A Prudent Solution

[The Gipper]

Here is a Prudent Solution to the Browns draft Quandary over who to draft:

Since most draft pundits think that Barkley and Chubb are actually the two best players out there, then they should take them.  Take one at 1 and the other at 4.  The only concern would be if another team picking at 2 or 3 grabs one of them....and that team would be the Giants, not the Jets who did not trade up to 3 to draft anything but a QB.   So, we would have to hope that the Giants either pick what they believe to be their QBOTF....or that they trade out to a team that does want one of the QBs.    So, assuming that happens, then the Browns get both of the best players that are thought to be the best available.

Then, they trade back into the later first round....perhaps to the mid 20s, and they select the QB that is going to prove to be the best pro QB of the bunch anyway:  Mason Rudolph.  

So then, the Browns will then have the best of all three worlds....the two best players and the best QB.

Now, the Browns are not always known to be the most prudent team when it comes to drafting......and a few of you may not think this would be the most prudent move for the Browns....but it is. 

[Westside Steve]

Well my brakes are shot but dammit an exhaust system is on sale this week so I'm going to have to go with the great deal.

WSS

[RoyceRolls]

Hey, remember that time 5 months ago where Gipper saw an article stating that Rudolph was the top QB, and welded his opinion to it without any independent research?  

[Tour2ma]

11 minutes ago, RoyceRolls said:

Hey, remember that time 5 months ago where Gipper saw an article stating that Rudolph was the top QB, and welded his opinion to it without any independent research?  

Vaguely...

[MLD Woody]

What a bad idea

[Mr. Make-Believe]

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Here is a Prudent Solution to the Browns draft Quandary over who to draft:

Since most draft pundits think that Barkley and Chubb are actually the two best players out there, then they should take them.  Take one at 1 and the other at 4.  The only concern would be if another team picking at 2 or 3 grabs one of them....and that team would be the Giants, not the Jets who did not trade up to 3 to draft anything but a QB.   So, we would have to hope that the Giants either pick what they believe to be their QBOTF....or that they trade out to a team that does want one of the QBs.    So, assuming that happens, then the Browns get both of the best players that are thought to be the best available.

Then, they trade back into the later first round....perhaps to the mid 20s, and they select the QB that is going to prove to be the best pro QB of the bunch anyway:  Mason Rudolph.  

So then, the Browns will then have the best of all three worlds....the two best players and the best QB.

Now, the Browns are not always known to be the most prudent team when it comes to drafting......and a few of you may not think this would be the most prudent move for the Browns....but it is. 

You may think that's a great idea, but about no one else does. What if a team like Miami drafts Rudolph in the mid teens? Flush that one. Unless you like the idea of Jackson or some other second tier QB later.

Other than CBS Sports, no one has Rudolph as a top prospect, and we're not shopping the QB bargain bin again this year.

[Tour2ma]

15 minutes ago, hoorta said:

You may think that's a great idea, but about no one else does.

I think your Troll-o-meter is due for recalibration.

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, RoyceRolls said:

Hey, remember that time 5 months ago where Gipper saw an article stating that Rudolph was the top QB, and welded his opinion to it without any independent research?  

That article is the CBS Prospect report......which by the way STILL has him listed.....as of about an hour ago....as the #1 QB prospect out there.

Besides, I did do "independent research".....which...you apparently missed....or ignored....or were so stupefied by that it went over your head.

I.e.   I did as much "research" as any of us can do:   watched game film,  read reports,  researched his stats.

What else did you want me to do.....as a mere Joe Schmo fan?

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

You may think that's a great idea, but about no one else does. What if a team like Miami drafts Rudolph in the mid teens? Flush that one. Unless you like the idea of Jackson or some other second tier QB later.

Other than CBS Sports, no one has Rudolph as a top prospect, and we're not shopping the QB bargain bin again this year.

But here several points:

A.  I know it is a risk of losing him to someone else.  Shite Maude....someone like the Dolphins SHOULD take him mid teens....and don't be surprised if they don't. (and no...I don't like Jackson)

B. Of course no one else has the balls to go out on the limb like I have....

C.  I don't mind going bargain bin shopping.....IF you can get a bargain.....and I think this guy could be a bargain.  Just like these guys were "bargains":

Brady  #199,  Brees  #32, Matt Schaub 3rd round,   Rodgers #24,  Dalton #35,  Taylor  #180,  Russell Wilson #75, Nick Foles #88, Kirk Cousins #102,  Derek Carr  #36,  Jimmy Garropolo #62.  

Plus....most of you are ignoring the other part of the equation.....as you have not commented on it:   What about the prospect of getting BOTH  Chubb and Barkley?

All I am saying is that it may be the prudent thing to take two "supposed"  Sure things....than one very unsure thing....the QBs in this lot....and then take a guy that has as much potential as any of the other QBs in this draft.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

But here several points:

B. Of course no one else has the balls to go out on the limb like I have....

C.  I don't mind going bargain bin shopping.....IF you can get a bargain.....and I think this guy could be a bargain.  Just like these guys were "bargains":

Brady  #199,  Brees  #32, Matt Schaub 3rd round,   Rodgers #24,  Dalton #35,  Taylor  #180,  Russell Wilson #75, Nick Foles #88, Kirk Cousins #102,  Derek Carr  #36,  Jimmy Garropolo #62.  

Plus....most of you are ignoring the other part of the equation.....as you have not commented on it:   What about the prospect of getting BOTH  Chubb and Barkley?

All I am saying is that it may be the prudent thing to take two "supposed"  Sure things....than one very unsure thing....the QBs in this lot....and then take a guy that has as much potential as any of the other QBs in this draft.

B: And it's for sure why the Browns won't. Said it a bunch of times, CBS Sports is a big time outlier. 

C: Like these other bargains? Quinn, Weeden, Manziel, Kizer, Frye, McCoy? 

No such thing as "sure thing". Chubb at #4, and just no to Barkley. 

According to the NFL.com rankings Rudolph DOES NOT have as much potential as the other top QB prospects.  Like #6 or so, on the level of Luke Faulk or Mike White.   Just keep repeating that CBS outlier like it's gospel. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mason-rudolph?id=32462018-0002-5599-4271-c09bf8338e3c

If we're taking a Big 12 QB, give me the one that's got Rudolph beat - Baker Mayfield. 

BTW, one of the NFL mocks had the Bills taking Mason at #12, so your "prudence" just screwed the Browns out of a top QB prospect AGAIN. 

Late in the game, but you can always start Camp Rudolph- population of one.    

[The Gipper]

11 minutes ago, hoorta said:

B: And it's for sure why the Browns won't. Said it a bunch of times, CBS Sports is a big time outlier. 

That does not make them wrong.

C: Like these other bargains? Quinn, Weeden, Manziel, Kizer, Frye, McCoy? 

We could do that even with Top 5 overall picks. 

No such thing as "sure thing". Chubb at #4, and just no to Barkley. 

Do you mean that they as players are no "sure things"  or that it is no sure thing that Chubb would be there at #4?  Of course there are no sure things.....Ghoolie thinks  Garrett is a Zumba instructor....there are others that agree with him (not me necessarily...but I do agree that Garrett has a lot of proving to do)

According to the NFL.com rankings Rudolph DOES NOT have as much potential as the other top QB prospects.  Like #6 or so, on the level of Luke Faulk or Mike White.   Just keep repeating that CBS outlier like it's gospel. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mason-rudolph?id=32462018-0002-5599-4271-c09bf8338e3c

Gospel are written after the crucifiction and resurrection.....let's wait after that.....like 3-5 years.

If we're taking a Big 12 QB, give me the one that's got Rudolph beat - Baker Mayfield. 

Or, like another Big 12 QB:  John P. Manziel.  Rudolph has stats almost as good as Mayfield....plus like 3-4 inches.

BTW, one of the NFL mocks had the Bills taking Mason at #12, so your "prudence" just screwed the Browns out of a top QB prospect AGAIN. 

Well...again....would not surprise me if that happens....perhaps it should.  (but note....unlike my proposal....I suggest that that mock did not have the Browns passing on a QB at 1 or 4, did it)

Late in the game, but you can always start Camp Rudolph- population of one.    

No camp.....this was just put up here to see how many bowels I could start to rumbling.   I see that I got you reaching for the kaopectate.

 

 

[hoorta]

5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

B: And it's for sure why the Browns won't. Said it a bunch of times, CBS Sports is a big time outlier. 

That does not make them wrong.

C: Like these other bargains? Quinn, Weeden, Manziel, Kizer, Frye, McCoy? 

We could do that even with Top 5 overall picks. 

No such thing as "sure thing". Chubb at #4, and just no to Barkley. 

Do you mean that they as players are no "sure things"  or that it is no sure thing that Chubb would be there at #4?  Of course there are no sure things.....Ghoolie thinks  Garrett is a Zumba instructor....there are others that agree with him (not me necessarily...but I do agree that Garrett has a lot of proving to do)

According to the NFL.com rankings Rudolph DOES NOT have as much potential as the other top QB prospects.  Like #6 or so, on the level of Luke Faulk or Mike White.   Just keep repeating that CBS outlier like it's gospel. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mason-rudolph?id=32462018-0002-5599-4271-c09bf8338e3c

Gospel are written after the crucifiction and resurrection.....let's wait after that.....like 3-5 years.

If we're taking a Big 12 QB, give me the one that's got Rudolph beat - Baker Mayfield. 

Or, like another Big 12 QB:  John P. Manziel.  Rudolph has stats almost as good as Mayfield....plus like 3-4 inches.

BTW, one of the NFL mocks had the Bills taking Mason at #12, so your "prudence" just screwed the Browns out of a top QB prospect AGAIN. 

Well...again....would not surprise me if that happens....perhaps it should.  (but note....unlike my proposal....I suggest that that mock did not have the Browns passing on a QB at 1 or 4, did it)

Late in the game, but you can always start Camp Rudolph- population of one.    

No camp.....this was just put up here to see how many bowels I could start to rumbling.   I see that I got you reaching for the kaopectate.

Nah- too late in the game to do anymore arguing... Your proposed scenario isn't happening, and you know it. Dorsey would get run out of town if he didn't take a QB at #1 or #4. 

Got my bottles of Napa Cellars "V" and Morgado 10 year tawny at the ready, need to lay in some Roquefort and lunch meat, and I'll be ready to go.   

[PoeticG]

4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Here is a Prudent Solution to the Browns draft Quandary over who to draft:

Since most draft pundits think that Barkley and Chubb are actually the two best players out there, then they should take them.  Take one at 1 and the other at 4.  The only concern would be if another team picking at 2 or 3 grabs one of them....and that team would be the Giants, not the Jets who did not trade up to 3 to draft anything but a QB.   So, we would have to hope that the Giants either pick what they believe to be their QBOTF....or that they trade out to a team that does want one of the QBs.    So, assuming that happens, then the Browns get both of the best players that are thought to be the best available.

Then, they trade back into the later first round....perhaps to the mid 20s, and they select the QB that is going to prove to be the best pro QB of the bunch anyway:  Mason Rudolph.  

So then, the Browns will then have the best of all three worlds....the two best players and the best QB.

Now, the Browns are not always known to be the most prudent team when it comes to drafting......and a few of you may not think this would be the most prudent move for the Browns....but it is. 

It is vital to secure Barkley #1 from the Giants. Barkley is going to be a Michael Jordon like talent. He's not going to be the new Adrian Peterson but he's going to be very fun to watch. I can't wait to see him put one of these defenses in the AFCN to shame. It's been so long and the first time, first game- it's against Pittsburgh- he's going to hit them square in the jaw and it's going to rock the AFCN. They will know that there's a new kid on the block and he's the truth. 

The only thing is you named Chubb and Rudolph. You could have put Mayfield in there and then traded down for a different player altogether, or letting the draft come to us in the second round with 2 of the first 3- puts us at 4 first round talents anyways. A player slips a little and we're there to capitalize. 

I like Chubb, I think he's going to be a solid player. However I'm really excited to see the progression of Ogbah and Nissib- even Orchard to an extent, it's pretty much now or never. If we bring in Chubb we're going to stunt what could be something that we've actually done right. The DL is a strength for us. We lack explosive LB depth more than we need another DE. 

Barkley and Hyde seem to be a deep ground game. Adding Duke Johnson to that mix would make that the most coveted RB stable the NFL has to offer.  

[MLD Woody]

If saying stupid things means you have balls then this is PoG

 

[PoeticG]

If by "stupid" you mean- An alternate view, then by all means- make mine orange and put some rims on that bitch. 

[The Gipper]

47 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Nah- too late in the game to do anymore arguing... Your proposed scenario isn't happening, and you know it. Dorsey would get run out of town if he didn't take a QB at #1 or #4. 

Got my bottles of Napa Cellars "V" and Morgado 10 year tawny at the ready, need to lay in some Roquefort and lunch meat, and I'll be ready to go.   

Well....I never believed for a moment that my scenario would happen....I simply said that perhaps it Should happen.

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

B: And it's for sure why the Browns won't. Said it a bunch of times, CBS Sports is a big time outlier. 

C: Like these other bargains? Quinn, Weeden, Manziel, Kizer, Frye, McCoy? 

No such thing as "sure thing". Chubb at #4, and just no to Barkley. 

According to the NFL.com rankings Rudolph DOES NOT have as much potential as the other top QB prospects.  Like #6 or so, on the level of Luke Faulk or Mike White.   Just keep repeating that CBS outlier like it's gospel. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mason-rudolph?id=32462018-0002-5599-4271-c09bf8338e3c

If we're taking a Big 12 QB, give me the one that's got Rudolph beat - Baker Mayfield. 

BTW, one of the NFL mocks had the Bills taking Mason at #12, so your "prudence" just screwed the Browns out of a top QB prospect AGAIN. 

Late in the game, but you can always start Camp Rudolph- population of one.    

2 if you count Santa.

🎅

WSS

[The Gipper]

33 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

It is vital to secure Barkley #1 from the Giants. Barkley is going to be a Michael Jordon like talent. He's not going to be the new Adrian Peterson but he's going to be very fun to watch. I can't wait to see him put one of these defenses in the AFCN to shame. It's been so long and the first time, first game- it's against Pittsburgh- he's going to hit them square in the jaw and it's going to rock the AFCN. They will know that there's a new kid on the block and he's the truth. 

More vital to secure Chubb...and hope for Barkley at #4.  Barkley is the one that I would be much more willing to sacrifice.   If the Browns do go QB at #1....and both Barkley and Chubb are still there at #4....Chubb is the pick.

The only thing is you named Chubb and Rudolph. You could have put Mayfield in there and then traded down for a different player altogether, or letting the draft come to us in the second round with 2 of the first 3- puts us at 4 first round talents anyways. A player slips a little and we're there to capitalize. 

I had them taking Rudolph late in round one.  Did you not read what I said?  Why is it that you have such a failure of comprehension.  I am assuming that Mayfield is long gone by that time.  You follow?  On the other hand...if you think that the Browns should actually go Mayfield/Chubb at 1 and 4...say so.

I like Chubb, I think he's going to be a solid player. However I'm really excited to see the progression of Ogbah and Nissib- even Orchard to an extent, it's pretty much now or never. If we bring in Chubb we're going to stunt what could be something that we've actually done right. The DL is a strength for us. We lack explosive LB depth more than we need another DE. 

Agree somewhat.  We have 2 MLBs playing OLB.    But Chubb in there theoretically makes the Browns DL a new....insert nickname (Fearsome Foursome/Purple People Eaters/Steel Curtain)    I think Browns need OLB under any circumstances.  Maybe in round 2?

Barkley and Hyde seem to be a deep ground game. Adding Duke Johnson to that mix would make that the most coveted RB stable the NFL has to offer.  

Well....sure, it could, if Barkley is the guy you and a lot of others think he is.  I am not sure he is....but I may be willing to take the chance on him.

 

[The Gipper]

11 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

2 if you count Santa.

🎅

WSS

As in:  getting Rudolph would be a great Christmas Gift? Rudolph can guide the Browns Sleigh? 

Again....as I have said, I have no less confidence in his ability to do that as I do any of the other 5 guys we all know about.

Maybe this is more of an indictment of what I think the chances of the others is to succeed, rather than a promotion of Rudolph. 

Some draft pundits have said that none of these guys should actually go in the Top 10-15.   That some of them are 2d...or lower round talents.  

[hoorta]

24 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

If by "stupid" you mean- An alternate view, then by all means- make mine orange and put some rims on that bitch. 

Sorry if your view is Barkley at any and all costs- it's not being very objective.   Now you want to compare Barkley to Michael Jordan? He wasn't even all that great at North Carolina dude. In the history of the NFL- no running back has ever won 6 Championships. (Gip can correct me if I'm wrong) The HOF ones that come to mind who have won more than one- Franco Harris and Emmett Smith, had a lot of help. What's next Mr. Hyperbole? Saquon can walk across Lake Erie, and part the Cuyahoga? 

75 hours till your big disappointment Po. 

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Sorry if your view is Barkley at any and all costs- it's not being very objective.   Now you want to compare Barkley to Michael Jordan? He wasn't even all that great at North Carolina dude. In the history of the NFL- no running back has ever won 6 Championships. (Gip can correct me if I'm wrong) The HOF ones that come to mind who have won more than one- Franco Harris and Emmett Smith, had a lot of help. What's next Mr. Hyperbole? Saquon can walk across Lake Erie, and part the Cuyahoga? 

75 hours till your big disappointment Po. 

No, no RB has ever won 6 titles.

The closest is Marion Motley who was with the Browns for there 5 straight titles from 1946 to 1950.  He was with the Browns until 1953...but then had one final year with the Squibs....in 1954.....the year the Browns won their next title after 1950.  So he just missed being a part of 6 by one year. 

[Orion]

6 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Since most draft pundits think that Barkley and Chubb are actually the two best players out there,

It's not that simple.  (and many people believe the offensive guard is the best player......or a fatass as the Ghoul would say)

The value of the quarterback to a team / entire organization is calculated on a curve.

If your team has one, then even very good college QB's don't have top of the first round value. (low on the curve)

But if a team doesn't have their QB of the future then that same QB is of incredible value (high on the curve)

Neither Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, etc throw enough TD passes to be valued ahead of a QB.  Especially to a team that's won one game in two years because they couldn't throw TD passes.

We know that TieRod is not really 'the answer' at QB or he'd still be a Bill.  The prudent thing to do is to attempt to fix the huge hole in the boat and worry about the burnt out light bulb later.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

It's not that simple.  (and many people believe the offensive guard is the best player......or a fatass as the Ghoul would say)

The value of the quarterback to a team / entire organization is calculated on a curve.

If your team has one, then even very good college QB's don't have top of the first round value. (low on the curve)

But if a team doesn't have their QB of the future then that same QB is of incredible value (high on the curve)

Neither Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, etc throw enough TD passes to be valued ahead of a QB.  Especially to a team that's won one game in two years because they couldn't throw TD passes.

We know that TieRod is not really 'the answer' at QB or he'd still be a Bill.  The prudent thing to do is to attempt to fix the huge hole in the boat and worry about the burnt out light bulb later.

This is all fine well and good......but it also presumes that the QB that you get proves to be high on the curve and of incredible value.  But, if we actually only have a pile of Blaine Gabberts, Christian Ponders, Joey Harringtons.....or if you have Jamarcus Russell's or Cade McNown's or Akili Smiths....then the Curve you are talking about is the Laugher Curve  (as opposed to Laffer Curve)   

I still say that when it all turns out....this class of QBs will wind up being closer to 2011..or 1999  than it will be to  1983 or 2004.  

Or, as I have said....perhaps more like 2012...where the best QBs that may have come out of that year came in the 3rd and 4th rounds. 

[Orion]

4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I still say that when it all turns out....this class of QBs will wind up being closer to 2011..or 1999  than it will be to  1983 or 2004.  

 

Of course, that could be true.  But if you were a decision maker, and you were wrong like Sashi...then you wouldn't be the decision maker any more.  (DePodesta still has a job though)

[The Gipper]

6 minutes ago, Orion said:

Of course, that could be true.  But if you were a decision maker, and you were wrong like Sashi...then you wouldn't be the decision maker any more.  (DePodesta still has a job though)

But....if I ended up getting the Drew Brees or Russell Wilson of this draft.....I would be employed. 

Notice I did not say to draft Rudolph with #1 or 4.    Sure, by indications that would be seen as a reach.  I said take Chubb and Barkley with 1 and 4.   No one would profess those to be reaches...given their pre draft evaluations.  Some few may disagree with those evaluations....and I may be one of them with Barkley.   But as a rule, no one would claim those to be reaches.  

I think taking any one of THESE QBS at 1 or 4 may in fact be the reach.  I have seen a number of views to that effect.

But I would wager that  Rudolph does go in round one.

I already have a few "wagers" out there.    Stan still owes me a pitcher of Margaritas because I wagered him that Trubisky would be taken Top 10...and he said he would not  (taken #2)

From my Pick Six challenge I will owe the person that wins that lunch.   We shall see how that goes.  Are you in on that?

And here, I am willing to make a minor wager.....hot fudge sundae?  Lunch at Al's?  $5.00 McDonalds Gift Cert....that Rudolph goes in round one.  Are you a taker?

 

 

[Orion]

Great!  I love that Sherlock.

No, no more picking a QB at #22 please.  

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, Orion said:

Great!  I love that Sherlock.

No, no more picking a QB at #22 please.  

Does that mean we have a bet then?   The bet would be just that  Rudolph goes somewhere in the first round...to any team, not just the Browns.

Lets see if you are a town goose or a country goose.

(and I too have always loved that scene....only just one thing....how the hell can you tell the difference between a town bred goose and a country bred goose?  Never could figure that one out.)

[ballpeen]

6 hours ago, The Gipper said:

That article is the CBS Prospect report......which by the way STILL has him listed.....as of about an hour ago....as the #1 QB prospect out there.

Besides, I did do "independent research".....which...you apparently missed....or ignored....or were so stupefied by that it went over your head.

I.e.   I did as much "research" as any of us can do:   watched game film,  read reports,  researched his stats.

What else did you want me to do.....as a mere Joe Schmo fan?

 

16 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Does that mean we have a bet then?   The bet would be just that  Rudolph goes somewhere in the first round...to any team, not just the Browns.

Lets see if you are a town goose or a country goose.

(and I too have always loved that scene....only just one thing....how the hell can you tell the difference between a town bred goose and a country bred goose?  Never could figure that one out.)

You are still hung up on CBS.  Some time back you questioned me about Calvin Ridley, that he wasn't listed as a top prospect by CBS sports.  Have they figured out who he is at this point?

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

 

You are still hung up on CBS.  Some time back you questioned me about Calvin Ridley, that he wasn't listed as a top prospect by CBS sports.  Have they figured out who he is at this point?

That CBS still has Rudolph as their #1 qb is ludicrous. I've yet to see their rationale making Rudolph the #1 prospect, or did they just pull names out of a hat? Every other ranking I looked at has Mason around #5 or #6 as a qb prospect.  Saying there's no drop off in the  talent level 1-6 is crazy. 

EDIT: After meditating on this one, here you go Gipper- the CBS ranking is what's called a "contrarian" ranking. They think they'll get more clicks by being stupid instead of ranking the prospects the same as everyone else.  

Here's a prospect ranking that in my book that carries a lot more weight- Daniel Jeremiah's http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000919918/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2018-nfl-draft-20

Rudolph isn't even listed in his top 50 prospects.  BTW, DJ has Darnold as his #7 prospect- so projecting him at #4 is hardly a "reach", Considering every one ahead of him is a position player, not crazy at all to take Darnold at #1.