see where their existing assets may fit in with what they are trying to do. 

He was drafted as a pass rush guy, but in all the changes no one bothers to see how and where he might fit in. I root for weak links. Sports are boring without them. Like pitchers batting in the NL. It usually doesn’t go well, but when it does, man is that fun.

[TexasAg1969]

17 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

This is the thing l hate about regime changes, l don’t think the new guys do their due dilligence to see where their existing assets may fit in with what they are trying to do.

Actually I have been impressed with Dorsey's football read on current talent and the free agency/draft process. He apparently has been working with both OC and DC to move guys to better positions for their abilities and fill the needs left open through that process. Remember that our DC likes to bring blizting pressure from all over the field. That would include someone like Orchard coming from the SLB position. He has the ability to do that suddenly when not expected just like Collins. I think it's a positive change for him personally. A better position for what he brings to the Browns.

EDIT: I became a Dorsey fan when he made the Ratley pick. Not because he comes from A&M, but because someone had to do the hard work of researching why his second half of 2017 was so much better than the first 7 games. Our lack of a throwing QB until he returned from a broken ankle hurt both of our best receivers. They had to take notice of his off the chart pro day and did their research. I really thought Ratley was going to have to go the UDFA route or 7th round at best. Dorsey's team did their research and made the pick. I see that same process at work throughout the team. It's going to make a huge difference.

[Ibleedbrown]

7 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Actually I have been impressed with Dorsey's football read on current talent and the free agency/draft process. He apparently has been working with both OC and DC to move guys to better positions for their abilities and fill the needs left open through that process. Remember that our DC likes to bring blizting pressure from all over the field. That would include someone like Orchard coming from the SLB position. He has the ability to do that suddenly when not expected just like Collins. I think it's a positive change for him personally. A better position for what he brings to the Browns.

EDIT: I became a Dorsey fan when he made the Ratley pick. Not because he comes from A&M, but because someone had to do the hard work of researching why his second half of 2017 was so much better than the first 7 games. Our lack of a throwing QB until he returned from a broken ankle hurt both of our best receivers. They had to take notice of his off the chart pro day and did their research. I really thought Ratley was going to have to go the UDFA route or 7th round at best. Dorsey's team did their research and made the pick. I see that same process at work throughout the team. It's going to make a huge difference.

Right on. I suppose it’s a good sign that Orchard’s on the roster still then. Maybe someone within the new regime saw something they could work with.

I saw your words in another thread about the Ratley pick and was intrigued with the QB discombobulation situation at A & M. Good call. 

Continuity is good.