Pluto on quarterbacks etc.

[Westside Steve]

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/03/cleveland_browns_trading_quart.html

[darren15]

When did Mickey Mouse's dog become a draft expert ?

[jiggins7919]

I thought it was a pretty good article from old Terry. His point about drafting Chubb to provide depth at a key position is something I have shared as well, and I don't think pressuring the opponent's QB can be overstated. We struggled mightily to get QB pressure when we had injuries to Garrett and Ogbah, and even if they somehow manage to stay healthy all year long, Chubb would still provide awesome depth so we could keep people fresh. Never mind we could rush Ogbah, Garrett, and Chubb at the same time, too. 

[Tour2ma]

Pluto consistently produces the best reads of all the Browns beat writers. This one is among them.

I still disagree that Chubb will be elite. Although I do agree he is the best 4-3 DE in the draft, the two things are not the same.

That the Stanton signing frees Tyrod to focus purely on his game and playing is an angle I had not considered. It helps me appreciate the signing more than I had.

[TexasAg1969]

One of the talking heads on Good Morning Football made the same point I made last year before Ogbah went down. He predicts that Chubb will make a great pick because he will not attract as much attention as Garrett and should end up with more sacks than anyone else. I think that just having the rotation of the 3 along with Collins back plus Peppers at SS where he belongs will make a huge different in how much pressure we put on the QB. Add in another superior CB and we're ready to do some damage. On O adding Taylor, a true rookie QB with time to learn and a RB that actually knows how not to run into a pile will give us a decent O to compliment a much improved D. We had a lot of close games last year that really were winnable. I'm not saying playoffs yet because it takes time to fine tune any team, but I am saying we win several close ones. And I think Chubb could be a key player to acquire.

[Orion]

1. If you believe the second most important part of football (after having a good quarterback) is pressuring the QB -- then an elite pass rusher such as Chubb is enticing. Most NFL executives place a high value on QB pressure, especially if it can be done without constantly blitzing.

I do believe.

[mjp28]

4 minutes ago, Orion said:

 

 

I do believe.

And having bookend DEs with some supporting TOP picks on defense......oh yeah baby.

Change field position, create turnovers, get the ball back to the offense, PICK 6s, oh yeah! A great plan for a rebuilding team.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

One of the talking heads on Good Morning Football made the same point I made last year before Ogbah went down. He predicts that Chubb will make a great pick because he will not attract as much attention as Garrett and should end up with more sacks than anyone else. I think that just having the rotation of the 3 along with Collins back plus Peppers at SS where he belongs will make a huge different in how much pressure we put on the QB. Add in another superior CB and we're ready to do some damage. On O adding Taylor, a true rookie QB with time to learn and a RB that actually knows how not to run into a pile will give us a decent O to compliment a much improved D. We had a lot of close games last year that really were winnable. I'm not saying playoffs yet because it takes time to fine tune any team, but I am saying we win several close ones. And I think Chubb could be a key player to acquire.

Chubb will be terrific in the pros. but when I look at the Browns depth chart...

the top shut down cb would be a far more dynamic addition.

rcb - 1. Minkah Fitzgerald

#2 Denzel Ward

I'd have to go with Minkah - more size.

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/CLE

[Tour2ma]

Semi-agree, which ain't bad for us, as I like CB choice, but for me it's Ward's athleticism.

Not that Minkah's is bad, but Ward's is better. I'll trade 1" in height for 6" of vertical any day.

[jcam222]

I'd be happier to take QB and Barkley in round 1 with Oliver as our CB in the 2nd round. 

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Semi-agree, which ain't bad for us, as I like CB choice, bt for me it's Ward's athleticism.

Not that Minkah's is bad, but Ward's is better. I'll trade 1" in height for 6" of vertical any day.

But if I were choosing just between those two, I go with the coach on the field from Bama. Never underestimate the value of the guy who can read offenses and call out defensive adjustments. That's what he did really well for Saban. Smart kid with a lot of talent.

[Tour2ma]

11 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I go with the coach on the field from Bama

So you are going to play Minkah at FS?

I've never heard of a CB being "a coach on the field." Have you?

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

So you are going to play Minkah at FS?

I've never heard of a CB being "a coach on the field." Have you?

No not really. I'd rather have him in a safety role IF we have the CBs. A big IF I know.

[Tour2ma]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

No not really. I'd rather have him in a safety role IF we have the CBs. A big IF I know.

And that's the problem I see... we don't have the CBs, IMO, but we may have a FS. Minkah's a great hedge, but not the best choice at either position.

[calfoxwc]

18 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

But if I were choosing just between those two, I go with the coach on the field from Bama. Never underestimate the value of the guy who can read offenses and call out defensive adjustments. That's what he did really well for Saban. Smart kid with a lot of talent.

Well.... I think Ward is outstanding - not sure about his durability in the pros, who knows? But the problem is, at least 3 of the top four free safties in the draft will be gone in the first round, I think. After those four, seems that the tier drops to a second level. But not so on cb's near as much - I'm much happier going into the second round for a starting shut down cb than I am free safety. and Minkah IS the best free safety.

[TexasAg1969]

22 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Well.... I think Ward is outstanding - not sure about his durability in the pros, who knows? But the problem is, at least 3 of the top four free safties in the draft will be gone in the first round, I think. After those four, seems that the tier drops to a second level. But not so on cb's near as much - I'm much happier going into the second round for a starting shut down cb than I am free safety. and Minkah IS the best free safety.

But if Randall comes in @ FS and Peppers switches to SS where they each belong, then maybe the best CB makes more sense if we don't take Chubb @ #4.

[boo fagley]

Good  read.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

But if Randall comes in @ FS and Peppers switches to SS where they each belong, then maybe the best CB makes more sense if we don't take Chubb @ #4.

ah. good point.

[Ghoolie]

On 3/31/2018 at 11:26 AM, jiggins7919 said:

I thought it was a pretty good article from old Terry. His point about drafting Chubb to provide depth at a key position is something I have shared as well, and I don't think pressuring the opponent's QB can be overstated. We struggled mightily to get QB pressure when we had injuries to Garrett and Ogbah, and even if they somehow manage to stay healthy all year long, Chubb would still provide awesome depth so we could keep people fresh. Never mind we could rush Ogbah, Garrett, and Chubb at the same time, too. 

Pressuring the QB without blitzing IS vitally important. THe problem is, we have Garret, which is nothing to build on. He goes after the QB on every down, and plays 2X more downs than every other DE, so of course he had a few sacks. What he ISNT, is dominating. Garrett will be lost for the season both from injury, and also not wanting to play in Cleveland. If the Browns want pass rushers, they need to get thim in the later rounds.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie said:

Pressuring the QB without blitzing IS vitally important. THe problem is, we have Garret, which is nothing to build on. He goes after the QB on every down, and plays 2X more downs than every other DE, so of course he had a few sacks. What he ISNT, is dominating. Garrett will be lost for the season both from injury, and also not wanting to play in Cleveland. If the Browns want pass rushers, they need to get thim in the later rounds.

There is a real dearth in decent pass rushers this year so it makes no sense at all to go after one in late rounds.

[Flyin J]

Randall hasnt played FS in the NFL.  Are we sure he'll be good there?

[Ghoolie]

All of these things pile on to the confusion that already has the Browns fukcked up in their draft thinking, They don't know whether to schidt of go blind.

Seriously, look for them to trade down to some extent. Pressure may have them take a QB at #1, and for the sake of avoiding ridicule in the media, it makes sense for them to take the QB. HOWEVER................... Hue Jackson is the guy in charge, and he likes black Tarkentons. He found a way to get TieRod Tarkenton from Buffalo but knows all too well that with no offensive weapons and an easy to figure out offense, Taylor will, in all likelihood be injured pretty early this upcoming season. That leaves us forced to start the new QB, if they draft one...............most likely, THAT guy will be injured as well. For sure, Hue will do to his confidence the same thing he did to Deshone Kizer.

If the Browns take a QB at #1, it will be a reluctant candidate who is going to be focused from day one at playing out his contract and then going to a real franchise. By then, there is indeed good possibility that the Browns will be moved and will no longer even be called the Browns.

DePo likes to trade down. Hue wants a Black Tarkenton. It does not take a rocket science to see that we passed on the best QB FA, took a run first Tark, and his successor will be another black tarkenton.

[Bigalow80]

8 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

All of these things pile on to the confusion that already has the Browns fukcked up in their draft thinking, They don't know whether to schidt of go blind.

Seriously, look for them to trade down to some extent. Pressure may have them take a QB at #1, and for the sake of avoiding ridicule in the media, it makes sense for them to take the QB. HOWEVER................... Hue Jackson is the guy in charge, and he likes black Tarkentons. He found a way to get TieRod Tarkenton from Buffalo but knows all too well that with no offensive weapons and an easy to figure out offense, Taylor will, in all likelihood be injured pretty early this upcoming season. That leaves us forced to start the new QB, if they draft one...............most likely, THAT guy will be injured as well. For sure, Hue will do to his confidence the same thing he did to Deshone Kizer.

If the Browns take a QB at #1, it will be a reluctant candidate who is going to be focused from day one at playing out his contract and then going to a real franchise. By then, there is indeed good possibility that the Browns will be moved and will no longer even be called the Browns.

DePo likes to trade down. Hue wants a Black Tarkenton. It does not take a rocket science to see that we passed on the best QB FA, took a run first Tark, and his successor will be another black tarkenton.

Ghoolie,

Your rants are ridiculous. The reason they signed Drew Stanton to a multi year deal is so that the rookie qb does NOT play!!! The odds of getting to the third string qb is very slim to none. even though it happened a few years ago to the Browns, that is the kind of thing that is impossible to plan and falls under the schidt happens.

No offensive weapons? come on...Gordon is considered a top 5 WR (yes, assuming he stays on the field), Landry is a top 5 slot receiver, Hyde and Duke Johnson are highly respected out of the backfield, Njoku is an up and coming TE and DeValve is a solid TE. 

The qb drafted will look to play out his contract and then leave???? Give me a break. EVEN IF that player wants to do such a thing, lets assume they perform well enough to deserve a huge pay bump considering you think if this qb leaves the franchise will fold, this means THAT qb is a GOD in Cleveland and the Browns are a playoff team. In that respect, why would that qb WANT to leave, not to mention, the Browns will have them under contract for 5 years of his contract, plus at least 2 years of Franchise Tags?

DePo HAS NO CONTROL OVER THE DRAFT OR ROSTER!! Dorsey runs the show. It is his call. DePo simply providing ALL possible quantitative information. Dorsey likes to trade up and down. OMG, he's an aggressive GM...what should the Browns do? He traded out of the first one year and then he traded up the following year. 

I'll give you Hue is clueless at times and probably screwed up Kizer. But the Browns recognized this and brought in Haley whose job is to now run the offense. Hue is on the hot seat. He knows that he is not going to be afforded to start 0-8. He is going to listen. And if that wasn't evident enough, the fact the browns had nothing to do with AJ McCarrron in FA, should be very telling that this is John Dorsey's team, not Hue Jackson. Hue Jackson will NOT have the final say of who the qb of the future is going to be for the Cleveland Browns. He'll have input, but that decision is coming from above with a man named John. 

It takes two to tango to bring in a FA. The Jets offered way more money for Cousins and he turned them down because he wanted to go to MN. Unlike the Jets, Cleveland did their research before hand, recognized this was going to happen, and then grabbed a guy who is if nothing else, a proven above average qb. A guy who has won at least 7 games each of the last 3 years as a starter not just a one year wonder such as Foles or Keenum. Not great, but not the firestorm we have seen over those same few years. And he's only 28 years old!! 

Ghoolie, I don't mind if you throw biased and racist crap on the board because that is your thing, but at least have your facts correct. The Browns clearly have a plan in mind of how they are going to build this team for the future. They recognized the weaknesses of this team (qb, wr, cb, fs, OL) and they have addressed every single one. They may not be superstar additions, but they are young and add very good depth that is only going to get better. Not to mention, the 5 draft picks in the top 64 of talent they could be adding.  If you can't see that, then you are the one who is blind. The arguments over who to draft and when are typical discussions of every team's draft board. Fans are supposed to have opinions on whom is the better qb, db, rb, etc.  That's called being an invested fan, not confused. 

[mjp28]

11 minutes ago, Bigalow80 said:

Ghoolie,

Your rants are ridiculous. The reason they signed Drew Stanton to a multi year deal is so that the rookie qb does NOT play!!! The odds of getting to the third string qb is very slim to none. even though it happened a few years ago to the Browns, that is the kind of thing that is impossible to plan and falls under the schidt happens.

No offensive weapons? come on...Gordon is considered a top 5 WR (yes, assuming he stays on the field), Landry is a top 5 slot receiver, Hyde and Duke Johnson are highly respected out of the backfield, Njoku is an up and coming TE and DeValve is a solid TE. .......

 

 

Correct sir!

The ghool is a fool who likes to swear like a 7th grader and basically just rant and throw all kinds of ridiculous stuff against the wall hoping something will stick. Did you know NFL and SB MVP Tom Brady has been washed up for years now?  

And he has this strange man crush on retired for 40 years now HOF and record setting QB Fran Tarkenton, what's with that? 

Oh well he's the village idiot during these slow days leading up to the NFL draft April 26. GO BROWNS! (prepare for the next ghool the fool rant)

[Tour2ma]

10 hours ago, Flyin J said:

Randall hasnt played FS in the NFL.  Are we sure he'll be good there?

Of course not! But what's your point?

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Correct sir!

The ghool is a fool who likes to swear like a 7th grader and basically just rant and throw all kinds of ridiculous stuff against the wall hoping something will stick. Did you know NFL and SB MVP Tom Brady has been washed up for years now?  

And he has this strange man crush on retired for 40 years now HOF and record setting QB Fran Tarkenton, what's with that? 

Oh well he's the village idiot during these slow days leading up to the NFL draft April 26. GO BROWNS! (prepare for the next ghool the fool rant)

And more ridiculous stuff like we're going to regret it if we don't draft Paxton Lynch, Mitch Trubisky is the #1 prospect in the 2017 draft, Myles Garrett is a bum, Joe Thomas will never make the HOF, not to mention (but I will anyway) he thinks Hue is still calling the shots. Plus, he's too much of a wimp to take those bets we're not drafting Lamar Jackson. Which incidentally will emphatically prove Hue isn't calling the draft shots. 

Ghoolie's pre draft BS spew has kicked into overdrive. 

PS Bigalow,  Ghoolie don't care about no stinkin' facts, and he doesn't bother to keep up with the news either- I had to point out to him we signed Drew Stanton to mentor our QBOTF. 

[Flyin J]

7 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Of course not! But what's your point?

haha I guess my point is that if were gonna spend 4 on a DB, why not get a giy that could excel at both just in case.  I think snagging Fitzpatrick would be great for the locker room and give us flexibility in case Randall doesnt work out.