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From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen

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50 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Like him or laugh at him, the biggest thing I ever saw Mel Kiper get right was "beware the last minute risers that surface especially when the football stops being played." 

And ironically enough we need to pay attention that it is Kiper who has pushed Allen to the top. What an f'n joke!

And Mayfield did everything humanly possible to get OK a NC except tackle Sony Michel, who gave them the knockout blows.

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18 hours ago, gumby73 said:

and you might be right but the caution light came on when Dorsey thinks Hue needs talent. Offensive talent clearly. Am more disappointed with Hue's use of Kizer with no other choice behind him. Falls on Sashi too. We'll see who GB tries to slide to PS Kizer or his twin from UCLA Hunley  

Gumby, as much as I agree with some of your points - let's be honest about our overall talent.  Also, growing pains of inexperience aren't always bad coaching. For example, Ogbah was starting to become the DE we hoped he'd be prior to injury last year.  He was the #1 ranked DE against the run by PFF while he was leading us in sacks when he went on IR.  That said, when we looked at who had to replace him and Garrett when they were injured - Nassib and Orchard didn't step up nearly as consistently as we needed them to IMO.  Another example of improvement in the 2nd year is Joe Schobert partly from growing pains and partly from coaches placing him where he helped us most. I see examples of success where they were possible.  But I also see a team that can least afford injuries to starters due to the FO that hasn't had us stacked from top to bottom to the caliber of our AFC North opponents topping us all the time.

Our WR Corps that only included Josh Gordon for 5 games in the last 3 years SUCKED rat dong. Even the T Pryor that was going onto greener grass elsewhere with better QBing and better Offensive Coaching wasn't making them feel good about adding him when he was healthy there.  He actually did better here at least to the extent far less were saying don't let the door hit you in the assss on the way out.

Defensively, our secondary was as piss poor as our WR Corps.  I think the 31st ranking at intercepting QBs was an accurate depiction. Jamar Taylor was overpaid as soon as Miami deemed him not worthy of keeping around for upside they weren't seeing.  We not only brought him in at a FA raise - he got another raise here like our FO was doing us a favor. In a division that starts WRs like Antonio Brown, Michael Crabtree, AJ Green during a passing era - it's going to take more than 2 good edge rushers get these beyostards covered. 

While McCourtey played extremely well here up until the ankle injury at least according to PFF and my 2 eyes; his age made him worthy of good bye in TN where they drafted a corner in round 1 to upside/upgrade his spot in their lineup.  Gregg Williams had him playing better football than finger LeBeau had him playing. That said, he's on 32 year old legs which don't bounce back from injury right away as we saw and perhaps TN experienced prior to cutting him loose.  I DID appreciate him playing through injury even though he wasn't nearly the same performer. 

I saw evidence of this team playing well where they were capable of it (ie: against the run). I also saw inexperience and growing pains where I expected to.  That said, there's no excuse for the length of time our FOs gave a blind eye to the WR Corps and Secondary in a passing era. It's like we've been asking any QB/victim to play well without giving him the tools to do so.  It's like telling a landscaper to go cut lawns without their weed wackers and tractors/mowers while expecting productivity and efficiency. It wasn't just wide eye rookies and inexperienced QBs getting sacked/hit holding onto the ball too long. We saw McCown, RG3&Out, and David Whitehurst doing the same stuff.  If we ever do get the healthy/steady edge rush we've been aiming for in the draft - teams are going to challenge our secondary and backers with quicker throws. Tour had a pretty good idea with using #4 Denzel Ward at corner.  The last time someone had a similar idea in New Orleans they lasso'd themselves a Defensive Rookie of the Year.

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43 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

And ironically enough we need to pay attention that it is Kiper who has pushed Allen to the top. What an f'n joke!

And Mayfield did everything humanly possible to get OK a NC except tackle Sony Michel, who gave them the knockout blows.

I hear ya!  The main reason I've rarely taken Kiper serious in regards to BPA/our biggest needs remains the gigantic conflict of interest in the reality he's a HUGE Ratbird fan.  Of course, he wants us taking Josh Allen.  Why wouldn't he? 

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2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Thanks Mike, I need a Dead Horse..We took Coleman at #15..We took Cam Terd'ing at #19..We got a 5th rounder from KC trading Erving..Is trading Coleman worth biting that kind of bullet? Sign me up maybe if could get any kind 3rd? where do we fold are tents & keep Coleman? (topic alert..Josh Allen what do you think?)   

A 3rd for Coleman? What a wonderful dream THAT is! I have very little faith that he will ever be a keeper.

Mike

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2 hours ago, Flugel said:

Like him or laugh at him, the biggest thing I ever saw Mel Kiper get right was "beware the last minute risers that surface especially when the football stops being played." 

Which makes it kinda of weird that he's chosen to back Allen...

1 hour ago, Zombo said:

That's why I like Darnold. Which of those concerns is the easiest to fix at the pro level?

  • No one is getting taller.
  • Darnold needs some tinkering, some ball security improvement ... Ok ... Meet Hue Jackson, Todd Haley, Mike Zampese, Drew Stanton ... watch Tyrod Taylor, one of the best ball control QBs in the league for a season.
  • Darnold is a gunslinger with a gunslinger mentality ... NFL coaches' job to refine that without losing what you like about him in the first place. He's got a lot of Favre in him. Cool.

Some tinkering and ball security improvement?

Which is easier?

  • For Tyrod to show an understudy who is fundamentally sound, taller and more accurate than he is to play as a "short" QB in the NFL... or...
  • Fix a "Darnold"?

And don't get me started on Farve...

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

And ironically enough we need to pay attention that it is Kiper who has pushed Allen to the top. What an f'n joke!

I could have saved a few pixels had I turned the page...

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Tour had a pretty good idea with using #4 Denzel Ward at corner.  The last time someone had a similar idea in New Orleans they lasso'd themselves a Defensive Rookie of the Year.

Only "pretty good"? :(

;)

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1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Which makes it kinda of weird that he's chosen to back Allen...

 

Like I told Aggies, not if we factor in Mel Kiper is a huge Ratbird fan which makes anything he says about our biggest needs/BPA worthy of the deaf ears his conflict of interest deserves. Of course he wants us taking Josh Allen away from their temptations in Baltimore; especially after they already bit on Kyle Boller's 80 yard throw from 1 knee caliber arm strength despite his lack of accuracy. 

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2 hours ago, Zombo said:

That's why I like Darnold. Which of those concerns is the easiest to fix at the pro level?

No one is getting taller. No one's personality is going away or is getting a clean concussion chart. Accuracy is one of the hardest improvements to make when you jump to the pro level (I think we can all agree at some level on that ... my first foray in this thread, I assume that is the core of all this discussion).

Darnold needs some tinkering, some ball security improvement ... Ok ... Meet Hue Jackson, Todd Haley, Mike Zampese, Drew Stanton ... watch Tyrod Taylor, one of the best ball control QBs in the league for a season.

Darnold is a gunslinger with a gunslinger mentality ... NFL coaches' job to refine that without losing what you like about him in the first place. He's got a lot of Favre in him. Cool.

Personality: He's a dirt dawg ... teammates will love him.

Health: Pretty clean

Accuracy: 65% at Major program

Size: Tall and thick

In my opinion, he is the cleanest prospect, and, also in my opinion, the Browns are going to call his name #1.

We are breathing a lot of smoke right now, but by the day before the draft it will be written on the walls.   Best QB on the board.

Zombo

Fair assessment 

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2 hours ago, Flugel said:

 A) let's be honest about our overall talent.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                B)#4 Denzel Ward at corner.  The last time someone had a similar idea in New Orleans they lasso'd themselves a Defensive Rookie of the Year.

A) let's be honest..our previous Talent Evaluators parked at dollar general, hit the dollar tree, than walked into Walmart..For the first time in years with Dorsey, were hearing it's good to have logical disagreements on Player Evaluations..good. Makes Dorsey's job not easy coming from our best talent evaluation team in years..including Haley who holds the play call-sheet.(for now) B.) Saints had the best draft of 31 teams last season..Dorsey has the minds to do it with. But does Dorsey have the single trigger mind to either buy or sell over his own evaluations? We'll hopefully see what we really have in Dorsey ? usually once Haslam puts his foot in his mouth..  

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A.) Bullsh!t... three 1st-rounders in one draft ain't Walmart. And that we are hearing about disagreements is not comforting, just means we are leaking more.

B.) I find it curious that you are setting up excuses for a football guy "decider". This is Dorsey's draft... period. He's making every call regardless of how much he personally liked any individual player whose name he turned in. Haslam? Hasn't been a factor in the draft since 2014 that I'm aware of.

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5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I could have saved a few pixels had I turned the page... 

Only "pretty good"? :( #4 Denzel Ward at corner.

;)

The idea is growing on me Tour. Still slightly favoring Chubb at #4.  If he's off the board, no problem. Hey, OSU and Cleveland guy- what's not to like?  Actually Macedonia- Nordonia HS, same one a couple of my nieces went to. Also the Alma Mater of a guy who stopped by for a cup of coffee on the Browns one year- Jason Trusnic.

LOL, after said niece's wedding having lunch at the local watering hole before her reception- wife asked me why I was taking a picture of Trusnic's Miami jersey framed up on the wall.  Told her- you do realize Jason is Sarah's cousin? I didn't have the nerve to ask Jason at the reception for the low-down on the Richie Incognito thing Miami way.  

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2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

A.) Bullsh!t... three 1st-rounders in one draft ain't Walmart.Your speaking as a Sashi backer.I simply was not a Sashi fan. Of his plan nor of passing of the most key positions on the field to throw more darts to fix it.Sashi's biggest failure was what was found at Walmart.His Talent Evaluators..far different guys than a guy that can build up picks.Clearly Dorsey brought some along for the ride.  And that we are hearing about disagreements is not comforting, just means we are leaking more SMOKE. The best talent Evaluators are not coaches. Evaluators fighting Evaluators should win us some good players.Sure some doors are cracked open but someone is going to be right or wrong. The Giants reddick guy? 3 fans act just like him on each internet team in the NFL. As we found out from the other guy that had our Vet QB tagged as Tyrod Taylor?   

B.) I find it curious that you are setting up excuses for a football guy "decider". I find it most interesting that Hue Jackson is most peoples excuse.Though the HOF LT may find him as his best head coach This is Dorsey's draft... period. He's making every call regardless of how much he personally liked any individual player whose name he turned in.Seems Dorsey is having a blast with media that feeds fans BS building up to the draft.He certainly took on a challenge for a once fired GM.. Haslam? Hasn't been a factor in the draft since 2014 that I'm aware of.no need to expand on this guy..yes, he pays the bills.But not to Evaluate a players talent..

it's a opinion board^^^. Judge for yourselves..from Dec.   https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/is-dorsey-right-examining-whether-browns-got-any-real-players-under-sashi-brown/   Tetter,Zeitler,J.Collins sure, nice work Sash.. Sure enough, 12 days from today, we'll be here with opinions if Dorsey was right in day 1..

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Yes... it's an opinion board and I was giving mine.

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Second interview had the same concerns about completion % that many of us have and also said Rosen is the most ready for the NFL right now.

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20 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Second interview had the same concerns about completion % that many of us have and also said Rosen is the most ready for the NFL right now.

As long as he is ready to rock and roll a year or two from now. 

This might be the most second guessed QB draft in NFL history. 

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12 hours ago, mjp28 said:

This might be the most second guessed QB draft in NFL history. 

Goff-Wentz would give it a run for its money.

Plus more QBs this year, so more "guessed-es"...

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23 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

 

And don't get me started on Farve...

I’m more than a little intrigued by this sentence....

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8 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

I’m more than a little intrigued by this sentence....

200 wins, 500 Tds, 70,000 yards, 2 Super Bowls, 1 Ring, great arm, mad scrambling ability, exciting player, loved by teammates ... was he going to say something bad?

636061234011652639-HOF-Farve-bunny-ears.

Zombo

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30 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Goff-Wentz would give it a run for its money.

Plus more QBs this year, so more "guessed-es"...

I've seen at least 5 of this year's QB class ranked the #1 pick by various prognosticators, check out this little tidbit from SB NATION, wide but not deep?

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/5/17046116/2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-josh-allen-sam-darnold-projections-hype

There’s a new approach to NFL QB projections — and the 2018 draft class is in trouble

Looking for a quarterback’s NFL ceiling? Look no further than college stats.

By Bill Connelly@SBN_BillC  Apr 5, 2018, 9:00am EDT

 

Screenshot_2018-04-16-11-43-21.png

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3 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

I've seen at least 5 of this year's QB class ranked the #1 pick by various prognosticators, check out this little tidbit from SB NATION, wide but not deep?

 

Screenshot_2018-04-16-11-43-21.png

Lamar Jackson and Josh Rosen most closely compares to Brandon Weeden?  That is a fresh take.   And Allen compared to Tebow?  Where does that come from?

Sam Darnold on par with Colt McCoy?   Sadly....that actually sounds completely plausible.

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3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Lamar Jackson and Josh Rosen most closely compares to Brandon Weeden?  That is a fresh take.   And Allen compared to Tebow?  Where does that come from?

Sam Darnold on par with Colt McCoy?   Sadly....that actually sounds completely plausible.

It's a bunch of numbers just shifted around to give a new look on this year's QB free for all but there are some unusual results.

Allen compares with Kizer? Tools maybe. What a year!

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27 minutes ago, Zombo said:

200 wins, 500 Tds, 70,000 yards, 2 Super Bowls, 1 Ring, great arm, mad scrambling ability, exciting player, loved by teammates ... was he going to say something bad?

Never stopped me before...

By far Favre cost the Pack more Super Bowls than he won them. The only one they won when he was there was because Reggie White explained things to him so even Brett could understand it.

Brett Favre is the worst excuse for a QB in the HoF.

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11 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Never stopped me before...

By far Favre cost the Pack more Super Bowls than he won them. The only one they won when he was there was because Reggie White explained things to him so even Brett could understand it.

Brett Favre is the worst excuse for a QB in the HoF.

But John Madden loved Brett Farve, that has to count for something, eh?

Farve was exciting!

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19 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Never stopped me before...

By far Favre cost the Pack more Super Bowls than he won them. The only one they won when he was there was because Reggie White explained things to him so even Brett could understand it.

Brett Favre is the worst excuse for a QB in the HoF.

An unconventional opinion that I love it 

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44 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Never stopped me before...

By far Favre cost the Pack more Super Bowls than he won them. The only one they won when he was there was because Reggie White explained things to him so even Brett could understand it.

Brett Favre is the worst excuse for a QB in the HoF.

Wow.

He is my favorite non-Browns QB of all time.

Zombo

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Never stopped me before...

By far Favre cost the Pack more Super Bowls than he won them. The only one they won when he was there was because Reggie White explained things to him so even Brett could understand it.

Brett Favre is the worst excuse for a QB in the HoF.

Only if you're counting SB wins VS stats. Brady will be the unquestioned GOAT by that yardstick. BTW I have to disagree about Farve being the worst excuse (I looked) Y A Tittle.  :)   

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And one of those stats is career INTs where Favre is far and away #1 with 336... and has a 59 INT cushion on #2.

1 hour ago, Zombo said:

Wow.

He is my favorite non-Browns QB of all time.

Zombo

Not like we haven't discussed this before.

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