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calfoxwc

From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen

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1 hour ago, dawg2fan said:

Thanks Cal for you post.  I really appreciate your highlighting (in Bold Red) the updated stats above.  As you know, I've been pushing for either Allen or Darnold as my favorites (but Allen first).  I also see you posted they were roommates above, nice.  I'll be a Browns fan regardless of whether they pick one of these QBs at 1, but it would make my day if they do.  Let Taylor start the first 2 years so they can learn, then bring that QB in.  **Something Kizer never got**  * (Sorry Dawg fans, just what I believe). 

Thanks, man ! It's just what I see. None of us is an expert - for most of us, it's fun to try to figure it out - then the draft comes, and everybody on the planet is mostly wrong about what teams picked what players. I'm delighted we didn't go the Kirk Cousins route.

Taylor is no dummy - he's a smart gutsy qb - should be fun to watch this season. and this next draft, ...whoa...is going to be amazing and fun to watch unfold.

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1 hour ago, boo fagley said:

Things are great over in the Allen camp.

How is it over at the Rosen camp? Did he get his gold jacket yet?

Camp Rosen not lookin too rosy. They are waiting to be disappointed.

pine-cottage-729_0.jpg?itok=THSzO6Zf

 

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Like Darnold or Mayfield or Rosen or Jackson can't work on their accuracy and skills too? Only Allen can improve apparently.  Everyone else will stay the same or get worse. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SD_Tom said:

Like Darnold or Mayfield or Rosen or Jackson can't work on their accuracy and skills too? Only Allen can improve apparently.  Everyone else will stay the same or get worse. 

 

 

 

nobody ever said that. Rosen's love for the game, lack of leadership skills, and arrogance is what he needs to work on - for starters.....and that has been reinforced since he was a little kid. You can't coach away stupid, either. So, you admit the others can grow and develop, but Allen can't? He has the highest ceiling. He has the ability to throw the ball like no one else in the draft. That doesn't mean he achieves that ceiling, but he is similar to Mayfield in his work ethic, and being passed over earlier in their careers.

    His love for the game, his work ethic is off the charts, just like Mayfield. Let's say Allen gets his footwork all settled, and ends up being outstanding in accuracy...wouldn't you want to draft this kid #1 ?

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30 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

nobody ever said that. Rosen's love for the game, lack of leadership skills, and arrogance is what he needs to work on - for starters.....and that has been reinforced since he was a little kid. You can't coach away stupid, either. So, you admit the others can grow and develop, but Allen can't? He has the highest ceiling. He has the ability to throw the ball like no one else in the draft. That doesn't mean he achieves that ceiling, but he is similar to Mayfield in his work ethic, and being passed over earlier in their careers.

    His love for the game, his work ethic is off the charts, just like Mayfield. Let's say Allen gets his footwork all settled, and ends up being outstanding in accuracy...wouldn't you want to draft this kid #1 ?

You're delusional if you think Rosen is dumb. It's literally the opposite of what every single scout and coach has said  

I never once said Allen can't improve. I said he's far behind the others,  and from the scouts and GMs,  they seem to feel Rosen is far beyond the others in terms of the skill and understanding of the game. In theory - If you at a 5,  and someone else is at a 7... You're still behind unless you develop exponentially faster than they do. What if the reason they're at a higher starting level is because they learn and develop faster? It's simply have more skill? Then the guy at the lower level will never catch up. 

I'd prefer not bank on upside with the #1 pick.  Kizer had more upside than anyone else and he was obviously not ready.  If the Browns were picking lower,  Allen has obvious traits, but with the #1 pick for a team with no room for error? No thanks.

The whole... If he does this... And this and fixed this and fixed this and blah blah blah..... Then he's not Josh Allen. Or  he's the fastest self reprogrammer of tendencies and thought process and biomechanics  in modern athletics. 

In other words - If my aunt had balls,  she'd be my uncle. You can only fix so much. 

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13 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

You're delusional if you think Rosen is dumb. It's literally the opposite of what every single scout and coach has said  

I never said Rosen's dumb.  As a matter of fact, I think he's more pro ready than any of the other QBs.  But you have to think long term and I think Allen's the guy.  I think he's more of a Ben Rothlessburger than any QB available, but needs more time to develop. And it's great we picked up Tyrod in FA.  If we pick up Allen, I think this fan base will be very impressed.   

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1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

nobody ever said that. Rosen's love for the game, lack of leadership skills, and arrogance is what he needs to work on - for starters.....and that has been reinforced since he was a little kid. You can't coach away stupid, either. So, you admit the others can grow and develop, but Allen can't? He has the highest ceiling. He has the ability to throw the ball like no one else in the draft. That doesn't mean he achieves that ceiling, but he is similar to Mayfield in his work ethic, and being passed over earlier in their careers.

    His love for the game, his work ethic is off the charts, just like Mayfield. Let's say Allen gets his footwork all settled, and ends up being outstanding in accuracy...wouldn't you want to draft this kid #1 ?

Greg Cosell already commented on Allen's "arm accuracy" or more exactly lack of it Cal. Can he improve? Sure, but if I'm John Dorsey I'm not betting my career with the Browns on it at #1 overall. Said it before Cal. Josh may have a John Elway ceiling if he can fix his accuracy, and a Brandon Weeden floor if he can't.   

Can't coach away stupid? The Wonderlic scores aren't out yet- but the betting odds were Rosen will have the highest score of all the quarterbacks. 

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37 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Greg Cosell already commented on Allen's "arm accuracy" or more exactly lack of it Cal. Can he improve? Sure, but if I'm John Dorsey I'm not betting my career with the Browns on it at #1 overall. Said it before Cal. Josh may have a John Elway ceiling if he can fix his accuracy, and a Brandon Weeden floor if he can't.   

Can't coach away stupid? The Wonderlic scores aren't out yet- but the betting odds were Rosen will have the highest score of all the quarterbacks. 

I got it, except the weeden floor. Weeden never learned to have touch on the ball. Allen does that well. Most of the time.

We'll see how it goes. I predict if Allen has a very high score, there will be knashing of teeth and posts belittling the Wonderlic scores.

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1 hour ago, SD_Tom said:

You're delusional...

Cold have saved a bunch of pixels...

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2 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

You're delusional if you think Rosen is dumb. It's literally the opposite of what every single scout and coach has said

ah, I didn't say the can't coach stupid thing referring to Rosen. Never said he was dumb. He did admit he had a problem with women all over UCLA who didn't know him.

that isn't good. But it doesn't make him stupid. Look, rosen might be alright in the pros, after he gets out of the

college environment, etc.

  And maybe not. That is the question.

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6 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Boo so how much black coffee did you drink, really? :blink:

MAGA guys don't like anything black.

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6 hours ago, Nero said:

Make A Good Accent?

One

Big

Azz

Mistake

America

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Dorsey loves Allen rumors said. I could see him picking him.

I loved Mayfield, but I thought making a documentary about yourself before you even play a snap is a bit narcissistic and pathetic.

Not sold on D'Arnold, and have heard too many negative things about Rosen to trust his character.

Who knows, Allen might end up being the best. I trust him to make the choice over anyone else. Especially Baby Huey, 

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1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

One

Big

Azz

Mistake

America

Alabama?

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39 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

Dorsey loves Allen rumors said. I could see him picking him.

I loved Mayfield, but I thought making a documentary about yourself before you even play a snap is a bit narcissistic and pathetic.

Not sold on D'Arnold, and have heard too many negative things about Rosen to trust his character.

Who knows, Allen might end up being the best. I trust him to make the choice over anyone else. Especially Baby Huey, 

Rumors.....or smokescreen?

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Here's some more opinions - they are all different, no surprise:

(notice, btw, rosen isn't chosen once)

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Mock-Draft-Roundup-5-different-predictions-for-No-1-after-combine/52ff850a-2430-4c20-bcc0-dc960d5c0b0d

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Those are all columnists/journalists... even Jeremiah is hard to take serious anymore.   As for PFF - their collegiate rankings don't translate to NFL draft position but they just try anyway.  

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18 minutes ago, syd said:

were drafting Darnold at #1 

I honestly could see the Browns drafting Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield or Allen. 

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40 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I honestly could see the Browns drafting Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield or Allen. 

so what if they really do not like any of them just hold the pick for ransom ?

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One thing people don't seem to talk about much with any of the QBs is fit. One can have the biggest upside, one can be the best athlete, one can have the biggest heart, one can have best arm, one can be most pro ready, etc.

But the thing people tend to leave out is how a player with fit in a system and weather.

Some things can certainly be changed/improved but not being good in certain weather etc can't be improved that much.

I am certainly fallible and could certainly be wrong, but even with the talent they have, I dont believe someone like Russell Wilson or Drew Brees would be nearly as effective in Cleveland. Weather changes things. If you have never worked with a QB it's hard to understand. 

That's why I certainly don't favor Jackson. I think with some of the attitude stuff as well, Rosen would be lower on my list because although very talented, he seems a little entitled.

Mayfield size and measurables worry me some, more so than his antics. He also has a lot of pluses. Darnold has some issues he needs to work on, and if he does has good measurables. Allen is the biggest hit or miss to me. He has everything off the field and measurables, but on the field has left a lot to be desired. He could be REALLY good after some work or could be Jamarcus Russell. 

Tough choice. I hope they make the right decision.

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the so called QB whisper will probably ruin whatever QB we draft

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36 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

One thing people don't seem to talk about much with any of the QBs is fit. One can have the biggest upside, one can be the best athlete, one can have the biggest heart, one can have best arm, one can be most pro ready, etc.

But the thing people tend to leave out is how a player with fit in a system and weather.

Some things can certainly be changed/improved but not being good in certain weather etc can't be improved that much.

I am certainly fallible and could certainly be wrong, but even with the talent they have, I dont believe someone like Russell Wilson or Drew Brees would be nearly as effective in Cleveland. Weather changes things. If you have never worked with a QB it's hard to understand. 

That's why I certainly don't favor Jackson. I think with some of the attitude stuff as well, Rosen would be lower on my list because although very talented, he seems a little entitled.

Mayfield size and measurables worry me some, more so than his antics. He also has a lot of pluses. Darnold has some issues he needs to work on, and if he does has good measurables. Allen is the biggest hit or miss to me. He has everything off the field and measurables, but on the field has left a lot to be desired. He could be REALLY good after some work or could be Jamarcus Russell. 

Tough choice. I hope they make the right decision.

I think Rosen is smart enough to understand how much work and effort it takes to be great. I doubt you'd see him be a problem off field. 

Rosen throws a very tight spiral,  and based on the throws he made at his pro day in some pretty gusty wind,  his arm is plenty strong.

Nobody questioned his leadership or toughness  when he led a 34 point comeback vs A&M.  How may QB's could've realistically pulled out a win there? That game was insane.  I remember I turned it off, saw the ticker and had to go back. 

Crazy stat : this comeback started at the exact same point in the 3rd quarter as the patriots comeback in the SB

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

I think Rosen is smart enough to understand how much work and effort it takes to be great. I doubt you'd see him be a problem off field. 

Rosen throws a very tight spiral,  and based on the throws he made at his pro day in some pretty gusty wind,  his arm is plenty strong.

Nobody questioned his leadership or toughness  when he led a 34 point comeback vs A&M.  How may QB's could've realistically pulled out a win there? That game was insane.  I remember I turned it off, saw the ticker and had to go back. 

Crazy stat : this comeback started at the exact same point in the 3rd quarter as the patriots comeback in the SB

 

 

 

I'm sure he is smart, it takes a smart person to run an offense. He is very talented. He may not be a problem off the field, but he seems entitled, and just puts off a vibe that he wants everything his way. 

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3 hours ago, syd said:

so what if they really do not like any of them just hold the pick for ransom ?

Sure...

I wouldn't go at it that way, but they could do what the Rams did to the Skins in the RGIII draft. 

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Like I noted in the other thread, Elway struggled when he went to the Broncos. I see some Elway in Allen.

There are serious similarities.

It isn't just some of us:

http://1063cowboycountry.com/comparing-josh-allen-to-a-young-john-elway-video/

Oklahoma quarterback Baker Mayfield may not play in the Senior Bowl on Saturday, but Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen certainly will.

Allen will get another chance to show off his strong arm with the Broncos’ brass watching. There’s not much more he can prove, though, as he spent the last week practicing under Denver’s coaches.

“Josh Allen has a wonderful throwing arm,” Broncos coach Vance Joseph said after practice Wednesday. “He made some big-time throws today. He’s in command of the huddle. That was good to see.”

Added general manager John Elway to KUSA-TV’s Mike Klis: “He’s big, he’s strong, he’s got a strong arm and he can move around.”

 

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PoG thinks cal's love affair over Allen is over-the-top. 

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Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming. John Elway was in attendance for Allen's masterful bowl game, so he saw the rocket arm and mobility up close. With an offseason emphasis on bolstering the offensive line and complementary pieces on defense, the Broncos will try to create an environment conducive to success for the gifted but raw quarterback. Rosen's concussions scare Denver's front office.

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