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boo fagley

2017 Browns OL # 1 improved

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I dont recall who it was, but somebody on here has been harping about regular guys good enough for the OL and Joe Thomas.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2018/2017-offensive-line-continuity-scores

The Rams had a continuity score of just 29 in 2016; their leap to 42 in 2017 was the second-best in the league. The biggest improvement was seen in Cleveland, where the Browns jumped from 23 to 39. Left guard Joel Bitonio, center J.C. Tretter, right guard Kevin Zeitler, and right tackle Shon Coleman each started all 16 games for the Browns. At left tackle, Joe Thomas' 167-game ironman streak finally ended when he was injured in Week 7, but Spencer Drango began his own ironman streak by starting every game after that.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

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Tretter and Zeitler were both excellent free agent signings. Zeitler was the #1 guard available. 

 

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Our interior Offensive line is top notch, and putting that road grader from Pittsburgh at RT makes us even better. The question is LT ... Does Shon Coleman have the makings or do we address the position early in the draft? I hear there are not a lot of great prospects at LT, Coleman holds the key.

Zombo

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1 hour ago, Zombo said:

Our interior Offensive line is top notch, and putting that road grader from Pittsburgh at RT makes us even better. The question is LT ... Does Shon Coleman have the makings or do we address the position early in the draft? I hear there are not a lot of great prospects at LT, Coleman holds the key.

Zombo

He really does.  He is going to play the position.   Look, nobody can replace Joe Thomas.    I don't know if we are going to draft a LT type early or not, but I do remember reading that Dorsey feels you should draft a offensive lineman every year.

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2 hours ago, Zombo said:

Our interior Offensive line is top notch, and putting that road grader from Pittsburgh at RT makes us even better. The question is LT ... Does Shon Coleman have the makings or do we address the position early in the draft? I hear there are not a lot of great prospects at LT, Coleman holds the key.

Zombo

Things can obviously change, but I believe the 2019 Draft has the makings of a very strong LT class.

The Browns might have to make due for a season, then get their guy next season. *if Coleman doesn't pan out at LT.

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6 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Things can obviously change, but I believe the 2019 Draft has the makings of a very strong LT class.

The Browns might have to make due for a season, then get their guy next season. *if Coleman doesn't pan out at LT.

Might be a good plan, with 10 Picks still left they can take a shot at a R2 or R3 or later guy for now.

I keep thinking it's Joe T. and the other dudes, they are better than just that.......hmmmmm, maybe they can get Barkley #1? :lol:

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5 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

Tretter and Zeitler were both excellent free agent signings. Zeitler was the #1 guard available. 

 

Was Cam Erving that bad?

Must have been to get a 5th for him. 

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3 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Was Cam Erving that bad?

Must have been to get a 5th for him. 

Hot garbage.

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More like luke warm...

8 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I don't know if we are going to draft a LT type early or not, but I do remember reading that Dorsey feels you should draft a offensive lineman every year.

Phoolie has this much right... there's always value to be found late Day 2 thru Day 3 for OL. Certainly find a lot of depth there, but also come across legit starters every once in a while.

If you think about it, with 5 per team, OL provides the greatest number of college starters to the NFL... especially easy to see when you consider that most college OTs end up better suited for the interior.

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19 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

https://scout.com/nfl/browns/Article/NFL-Draft-Cleveland-Browns-Should-Pass-on-Offensive-Tackles-117193383  

Agree on the low ranking of the class, if not the ordering.

Disagree on the insert about Coleman vs. Robinson. Shon's tape was much more solid than Robinson's was. Where Robinson tested off the charts, Shon displayed more technique, albeit fledgling, than Greg ever did.

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The question and issue still remain.

 

WHAT are the Browns going to do at OLT?

 

Shon Coleman should stay at ORT and improve there.  

 

I personally really hate this OL draft class.   I like two of them at OLT....  

 

Austin Corbett - Nevada

 

Matt Gono - Wesley - will likely need a year to be ready to play NFL ball

 

I haven't seen anything I think will work as an NFL OLT in the rest of 'em...

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On 4/9/2018 at 5:02 AM, boo fagley said:

I dont recall who it was, but somebody on here has been harping about regular guys good enough for the OL and Joe Thomas.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2018/2017-offensive-line-continuity-scores

The Rams had a continuity score of just 29 in 2016; their leap to 42 in 2017 was the second-best in the league. The biggest improvement was seen in Cleveland, where the Browns jumped from 23 to 39. Left guard Joel Bitonio, center J.C. Tretter, right guard Kevin Zeitler, and right tackle Shon Coleman each started all 16 games for the Browns. At left tackle, Joe Thomas' 167-game ironman streak finally ended when he was injured in Week 7, but Spencer Drango began his own ironman streak by starting every game after that.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Boo, thanks for the lead in.

in most things, the general public usually lacks any real organic education in the things they are socially and recreationally involved with. I don't say this to be mean, but it is after all at the very root of why smart businessmen make billions of dollars selling crap products to the average Joe. Pick your poison........diets, water purification products, vitamins, fast food.........and, athletics. People, all through the ages have abandoned their own ability to think for themselves, and indeed, when something we think bucks the system and perhaps causes us ridicule for not chiming in, we generally keep our mouth shut, assimilate and let the "experts" form our opinions and beliefs of how we think things work.

Most on this board are upside down on the concept of continuity, Most on this board have battled with me for years, insisting that the way to success is through continuity, stick-to-it-ness, and staying the course. Sadly, not just in sports, but in life, many people waste much of their life following this line of thinking.

Continuity is not what made the band the Eagles great. The Eagles were great because they all had tremendous musical skills. When they came together, they started making hits in a pretty short time. Oh sure, they got polished and tight over time, but continuity was not in any way, shape or form an ingredient of their success.

Quite the contrary. Because they were so good together, because they found quick, sustainable success together, they CHOSE........... to stay together and keep milking success.  

I have a friend who has had the same band for 22 years. They are horrible. Their harmonies, timing, musicianship, on-stage presence, and everything about them is miserable. Nice guy. They practice countless hours. I could put a band together in a day, and often, if I get a call for a gig that is interesting, I do put a band together at a moments notice. I promise you, while we may not be as tight as a long-term group, we can rock the house. in fact, years back, on a tri[p to Cedar Point I brought a guitar and sat in with WSS. Never gigged with him in my life. Had no rehearsal, no set list. He just called stuff out to me and we rolled. Stan was there, he said we rocked. I know WSS rocked, I hope I held up my end of the bargain, but I think I did okay.

So you see, continuity has little, even less to do with excellence. In fact, continuity can be the absolute worst thing in a man's life. Case in point, the Cleveland Browns.................

Hue Jackson is like my friend Ryan. He has weaknesses that no amount of time will change. Hue's teams are undisciplined, as are his assistants. They make penalties, drop balls, fumble, miss tackles, call absolutley idiotic plays, and exhibit the same recurring behavior in the FO. 1 - 31 is a preview of 2018. You guys just don't want to believe it. You fantasize that

  • Another year together
  • This is the draft that brings it together
  • Dorsey will make a huge difference ( LIke WIlliams, 0 -16 defensive genius made?)

The Browns ARE the model of continuity. That is the problem.

As for the OL, again, why are we still even having this conversation? Joe Thomas has made no measurable impact in Browns nor in the NFL. I think of Hickerson.........bashed fingers, bloody nose, missing teeth, torn jersey and pants..........I think of him waiting how long? ANd you caulksuckers think he deserves to be in the HOF? For perfect attendance and a non physical career?

The offensive line is a CRUCIAL part of a successful team. However, Offensive Linemen are the least talented athletes on the field. They can be plugged in and out with absolutely championship level results NE and Pitt both winning a SB with walk ons, late season.  No Father sees his son drop from it's mothers twat and shouts I WANT HIM TO GROW UP TO BE AN OL.

AGAIN...............in peepee football, if your child cannot run, catch, pass, tackle, kick, or punt, he will be sent to play the OL. If your son is a flat footed fat tub o lard, and he wants to play football.....he will find a place on the offensive line. When an OL picks up a loose football., EVERYONE laughs and gets enjoyment out of it. It is fodder and it makes the goofy highlight films. Any big hulking lard-butt who has desire and discipline, can become a great OL. Those same qualities however, will NEVER turn a flat footed lard butt into a shifty RB, deep threat WR or surgical QB.

OL, individually..............are a dime-a-dozen. Just ask Dallas................. they have 5 #1 picks playing OL, and they can't win schidt.

 

 

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On 4/9/2018 at 12:04 PM, boo fagley said:

Was Cam Erving that bad?

Must have been to get a 5th for him. 

Did you ever seriously watch any tape on Erving? With apologies to Ghoolie, there's decent tub o lard O-line, and then there's players like Erving who I saw get knocked flat on his azz and run over, and in general was totally incompetent to play any of the multiple positions he was tried at. I'd rate him the #1 first round o-line bust in Browns history. I'm still amazed we even got a 5th round pick for him.    :)   

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9 hours ago, hoorta said:

Did you ever seriously watch any tape on Erving? With apologies to Ghoolie, there's decent tub o lard O-line, and then there's players like Erving who I saw get knocked flat on his azz and run over, and in general was totally incompetent to play any of the multiple positions he was tried at. I'd rate him the #1 first round o-line bust in Browns history. I'm still amazed we even got a 5th round pick for him.    :)   

Erving was bad....but not probably the worst OL picked by the Browns in the first round in their history:

John/Jack Bauer.....1954  tick tock  he almost didn't last 24 hours.  He played in only 2 NFL games

Kurt Burris....1955.   He played in exactly -0-  NFL games

Pete Adams  1973.  He played only 2 years, 25 games.   Injury may have bit him, as he was drafted in 1973....but did not play that year, the played 12 games, starting 9 in 1974....then missed all of 1975.  Came back in 1976 to start 13 games....then retired. 

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11 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Erving was bad....but not probably the worst OL picked by the Browns in the first round in their history:

John/Jack Bauer.....1954  tick tock  he almost didn't last 24 hours.  He played in only 2 NFL games

Kurt Burris....1955.   He played in exactly -0-  NFL games

Pete Adams  1973.  He played only 2 years, 25 games.   Injury may have bit him, as he was drafted in 1973....but did not play that year, the played 12 games, starting 9 in 1974....then missed all of 1975.  Came back in 1976 to start 13 games....then retired. 

Ya, Pete had injury problems. He is still good buddies with Jerry Sherk.

image.png

That is Pete, bottom left, with Robert E. Jackson, Brian Sipe and Jerry.

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Jerry still looks good...

 

I doubt we've ever had an OL fail at every possible position before Cam... let alone a first-rounder.

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16 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Boo, thanks for the lead in.

You owe me a beer.

The Steelers are the Steelers because of continuity. They dont change Head Coaches, QBs or front office types like other teams change socks.

Same for the Patriots and other dynasties. Yes they have OL step in for injured OL and they win, but they win because of continuity, coaching and a stable environment.

The Browns run offense was ranked 14th because of continuity. A 0 - 16 team with a cement shoes QB like Kizer had a better run OL than the Super Bowl champs. You need Talent and Continuity to be good. The Pats spend 1st round picks on Left Tackles. The Steelers spend 1st round picks on the OL. The Jets drafted local boy and HOF Center Nick Mangold and went to back to back AFC Championships.

What could Joe Thomas have done to change who was at QB or the HC? Nothing, like a lot of great players who suffered the same fate.

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On 4/17/2018 at 12:40 PM, boo fagley said:

You owe me a beer.

The Steelers are the Steelers because of continuity. They dont change Head Coaches, QBs or front office types like other teams change socks.

Same for the Patriots and other dynasties. Yes they have OL step in for injured OL and they win, but they win because of continuity, coaching and a stable environment.

The Browns run offense was ranked 14th because of continuity. A 0 - 16 team with a cement shoes QB like Kizer had a better run OL than the Super Bowl champs. You need Talent and Continuity to be good. The Pats spend 1st round picks on Left Tackles. The Steelers spend 1st round picks on the OL. The Jets drafted local boy and HOF Center Nick Mangold and went to back to back AFC Championships.

What could Joe Thomas have done to change who was at QB or the HC? Nothing, like a lot of great players who suffered the same fate.

Wrong.............. continuity doesn't build jack schidt. SUCCESS builds continuity. I don't give a fukuk how many years Hue Jackson and is team  remain in place, they will be the worst team in the NFL every year. 

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44 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Wrong.............. continuity doesn't build jack schidt. SUCCESS builds continuity. I don't give a fukuk how many years Hue Jackson and is team  remain in place, they will be the worst team in the NFL every year. 

You are right.  You should know.  Continuity does not build success.  Take yourself.....still just about the worst patron on these boards....yet here you are.  Your continuity is intact.   You are the Hue Jackson of The Browns Board.  Continuous poor performance...yet still around. 

(can I assume that you can take a bit of friendly jostling....apparently unlike some others?)

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4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You are right.  You should know.  Continuity does not build success.  Take yourself.....still just about the worst patron on these boards....yet here you are.  Your continuity is intact.   You are the Hue Jackson of The Browns Board.  Continuous poor performance...yet still around. 

(can I assume that you can take a bit of friendly jostling....apparently unlike some others?)

Dude, this was a HILARIOUS, snappy and well done reply. This is what blokes call giving the other guy the business. I stepped into it, LMAO. FUNNY FUNNY stuff.

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On 4/17/2018 at 12:10 AM, hoorta said:

Did you ever seriously watch any tape on Erving? With apologies to Ghoolie, there's decent tub o lard O-line, and then there's players like Erving who I saw get knocked flat on his azz and run over, and in general was totally incompetent to play any of the multiple positions he was tried at. I'd rate him the #1 first round o-line bust in Browns history. I'm still amazed we even got a 5th round pick for him.    :)   

Larry, Erving was the clumsiest bastard I ever saw. Maybe he played drunk, or had Myesthenia Gravis? YOu calling him a turnstyle was hilarious. How the hell does a guy like that even play in the NFL?

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13 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Wrong.............. continuity doesn't build jack schidt. SUCCESS builds continuity. I don't give a fukuk how many years Hue Jackson and is team  remain in place, they will be the worst team in the NFL every year. 

Talent + Continuity build success.

A revolving door at HC, QB, owner and front office does not build $hit.

The Browns are slowly building continuity. Williams is back. They need to keep Dorsey and hopefully he nails a QB who will be starting more than a few years.Maybe Dorsey will be choosing his own HC too.

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7 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Larry, Erving was the clumsiest bastard I ever saw. Maybe he played drunk, or had Myesthenia Gravis? YOu calling him a turnstyle was hilarious. How the hell does a guy like that even play in the NFL?

You guys should not talk about IHop that way. :lol:

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9 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Dude, this was a HILARIOUS, snappy and well done reply. This is what blokes call giving the other guy the business. I stepped into it, LMAO. FUNNY FUNNY stuff.

All in Fun G.

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14 hours ago, The Gipper said:

All in Fun G.

I had to show the comment to my wife, she laughed her butt off as well.  Well done.  Let's hope that for a change we don't have to put a spin on the Browns draft. It would be nice for everyone to say HOLY CRAP, did you see what the Browns did? 

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7 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

I had to show the comment to my wife, she laughed her butt off as well.  Well done.  Let's hope that for a change we don't have to put a spin on the Browns draft. It would be nice for everyone to say HOLY CRAP, did you see what the Browns did? 

You mean instead of "HOLY CRAP, did you see what the Browns did (again)?":P

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9 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

You mean instead of "HOLY CRAP, did you see what the Browns did (again)?":P

I fear this draft will be another 2017 debacle. SO many great performers came out of that draft, we got a Zumba Instructor and Crisco Fingers.

I believe Lamarkenton is coming to town.

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