From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen

[Unsympathetic]

Josh Allen reminds me of Spergon Wynn.  In the best way!

[TexasAg1969]

6 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Josh Allen reminds me of Spergon Wynn.  In the best way!

Are they both vaginal contraceptives?

[LogicIsForSquares]

20 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

and, to the point about in hs, etc - also -

in the article I posted, he went to a little hs, and didn't concentrate on just one sport like some do, and never went to these football camps again and again, because they played multiple sports at the time, and he worked on their farm a lot.

Rosen bum went to them - he was rich and entitled - it shows in how much a punk he is.  Rosen is working hard to show he isn't, but anybody CAN see, a lot WON'T, that it isn't all that convincing if you look close. You want the little rich boy tennis prodigy turned football quarterback, ok. I'm fine with it. But if I'm pickin, he isn't even on my list. No heart. No leadership. etc etc.

I don’t care about Rosen because he isn’t part of the conversation about Allen. Lots of kids played multiple sports and found a way to look head and shoulders above their high school peers if they have the talent. I went to a small school and we had a QB who completed more than 60% of his passes our senior year when we went 3-7.

It seems you are jumping over a lot of mental hurdles to justify Allen being a good NFL QB when he has never been accurate or above average the entire time he has been a QB at all levels. 

[Unsympathetic]

Of course he is -- this entire thread and argument is determining the conclusion  [Allen = good] and working backwards to fit the (lack of) evidence into a semblance of a rationale.. and then repeating that reasoning enough to convince stupid people.  You know, like a cult.

[TexasAg1969]

10 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Of course he is -- this entire thread and argument is determining the conclusion  [Allen = good] and working backwards to fit the (lack of) evidence into a semblance of a rationale.. and then repeating that reasoning enough to convince stupid people.  You know, like a cult.

Make Allen Great Assholes

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I don’t care about Rosen because he isn’t part of the conversation about Allen. Lots of kids played multiple sports and found a way to look head and shoulders above their high school peers if they have the talent. I went to a small school and we had a QB who completed more than 60% of his passes our senior year when we went 3-7.

It seems you are jumping over a lot of mental hurdles to justify Allen being a good NFL QB when he has never been accurate or above average the entire time he has been a QB at all levels. 

not at all. I simply question a smaller school that doesn't have the talent to be good IN THEIR CONFERENCE. Sorry, but I showed you all the seniors that are prospects to be drafted that rosen played with. Allen's top two wr's were a soph and a jr.Que. is a very good center. Miller is going to be very good - but he needs to be stronger for the NFL. Allen didn't have talent like that. And Wyoming played IOWA - and only ? lost 24-3 they played OREGON, and got stomped 49-13.

they beat Air Force and Hawaii...

Seems to me you and others are refusing to get the point by any means necessary - that it was Allen that went there, and put his team on his shoulders, and led them to the Potato Bowl, where he SHINED. Had he played the whole senior bowl,he would have dominated.

   "never been above average?" he has a great arm. That is above average. He has the heart to fight no matter what the odds.That is way above average. For a big guy, he a far more athletic than average.Experts buzzed about his accuracy at the combine. Has he had his pro day yet?

I don't let the media pick my choice. I pick my own choice, with reasons to back it up. IOW's, if there is a solid explanation for his lack of accuracy -- that doesn't mean he won't be a great NFL qb.

Footwork, lack of talent around him, he needs to work on his footwork. Experts and the media noted he already improved significantly by the COMBINE. Darnold apparently hadn't improved - he wouldn't show it at the combine, so I wonder about that.

  And the derek anderson and weedon thing? that is LOL because they were very much athletic dorks in the NFL. Allen will be able to be very athletic even at the higher level.

  The accuracy thing is easy to ignore when accuracy hawkers don't try to look at the reasons WHY those numbers are low, and why those reasons don't matter. Just my opinion.

Wyoming is not a big school that should be playing schools like IOWA and OREGON.

Before you diss that point, look at the teams Wentz went up against in 2015 -

http://gobison.com/mobile/schedule.aspx?schedule=52

Here's another list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_North_Dakota_State_Bison_football_team

Now, look at the competition Wentz faced, and see if Iowa and Oregon are on it.Then come back and tell me that doesn't matter that overall, Allen's accuracy % islow, but he faced far bigger competition than his team talent was able to compete against a few times.

Add in the footwork he needs to work on... and I see a kid who will be a star in the NFL, just not as ready to roll as Wentz was.

I looked at all this stuff before I decided on Allen being my pick as the better choice talent wise. It's a team game.

EDIT: and if the Browns don't pick a qb high, but rather wait til the second round? We'll all LOL at how wrong we were. But I don't see that happening.

[LogicIsForSquares]

29 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

not at all. I simply question a smaller school that doesn't have the talent to be good IN THEIR CONFERENCE. Sorry, but I showed you all the seniors that are prospects to be drafted that rosen played with. Allen's top two wr's were a soph and a jr.Que. is a very good center. Miller is going to be very good - but he needs to be stronger for the NFL. Allen didn't have talent like that. And Wyoming played IOWA - and only ? lost 24-3 they played OREGON, and got stomped 49-13.

they beat Air Force and Hawaii...

Seems to me you and others are refusing to get the point by any means necessary - that it was Allen that went there, and put his team on his shoulders, and led them to the Potato Bowl, where he SHINED. Had he played the whole senior bowl,he would have dominated.

   "never been above average?" he has a great arm. That is above average. He has the heart to fight no matter what the odds.That is way above average. For a big guy, he a far more athletic than average.Experts buzzed about his accuracy at the combine. Has he had his pro day yet?

I don't let the media pick my choice. I pick my own choice, with reasons to back it up. IOW's, if there is a solid explanation for his lack of accuracy -- that doesn't mean he won't be a great NFL qb.

Footwork, lack of talent around him, he needs to work on his footwork. Experts and the media noted he already improved significantly by the COMBINE. Darnold apparently hadn't improved - he wouldn't show it at the combine, so I wonder about that.

  And the derek anderson and weedon thing? that is LOL because they were very much athletic dorks in the NFL. Allen will be able to be very athletic even at the higher level.

  The accuracy thing is easy to ignore when accuracy hawkers don't try to look at the reasons WHY those numbers are low, and why those reasons don't matter. Just my opinion.

Wyoming is not a big school that should be playing schools like IOWA and OREGON.

Before you diss that point, look at the teams Wentz went up against in 2015 -

http://gobison.com/mobile/schedule.aspx?schedule=52

Here's another list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_North_Dakota_State_Bison_football_team

Now, look at the competition Wentz faced, and see if Iowa and Oregon are on it.Then come back and tell me that doesn't matter that overall, Allen's accuracy % islow, but he faced far bigger competition than his team talent was able to compete against a few times.

Add in the footwork he needs to work on... and I see a kid who will be a star in the NFL, just not as ready to roll as Wentz was.

I looked at all this stuff before I decided on Allen being my pick as the better choice talent wise. It's a team game.

EDIT: and if the Browns don't pick a qb high, but rather wait til the second round? We'll all LOL at how wrong we were. But I don't see that happening.

He wasn’t even good in high school against guys who likely weren’t even going to play D3 football. If you look at any decent college QB when they were in high school, you can see the difference in ability compared to their peers. He had bad accuracy then and that was against total nobodies. It is ultimately what kept him from getting an offer from any school. He continued to have bad accuracy against nobodies in a weak conference in college.

I also don’t get the hang up on leadership. He has not been a winner at any level. He was above .500 in college is the best that can be said about it. 

Nothing about that tells me he will miraculously turn it around when the competition is far superior in the pros. 

This isn’t some smear to push Rosen (I have serious medical concerns). I just don’t see what anyone sees in a kid that has never completed more than 56% of his passes at any level. Getting the ball from point A to point B is the job of a QB.

[calfoxwc]

I get that. But you are missing out on an important point. Your generalization doesn't work.

His high school was not a big hs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Allen_(quarterback)

In a 2017 story on Allen, ESPN journalist Mark Schlabach speculated on why Allen got so little interest out of high school:^[1]

At the time, Josh was about 6-foot-3 and 180 pounds. He hadn't attended the elite quarterback camps and wasn't a widely known prospect. His high school team didn't participate in many 7-on-7 camps because Josh and many of his teammates were busy playing baseball and other sports. He was the leading scorer on his basketball team and also pitched on the baseball team, reaching 90 mph with his fastball.

Yahoo! Sports writer Jeff Eisenberg added in another 2017 story,^[2]

At a time when many scholarship-hungry families encourage their kids to specialize in one sport or to transfer to the school that will provide the most exposure, the Allens resisted both trends. They spurned overtures from more prominent Central Valley programs after Allen’s breakout junior season and kept him at Firebaugh, living by the family mantra that “you bloom where you’re planted.”

Not only was Allen involved in multiple sports while in high school, he also regularly worked on the family farm and at the restaurant his mother operated in Firebaugh.^[2]

************************************************************

   I am telling you, that all relevant facts matter. He didn't go to a big hs, didn't go to the specialized football camps, didn't only play one sport, and he also worked regularly on the family farm and the restaurant his Parents operated. He didn't have that fancy "expert" coaching all the time.

So he isn't as polished - I get it. But to ASSume that he won't make it in the NFL is just nonsense. That's all.

Let's just wait and see how it all works out, shall we? The points I make matter to me, I have no idea why they don't matter to everybody else, and that's the way it is.

   Some of us caught hell over advocating for Wentz, too, and he had the high completion percentages, albeit, competition far lower than Wyoming did.

  It's more complicated that "der, accuracy numnber - allen sucks" bs.

[7moses7]

interesting stats for people who say if you can't complete passes in college then you can't complete passes in the NFL

                                                            ATT     COMP      COMP %     YDS       TD     INT       RATE

Tyrod Taylor    VT                             865       495         57.2            7017       44      20        137.5

Tyrod Taylor    NFL                           1271     793         62.4            9056       51      18         91.2

    

Josh Allen  Wyoming                         649      365         56.2             5066      44      21        137.7   

[tiamat63]

11 minutes ago, 7moses7 said:

interesting stats for people who say if you can't complete passes in college then you can't complete passes in the NFL

                                                            ATT     COMP      COMP %     YDS       TD     INT       RATE

Tyrod Taylor    VT                             865       495         57.2            7017       44      20        137.5

Tyrod Taylor    NFL                           1271     793         62.4            9056       51      18         91.2

    

Josh Allen  Wyoming                         649      365         56.2             5066      44      21        137.7   

 

For some reason I don't understand where the "Can't" comes from.   You can improve, but what you focus on is what is probable.   That type of improvement is simply NOT probable. 

 

That having been said, if you're pimping Josh Allen as the #1 overall pick - you really don't want to be using a player like Tyrod and his numbers.   

[The Gipper]

On 3/17/2018 at 6:17 PM, hoorta said:

The baseline FOR QBS is 20 CaL. CHILL OUT.  A few guys have scored below 10. they can't spell cat if you spot them the c and t, and don't know what month is between August and October. 

 

The line you said here was said about Terry Bradshaw....and I guess he did OK.

[Mark O]

11 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Kolton Miller measures great, but plays below average. Too much project there for my taste to be a value pick.

Of the UCLA OL I unexpectedly grew to like Quissenberry, their Center.

I don't know anything about Quissenberry as a player for UCLA but I did hear a couple of preseason interviews with him and he's a great interview.    Seemed like a really solid guy.  Hopefully he's as good a player.

[The Gipper]

11 minutes ago, Mark O said:

I don't know anything about Quissenberry as a player for UCLA but I did hear a couple of preseason interviews with him and he's a great interview.    Seemed like a really solid guy.  Hopefully he's as good a player.

Does he have a weird way of hiking the ball......you know, like his namesake did throwing the ball.

 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

The line you said here was said about Terry Bradshaw....and I guess he did OK.

I know Gip- it's one of the all-time favorite lines. But just because Bradshaw was the exception to the rule doesn't mean anyone  should draft QBs with the IQ of a turnip..     

[The Gipper]

12 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I know Gip- it's one of the all-time favorite lines. But just because Bradshaw was the exception to the rule doesn't mean anyone  should draft QBs with the IQ of a turnip..     

Why on earth would you make such disparaging remarks about good ole Terry?

[Tour2ma]

Here's a fun fact...

In 2018 Allen had the 8th highest completion percentage of the QBs in the ten team Mountain West Conference.... and there was a sizeable gap to the #7 ranked QB.

Pass Completion Percentage

1.	Kent Myers* • Utah State	62.9
2.	Brett Rypien* • Boise State	62.6
3.	Marcus McMaryion* • Fresno State	62.1
4.	Nick Stevens* • Colorado State	61.9
5.	Dru Brown • Hawaii	61.7
6.	Ty Gangi • Nevada	61.0
7.	Christian Chapman* • San Diego State	59.8
8.	Josh Allen* • Wyoming	56.3
9.	Montel Aaron • San Jose State	56.0
10.	Jordan Love* • Utah State	54.9

[calfoxwc]

so, here's another fun fact:

Wyoming played Iowa. They lost. Iowa had the 5th best offensive line in college football.

It wasn't Josh Allen's fault they lost.

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-top-50-offensive-lines-2017

Here's another fun fact:

They also played Oregon. Oregon was number 16. Again, not Josh Allen's fault they lost.

Wyoming was ranked #50. I reckon Allen raised the level of play around him, bigtime. Like great players do?

[Tour2ma]

#50! Really? That's a thing?

lol...

[calfoxwc]

7 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

#50! Really? That's a thing?

lol...

I posted it, read it at your own risk. I didn't rank em.

[calfoxwc]

9/2	@Iowa	L 24-3	23	40	174	57.5	23	0	2	84.0	8	-10	-1.3	11	0	24.9	45.6
9/9	Gardner-Webb	W 27-0	22	32	328	68.8	47	2	0	175.5	0	0	0.0	0	0	96.7	91.1
9/16	Oregon	L 49-13	9	24	64	37.5	21	0	1	51.6	8	25	3.1	10	1	11.5	15.2
9/23	Hawai'i	W 28-21 (OT)	9	19	92	47.4	25	1	0	105.4	6	17	2.8	22	0	63.8	34.6
9/30	Texas State	W 45-10	14	24	219	58.3	40	3	0	176.2	8	12	1.5	9	0	82.4	66.5
10/14	@Utah State	W 28-23	18	26	208	69.2	28	1	1	141.4	16	36	2.3	16	1	54.1	61.5
10/21	@Boise State	L 24-14	12	27	131	44.4	30	1	2	82.6	18	62	3.4	19	1	48.3	58.5
10/28	New Mexico	W 42-3	16	28	234	57.1	38	4	0	174.5	4	20	5.0	11	1	66.0	46.8
11/4	Colorado State	W 16-13	10	20	138	50.0	21	0	0	108.0	12	60	5.0	18	0	33.4	25.9
11/11	@Air Force	W 28-14	8	11	70	72.7	17	1	0	156.2	4	-15	-3.8	2	1	71.5	53.

[calfoxwc]

SO, there is 2017. Allen was only 57.5 percent vs IOWA. IOWA is a far, far bigger better team than

Wyoming.68.8 vs little Gardner-Webb.

37.5 percent OUCH against bigtime power OREGON. (9 of 24? not good.)

Against Utah State - though, after tough games, he was 69.2 percent accuracy. A division win for Wyoming.

Boise State - only 44.4 percent. Boise State was 7-1 in their same division.

Look at the results. Then note that Allen was 72.7 percent accuracy vs Air Force.

72.7 percent ?  Yep. JOSH ALLEN's highest completion percentage was 72.7 percent. Didn't have to throw a lot, sure.

Josh ROSEN only beat that percentage ONE TIME - vs little Hawaii - same opponent Wyoming played.

That's another fun fact ! LOL

[Ghoolie]

On 3/15/2018 at 9:13 PM, calfoxwc said:

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2017/4/14/15299904/josh-allen-and-modern-qb-development-wyoming-cowboys-nfl-draft

It’s only a three-man rush but a nice throw and indicative of Allen’s vision and accuracy.

The next Wyoming drive was an absolute masterpiece of quarterbacking. Allen demonstrated a number of elite skills in the face of BYU’s high caliber pass rush and beat the Cougars in about every way you might wish for from your starting quarterback.

On this play BYU brought a Narduzzi-style zone blitz with three deep defenders, two “hot” route rats underneath, and six pass-rushers:

 

 

The flare motion by the RB is ideal for threatening that field corner and Allen reads his response quickly before firing a perfect ball to Tanner Gentry in between the deep safety and the conflicted cornerback. He knows pressure is coming (though he has time) but he knows exactly what to look for and easily puts the ball on target.

Shortly after that success, Allen found himself facing third and 20 thanks to sack and he then demonstrated the kind of pocket presence, power, and arm strength that really draws in NFL scouts:

He treats oncoming Corbin Kaufusi, a 6’9” 285 pound monster, as a mere annoyance while firing a perfect strike to the sticks from an off-balance position. He finished the drive with this little number on a third and four:

 

That kind of improvisation is very difficult for college or pro defenses to handle but it’s made especially lethal by Allen’s running ability and the ease with which he can throw accurate balls down the field while on the move.

The game eventually ended when he took a misguided attempt to throw across his body into BYU’s cover 2 and was picked but there was a lot in this game that portends a very bright future for Allen both at Wyoming and at the next level.

 

Don't like Lefties

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

SO, there is 2017. Allen was only 57.5 percent vs IOWA. IOWA is a far, far bigger better team than

Wyoming.68.8 vs little Gardner-Webb.

37.5 percent OUCH against bigtime power OREGON. (9 of 24? not good.)

Against Utah State - though, after tough games, he was 69.2 percent accuracy. A division win for Wyoming.

Boise State - only 44.4 percent. Boise State was 7-1 in their same division.

Look at the results. Then note that Allen was 72.7 percent accuracy vs Air Force.

72.7 percent ?  Yep. JOSH ALLEN's highest completion percentage was 72.7 percent. Didn't have to throw a lot, sure.

Josh ROSEN only beat that percentage ONE TIME - vs little Hawaii - same opponent Wyoming played.

That's another fun fact ! LOL

How many 37.5%,  44.5%  47%  percent games did Rosen have?

[Ghoolie]

On 3/15/2018 at 9:29 PM, calfoxwc said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000917395/article/josh-allen-why-drafts-most-intriguing-qb-prospect-might-also-be-the-best

• By Jeffri Chadiha
• NFL.com Columnist
• Published: Feb. 23, 2018 at 04:58 p.m.

Updated: Feb. 26, 2018 at 12:55 p.m.

EDITOR'S NOTE: This past fall, NFL.com went Back 2 Campus to tell the incredible stories of some of college football's brightest stars, profiling the players before they become household names. This is the 15th in a daily series leading up the scouting combine, where these players will gather and compete for their standing in the 2018 NFL Draft.

After all the praying, all the worrying and the constant dread of what might happen next in a whirlwind year, LaVonne Allen walked into the bedroom of her second-oldest child just over a year ago and waited for some reassuring news. It was there that she found her son, Josh, sitting in the dark, calmly reconsidering the most important decision of his life. Only two nights earlier, the Wyoming quarterback had told his family he was leaving school early to enter the NFL draft. He had delivered the news while surrounded by loved ones inside a Mexican restaurant near his hometown of Firebaugh, Calif., giddily dreaming about a bright future while his mother instinctively hid her concern.

Josh and his parents already had watched the College Football Playoff National Championship with high-profile agent Tom Condon sitting in their living room, a move that suggested how close Josh was to finding representation, as well as how high his stock had soared. Allen also had packed his bags for a trip to San Diego, where he would train with other draft prospects, including North Carolina's Mitch Trubisky and Iowa's C.J. Beathard, before attending the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. The more LaVonne watched all this unfold, the more she felt a haunting sensation gnawing at her soul. She kept telling herself this was all happening way too fast -- Josh had only spent one full year as the Cowboys' starter -- and she questioned if her son might pay a hefty price in the end.

That all changed the moment LaVonne ducked her head into that darkened room.

She knew that Josh, always regarded for his confidence and coolness, couldn't bring himself to break the news to Wyoming offensive coordinator Brent Vigen when the two had talked on the phone. There also was the fact that LaVonne and her husband, Joel, had raised Josh to be a man of his word and to reward loyalty. Wyoming had been the only FBS school to offer him a full scholarship. You'd better believe that meant plenty in their minds, as well.

When Josh turned to face his mother, she sensed all these factors were weighing on what would ultimately be her son's change of heart. She asked if he was OK with staying in school, and Josh nodded before saying, "I can't do this without you and dad. We're in this together." That's when something happened that, to this day, LaVonne knows was the most important sign in that entire process. For all the alleviation she experienced, she saw even more coming from a 20-year-old who was being touted as an elite quarterback prospect -- a potential first-round draft pick -- despite his lack of experience.

"When Josh said he was staying in school, you could feel the relief coming off him," LaVonne said. "At that point, you could see he was a kid again."

The upcoming draft, by most people's measure, will be defined by quarterbacks. There's the last two Heisman Trophy winners (Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield and Louisville's Lamar Jackson), a pair of dart-throwers from Los Angeles (UCLA's Josh Rosen and USC's Sam Darnold), and an assortment of All-America types (Oklahoma Stateâs Mason Rudolph, Washington State's Luke Falk and Western Kentucky's Mike White). Even with all that star power, Allen might be the most intriguing NFL prospect of the bunch. He was the late bloomer who came from nowhere, the one who led a program that has rarely risen to national prominence and living a dream that could end with him being some team's franchise quarterback.

It would've been easy for Allen, who turns 22 in May, to enter last year's draft because the buzz was building so quickly. Instead, he chose the more mature route, one he hopes pays even bigger dividends in a few months.

It's not difficult to see what scouts like about him. At 6-foot-5 and 237 pounds, he has a cannon for a right arm, impressive mobility and an attractive blend of intelligence, resilience and guts. Add in the fact he's been forced to fight for every last bit of respect he's received and there's a chip-on-the-shoulder dimension that will help him at the next level, as well. If you think that doesn't matter, just consider what being overlooked did for Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers.

In 2016, Allen threw for 3,203 yards with 28 touchdown passes and 15 interceptions. He also led Wyoming, a team that was picked to finish last in the Mountain West's Mountain Division, to an 8-6 record, a spot in the conference championship game and a berth in the school's first bowl game in five years. Last season, he led the Cowboys to an 8-5 record and a win over Central Michigan in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl. However, his numbers were down.; he threw for 1,812 yards with 16 touchdown passes and six interceptions.

"I watched him when he was considering coming out," one NFL personnel director said before Wyoming kicked off its season vs. Iowa. "He's a talented passer with an elite arm, good size, toughness and competitiveness. But he also showed poor ball security, inconsistent mechanics and he needed to improve his accuracy. I didn't think he was ready."

Allen wanted to enjoy another successful season, but he also returned to school because of his faith in the preparation he would receive. After all, Wyoming head coach Craig Bohl once discovered a raw, overlooked quarterback named Carson Wentz while at North Dakota State. Wentz, of course, became the second overall pick of the 2016 NFL Draft. The Eagles QB already has informed Allen about the benefits of his college offense -- "He told me it really trains you to be a quarterback in the NFL," Allen said -- and the Wyoming signal-caller is smart enough to see the success Wentz has enjoyed in Philadelphia. Unlike the spread systems that proliferate college football and ease the burdens on young field generals, the Cowboys' offense asks the quarterback to handle protection calls, checks at the line of scrimmage and other adjustments.

The lack of support around him could be a big reason Allen's numbers took a hit last season. He led a younger offense that lost some productive starters, particularly running back Brian Hill (drafted by Atlanta in the fifth round last year) and wide receiver Tanner Gentry (undrafted free agent signed by Chicago).

"The best decision Josh has made in his life was to return to Wyoming," said George Whitfield, the noted quarterback guru who has trained current pros like Cam Newton and Jameis Winston -- and who worked with Allen last summer. "Understanding an offense is big because you can't run an NFL offense if you don't have ownership of your college system. ... Believe me when I say that there hasn't been a talent like this come out of college football since Cam Newton. I try to be conservative in my thoughts about Josh, but that's the truth."

The most common question Allen has answered more than any other is an obvious one: How come so many people missed on him? It's not like he didn't have talent, ambition or heart. As Joel Allen said, "From the time he was little, everything he did was impressive. I don't care if he was playing soccer or baseball or doing something with the swim team -- he was determined to be the best."

When Josh was 6 years old, he had to swim a 25-meter final in a local meet against a kid who was three times his size. Guess what? He kicked his butt. Playing on a youth football team that would win just once, he was sacked nine times in a single game. How did he respond? By getting up after every play, readjusting himself and doing his best to keep making smart decisions and tough throws.

Bill Magnusson, Allen's coach at Firebaugh High, watched Josh that day and pulled him aside afterwards. Magnusson promised the diminutive eighth-grader things would improve at the high school level, that the offensive line would be better, as would the skill players and the coaching. Magnusson saw a kid with a big heart and plenty of potential. Unfortunately for Allen, nobody outside of that town had the same kind of vision.

Allen did become a local star in Firebaugh, an agricultural community of roughly 7,500 people located 40 miles from Fresno. He was a standout quarterback, the leading scorer on the basketball team, a pitcher with a 90 mph fastball and a stellar student who served as the president of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Most athletes with that list of accomplishments can find at least one school interested in paying for their education. After throwing for 5,269 yards and 59 touchdowns in his final two years, the only thing Allen kept hearing from college recruiters was that, at 6-2 and 180 pounds, he wasn't big enough.

Even when he went to Fresno State on an informal visit prior to his senior year, the response he received was deflating.

"We needed a quarterback to replace Derek Carr at the time," said former Fresno State assistant coach David Brown II, who now works as the defensive coordinator at Texas A&M-Kingsville. "And our head coach (Tim DeRuyter) liked everything about Josh except his stature."

It also didn't help that Allen played in relative obscurity. Firebaugh is a Division 5 school in the Central Valley of California, which makes it one of the tiniest programs in the state. LaVonne and Joel did their best to create some exposure for Josh -- by arranging sessions with personal trainers and taking him to various football camps around the state -- but nothing mattered. College coaches simply couldn't see the potential in a skinny kid with a live arm and enough generosity of spirit that he often drove teammates to summer drills in 100-degree heat.

"I kept telling people that he may not have hair on his face at 18 years old," Magnusson said. "But if you have a little bit of vision, then you'll like what you'll see when he's 20."

Added Allen: "That was tough. I had to decide if I was going to try a junior college or walk on somewhere. I even thought about changing sports. But I eventually decided that football was my passion."

In time, Allen reached the point where attending a junior college made the most sense. The Fresno State coaches actually encouraged him to go that route to improve his size and skills. A year later -- after throwing for 2,055 yards and 26 touchdown passes at nearby Reedley College -- Allen had done just that. A late growth spurt pushed his height to 6-5 and his weight had jumped to around 215 pounds.

As fate would have it, Wyoming also was playing at Fresno State that 2014 season, and Brown -- who had joined the Cowboys staff under Bohl -- was recruiting the area before the game. When Brown went to Reedley College looking for defensive end prospects, a coach told him to check out Allen.

"I thought he had walked on somewhere (at an FBS school)," said Brown, who joined the Wyoming staff before Allen decided to go to junior college. "When I saw him again, he was three inches taller, had put on more weight and he had that big arm. At that point, there was definitely a place for him in the Mountain West."

Bohl spoke to Josh and his parents inside their Firebaugh home in December 2014. He was the only college head coach to ever visit their house and they had pulled Josh's two younger siblings (the Allens have four children) out of school early to be ready for the occasion. Joel and LaVonne wanted Bohl to see exactly the kind of family Josh came from, just to sweeten the appeal. When Bohl told them how he envisioned Josh as the face of his program at Wyoming, it seemed as if everything had fallen into place.

Josh being Josh, he played it cool. LaVonne wept instantly. Joel, on the other hand, was yawning occasionally, until LaVonne confronted him later; he admitted to trying to hold back his own tears. "When Coach Bohl was in my living room, he was really sincere and straight to the point," Josh said. "He was adamant about turning around the program and he wanted me to a be a big part of that. He said they had gone everywhere looking for a quarterback and he told them (Josh's parents), 'We want your son.' "

"I could feel the value system in that house when I walked in there," Bohl said. "It was the All-American story. Here's a farm kid with a mom and dad working hard and a close-knit family. When you looked in Josh's eyes, and considered everything he had gone through, you saw greatness."

Allen opened his first year at Wyoming as the backup to Cameron Coffman in 2015. He started the Cowboys' second game that year after Coffman sustained a knee injury in the season opener. It appeared destiny was finally working in Allen's favor, given how long he'd waited for such an opportunity. That was before the 13th offensive play of that game against Eastern Michigan, when a defender tackled him at the end of a 24-yard run and snapped his collarbone in seven places.

Allen was devastated by the injury -- "I didn't leave my dorm room for two weeks," he said -- but there was a silver lining in the setback. Once he got over his disappointment, he used his spare time to study the Cowboys offense on video. He went through mental reps while watching practice and he hit the weight room relentlessly. By the start of the 2016 season, he was tipping the scales at 233 pounds and telling all his teammates to prepare for a run at a conference championship.

Bohl already had seen something special in Allen, but the QB showed even more talent when he returned from the injury. "I wasn't just seeing the ball when he let it go," Bohl said. "I could hear it coming out of his hand." That arm strength was on display when Allen threw for 274 yards and three touchdowns during a 30-28 win over Boise State in 2016. Along with leading Wyoming back from a 21-7 deficit, he produced what has become the signature moment of his career: a 27-yard touchdown pass to Gentry that tied the score at 28 in the fourth quarter, resulting from Allen scrambling out of the pocket, evading two defenders and rifling the ball 45 yards in the air to his receiver in the back of the end zone.

That victory was the first Wyoming had ever enjoyed over Boise State in 11 tries. It also unleashed a celebration that ended with Cowboys fans rushing the field and ushering in the very change in culture that Bohl had wanted Allen to lead. In the midst of the chaos, Allen pushed through the crowd to find LaVonne still filming the mayhem from the stands. He called for her to join him and she somehow forced her way toward her son.

After that point, everything began to change for Allen. "People would come up to us and ask if he was coming back to school," LaVonne said. "At first, we were thinking to ourselves, 'Why wouldn't he?' But after about the eighth and ninth games of the season, we got it. It was like a wildfire."

As hard as it was for Allen's parents to handle the onslaught of agents and financial advisors, it was just as critical for Josh to make sense of what he wanted. There already was another quarterback entering the draft after only one season of action, Trubisky, whom analysts were touting as a lock for the first round (the Chicago Bears ultimately selected him second overall). If scouts weren't that concerned about Trubisky's level of experience, then they probably wouldn't have held Allen's against him, either. On top of all that, Allen had dreamed about being an NFL quarterback since the moment he first picked up a football.

What ultimately kept him in school was the realization there was still more work to do in college. Vigen specifically mentioned Wyoming's second game of the 2016 season -- a 52-17 loss at Nebraska that included six turnovers by Allen, including five interceptions -- as an example of where his quarterback could improve.

"He learned some hard lessons that day," Vigen said. "We were down seven going into the fourth quarter and he really imploded. He learned that he can't do it all by himself. There are no 14-point plays out there."

Allen also gained plenty of comfort in knowing there was more time to make all these important life choices. His family had a better feel about choosing an agent this time around, vetting financial advisors and going through interviews with reporters. The time Allen spent with Whitfield was also beneficial, as were the chats he's had with Wentz.

Today, Josh Allen and Darnold are roommates in San Clemente, Calif., where they are training with former NFL quarterback Jordan Palmer. He has an entire state following his every move, as well as several QB-needy teams who are trying to figure out if he is truly a transcendent player. He relishes the responsibility that comes with that, along with what it could mean in two months at the draft.

"I've talked to a lot of different people," said Allen, whose performance at the Senior Bowl (9-of-13 for 158 yards and two TDs) in January started to alleviate some concerns scouts had about his accuracy and touch, and confirmed his rocket arm. "And I came to the conclusion that if I want to have a 15-year playing career (in the NFL), I need to do everything possible to prepare for that."

 

Thanks for posting all this horseshit.

[SD_Tom]

16 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

SO, there is 2017. Allen was only 57.5 percent vs IOWA. IOWA is a far, far bigger better team than

Wyoming.68.8 vs little Gardner-Webb.

37.5 percent OUCH against bigtime power OREGON. (9 of 24? not good.)

Against Utah State - though, after tough games, he was 69.2 percent accuracy. A division win for Wyoming.

Boise State - only 44.4 percent. Boise State was 7-1 in their same division.

Look at the results. Then note that Allen was 72.7 percent accuracy vs Air Force.

72.7 percent ?  Yep. JOSH ALLEN's highest completion percentage was 72.7 percent. Didn't have to throw a lot, sure.

Josh ROSEN only beat that percentage ONE TIME - vs little Hawaii - same opponent Wyoming played.

That's another fun fact ! LOL

Josh Rosen in his debut game vs Virginia was at 80% completion. That's his very first game as a true freshman, with all the hype and pressure and spotlight.... and he had one of the best games in NCAAF history. You cannot find one single game from Allen that is better than Rosen's debut. It doesn't exist, and the facts and stats are not on your side. 

 

[SD_Tom]

7 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

O, there is 2017. Allen was only 57.5 percent vs IOWA. IOWA is a far, far bigger better team than

Wyoming.68.8 vs little Gardner-Webb.

37.5 percent OUCH against bigtime power OREGON. (9 of 24? not good.)

Against Utah State - though, after tough games, he was 69.2 percent accuracy. A division win for Wyoming.

Boise State - only 44.4 percent. Boise State was 7-1 in their same division.

Look at the results. Then note that Allen was 72.7 percent accuracy vs Air Force.

72.7 percent ?  Yep. JOSH ALLEN's highest completion percentage was 72.7 percent. Didn't have to throw a lot, sure.

Josh ROSEN only beat that percentage ONE TIME - vs little Hawaii - same opponent Wyoming played.

That's another fun fact ! LOL

Looking at that common opponent,  Rosen had 5 TD's at 88% for 325 yds and zero picks. Giving him a rating of 264.5. Rosen's best games will beat Allen's best games every single time. He's a better QB. 

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

How many 37.5%,  44.5%  47%  percent games did Rosen have?

lol. How many teams did rosen play that were way in a higher league? none.

How many did Allen play? more than two.

[calfoxwc]

53 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Josh Rosen in his debut game vs Virginia was at 80% completion. That's his very first game as a true freshman, with all the hype and pressure and spotlight.... and he had one of the best games in NCAAF history. You cannot find one single game from Allen that is better than Rosen's debut. It doesn't exist, and the facts and stats are not on your side. 

not true. I was going by last year. You omit facts.

For instance: UCLA, in 2014, was ranked NUMBER 7 in preseason polling the year before rosen got there for his freshman year. Rosen walked into a top ten ranked team in the nation. Of course he would end up with a terrific cast of players around him. Have a nice day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_UCLA_Bruins_football_team

The Bruins were ranked No. 7 in preseason national polls, and were expected to contend for not only one of the four berths in the College Football Playoff, but also the national championship.

[calfoxwc]

52 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

I then looking at that common opponent,  Rosen had 5 TD's at 88% for 325 yds and zero picks. Giving him a rating of 264.5. Rosen's best games will beat Allen's best games every single time. He's a better QB. 

Surely you jest. A common opponent vs the Wyoming talent compared to the common opponent vs the UCLA talent that was rated 7th in the nation the year before?

Come on, man. If you put rosen with Wyoming, he'd suck. He wouldn't have all that talent, and he'd be playing Oregon and Iowa, fer cryin out loud. He would have gotten a few more concussions, as muc has he doesn't move around much and if fragile.

[The Gipper]

36 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

lol. How many teams did rosen play that were way in a higher league? none.

How many did Allen play? more than two.

Rosen played every game game in a higher, better league. Pac 12 vs.  mid major league.