Baker Mayfield Thread

[BobPOUND!]

Might already be out there, but I haven't seen a thread for this guy yet.. I am not a college ball guy, but I have watched a lot of you tubes on the 3 or 4 major prospects and have seen little attention given to Baker Mayfield.

I watched the fan boy vids of each of the 4 top guys and of course they look great. But then you watch every throw they make against a good team like Ohio State and then they look a lot different. I watched Darnold in that game and I was less than impressed. Saw him throwing into double even triple coverage. Sure there were a LOT of dropped passes, but he made a lot of iffy decisions in that game.

 

On the other hand Baker Mayfield has a similar look about him, but definitely smaller(at 6'1"). He has a good arm and throw darts. But I really like his decision making in that game. Threw into double coverage , but ball was placed where only the receiver could get it. He seemed to be checking down 3 and even 4 deep before scrambling. Scrambles great especially on the weak side.

 

I really liked Mayfield in the very limited film I've seen of him. Not sure if there are other things that are negatives, like off field cowpoop.. But I would love to see this play out.

 

Take Saquon Barkley at 1 and I think it is likely that Mayfield is available at 4...

Thoughts?

[jrb12711]

Firstly, what I've said all along is that if you like a QB at #4, you take hum #1. If Mayfield is the dude, it's an insane and completely ridiculous gamble to assume he'll be there at 4 when the Jets are obviously going QB, and the Giants very well might. It's much more likely Barkley will be there at 4.

With that being said, the biggest thing that scares me about Mayfield is the track record of BIG 12 QB's. At some point you've gotta sit there and realize there's an alarming pattern of QB's flaming out, whether that be from a school, conference, or region. I mean, looking at this list (which I wouldn't argue with) http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1987808-big-12-football-power-ranking-the-10-best-quarterbacks-of-all-time you see all the all time great Big 12 guys were just duds in the NFL (which we've learned twice already). Sure several of those guys are quality backups, but we're well past that point of drafting a dude like that. I suppose a QB will eventually break the mold of this thing, but I don't see it being Mayfield. 

[gumby73]

3 hours ago, BobPOUND! said:

Take Saquon Barkley at 1 and I think it is likely that Mayfield is available at 4...

Thoughts?

you can't steal this but your Frosting your cake before Baker'ing it..(NY/NY sits at #2&#3) but I do have white removable Duct Tape over my Man hell jersey till Draft day...MA YFIELD (tia won't let me hire Lincoln Riley thanks to Chip Kelly)  EDIt- Some compare Baker to Doug Flutie..naaa.He's not R.Wilson, small hands and much slower 40. Some do run faster being football chased. Not saying he's Brees but Brees took a couple seasons to see the light. Sure I've looked. Brees at combine would be hand timed. Brees played 45 games at Purdue(BM=48)//Both completed 1026 passes, Brees 1678 attempts, 61.1% for 11792 yards,90 tds.45 picks,132.5 QB rate  (BM=1497 attempts,68.5% for 14607 yards,131 tds. 30 picks, 175.4 qb rate)//Bress in school was 72.30 inches high/BM=6'1"//weight brees 213//BM=215//40 times Brees 4.85,BM=4.84//Bress hands are a inch bigger at 10.25.// 20 shut Brees 4.21,BM=4.28//3 cone Brees 7.09,BM=7.0//all in all some similarities are possible. Brees scores 28 in wonderlic.BM=25..can Dorsey pass, on weighing off the field issues to the safer Darnold or the head of class of Rosen? 

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, BobPOUND! said:

Take Saquon Barkley at 1 and I think it is likely that Mayfield is available at 4...

Thoughts?

You haven't seen Po's 50 pages worth- in three different threads- of Barkley love and board rebuttal? There's hundreds of dollars and other miscellaneous bets he won't take that Barkley will not be the Browns pick at #1. 

Get your top QB first, and if Saquon isn't there at #4- it's no big deal. You take the best defensive player on the board instead- Chubb... 

[7moses7]

Did someone say Baker Mayfield?🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

[Flugel]

12 hours ago, gumby73 said:

you can't steal this but your Frosting your cake before Baker'ing it..(NY/NY sits at #2&#3) but I do have white removable Duct Tape over my Man hell jersey till Draft day...MA YFIELD (tia won't let me hire Lincoln Riley thanks to Chip Kelly)  EDIt- Some compare Baker to Doug Flutie..naaa.He's not R.Wilson, small hands and much slower 40. Some do run faster being football chased. Not saying he's Brees but Brees took a couple seasons to see the light. Sure I've looked. Brees at combine would be hand timed. Brees played 45 games at Purdue(BM=48)//Both completed 1026 passes, Brees 1678 attempts, 61.1% for 11792 yards,90 tds.45 picks,132.5 QB rate  (BM=1497 attempts,68.5% for 14607 yards,131 tds. 30 picks, 175.4 qb rate)//Bress in school was 72.30 inches high/BM=6'1"//weight brees 213//BM=215//40 times Brees 4.85,BM=4.84//Bress hands are a inch bigger at 10.25.// 20 shut Brees 4.21,BM=4.28//3 cone Brees 7.09,BM=7.0//all in all some similarities are possible. Brees scores 28 in wonderlic.BM=25..can Dorsey pass, on weighing off the field issues to the safer Darnold or the head of class of Rosen? 

Great stuff Gumbs!   I feel the same way about thinking he's most like Brees. And to your point about Brees, he was only 2-9 in his 3rd NFL season with a 57.6 comp % and 11 TD passes to 15 INTs. That was a big reason the Chargers drafted a QB 1st overall the next year. If Philip Rivers didn't hold out for the length of training camp, the Hall of Fame caliber career may have never started in Drew's 4th season.  The Chargers made a nice adjustment in his 4th year.  They drafted a Center out of Purdue Nick Hardwick who was accustomed to snapping for the shot gun formations Purdue QBs were cozy with (especially Brees). And where that helped him most - was with his pre-snap peripheral vision which ultimately enabled him to get rid of the ball quicker. If you go back and read some of his pre-draft scouting reports - some questioned how he'd adapt to being up under Center.  A BIG key to getting Brees from a forgettable "once upon a time" to the "happily ever after" was the coaching staff finally putting him in the formations he thrived in at Purdue much more frequently. 

With any of these QBs - it's very important that the coaching staff puts them in the right setting for what they're wired to be.  For examples, if Cam Newton or Russell Wilson were asked to be cement shoe'd pocket passers only - they probably would have been handcuffed to disappointment.

I think we have 3 really intriguing prospects on our door step with Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen. I thought I had it narrowed down to 2 guys like last year; but Rosen grew on me way more than I expected him to.  The Brees story reminds me that any of these guys can emerge as quickly as the coaching staff allows them to in tandem with how/what they are wired to be. If you gotta Dr Frankenstein the QB's wiring, you don't just have the wrong QB. You have the wrong FO... 

[Flugel]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

You haven't seen Po's 50 pages worth- in three different threads- of Barkley love and board rebuttal?

Hallmark did and they fired Cupid for slacking.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

With any of these QBs - it's very important that the coaching staff puts them in the right setting for what they're wired to be.  For examples, if Cam Newton or Russell Wilson were asked to be cement shoe'd pocket passers only - they probably would have been handcuffed to disappointment.

And there-in lies the problem in a nutshell. Round peg meet square hole. Do not round off the square hole,  just whittle away at the round peg until you got nothing left and get a new one the following draft. We need a HC and OC who can adapt an offense to the talent we have and not the other way around. Sure try to find a QB that fits your O best, but if it isn't perfect you have to adapt the offense. Kessler was a great example. Hue was forcing him to look/throw deep all the time when that was not his strong point. And that is exactly why he got replaced in a game we were winning if I recall correctly. BTW there is no one happier than me that we got a legit slot receiver for the short/medium game. I was hoping we would draft Kirk to take that role, but we got one of the best now, so no need to draft him unless we want more than one. But look at how many little quick fleas like that Brady has kept busy. It's one of the secrets of his success.

EDIT: BTW here's Fitzpatrick's take on Kirk

https://www.seccountry.com/texas-am/texas-aggies-football-minkah-fitzpatrick-christian-kirk-alabama-2018-nfl-draft-sec-player

[Tour2ma]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

I feel the same way about thinking (Mayfield)'s most like Brees.

Where I've landed as well... potentially.

Mayfield doesn't have the tools to be Wilson, so IF he is going to be successful he has to go the Brees route. Unfortunately there are no guarantees he gets to the destination.

[hoorta]

53 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Where I've landed as well... potentially.

Mayfield doesn't have the tools to be Wilson, so IF he is going to be successful he has to go the Brees route. Unfortunately there are no guarantees he gets to the destination.

^^^, or can Darnold fix his mechanics and fumbelitis, Allen his accuracy, and sorry Tour- I worry about Rosen's ability to stay healthy. Mayfield- Darnold, Darnold- Mayfield Thursday night. The others need not apply. I can live with Rosen if that's the choice. Just no to Allen- & I hope Lamar Jackson isn't in the discussion. 

[LionOfBuddha]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Where I've landed as well... potentially.

Mayfield doesn't have the tools to be Wilson, so IF he is going to be successful he has to go the Brees route. Unfortunately there are no guarantees he gets to the destination.

Go watch Drew Brees’ college tape at Purdue. It is eerily similar to Baker Mayfield. The way the move in the pocket, the way the extend plays, they way they throw.. all very similar.

I’m no expert so I could be off, but on the surface they look like the same guy

[gumby73]

43 minutes ago, hoorta said:

^^^, or can Darnold fix his mechanics and fumbelitis, Allen his accuracy, and sorry Tour- I worry about Rosen's ability to stay healthy. Mayfield- Darnold, Darnold- Mayfield Thursday night. The others need not apply. I can live with Rosen if that's the choice. Just no to Allen- & I hope Lamar Jackson isn't in the discussion. 

welcome to gumbyland only thing I'll add is we play in a frozen field division. As our schedule will normally show those last 5 games in division will mean the most if Rosen..(at some time) 

34 minutes ago, LionOfBuddha said:

Go watch Drew Brees’ college tape at Purdue. It is eerily similar to Baker Mayfield. The way the move in the pocket, the way the extend plays, they way they throw.. all very similar.

I’m no expert so I could be off, but on the surface they look like the same guy

agree,watched many..And more teams will pass on attitude and he could go as far as Miami or Zona..But with this QB crop, it could be a 2nd, 3rd , maybe even a 6th rounder that fools every teams evaluations? Vania White could spin the wheel of fortune at this point.. 

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

Go watch Drew Brees’ college tape at Purdue. It is eerily similar to Baker Mayfield. The way the move in the pocket, the way the extend plays, they way they throw.. all very similar.

I’m no expert so I could be off, but on the surface they look like the same guy

Even between the ears? Can't say I watched Brees much back then, but OU's offense is so dumbed down compared to what passing offenses like Purdue's asked of their QBs back in the 90's that it's a concern for me.

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

^^^, or can Darnold fix his mechanics and fumbelitis, Allen his accuracy, and sorry Tour- I worry about Rosen's ability to stay healthy. Mayfield- Darnold, Darnold- Mayfield Thursday night. The others need not apply. I can live with Rosen if that's the choice. Just no to Allen- & I hope Lamar Jackson isn't in the discussion. 

Just so, so much to fix with Darnold and there's nothing harder to fix that what ails Allen. In addition to the above Mayfield's patience concerns me; hard to see him sitting and learning for up to a year without sounding off.

Rosen? I get the concern and if he's been medically disqualified as some reports have it, then that has to be honored. But short of a med staff DQ, he's still my guy.

Rosen's the only prospect that does not have to overcome, or fix, something to be all he can be. He simply has to avoid one thing...

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Just so, so much to fix with Darnold

I understand where you are coming from.  After punctuating a good freshman year with the flawless performance he had against Penn State, I ran hot and cold with him throughout 2017.  I don't know what took him all the way to meeting Jordan Palmer this off-season to realize he needs 2 hands on the ball to secure it properly.

I'm not sure a lot of people understand exactly how much QB experience Darnold has overall between high school and college careers.  It's only THREE years. I thought this extract of a Wikipedia article might be helpful for some to see why you and others worry about how much there is to fix:

On the football team, Darnold played wide receiver and linebacker, though he played quarterback as a sophomore after the starting quarterback was injured in a game against Tesoro High School. He threw a touchdown pass and scored the game-winning two-point conversion, but returned to playing receiver and linebacker a week later.^[2] When he became the school's permanent quarterback, Darnold broke the school record for the most touchdown passes in a game when he threw five on two occasions.^[4]He missed much of his junior year with a foot injury.^[2] In his senior year, San Clemente reached the CIF-Southern Section Southwest Division championship game, where they lost 44–37 to Trabuco Hills High School.^[5] He ended his senior season with 3,000 passing yards and 39 touchdowns, along with 800 rushing yards and 13 rushing touchdowns.^[

^{Let's do the math here:  He played part of 1 game at QB soph year. Missed most of his junior year. Played his senior year.  That's about 1 full season + 4 games for an entire high school career.  Then he only played 2 years at USC missing his 1st 2-3 games as a red shirt freshman.  I only see 3 full years of starting at QB especially if I subtract the 2 or 3 games he missed as a Fresh at USC from the few he appeared in as a junior in high school.}

^{Here's an angel's advocate.  At this time last year, there were a lot of people that didn't think just 1 off season with Jordan Palmer would fix enough of DeShaun Watson's game for the NFL.  And another alleged negative that went viral about what he would have to overcome when it was reported he didn't have the RPMs and velocity behind the throws at the combines to be successful.  Sometimes if you have the vision, pre-snap intellect, and anticipation - you can overcome not having a bionic arm by getting the ball there on time as depicted when Watson looked best among his peers (as did Trubisky) at throwing the short outs at the Combine up against many that were waiting and hitching.  Those throws were consistently on the money regardless of what stranger he was throwing to next.  Anyway, maybe Jordan Palmer delivers the same magic to Darnold that he brought to Watson.}   

 

[Orion]

I just don't see Jimmy & Dee allowing Mayfield to be the face of their franchise.  (and the voice of the franchise in interviews & pressers)

[Tour2ma]

35 minutes ago, Flugel said:

^{Here's an angel's advocate.  At this time last year, there were a lot of people that didn't think just 1 off season with Jordan Palmer would fix enough of DeShaun Watson's game for the NFL.  And another alleged negative that went viral about what he would have to overcome when it was reported he didn't have the RPMs and velocity behind the throws at the combines to be successful.  Sometimes if you have the vision, pre-snap intellect, and anticipation - you can overcome not having a bionic arm by getting the ball there on time as depicted when Watson looked best among his peers (as did Trubisky) at throwing the short outs at the Combine up against many that were waiting and hitching.  Those throws were consistently on the money regardless of what stranger he was throwing to next.  Anyway, maybe Jordan Palmer delivers the same magic to Darnold that he brought to Watson.}   

• Well aware of Darnold's limited QB history. He came out of USC the same or worse than he went in.
• The comp to Watson rings hollow. Deshaun had good mechanics coming out of Clemson and clearly was the most pro ready between the ears. He dropped due to injury history... which apparently was warranted.
• Can't draft a kid #1 overall on a "maybe".

You need an angel of your better nature...

[Tour2ma]

The ex-scout who doesn't like Darnold and loathes Allen, thinks Baker is the pick of the 2018 litter...

“Anybody who doesn’t take Mayfield at the top is making a big mistake,’’ he said. “Mayfield is head and shoulders above any quarterback.’’

https://nypost.com/2018/04/17/one-draft-qb-spared-in-scouts-scathing-draft-take-cow-on-ice/

[Flugel]

2 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

• Well aware of Darnold's limited QB history. He came out of USC the same or worse than he went in.
• The comp to Watson rings hollow.

I wasn't directing Darnold's limited history at you if you read the context of my point. It was more of an agreement/understanding of where you were coming from because there's a lot of people in here that don't seem to have any idea he's only a 3 year starter (combining both high school and college) when you say there's a lot to clean up. 

The comparison to Watson is only hollow if you need it to be. Watson had stuff to clean up too like 17 INTs in 2016 and 13 INTs in 2015.  There's 30 reason he headed off to the same QB Tutor (Jordan Palmer) that Darnold did. 

[LionOfBuddha]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Even between the ears? Can't say I watched Brees much back then, but OU's offense is so dumbed down compared to what passing offenses like Purdue's asked of their QBs back in the 90's that it's a concern for me.

 

Again, I’m no expert, but watching the experts analyze his game they say he does have it between the ears. Many teams, including the Browns with Dorsey having specifically mentioned how quickly he picked up and understood the playbook at the Senior bowl

[Tour2ma]

14 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

Again, I’m no expert, but watching the experts analyze his game they say he does have it between the ears. Many teams, including the Browns with Dorsey having specifically mentioned how quickly he picked up and understood the playbook at the Senior bowl

As neither am I... and I can't remember my last Holiday Inn Express stay.

Baker may well be capable. I just haven't seen game consistent evidence in a low-demand Offense.

15 hours ago, Flugel said:

The comparison to Watson is only hollow if you need it to be. Watson had stuff to clean up too like 17 INTs in 2016 and 13 INTs in 2015.  There's 30 reason he headed off to the same QB Tutor (Jordan Palmer) that Darnold did. 

If true, then what did Palmer fix? QB guru's don't fix "INTs". And I have the proof...

As a rookie Watson threw 8 INTs in seven games.

[TexasAg1969]

6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

As neither am I... and I can't remember my last Holiday Inn Express stay.

Well book a room for draft nights 1 & 2 then.

[jiggins7919]

On 4/21/2018 at 7:10 AM, Flugel said:

Great stuff Gumbs!   I feel the same way about thinking he's most like Brees. And to your point about Brees, he was only 2-9 in his 3rd NFL season with a 57.6 comp % and 11 TD passes to 15 INTs. That was a big reason the Chargers drafted a QB 1st overall the next year. If Philip Rivers didn't hold out for the length of training camp, the Hall of Fame caliber career may have never started in Drew's 4th season.  The Chargers made a nice adjustment in his 4th year.  They drafted a Center out of Purdue Nick Hardwick who was accustomed to snapping for the shot gun formations Purdue QBs were cozy with (especially Brees). And where that helped him most - was with his pre-snap peripheral vision which ultimately enabled him to get rid of the ball quicker. If you go back and read some of his pre-draft scouting reports - some questioned how he'd adapt to being up under Center.  A BIG key to getting Brees from a forgettable "once upon a time" to the "happily ever after" was the coaching staff finally putting him in the formations he thrived in at Purdue much more frequently. 

With any of these QBs - it's very important that the coaching staff puts them in the right setting for what they're wired to be.  For examples, if Cam Newton or Russell Wilson were asked to be cement shoe'd pocket passers only - they probably would have been handcuffed to disappointment.

I think we have 3 really intriguing prospects on our door step with Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen. I thought I had it narrowed down to 2 guys like last year; but Rosen grew on me way more than I expected him to.  The Brees story reminds me that any of these guys can emerge as quickly as the coaching staff allows them to in tandem with how/what they are wired to be. If you gotta Dr Frankenstein the QB's wiring, you don't just have the wrong QB. You have the wrong FO... 

I have legitimate concerns we're going to draft Allen. While I'm obviously not a pro scout, I feel like I've been right way more than wrong when diagnosing qb's. For instance, I hated every single QB we've drafted. No matter how many times I tried to convince myself otherwise. And what do you know? They all sucked. When watching Allen, my "he's going to be a colossal bust" alarm goes off. 

The other 3, Baker, Rosen, Darnold, could make me happy after draft day. Baker is still the choice for me, and his firey attitude and precision accuracy make me believe he's got the goods. Baker is fast enough to run read-option, strong enough to throw everything, and has the moxie to elevate us from the toilet bowl. 

[TexasAg1969]

6 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I have legitimate concerns we're going to draft Allen. While I'm obviously not a pro scout, I feel like I've been right way more than wrong when diagnosing qb's. For instance, I hated every single QB we've drafted. No matter how many times I tried to convince myself otherwise. And what do you know? They all sucked. When watching Allen, my "he's going to be a colossal bust" alarm goes off. 

The other 3, Baker, Rosen, Darnold, could make me happy after draft day. Baker is still the choice for me, and his firey attitude and precision accuracy make me believe he's got the goods. Baker is fast enough to run read-option, strong enough to throw everything, and has the moxie to elevate us from the toilet bowl. 

If it wasn't for 3 facts I would draft Rosen in a  heartbeat.

1. 2 concussions in HS

2. 2 concussions in college

3. Father is a doctor and you can bet Josh will give up football in a NY minute if his father advises him to do so once he's made a few  $Mil. That might be only a season if we take him first overall.

[nickers]

On 4/21/2018 at 12:49 AM, hoorta said:

You haven't seen Po's 50 pages worth- in three different threads- of Barkley love and board rebuttal? There's hundreds of dollars and other miscellaneous bets he won't take that Barkley will not be the Browns pick at #1. 

Get your top QB first, and if Saquon isn't there at #4- it's no big deal. You take the best defensive player on the board instead- Chubb... 

Then Po should just commit Hari Kari and get it over with.. It would do us all a favor from seeing his fanboy rhetoric, day in and day out.. I like the kid.. but jeeze.. At some point in ones life.. You would hope maturity and common sense takes over... And sets in...

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

If it wasn't for 3 facts I would draft Rosen in a  heartbeat.

1. 2 concussions in HS

2. 2 concussions in college

3. Father is a doctor and you can bet Josh will give up football in a NY minute if his father advises him to do so once he's made a few  $Mil. That might be only a season if we take him first overall.

You might be absolutely correct about this, but here's a little fact many people on here probably don't know (and I didn't either until recently):

There's a QB in the NFL who is from California, comes from money, and his father is a doctor (chiropractor)... His name is Aaron Rodgers. Anyone think Rodgers is retiring anytime soon because of his season-ending injury last season?

[TexasAg1969]

Concussion is far worse in terms of football than any other injury to overcome as a lifelong aftereffect.

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

... and I can't remember my last Holiday Inn Express stay.

I do.. it was when Greensboro,NC aloud the NCAA Basketball tourney..For some reason, Hughesnet booked the same hotel for training..Picture this in a navy blue 1 piece swimming..

   with your wife & kids poolside  good god! what a body on this one..ok back to Bake-her

[Flugel]

14 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

If true, then what did Palmer fix? QB guru's don't fix "INTs". And I have the proof...

As a rookie Watson threw 8 INTs in seven games.

Way to deviate from your opinion that 30 INTs in his final 2 seasons at Clemson = zero to work on for a prospect heading to an NFL offense.  Nice job of leaving out the 19 TD passes he threw as a wide eyed rookie in your quest to prove all his time spent with Jordan Palmer was just a waste of time. That brings the TD:INT ratio to a very inconvenient 19:8 for you while Houston improved to being the top scoring offense in 5 of the 7 weeks Watson started.  Not bad considering what they looked like in his absence.  I dare say I saw an expedited learning curve that made him happy he spent all that off-season time with Jordan Palmer while you need to assure yourself it was all just a complete waste of time. You don't teach a guy to just prevent INTs - you teach him a holistic approach to an NFL passing game vrs complicated NFL defenses that college barnball offenses ill-prepare their QBs for today.  Hopefully it shows up in the type of TD:INT ratio Houston was very fond of from their rookie QB.  That NFL starting point even compares favorably to Peyton Manning's 26 TDs:28 INTs. 

In your see no evil hear no evil defense of Rosen - Jordan Palmer has be a waste of time since Darnold is working with him while Rosen is not.  Gee, who didn't see this one coming?  Have you seen the video the NFL Channel keeps showing about the conversation Rosen had with Aaron Rodgers?  Rodgers is telling him about a hop and a hitch he adds to certain occasions/scenarios that he finds helpful. Have you had a chance to straighten him out yet?

This conversation started out with me agreeing with you that Darnold has a lot to work on so I didn't expect your knees to buckle so easily when I piggybacked on.  While I've come a long way on Rosen,  I don't think he's as consistent the people looking down their noses at Darnold think he is.  And while I'm at it, UCLA has an OT that is projected to go in rd 1 or 2 while Athlon Draft Guide says they have the 5th best OG slated to go in rd 3 or 4.  Not bad considering I kept hearing Poor Rosen allegedly never gets any help from his teammates.  Who's getting drafted from USC's line this year? If I get asked by a Rosen fan what if you they swapped teams.  I ask does Rosen's football career end the day Ohio State's pass rush decimates USC's pass pro up front?   Just to illustrate the difference in Darnold's pass pro and adversity from 2016 to 2017 - he was only sacked 6 times in 2016 vrs 29 times in 2017.  That 2017 volume doesn't sound like protection Rosen would prefer or thrive in especially considering how many more concussions he can afford.

Here's a statistical comparison of Darnold and Rosen in spite of their overall experience and foot polish:
Darnold 20 wins 4 los 7229 yds 8.5 ypa 64.9 cmp% 57 TD 22 INT 332 ydrus 7 TD rush  21 fum 35 sacks

Rosen 17 wins 13 los 9339 yds 8.0 ypa 60.9 cmp% 59 TD 26 INT -153 ydrus 6 TD rush 20 fum 53 sacks

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

If it wasn't for 3 facts I would draft Rosen in a  heartbeat.

1. 2 concussions in HS

2. 2 concussions in college

3. Father is a doctor and you can bet Josh will give up football in a NY minute if his father advises him to do so once he's made a few  $Mil. That might be only a season if we take him first overall.

Speaking a NY minute, it doesn't get any better at #2 overall.  Nobody had worse pass pro than the NY Football Giants in 2017. And if they go QB at #2 overall, they're neglecting the best possible immediate help at protecting a 1st round QB investment.  

 

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Concussion is far worse in terms of football than any other injury to overcome as a lifelong aftereffect.

Absolutely, and I totally get why people hesitate to back Rosen due to injury concerns.

But it's still interesting to note that Rosen isn't the only rich kid from California whose dad is a doctor.