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From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen

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http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-draft-2018-mock-josh-allen-stats-cleveland-browns-josh-rosen-sam-darnold/1ejstjausnzz81jksm3yr64o1h

2018 NFL Draft: Is QB Josh Allen turning into a consensus No. 1 overall pick?

ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. caught people off guard Thursday morning when he predicted the Browns will draft Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen No. 1 overall in his most recent mock draft, but what might surprise fans even more is an NFL executive is backing him up.

"I believe (Cleveland GM John) Dorsey will block out the noise and take the best guy (in Allen),'' an unnamed executive told the Cleveland Plain-Dealer. "And the Browns will be good very soon.''

 
 

This same executive told the Plain-Dealer before the 2016 draft that if Cleveland would take Carson Wentz with their first pick they would be set for the next 15 years. The Browns didn't, and the results speak for themselves. Wentz would have been the MVP this year had he not suffered a season-ending knee injury, and Cleveland went 0-16.

Allen is the most polarizing player in the 2018 draft class. He has arm strength comparable to John Elway, a similar build to Wentz, and a virtually blank canvas with which to work. He was a junior college QB before going to Wyoming and he hasn't taken a crazy amount of reps, so teams can develop him their own way.

 

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5 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming. John Elway was in attendance for Allen's masterful bowl game, so he saw the rocket arm and mobility up close. With an offseason emphasis on bolstering the offensive line and complementary pieces on defense, the Broncos will try to create an environment conducive to success for the gifted but raw quarterback. Rosen's concussions scare Denver's front office.

Taking Allen in the first-round would fit well in their recent tradition of first-round busts in Tim Tebow and Paxton Lynch. 

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1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

I'm sure he is smart, it takes a smart person to run an offense. He is very talented. He may not be a problem off the field, but he seems entitled, and just puts off a vibe that he wants everything his way. 

Didn't they have a similar knock on Rodgers? That's why he dropped so far. He was supposedly a weak leader and/or his teammates didn't like him. 

Elway doesn't exactly have a stellar track record in picking QB's thus far, so I couldn't care less what he's interested in. I care about the Browns getting it right at #1 

I really wanted to see Mahomes play more, just to see how he looked. Dorsey nailed Kareem Hunt, I wished we had more of a sample size for Mahomes. 

 

 

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Elway saw enough of Josh Allens practice week at Mobile,Alabama that he hopes Mayfield or Rosen falls to him..The QB race to #3 should only cost Colts a couple spots down & Colts should draft lineman to save A. Luck's both arms..

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17 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Didn't they have a similar knock on Rodgers? That's why he dropped so far. He was supposedly a weak leader and/or his teammates didn't like him. 

Elway doesn't exactly have a stellar track record in picking QB's thus far, so I couldn't care less what he's interested in. I care about the Browns getting it right at #1 

I really wanted to see Mahomes play more, just to see how he looked. Dorsey nailed Kareem Hunt, I wished we had more of a sample size for Mahomes. 

 

 

Well I see difference in their character, but yes Aaron had concerns. Aaron also still is very Socky. 

I think there is that to not like, plus I dont know how he would adjust to the cold, windy, snowy weather. While I dont care for him, Flacco is in a good spot because of his size and strengths, I dont think if you put Dak Prescott there he would do well.

Just something else to think about. Not trying to change anyone's mind. I see good and bad in all of them, I just know from working with QBs that it has to be a part of the equation 

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1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

PoG thinks cal's love affair over Allen is over-the-top. 

Nope, I support anybody's opinion on which QB we should take #4. 

 

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Trouble is, I see what I see. I don't change my dumb opinions, just to agree with

other people so I'm with the majority, etc etc.

Mayfield and Allen LOVE the game, and they have that work ethic and

a bit of chip on their shoulder that they never, ever had anything handed to them,

they worked their asses off to get where they are today. I just think the Browns will go

Allen or Mayfield. It is what it is. If they don't pick a qb at all til later on, well after they trade the 4 pick, whatever,

I'll simply ROF, LMAO !

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52 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

Well I see difference in their character, but yes Aaron had concerns. Aaron also still is very Socky. 

I think there is that to not like, plus I dont know how he would adjust to the cold, windy, snowy weather. While I dont care for him, Flacco is in a good spot because of his size and strengths, I dont think if you put Dak Prescott there he would do well.

Just something else to think about. Not trying to change anyone's mind. I see good and bad in all of them, I just know from working with QBs that it has to be a part of the equation 

The QB most linked to Browns is Darnold. Also a socal guy who never plays in the cold/snow/freezing rain, and USC QB's have basically sucked for years in the NFL. Let's see how Darnold looks after working with J Palmer. No doubt that Rosen looked better head to head. Would've preferred t see Darnold throw at combine for direct comparison to all of them. 

We know Rosen throws a damn good deep ball. 

https://twitter.com/BruinReport/status/974397967510597632

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

The QB most linked to Browns is Darnold. Also a socal guy who never plays in the cold/snow/freezing rain

I also prefer Rosen to Darnold Tom, but can we finally move on past the "this QB couldn't play in Cleveland because he's from a warm weather area of the U.S." narrative? 

The three best QBs in Green Bay Packers history are Bart Starr, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. They played college ball at Alabama, Southern Miss and Cal, respectively. 

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6 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Trouble is, I see what I see. I don't change my dumb opinions

We know, we know... 

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2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I also prefer Rosen to Darnold Tom, but can we finally move on past the "this QB couldn't play in Cleveland because he's from a warm weather area of the U.S." narrative? 

The three best QBs in Green Bay Packers history are Bart Starr, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. They played college ball at Alabama, Southern Miss and Cal, respectively. 

Nice!  You're way better than I am at staying put on 1 QB Dutch.  I started the off season with Darnold as my 1A, Mayfield as my 1B and I think Rudolph was my 1C (without any willingness whatsoever to give Rosen a chance).  This week I'm at Mayfield as my 1A and Rosen as my 1B and Darnold as my 1C so you can take my input with a grain of salt.

I'm not even close to buying the Hallmark Fairy Tale about the QB that threw 15 INTs in 2016 followed by only 16 TDs in 2017 against Junior Varsity caliber corners and pass rushers.  If a guy throws more TD passes at the Combine than he did in his final year or 2 of college football - who's kidding who?   If I went back and got Allen's completion percentages far below 50% where he averaged less than 1 TD pass against bigger/better DI programs - it's a more accurate depiction of what he looks like in a world that includes the best pass rushers and DBs college football stockpiled the NFL with.  

I've already seen a couple a couple bionic armed QBs here with the football IQ of a pet rock fail miserably here. I'm not falling for the next one no matter how many "YEAH BUT HE"S A GREAT KID" and "HE LOVES FOOTBALL" or "AND GET THIS THE BUCKY BROOKS ADORES HIM" or "HE HAS THE SAME COACH WENTZ HAD."  Okay, give me that Offensive Coach.

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6 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Nice!  You're way better than I am at staying put on 1 QB Dutch.  I started the off season with Darnold as my 1A, Mayfield as my 1B and I think Rudolph was my 1C (without any willingness whatsoever to give Rosen a chance).  This week I'm at Mayfield as my 1A and Rosen as my 1B and Darnold as my 1C so you can take my input with a grain of salt.

I've wavered off Rosen for a while, finding myself drifting towards Darnold, but have come back to Rosen. I think of the UCLA/USC game, and how Rosen was heads above Darnold. He's the best QB in this class at standing in the pocket, making reads and hitting his target on stride. Those things matter most to me, not how far he can throw a ball from his knees or how fast he is.

I am very, very intrigued to see Mayfield in the NFL - I just don't want the Browns to use a #1 or #4 overall to see it. At the end of the day he's 6' tall from the Big 12. Does that guarantee his failure? Absolutely not. But how many really good NFL QBs fit that profile?

Allen? No. No. No. 

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27 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I've wavered off Rosen for a while, finding myself drifting towards Darnold, but have come back to Rosen. I think of the UCLA/USC game, and how Rosen was heads above Darnold. He's the best QB in this class at standing in the pocket, making reads and hitting his target on stride. Those things matter most to me, not how far he can throw a ball from his knees or how fast he is.

I am very, very intrigued to see Mayfield in the NFL - I just don't want the Browns to use a #1 or #4 overall to see it. At the end of the day he's 6' tall from the Big 12. Does that guarantee his failure? Absolutely not. But how many really good NFL QBs fit that profile?

Allen? No. No. No. 

You and me aren't too far apart in our concerns for each QB inclusive of our faves.  With Rosen, it's how many more concussions or injuries does he have left?  With Darnold, I'm not as confident as others that the NFL with just coach up his bad habit of holding the ball knee high when he starts to leave the pocket. I've seen 3 different highlights of the same instinct ending in fumble so they have NOT coached it out of him at the less complex level of football.  My concerns for Baker are the same as your's BUT the QB I compare him to most (Drew Brees) emerged after 3 years of growing pains.  He's gonna require some patience just like Darnold.  I think Rosen can start earlier than any of them intelligence-wise and fundamentally.  As Joe Pesci would say "I'm escared" of the concussion inventory and durability.

All that got me thinking 1 or 2 of those top QBs may still be on our doorstep at #4.  Even better with all this Josh Allen dementia - John Elway has already been fooled by Paxton Lynch in between falling for Brock Osweiler twice. The strong arm of Josh Allen could very easily fool him again to the extent of trading up.   He looked like he just had a 24 hour bout with food poisoning when he was forcing that smile and pretending to be all happy about the cake they just committed to Case Keenum.  So far, the ONLY QB I've seen Elway get right is a well proven Peyton Manning as strange as this may seem for a QB that made the HOF.  Man, I'd at least expect him to be better at it than Ghoolie is but stay tuned... It looks like the Josh Allen fan club and Bucky Brooks are all drinking the same stupid juice or moonshine but God Bless em...

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LOL. Brock Osweiler scored a 25 on the Wonderlic test. No joke. If Allen scores low, he's off everybody's list.

Year

Team

 

Passing

 

Rushing

Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A TD Int Rtg Att Yds Avg TD
2009 Arizona State 24 55 43.6 249 4.5 2 2 86.4 16 7 0.4 0
2010 Arizona State 62 109 56.9 797 7.3 5 0 133.4 38 124 3.3 1
2011 Arizona State 326 516 63.2 4,036 7.8 26 13 140.5 83 90 1.1 3
Career 412 680 60.6 5,082 7.5 33 15 135.0 137 221 1.6 4

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9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Trouble is, I see what I see. I don't change my dumb opinions, just to agree with

other people so I'm with the majority, etc etc.

Mayfield and Allen LOVE the game, and they have that work ethic and

a bit of chip on their shoulder that they never, ever had anything handed to them,

they worked their asses off to get where they are today. I just think the Browns will go

Allen or Mayfield. It is what it is. If they don't pick a qb at all til later on, well after they trade the 4 pick, whatever,

I'll simply ROF, LMAO !

Barkley has the same type of attitude you love if youre a coach.

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38 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

LOL. Brock Osweiler scored a 25 on the Wonderlic test. No joke. If Allen scores low, he's off everybody's list.

Year

Team

 

Passing

 

Rushing

Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A TD Int Rtg Att Yds Avg TD
2009 Arizona State 24 55 43.6 249 4.5 2 2 86.4 16 7 0.4 0
2010 Arizona State 62 109 56.9 797 7.3 5 0 133.4 38 124 3.3 1
2011 Arizona State 326 516 63.2 4,036 7.8 26 13 140.5 83 90 1.1 3
Career 412 680 60.6 5,082 7.5 33 15 135.0 137 221 1.6 4

Jim Kelly said it best - "I did horrible on that Wonderlic Test and probably broke a record for a terrible score. My interpretation of a comparison of cats and dogs had no bearing on my level of preparation or ability to run a No Huddle Offense to the success level of 4 consecutive AFC Championships."  I'll guarantee guys like Favre and Marino Dumb Jocked that assessment too.  It took Brandon about 28 starts to learn he can throw the ball away if he just takes 3 strides to his right or his left. I can only imagine how much fun DCs had messing with his hollow dome.

Scouts and FOs can see enough film to determine whether a guy has a low football IQ or not. They can also get the guy to a chalk board to confirm their feelings as well as interview previous coaches.This ins't exclusive to the QB position either.  If we had anything beyond lazy when Farmer was here - there was an Oklahoma State Coaching Staff chomping at the bits to warn us about the headaches they had with the Justin Gilbert we flushed a 1st round draft pick down the toilet with.

I'd like to know what was so overwhelming about all those corners and pass rushers that caused Allen to throw 15 INTs in 2016 or that prevented him from throwing more than 16 TD passes in 2017.  And I posted the forgettable numbers he had against better DI schools to remind me he wasn't escalating the play of his teammates.  When there weren't defenders and formations challenging time to throw, mechanics, intellect and accuracy at the Combine - it sure looked like he threw a lot more TD passes than he did during the 2017 season. 

Arm strength is only 1 of countless intangibles that define a QB's success overall.  I think DA and Weeden did a sufficient job of reminding us of this.

 

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3 hours ago, Flugel said:

Nice!  You're way better than I am at staying put on 1 QB Dutch.  I started the off season with Darnold as my 1A, Mayfield as my 1B and I think Rudolph was my 1C (without any willingness whatsoever to give Rosen a chance).  This week I'm at Mayfield as my 1A and Rosen as my 1B and Darnold as my 1C so you can take my input with a grain of salt.

I'm not even close to buying the Hallmark Fairy Tale about the QB that threw 15 INTs in 2016 followed by only 16 TDs in 2017 against Junior Varsity caliber corners and pass rushers.  If a guy throws more TD passes at the Combine than he did in his final year or 2 of college football - who's kidding who?   If I went back and got Allen's completion percentages far below 50% where he averaged less than 1 TD pass against bigger/better DI programs - it's a more accurate depiction of what he looks like in a world that includes the best pass rushers and DBs college football stockpiled the NFL with.  

I've already seen a couple a couple bionic armed QBs here with the football IQ of a pet rock fail miserably here. I'm not falling for the next one no matter how many "YEAH BUT HE"S A GREAT KID" and "HE LOVES FOOTBALL" or "AND GET THIS THE BUCKY BROOKS ADORES HIM" or "HE HAS THE SAME COACH WENTZ HAD."  Okay, give me that Offensive Coach.

If you actually watch the combine for Rosen,  it's not really accurate to say he was terrible.  Brooks is a complete hater for whatever reason... that article made it seem like he missed almost every single throw,  and that just wasn't the case.

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19 hours ago, stillmotion said:

... heard too many negative things about Rosen to trust his character.

You stopped listening too soon.

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

PoG thinks cal's love affair over Allen is over-the-top. 

lol... Your one-liners make a return worthwhile.
 

5 hours ago, Flugel said:

Nice!  You're way better than I am at staying put on 1 QB Dutch.  I started the off season with Darnold as my 1A, Mayfield as my 1B and I think Rudolph was my 1C (without any willingness whatsoever to give Rosen a chance).  This week I'm at Mayfield as my 1A and Rosen as my 1B and Darnold as my 1C so you can take my input with a grain of salt.

Sounds like me last year... flitting from QB prospect to QB prospect and never settling on one.

No such problem for me this year... ;)

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2 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Barkley has the same type of attitude you love if youre a coach.

Absolutely correct ! Interesting - we got our power back, now Barkley and he could be

a one-two punch in the backfield- going to be a very kickass offense after it's done.

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1 hour ago, SD_Tom said:

If you actually watch the combine for Rosen,  it's not really accurate to say he was terrible.  Brooks is a complete hater for whatever reason... that article made it seem like he missed almost every single throw,  and that just wasn't the case.

Don't know about Brooks' bias, but I can testify to the rest. Rosen started off shaky, but settled in.

The Problem at the Combine with all the QB prospects was they were too focused on "completions" and not the things the scouts were there to see.... starting with footwork. There was no urgency in their drops... no crispness. Next were the throws... and whether they were where they should be, when they should be. Here Mayfield and Rosen did as well as anyone and better than most.

David Carr was going on and on about the above, and he was spot on.

I've only seen two Pro-days... Mayfield's and Rosen's.

  • Mayfield's drops while better were still not crisp. Rosen's on the other hand were much, much better.
  • Mayfield threw indoors while Rosen threw outdoors on a very windy day.
  • Mayfield did his set program, while Rosen told all the scouts there that after his 60-ish programmed throws, if there were any they still needed to see or see again, to just ask.

 

Heard one anecdote from Matt Hasselbeck on NFL LIve yesterday...

Whereas at an earlier Pro Day a QB missed a throw and "got on" the WR for running a square-in at 12 yards instead of 15, when Rosen threw incomplete on a clearly called out route that the WR ran as an in, Rosen said, "Thats' on me."

Rosen knew his WR was being scouted as well. What a sucky teammate! lol

I believe the "earlier QB" was Mayfield.

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2 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

If you actually watch the combine for Rosen,  it's not really accurate to say he was terrible.  Brooks is a complete hater for whatever reason... that article made it seem like he missed almost every single throw,  and that just wasn't the case.

I wasn't talking about Rosen Tom - I was busting Josh Allen's #1 fan's chops with the Bucky Brooks comment.  I thought Rosen looked good after his first throw.

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1 hour ago, Flugel said:

I wasn't talking about Rosen Tom - I was busting Josh Allen's #1 fan's chops with the Bucky Brooks comment.  I thought Rosen looked good after his first throw.

I know. But the "Winners and Losers" was Brooks. He was one of the few who thought Rosen looked bad... then you had Mayock on the same day saying "He looked great" I saw the article that day and went and watched the videos... and I wouldn't call it bad or poor, he missed some early throws, shrugged it off and hit some great throws. They made it sound like it was a Teddy Twatwater type day where he was awful. He wasn't perfect but he wasn't horrible.  

 

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2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Absolutely correct ! Interesting - we got our power back, now Barkley and he could be

a one-two punch in the backfield- going to be a very kickass offense after it's done.

Best RB trio in the AFCN.

Barkley is the perfect weapon for today's passing offenses. Get him out in space and throw him the ball. The YAC will follow. People are complaining that Barkley only has 4.4 speed. :lol: Francis41 was expecting 4.3 speed.

 

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23 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

I know. But the "Winners and Losers" was Brooks. He was one of the few who thought Rosen looked bad... then you had Mayock on the same day saying "He looked great" I saw the article that day and went and watched the videos... and I wouldn't call it bad or poor, he missed some early throws, shrugged it off and hit some great throws. They made it sound like it was a Teddy Twatwater type day where he was awful. He wasn't perfect but he wasn't horrible.  

 

I'm not one that thinks Bucky Brooks is a great judge of QB talent. 

Believe it or not, as much as I really like Mike Mayock's research for most position groups - I wasn't as impressed with his work on the QBs this year.  He puts Darnold as his #1 QB and gives us far more complaints than reasons why he has him rated #1.  Then he's got Lamar Jackson tied for #5 with Mason Rudolph and he raves about him way more than he did for his #1 ranked guy.  I DO like what he said about Mayfield expecting to be critical when he started on his tape and ending up very pleasantly surprised with accuracy and arm strength.  The more he watched the more he became a big believer.  David Carr said something very similar as did someone else.  

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7 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

LOL. Brock Osweiler scored a 25 on the Wonderlic test. No joke. If Allen scores low, he's off everybody's list.

 

     
  412 680 60.6 5,082 7.5 33 15 135.0 137 221 1.6 4

The baseline FOR QBS is 20 CaL. CHILL OUT.  A few guys have scored below 10. they can't spell cat if you spot them the c and t, and don't know what month is between August and October. 

1 hour ago, SD_Tom said:

 

I would take Shaquem Griffin ahead of Allen. Not kidding either. 

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29 minutes ago, hoorta said:

The baseline FOR QBS is 20 CaL. CHILL OUT.  A few guys have scored below 10. they can't spell cat if you spot them the c and t, and don't know what month is between August and October. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test

Some notable players who scored well above the average include:

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Peyton Manning got a 28

barfrapistbooger got a 25

akili smith got a 37 LOL

Terry Bradshaw 15

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4 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Best RB trio in the AFCN.

Barkley is the perfect weapon for today's passing offenses. Get him out in space and throw him the ball. The YAC will follow. People are complaining that Barkley only has 4.4 speed. :lol: Francis41 was expecting 4.3 speed.

 

I'm guessing I am supposed to be Francis41???

No I wasn't expecting a 4.3, Saquon Barkleys son,brother,cousin, sister, fan boy whatever POG is, said he would run sub 4.3

And since he is the one posting things about him every 5 minutes and saying to trust him on this one, I figured he would know.

Before you call someone out for something, know the story or look dumb

 

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