From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen

[calfoxwc]

yet before rosen got there, they were ranked as the #7th team in the nation.

nah.

[SD_Tom]

8 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Surely you jest. A common opponent vs the Wyoming talent compared to the common opponent vs the UCLA talent that was rated 7th in the nation the year before?

Come on, man. If you put rosen with Wyoming, he'd suck. He wouldn't have all that talent, and he'd be playing Oregon and Iowa, fer cryin out loud. He would have gotten a few more concussions, as muc has he doesn't move around much and if fragile.

EIDT- They were #13 when the season started. You're getting the #7 from the 2015 season peak ranking. He beat Hawaii in 2017 they were not in the top 25 in the preseason poll.... And if you can show me any 2017 preseason poll that had them in the top 25 then be my guest. They were 4-8 the year before,  that doesn't get you a top ten ranking. 

I still know that Allen's top 10 games will not look nearly as good as Rosens top 10,  no matter how much you wish it otherwise. 

Feel free to post their game stats side by side.  It's not close no matter how large and red you make the font 

 

 

 

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

yet before rosen got there, they were ranked as the #7th team in the nation.

nah.

Five years ago?

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

9/2	@Iowa	L 24-3	23	40	174	57.5	23	0	2	84.0	8	-10	-1.3	11	0	24.9	45.6
9/9	Gardner-Webb	W 27-0	22	32	328	68.8	47	2	0	175.5	0	0	0.0	0	0	96.7	91.1
9/16	Oregon	L 49-13	9	24	64	37.5	21	0	1	51.6	8	25	3.1	10	1	11.5	15.2
9/23	Hawai'i	W 28-21 (OT)	9	19	92	47.4	25	1	0	105.4	6	17	2.8	22	0	63.8	34.6
9/30	Texas State	W 45-10	14	24	219	58.3	40	3	0	176.2	8	12	1.5	9	0	82.4	66.5
10/14	@Utah State	W 28-23	18	26	208	69.2	28	1	1	141.4	16	36	2.3	16	1	54.1	61.5
10/21	@Boise State	L 24-14	12	27	131	44.4	30	1	2	82.6	18	62	3.4	19	1	48.3	58.5
10/28	New Mexico	W 42-3	16	28	234	57.1	38	4	0	174.5	4	20	5.0	11	1	66.0	46.8
11/4	Colorado State	W 16-13	10	20	138	50.0	21	0	0	108.0	12	60	5.0	18	0	33.4	25.9
11/11	@Air Force	W 28-14	8	11	70	72.7	17	1	0	156.2	4	-15	-3.8	2	1	71.5	53.

Rosen game by game stats, 2017:

2017 GAME LOG			PASSING								RUSHING					QBR
DATE	OPP	RESULT	CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	LNG	TD	INT	RAT	ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	RAW QBR	ADJ QBR
9/3	Texas A&M	W 45-44	35	59	491	59.3	54	4	0	151.6	5	-14	-2.8	7	0	58.8	67.4
9/9	Hawai'i	W 56-23	22	25	329	88.0	34	5	0	264.5	2	-17	-8.5	0	0	98.1	93.8
9/16	@Memphis	L 48-45	34	56	463	60.7	65	4	2	146.6	7	32	4.6	14	1	68.9	66.1
9/23	@Stanford	L 58-34	40	60	480	66.7	48	3	2	143.7	3	15	5.0	13	0	65.7	74.2
9/30	Colorado	W 27-23	28	45	372	62.2	46	1	1	134.6	5	7	1.4	4	0	71.4	64.5
10/14	@Arizona	L 47-30	20	34	219	58.8	32	0	3	95.3	6	-35	-5.8	0	0	20.1	18.6
10/21	Oregon	W 31-14	21	36	266	58.3	49	2	0	138.7	2	-11	-5.5	0	0	63.7	70.8
10/28	@Washington	L 44-23	12	21	93	57.1	16	1	0	110.1	6	-19	-3.2	6	0	23.0	37.1
11/3	@Utah	L 48-17	No statistics available.
11/11	Arizona State	W 44-37	25	45	381	55.6	59	1	1	129.6	4	13	3.3	6	1	59.8	62.4
11/18	@USC	L 28-23	32	52	421	61.5	43	3	1	144.7	5	-34	-6.8	1	0	58.7	78.3
11/24	California	W 30-27	13	18	202	72.2	33	2	0	203.2	5	-34	-6.8	4	0	77.0	73.4

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

#50! Really? That's a thing?

lol...

Holy shitballs, I've officially seen everything now. 

[The Gipper]

Rosen:  lowest completion pct. in any game was 55.6%

Allen had 4 games at 50% or less.  4 out of 10:   40% of games.

Rosen:   6 games above 60%.    Allen had 3. 

Based on the games posted by each above....Rosen was 26-10  TD/Int. Ration.    Allen was 13/6.  

Does anyone want to argue that the Pac 10 defenses are not a lot tougher than the Mountain West defenses?

[Mark O]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Here's a fun fact...

In 2018 Allen had the 8th highest completion percentage of the QBs in the ten team Mountain West Conference.... and there was a sizeable gap to the #7 ranked QB.

Pass Completion Percentage

1.	Kent Myers* • Utah State	62.9
2.	Brett Rypien* • Boise State	62.6
3.	Marcus McMaryion* • Fresno State	62.1
4.	Nick Stevens* • Colorado State	61.9
5.	Dru Brown • Hawaii	61.7
6.	Ty Gangi • Nevada	61.0
7.	Christian Chapman* • San Diego State	59.8
8.	Josh Allen* • Wyoming	56.3
9.	Montel Aaron • San Jose State	56.0
10.	Jordan Love* • Utah State	54.9

I think we should draft Christian Chapman at #4 and Rasaad Penny at #1 and have an all SDSU backfield.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Rosen:  lowest completion pct. in any game was 55.6%

Allen had 4 games at 50% or less.  4 out of 10:   40% of games.

Rosen:   6 games above 60%.    Allen had 3. 

Based on the games posted by each above....Rosen was 26-10  TD/Int. Ration.    Allen was 13/6.  

Does anyone want to argue that the Pac 10 defenses are not a lot tougher than the Mountain West defenses?

missing the point. UCLA was ranked #7 in the nation the year before rosen got there. OF course rosen had a fast track to wins

and better stats.

Wyoming was not ranked anywhere - they were

2014 record 4–8 (2–6 MW) the year before Wyoming got there.

So,  rosen walked into a 7th in the country team, and Allen walked into a losing team that

only went to bowl games in recent years, after Josh Allen was the full time starter.

He led them to the Poinsetta bowl, they lost a close one, 24-21, to BYU.

He led them to the Potato Bowl, and they won, 37-14.

So, rosen didn't raise the level of play of UCLA.

Allen carried the Wyoming football team on his back and raised the level of play dramatically.

Those facts are more fun. I'm done.

[Tour2ma]

I heard the year before Allen arrived at Wyoming they were ranked 43rd!

 

I will say this... if we draft Allen and do not sign up cal to be Allen's personal, Sports Psychiatrist we will have fukced up biggly...

We can call them the Bag'o'Rocks Brothers...

 

5 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

yet before rosen got there, they were ranked as the #7th team in the nation.

That would be their 2014 squad.... and back in 1988 they were ranked #1. As my Grandmother used to say, "What does that have to do with the price of eggs?"

UCLA's 2014 squad peaked at #7 in season. Its 2015 squad, Rosen's Frosh year, was ranked #13 preseason and rose to #7 after it won it's 1st four including wins over #19 BYU and #16 Stanford. In all they beat four, top-20 teams during the season and lost to one.

"Facts are stubborn things." - John Adams

Classic cal... anything he stumbles across on the internet that appears at first glance to even remotely support his position he posts without any additional thought. By the time a thoughtful person deconstructs his little misdirection he's already posted a couple more stumblings.

 

Here' comes the part where he comes back and says he was confused by something or other... like he saw that Hundley was drafted in 2015 so that must mean Rosen's first year was 2016 or some such thing... only proving the point that he has no regard for accuracy.

[calfoxwc]

nah.

his first year, like I already said, was 2015.2014 is important, because so many of them were underclassmen - and rosen inherited a great setup. A previously ranked #7 in the nation, with a bunch of seniors and juniors playing with him for his last year.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3886377/josh-rosen

this is where you get mad, bro, and start talking about how so and so agrees with you, so so and so is

the mostest experte' expert on the planet.  Not buyin the gravel you are sellin.

[SD_Tom]

Side by side, with a few common opponents this season. 

 

 

[jbluhm86]

10 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

so, here's another fun fact:

Wyoming played Iowa. They lost. Iowa had the 5th best offensive line in college football.

---> It wasn't Josh Allen's fault they lost. <---

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-top-50-offensive-lines-2017

http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=400935233

Josh Allen: 23-40, 174 YDS, 0 TD, 2 INT

Was Iowa's O-line playing Defense as well?

 

10 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Here's another fun fact:

They also played Oregon. Oregon was number 16. Again, not Josh Allen's fault they lost.

Wyoming was ranked #50. ---> I reckon Allen raised the level of play around him, bigtime. Like great players do? <---

http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=400935273

Josh Allen: 9-24, 64 YDS, 0 TD, 1 INT

 

[SD_Tom]

 I think UCLA gave up 36+ PPG this season. Look at the box scores and how many games they lost when they scored over 40. That shouldn't happen. 

Clear that one team threw it far more than the other did. So who's carrying who exactly?

 

[hoorta]

21 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

 I think UCLA gave up 36+ PPG this season. Look at the box scores and how many games they lost when they scored over 40. That shouldn't happen. 

Clear that one team threw it far more than the other did. So who's carrying who exactly?

 

I'll take UCLA out of the equation for a minute. Allen's best games from a completion% were against Gardner-Webb (Cal still hasn't told me what state that school is in) and a not so powerful Air Force. That his apples to apples % comparison to other Mountain West QBs was an eye opener. Of course, Cal says that stat doesn't matter. 

BTW, Rosen completed 88% when they beat Hawaii.

 

[Flugel]

15 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

9/2	@Iowa	L 24-3	23	40	174	57.5	23	0	2	84.0	8	-10	-1.3	11	0	24.9	45.6
9/9	Gardner-Webb	W 27-0	22	32	328	68.8	47	2	0	175.5	0	0	0.0	0	0	96.7	91.1
9/16	Oregon	L 49-13	9	24	64	37.5	21	0	1	51.6	8	25	3.1	10	1	11.5	15.2
9/23	Hawai'i	W 28-21 (OT)	9	19	92	47.4	25	1	0	105.4	6	17	2.8	22	0	63.8	34.6
9/30	Texas State	W 45-10	14	24	219	58.3	40	3	0	176.2	8	12	1.5	9	0	82.4	66.5
10/14	@Utah State	W 28-23	18	26	208	69.2	28	1	1	141.4	16	36	2.3	16	1	54.1	61.5
10/21	@Boise State	L 24-14	12	27	131	44.4	30	1	2	82.6	18	62	3.4	19	1	48.3	58.5
10/28	New Mexico	W 42-3	16	28	234	57.1	38	4	0	174.5	4	20	5.0	11	1	66.0	46.8
11/4	Colorado State	W 16-13	10	20	138	50.0	21	0	0	108.0	12	60	5.0	18	0	33.4	25.9
11/11	@Air Force	W 28-14	8	11	70	72.7	17	1	0	156.2	4	-15	-3.8	2	1	71.5	53.

Against Iowa he had 0 TD 2 INT and 57.5 comp %   Lost 24-3

Against Oregon he had 0 TD 1 INT and 37.5 comp %  Lost 49-13

Against Hawaii he had 1 TD pass and 47.4 comp %  Won 28-21 in OT

Against Boise State he had 1 TD 2 INT and 44.4 comp %  Lost 24-14

Against Colorado State he had 0 TD and 50.0 comp %  Won 16-13

Against NO defenders at the Indy Combines - he threw countless TD passes and 0 INTs. If we all put the glue down, which scenario (playing against pass rushers and DBs or air) would be more representative of joining an NFL team coming off 1-31 football?   Now, who are you really trying to convince that this guy is the answer to all our prayers - you or your readers?

[TexasAg1969]

22 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Against NO defenders at the Indy Combines - he threw countless TD passes and 0 INTs. If we all put the glue down, which scenario (playing against pass rushers and DBs or air) would be more representative of joining an NFL team coming off 1-31 football?   Now, who are you really trying to convince that this guy is the answer to all our prayers - you or your readers?

I'm going to laugh if the Broncos end up selecting him. It will be like the second coming of.................................wait for it.............................................Paxton Lynch.

[calfoxwc]

Tex, you never back anything up with any facts, not even invalidly.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2016/02/27/carson-wentz-paxton-lynch-nfl-combine/81036248/

Wentz, Cal’s Jared Goff, Lynch and Michigan State’s Connor Cook – Lynch has the least experience in a pro-style offense.

As a result, some of the footwork on his throws in on-field workouts, designed to mimic a quarterback-center exchange, wasn’t as fluid.

“Nothing is on rhythm and on time, and I’m seeing a lot of that with Paxton,” former quarterback and current NFL Network analyst Kurt Warner said on the broadcast.

He only scored an "18" on the wonderlic.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/2016-nfl-draft-wonderlic-scores-qbs-paxton-lynch/f6jqw46bhtw01bt9oyfwb2jc2

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-scouts-worried-about-paxton-lynch-low-wonderlic-2016-4

Another scout echoed this:

The overall maturity level and disposition, I'd be a bit concerned.

**********************************************************************

    So, Allen DID play a lot of pro style offense, is bigtime mature, loves the game, and is very smart, with about 30 mph more arm.

Lynch threw 56 mph at the combine.

Need facts, Tex, or your opinions don't amount to nothin, and you need legit facts, to explain why you see things the way ya do.

I may be wrong, sure, but I see things per the reading I've done.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

Need facts, Tex, or your opinions don't amount to nothin, and you need legit facts, to explain why you see things the way ya do.

Here's the only fact I needed on Lynch. The Broncos have obviously moved on by acquiring Keenum and are seriously considering taking another QB high in this draft.

You can go research it if you wish. I don't waste my time on it.

As to Allen I watched 4 of his games live this past year for the entire game. I trust my own evaluation off what I see over someone else's fact. You know kind of like over "there"

EDIT: But I will post this "speculation" by D.J.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Bolt/Daniel-Jeremiah-Browns-take-Sam-Darnold-over-Baker-Mayfield-116479445?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=180320_085700_Cleveland Browns Newsletter&utm_content=Link&liveconnect=1B-C2-1E-69-15-F3-1E-26-47-C2-FB-AF-1F-3D-14-30180320_085700ClevelandBrownsNewsletter

[The Gipper]

17 hours ago, Mark O said:

I think we should draft Christian Chapman at #4 and Rasaad Penny at #1 and have an all SDSU backfield.

Bring back Brian Sipe as a coach.

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

missing the point.

NOT missing any fuyucking point.   The point is that Rosen is far more accurate. THAT is the point.

 

UCLA was ranked #7 in the nation the year before rosen got there. OF course rosen had a fast track to wins

and better stats.

Wyoming was not ranked anywhere - they were

So...basically....there is NO point that you are trying to make.  

2014 record 4–8 (2–6 MW) the year before Wyoming got there.

So,  rosen walked into a 7th in the country team, and Allen walked into a losing team that

only went to bowl games in recent years, after Josh Allen was the full time starter.

He led them to the Poinsetta bowl, they lost a close one, 24-21, to BYU.

He led them to the Potato Bowl, and they won, 37-14.

So, rosen didn't raise the level of play of UCLA.

Allen carried the Wyoming football team on his back and raised the level of play dramatically.

Those facts are more fun. I'm done.

With those facts.....the conclusion is:    Rosen would be the far more reliable accurate NFL passer.

[The Gipper]

9 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Side by side, with a few common opponents this season. 

 

 

Rosen had 182 more attempts in the same number of games.  Why is that?  

One potential conclusion:  Wyoming didn't trust Allen throwing the ball all that much. 

Another possible conclusion:  Wyoming's schedule was so weak compared to Wyomings, that Wyo. was often ahead and did not have to throw.....where at UCLA Rosen had to pitch it all day long against better competition.

Which could also conclude that Wyoming's defense....against its competition was much better than UCLA's defense against its competition.  I think that is likely the case.  Rosen had to try to play comeback a lot because that defense was giving up like 40 pts per game.

[SD_Tom]

5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Rosen had 182 more attempts in the same number of games.  Why is that?  

One potential conclusion:  Wyoming didn't trust Allen throwing the ball all that much. 

Another possible conclusion:  Wyoming's schedule was so weak compared to Wyomings, that Wyo. was often ahead and did not have to throw.....where at UCLA Rosen had to pitch it all day long against better competition.

Which could also conclude that Wyoming's defense....against its competition was much better than UCLA's defense against its competition.  I think that is likely the case.  Rosen had to try to play comeback a lot because that defense was giving up like 40 pts per game.

Their defense was a sieve. I think it was 36 pts a game, and over 480 yds a game they allowed on average. 

My buddy is a big UCLA fan, LA native, coaches football in the area... and thinks very highly of Rosen. Of this season, he said "we can't block, can't catch, can't tackle or cover, and can't run the ball. But at least we can win some games and know when to fire a shitty coach unlike the Browns"  LOL

 

[LondonBrown]

I personally couldn’t care less about win % as there’s more to winning football games than one player 

What I do care about most, especially after Kizer, is a QB that is an accurate thrower. 

Josh Allen is not 

Baker Mayfield certainly is and if he was two inches taller would be the lock #1 pick 

[LogicIsForSquares]

47 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

I personally couldn’t care less about win % as there’s more to winning football games than one player 

What I do care about most, especially after Kizer, is a QB that is an accurate thrower. 

Josh Allen is not 

Baker Mayfield certainly is and if he was two inches taller would be the lock #1 pick 

Mayfield's supporting cast and offense made him look much better than he actually is. If he had Rosen's skill set, no one would give a hot crap about his height. 

[SD_Tom]

29 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

I personally couldn’t care less about win % as there’s more to winning football games than one player 

What I do care about most, especially after Kizer, is a QB that is an accurate thrower. 

Josh Allen is not 

Baker Mayfield certainly is and if he was two inches taller would be the lock #1 pick 

Many would argue that Rosen is more accurate, as Mayfield threw to more wide open receivers in games than Rosen did, but even if they're roughly the same, I'd rather have a guy who's 6'4 than 6'0. Especially when one has played under center quite a bit and the other never did. 

At this level, they're all "gamers" They all wanna win, they are the best in their respective divisions.... Accuracy and reading defenses will help more than "loving the game"

 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

I personally couldn’t care less about win % as there’s more to winning football games than one player 

What I do care about most, especially after Kizer, is a QB that is an accurate thrower. 

Josh Allen is not 

Baker Mayfield certainly is and if he was two inches taller would be the lock #1 pick 

^^^^ True.   

1 hour ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Mayfield's supporting cast and offense made him look much better than he actually is. If he had Rosen's skill set, no one would give a hot crap about his height. 

Nope, it's 95% about Mayfield's height. Some are trying to make mountains out of molehills about his one off field indiscretion, and some of his on field antics. Better supporting cast for Baker? Sure, but at least when his guy was wide open, he can\could hit them in stride, not like a certain Wyoming quarterback under similar conditions throwing the ball 10 feet over their heads or 10 yards past them. From the tape I've watched, Baker made plenty of NFL level thread the needle throws into tight coverage. To say he can't make them is ridiculous.  

The only knock I've heard about Mayfield is he tends to lock onto his primary target too often. That can be said for just about any college qb. Allen does the same, except he's nowhere near as accurate. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

10 minutes ago, hoorta said:

^^^^ True.   

Nope, it's 95% about Mayfield's height. Some are trying to make mountains out of molehills about his one off field indiscretion, and some of his on field antics. Better supporting cast for Baker? Sure, but at least when his guy was wide open, he can\could hit them in stride, not like a certain Wyoming quarterback under similar conditions throwing the ball 10 feet over their heads or 10 yards past them. From the tape I've watched, Baker made plenty of NFL level thread the needle throws into tight coverage. To say he can't make them is ridiculous.  

The only knock I've heard about Mayfield is he tends to lock onto his primary target too often. That can be said for just about any college qb. Allen does the same, except he's nowhere near as accurate. 

If you are comparing Allen to Mayfield then I will say sure he is better than Allen. Just like getting punched in the gut is preferable to having someone hit me in the sack with a nine iron. I would prefer neither.

Mayfield has inflated numbers from the nature of his offense. In the pros, Mayfield’s first read won’t be there and he won’t be able to scramble out of the pocket while he finds everyone else. That isn’t to say he won’t ever figure it out. But the Browns aren’t who I would call a team that can develop a QB.

[Tour2ma]

9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Tex, you never back anything up with any facts, not even invalidly.

And there it is... cal's debate standard.

[tiamat63]

Invalid facts....?  Did i just read that?

[Tour2ma]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

The only knock I've heard about Mayfield is he tends to lock onto his primary target too often.

Again... that's the OU offense... it's a single option pass offense. If it's not there, they ask the QB to move and the WRs to react to that movement. Baker became pretty astute at picking up an open WR once he broke contain. Did a lot more of this in this last season vs. the previous ones.