Inside Info about a Divided Browns Org on our QB? Interesting stuff from a guy who (says he) knows a guy...

[Tour2ma]

This stirred up reddit a little while ago when a poster imported it from the Browns' section of another forum, Football's Future.

Personally I found the reported takes to be plausible, if not credible, in no small part due to confirmation bias, if nothing else.

However, regardless of the credibility you give it, you might find the described recon approach teams take to be as fascinating an account of corporate espionage as I did.

Below is the OP from the original site with later edits of the reddit back and forth removed.

Here's the link to the thread: https://forums.footballsfuture.com/topic/7725-the-coaches-want-rosen-at-1-other-serious-browns-draft-rumblings/

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**LONG POST ALERT***

I have some terrible news to inform everyone.

It looks like we really will be passing on Darnold....

THIS IS NOT SOME STUPID TROLL, or me doing the reverse psychology thing saying Baker's going first while secretly feeling giddy and knowing we're taking Darnold at 1 as a way to cope with the possibility the Browns might screw this up.

(Skip to The News below if u must)

As I've said before, my brother in law was a scout & personnel assistant exec for 11 years. I never ID'd his team when he was employed but he was canned in the mass firings when Mr. Reese and co. were fired from the Giants.

Although I'm often wrong about my own predictions, my b.o i. always cautioned me that what he'd tell me in terms of rumors has a chance of being misinformation put out by other teams to hide their true intentions. However, the vast majority of things he told me that I posted on this forum came true.

For example, for those people that actually paid attention to my posts on the old forum before last year's draft, you'd remember that based on what my b.o.i. heard at the combine I posted "the Bears will look to trade up for Trubisky with either the Browns at 1 or San Fran at 2." At the time, only 3 people responded to that post.

I also posted that "Sashi Brown was seen twice via my b.o.i.'s team spycraft department, 1st with Rick Smith of the Texans, and 2nd with Ryan Pace of the Bears at a private membership only room at a Wine & Cigar lounge in Indy" and... "Dont be surprised if we trade one of our picks to the Bears or Texans." That post received 2 responses and came true regarding the draft.

Teams have 10s and even 100s of thousands of dollar budget for their "spycraft" depts that includes things you wouldnt even believe all in order to propel the interests of their million dollar cash cows.

One of the more basic ways for teams to get inside info is to recruit disgruntled "soon to be fired" scouts and personnel staffers away from another team while they are still employed and possibly privy to strategic information. ALL teams try to do this. The best and smartest teams top execs leave scouts & even key personnel staffers in the dark on real rankings and strategy for fear of info leaking out. The elite top execs only inform the owner & a select few before the draft. Smart top execs run disinformation campaigns and put up false rankings in plain view of scouts and staffers so the disinfo will leak to teams giving them an advantage to operate under the veil of confusion.

The News: My b.o.i. told me this morning "the scuttlebut is that 6 Browns scouts & 1 personnel exec have been "respectably" flipped (i.e., they already agreed to move on to a team without breaching the trust of their former employee) due to being promised future jobs & due to being disgruntled"...However, 2 scouts and 1 personnel exec has been "unhonorably flipped" (i.e., informing on the teams draft beliefs while still employed to another team) with 1 person in particular "lacking any sort of ethics and is singing like canary so much that the team he's giving the info to is secretly laughing their a**es off b/c they know there's no way in hell they're hiring this guy after all this."

Apparently, there is already a major rift between the offensive coaches & the top personnel execs regarding the pick at 1 and ranking the QBs. It's likely irreconcilable.

In what was a shocker to me as a "Darnold no matter" what guy Todd Haley, Ken Zampese, Hue Jackson, and Al Saunders (he's become a de facto QB scout) are united in the belief that Josh Rosen is their guy, clear cut by a wide margin. The combine interview only confirmed this and they are all in. They all agree that Sam Darnold is their number 2, but there are some disagreements between the coaches on who is 3rd as some say Baker Mayfield while others surprisingly say Lamar Jackson. All the coaches apparently have Josh Allen 5th which completely surprised me.

The only personnel execs that mostly agree with the coaches are Eliot Wolf & Andrew Berry with Wolf having Darnold as QB1 and AB having had Darnold at 1 precombine but put Rosen ahead at 1 after the interview as Darnold tanked the interview and had no presence on the white board (I'd say did Mariota or Eli have a presence? Did Favre do a great job with X&Os on the board? No... but I digress..)

The rest of the top personnel staff (John Dorsey, Scot McCloughan--yes he's a top staffer more on that in a bit, and Alonzo Highsmith) along with Paul DePodesta have Baker Mayfield as their clear cut leader by a wide margin. The personnel guys then have Josh Allen number 2! Followed by Sam Darnold at 3 and Josh Rosen at 4. Paul DePo supposedly has it Baker, Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, & Allen.

Complicating the matter is apparently Scot McCloughan has come in waving a big stick as a former GM like he's the de facto top personnel guy when John Dorsey isnt around. He pulls his "when i was GM" card out in every debate. He is not consulting with other teams as that was just a farce to buy him time to finish some past due work that he and his company owed some teams for purchasing their scouting services. He is a full time Browns employee. This has in particular caused friction with Eliot Wolf as he thought he'd have that "right hand man assistant GM" role and it seems that Scot will have a powerful permanent position after the draft unless something changes and problems can be worked out.

Right now, John Dorsey is supposedly selling Jimmy that Baker is the top prospect as identified by Analytics and Traditional Scouting methodology with Paul DePo in his corner. Dorsey and Scot were blown away by Baker's combine interview while coaches thought he was too defensive.

As a temporary compromise just to keep the peace while much draft work is still to be done, the coaches and personnel execs are now strongly discussing that they will take their number 1 player on the big board Bradley Chubb at #1 overall and their QB at 4. Which to me makes ABSOLUTELY NO FU**ING sense at all when we need a QB.....but again I digress...

Distraught on Skype I immediately asked my b.o.i. " if this was all a joke" and "how certain are you that this isnt just elegant disinformation on the Browns part"?

He told me it's absolutely not a joke and the same spycraft dept heads (some of the best in the business) that he trusted in NY all those years have the Giants new personnel staff convinced that it is real enough to the point where everyone on the Giants staff except for new GM Dave Gettleman and an assistant staffer are operating as if it's true and they'll have their pick of all the QBs at 2 or at worst Baker Mayfield will go 1.

I've jokingly been saying Baker would go 1 but secretly believed Hue and co AND Dorsey all loved Sam Darnold at 1. I never even considered the thought that Josh Rosen wouldve been the unanimous selection among the coaches.

My only hope now is that some compromise is struck and we go Chubb at 1 and Rosen makes it to 4 based on the personality thing, or Hue and the coaches win out and we take Rosen at 1 to guarantee we get our QB, or that meathead Dorsey is running the most sophisticated 4D chess misinformation game utilizing scouts, coaches, and personnel people as pawns to fool the scouting community. I'll hold my breath on the latter.

Say goodbye to Darnold for real my friends. He's the hero we deserved...I'll never stop believing that based on the tape review. It just really sucks...

I'm now going to watch Rosen again and try to 1. convince myself I like him more than Darnold and 2. Somehow the coaches desires win out...wish me luck..

Oh...P.S. I hate-love (more hate than anything) this sh** team with all my heart.. 

[Nero]

This has suddenly become even more interesting. True or not is fascinating...

(Remembers the Browns is his team) and scary as hell. Please, WHOEVER it is... Don't f*** this up.

[The Gipper]

Well....it sounds from this that there is clearly NO consensus on who the pick should be.

So, I guess the key thing is:  it comes down to who The Decider wants.  And the decider is...no, not George W. Bush....but Dorsey, no? 

Doesn't he have final say?  

Or....would it....God forbid....come down to whom  Jimmy and Dee want?

[tiamat63]

Please, baby Jesus... let the bit about Rosen being their guy be true. 

[Tour2ma]

13 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Please, baby Jesus... let the bit about Rosen being their guy be true. 

I hear ya, but the staff is on "the wrong side" here.

What gets interesting since we are allegedly split on the consensus 3rd and 4th QBs in the Draft is the possibility of trading out of #1 overall and letting the fates determine which QB falls to us at #4.

Of course with our luck they's ether both still be there or both be gone...

[tiamat63]

2 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I hear ya, but the staff is on "the wrong side" here.

What gets interesting since we are allegedly split on the consensus 3rd and 4th QBs in the Draft is the possibility of trading out of #1 overall and letting the fates determine which QB falls to us at #4.

Of course with our luck they's ether both still be there or both be gone...

 

Id hope Dorsey realizes the last hyped B12 QB he took was physically miles ahead of Baker, Sat near a full season and still looked like a deer in headlights during his first start. 

 

[gumby73]

Any more Boots on the ground and am logging in as Sonny Weaver Jr. on reddit  

  You are what your record says you are..If your part of 1-31. Your ticket has already been punched with riding the Tyrod Taylor Train for a year..Depo,Berry,Huejax,Al Saunders..have a seat on the hot seat bench..The New Bloods will take it from here..Your all a bunch of idiots if your not taking Rosen or Mayfield or Darnold at #1. You'll soon be at #4 looking at your 4th or 5th QB choice..(at least your all on same page of #5, congrats)..I swear, Goodell should let Browns fans have a phone in marathon or internet poll before pick #4     

[LionOfBuddha]

I’d rather have this be true than the rumors about us taking Allen at 1

[gumby73]

buddha, your john dorsey..you just told your best long time friend "were taking Allen" would you believe him than put it out there? Or were you told by your best friend TO put it out there? Haley should see anything close to Ben..and Allen is not

[Canton Mike]

My response......

                                                                                

That's it! I'm just gonna wait until 4/26, then I'm gonna deal with whatever the hell happens!

Mike

[D Bone]

< what most of us are really thinking if we're all being honest >    "How are they going to Browns it up again this year?"  

[TexasAg1969]

39 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

My response......

                                                                                

That's it! I'm just gonna wait until 4/26, then I'm gonna deal with whatever the hell happens!

Mike

Even if it's this? He is a Brown you know.

 

[LionOfBuddha]

23 minutes ago, D Bone said:

< what most of us are really thinking if we're all being honest >    "How are they going to Browns it up again this year?"  

Exactly. I had a dream (nightmare?) we took some obscure guard from Washington State at 1. Lmao 

[Orion]

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

would it....God forbid....come down to whom  Jimmy and Dee want?

If the scenario was true....then it absolutely could, God forbid, come to that.  

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I hear ya, but the staff is on "the wrong side" here.

What gets interesting since we are allegedly split on the consensus 3rd and 4th QBs in the Draft is the possibility of trading out of #1 overall and letting the fates determine which QB falls to us at #4.

Of course with our luck they's ether both still be there or both be gone...

If this is for real Tour- at least it's not Allen- whew! who doesn't even get into Berea for a couple days...  But will they roll the dice take Chubb #1, and pray Rosen or Mayfield will be there at #4?  

[tiamat63]

Dorsey wanting Mayfield makes more sense with the Tyrod trade. 

[Tour2ma]

Style-wise, there's no doubt, but in reality there were no other choices than Tyrod... excepting maybe AJ McC.

2 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

Exactly. I had a dream (nightmare?) we took some obscure guard from Washington State at 1. Lmao 

I wasn't aware that he declared...

[Mike H]

I find a lot of his story believable, even the consensus of each person, except it feels fictional, mainly the cliche' perception of which parties would "like" which type of player better. Depodesta, the analytics guy, likes the hugely efficent stat-stuffer Mayfield the best -- shocker. McLoughan was a touted Mayfield honk before coming to CLE. The football coaches like the perceived safer and proven guy in Rosen. Allen is an outlier... All of those things I have heard many people from Twitter, to texts, to convos say to me, which makes me doubt the guy a little bit. There also isn't any kind of earth-shattering breakthrough insight that makes me think he has inside access. But maybe it is just as simple as it seems, and he's telling the truth.

It's very plausible this is true, and also just as likely it's fan fiction fabrication.

Who knows.

[Tour2ma]

Could not agree more... it's at least plausible, but may be no more than that.

It does seem to be consistent with the "I'm-on-the-outside-looking-in" vibe Hue has been giving off in interview after interview where he talks about "getting together soon" one moment and "may not decide until draft day" the next.

Even if the poster's bro-in-law is still plugged into the NYG FO, he can't be as "in" as he was when he worked there.

[LionOfBuddha]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Style-wise, there's no doubt, but in reality there were no other choices than Tyrod... excepting maybe AJ McC.

I wasn't aware that he declared...

Can tell over text if that’s sarcasm or not. Is there really a guard prospect from WSU?

[LionOfBuddha]

This picture gives this scenario a lot more credibility. Look who is directly to the left of Dorsey, yeah that’s Scot McCloughan

 

 

[Kennel Club]

My brother in law's best friend's cat ate John Dorsey's canary and he told me that the Browns are going to select .................. at #1!

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, LionOfBuddha said:

This picture gives this scenario a lot more credibility. Look who is directly to the left of Dorsey, yeah that’s Scot McCloughan

 

 

 

Could see this ending up as a 

Dorsey:  "Jimmy, you brought me here so trust the process"

Jimmy: " You're right, John.  You make the call"

And we end up with Mayfield or Allen via that.   

[Dutch Oven]

6 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

This picture gives this scenario a lot more credibility. Look who is directly to the left of Dorsey, yeah that’s Scot McCloughan

 

 

Who is to the right of Dorsey? He should be fired based solely on that Shmuckin' shirt. Oof. 

[Orion]

7 hours ago, Mike H said:

It's very plausible this is true, and also just as likely it's fan fiction fabrication.

Yup.  We know that all the experts (and plain ol talking heads) cannot agree on which QB to take.  Why wouldn't that be true for people within a single organization?

[LogicIsForSquares]

27 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Who is to the right of Dorsey? He should be fired based solely on that Shmuckin' shirt. Oof. 

Eliot Wolf in that Cosby (so many connotations now) sweater.

[Zombo]

7 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

This picture gives this scenario a lot more credibility. Look who is directly to the left of Dorsey, yeah that’s Scot McCloughan

 

 

If McCloughlan is the ginger, and he is with a name like that, he is actually behind Dorsey at the Kid's table.

Zombo

[darren15]

Chubb at #1 and a QB at #4 where have we seen that before ?

[LogicIsForSquares]

26 minutes ago, darren15 said:

Chubb at #1 and a QB at #4 where have we seen that before ?

In the "bad ideas" bin at Dollar General? 

[dawg2fan]

11 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Dorsey wanting Mayfield makes more sense with the Tyrod trade. 

Dorsey wanting Mayfield makes no sense to me at all.  Regardless of who our starting QB is this year.  I liked him in college, but the NFL is a different game.