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Updating the Depth Chart


Zombo

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Collins is likely the LB starter who loses at musical chairs.. Injury plus listless play before the injury suggests he's on a short leash this season

35.9 last season on PFF, not a typo

Here's an example game where PFF calls him out [and the other LB's] for terrible play.

Annual numbers were Schobert 77.4, Kirksey 59.6.  I wonder if our DB's were truly "the problem" last season or if significant LB coverage improvement would be the biggest needed increase..

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3 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Collins is likely the LB starter who loses at musical chairs.. Injury plus listless play before the injury suggests he's on a short leash this season

35.9 last season on PFF, not a typo

That was my initial thought ... but then I look at what they are paying guys, and what their ceilings are ...

Just don't think you can bench Kirksey he's a 110% guy who actually makes plays. I think he fits in the middle, gives us three guys that can cover. Schobert is a baller, but limited in speed, I think we will utilize all four linebackers and he'll have an important role, but we start the game with the best athletes on the field. Collins is the most talented of the four and a real playmaker when healthy. I think this signing hedges against him being injured ... but if he is healthy he is on the field.

Zombo

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However, Schobert is the only one of the three who got the job done to any extent last season.

Schobert had the best 3-cone of any LB his year at the combine, and Schobert is orders of magnitude better in run D than either one. He's not limited.. he also dropped 20 (maybe 30) pounds from his UW weight to have more speed/agility.

 

Sure, Collins may look the best without shirts or pads or pants on, but that doesn't mean he translates "athleticism" into "ability to play the game of football as defined by his coaches"

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16 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

However, Schobert is the only one of the three who got the job done to any extent last season.

Schobert had the best 3-cone of any LB his year at the combine, and Schobert is orders of magnitude better in run D than either one. He's not limited.

 

Sure, Collins may look the best without shirts or pads or pants on, but that doesn't mean he translates "athleticism" into "ability to play the game of football as defined by his coaches"

Well, there's cone drills and then there is sacks, hurries, forced fumbles and interceptions ... Collins has a knack for those, and Gregg Williams spends his week trying to find ways to get those. I'm just seeing Schobert as the fourth LB if everyone is healthy. Collins can be a wrecking crew when healthy. We'll see. Again, just happy to have four quality LBs, it wasn't long ago we never had more than one or two.

Zombo

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22 hours ago, Zombo said:

Well, there's cone drills and then there is sacks, hurries, forced fumbles and interceptions ... Collins has a knack for those, and Gregg Williams spends his week trying to find ways to get those. I'm just seeing Schobert as the fourth LB if everyone is healthy. Collins can be a wrecking crew when healthy. We'll see. Again, just happy to have four quality LBs, it wasn't long ago we never had more than one or two.

Zombo

Finally defensive depth this year. With a little help by the O to keep 'em off the field, we should be far better.

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On 6/5/2018 at 11:27 AM, Unsympathetic said:

Here's an example game where PFF calls him out [and the other LB's] for terrible play.                                                                                                                                                                                                             I wonder if our DB's were truly "the problem" last season or if significant LB coverage improvement would be the biggest needed increase..

Good Post. Dorsey bought the teams talent needed upgraded from tape & coaches. But when you read stuff like your link? The Coaches job is to also design/adjust to take something away? The Flacco stat of 17 of 17 and the ageless Ben Watson hit on all 7 targets worries me more than Hue's win loss record next season. Williams can't keep dialing up a losing blitz either. 

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Kindred is a stud. 

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On 6/5/2018 at 11:27 AM, Unsympathetic said:

Collins is likely the LB starter who loses at musical chairs.. Injury plus listless play before the injury suggests he's on a short leash this season

35.9 last season on PFF, not a typo

Here's an example game where PFF calls him out [and the other LB's] for terrible play.

Annual numbers were Schobert 77.4, Kirksey 59.6.  I wonder if our DB's were truly "the problem" last season or if significant LB coverage improvement would be the biggest needed increase..

I like PFF too; but it doesn't always cater to unique alignments/schemes. Let's see what our LBers look like when we're not lining 1 of our starting Safeties up in Toronto every play. 

Last year someone was trying to tell me Schobert was dreadful in coverage. I asked him if he had any idea how easy it is to cover both hook zones with a much deeper zone transition than other MLBs have (due to where the Safety behind is lined up) all during Schobert's 1st year playing MLB.  Our other LBs had the flats and extended grey areas/zone transitions as well.  As a unit, they probably felt like a hockey team defending a power play man-down all game.  There's a lot of reasons we'll have brand new starters at FS, SS, RCB, and LCB but our LB Corps isn't 1 of them. 

Once Gregg Williams feels like he has the sufficient upgrades at Corner on the field, I think you'll see our LBers feeling far less taxed in coverage or feeling compelled to cheat back on perceived passing downs in particular.  There was a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul last year ending with Paul going on Food Stamps.

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Updated Post- MiniCamp

I gotta keep an extra Offensive Lineman with Stephenson starting the season suspended, so I'm going to give the spot to the UDFA Harrison and I'll put Stephenson in RED for suspended. "Long" Rod Johnson has an improved shot now as well. We'll see what Greg Robinson has in the tank ... wild card, could end up starting or not make it through camp.

Even though they are different styles, I have Higgins and Ricardo in competition for the last WR spot, and for now I'm leaving Higgins out, even though I think he is more reliable, because I think Janis makes the team as a special teamer and can fill that backup possession receiver role to Landry which makes Higgins more expendable. A lot rides on Ratley, whether he contributes or becomes a guy we can stash on IR for a year with an "injury".

Not sure about Orchard versus Burgess for my 6th linebacker, but I'm leaning toward Orchard because he can swing to DE and Avery should be able to do what Burgess did.

Right now I see one of the cornerbacks dueling as the fourth safety ... probably Calhoun. But depending on injuries and special teams needs, I think CB Jordan and Safeties Currie and Smith all have a roster shot.

QB: Taylor, Mayfield, Stanton

FB Vitale, Williams

RB Hyde, ChubbDuke (3rd down),  Dayes

WR1 Gordon, Callaway, Ricardo, Ratley

WR2 Landry (Slot), Coleman, Janis, Higgins 

TE Njoku, Fells(Blocking)Devalve

LT Coleman, Corbett, Johnson, Robinson

LG Bitonio, Drango

C Tretter, Reiter

RG Zeitler, Fabiano

RT HubbardStephenson, Harrison

 

DE Garrett (edge), C. Smith,

DT Coley, Brantley

DT Ogunjobi, Meder, Thompson

DE Ogbah,  C. Thomas, Nassib

SLB Collins, OrchardBurgess

MLB  Schobert, Avery

WLB Kirksey/Kendricks,  Grace

CB Ward Mitchell, S. Thomas, Wilson, 

CB Carrie (Nickel), Gaines, Boddy-Calhoun, Jordan

SS Peppers, Kindred, Smith

FS Randall,  Currie

 

K Gonzalez

P Colquitt, Vogel

LS Hughlett

KR Calloway, Dayes

PR Calloway, Peppers

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Wow, this just in, Rod Johnson out, Greg Robinson in ... Thanks Darren.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Browns-sign-OL-Greg-Robinson/c7e5e164-7e09-4c01-917d-208be9888204

I'll put Robby (former #2 overall) in there as they guy most ready to pounce on Stephenson's job (updated above)

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3 hours ago, Zombo said:

Wow, this just in, Rod Johnson out, Greg Robinson in ... Thanks Darren.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Browns-sign-OL-Greg-Robinson/c7e5e164-7e09-4c01-917d-208be9888204

I'll put Robby (former #2 overall) in there as they guy most ready to pounce on Stephenson's job (updated above)

By out, do you mean cut? (OK, never mind...I see by the article that he was waived)

And wasn't Robinson like a Top 5 overall pick once that basically turned out a bust?   How old is he?

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18 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

By out, do you mean cut? (OK, never mind...I see by the article that he was waived)

And wasn't Robinson like a Top 5 overall pick once that basically turned out a bust?   How old is he?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Robinson_(offensive_tackle)

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hmm....during preseason he played JT's LT position.  He played one game quite well....then the next quite lousy.  (that might have been 2 years ago)

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

They say "In"=Vitale/Ratley/Janis/Drango/Reiter/Trent Thompson/Meder/Jermaine Grace?(who)/James Burgess,Simeon Thomas/BBC..                                                                                                          Leaving these as Out on bubble= Backs-Dayes/Hilliard/M.Williams..//WR-Louis/Higgins..//OL-Greg Robinson/Des Harrison/Fabiano..//DE-Naz,Orchard..//CB-Mike Jordan..Looking like a 11 on 11 man race to bottom of roster? Injuries always play a factor(PuP). PS rules. And it's safe to say Dorsey's not done digging.. but for now, give me Naz,Robinson,Higgins=IN..Thompson,Ratley= PS. Good-Bye LB Jermaine Grace? but i'll give ya a camp look  

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6 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Just in case nobody has posted this yet for what it's worth...

 

Mock Browns Depth Chart: July 20

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/ContentGallery/Mock-Cleveland-Browns-Depth-Chart-July-20-118261231/

Shared from my Google feed

WSS

All of that sounds about right.

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https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/7/22/17566758/projecting-the-cleveland-browns-53-man-roster-ez-likes-sunday-morning-7-22-18-football-hue-dorsey

This dude offers his take. Not much difference. He thinks Harrison makes the cut on the OL, as well as Bello as a LB. Ratley does not, and a few other minor differences. He’s also better at math when it comes to adding offensive and defensive tackles than the 247 Sports guy.

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Pre Training Camp Depth Chart ... Guys in Bold are projected to make the team. But as we know, there will be plenty of surprises.

QB: Taylor, Mayfield, Stanton

FB Vitale, Williams

RB Hyde, ChubbDuke (3rd down),  Dayes

WR1 Gordon, Callaway, Ricardo, Ratley

WR2 Landry (Slot), Coleman, Janis, Higgins 

TE Njoku, Fells(Blocking)Devalve

LT Coleman, Corbett, Robinson

LG Bitonio, Drango

C Tretter, Reiter

RG Zeitler, Fabiano

RT HubbardHarrison

 

DE Garrett (edge), C. Smith,

DT Coley, Brantley

DT Ogunjobi, Meder, Thompson

DE Ogbah,  C. Thomas, Nassib

SLB Collins, OrchardBurgess

MLB  Schobert, Avery

WLB Kirksey/Kendricks,  Grace

CB Ward Mitchell, S. Thomas, Wilson, 

CB Carrie (Nickel), Gaines, Boddy-Calhoun, Jordan

SS Peppers, Kindred, Smith

FS Randall,  Currie

 

K Gonzalez

P Colquitt, Vogel

LS Hughlett

KR Calloway, Dayes

PR Calloway, Peppers

 

Comments:

WR: Janis looks to make the team as a special teamer and spot receiver, so unless they shelve Ratley for a year with an injury, I had to choose between Hollywood and Ricardo, and I took Ricardo because he seems a tad more versatile. In truth, both could lose their jobs if another rookie shines or if we only keep six.

OL : As I have said all along, Reiter seems like a luxury as a backup center, he's probably on thin ice and Fabiano probably has a real shot

DE/LB Nassib and Orchard seem like the odd guys out of the rotation and that makes them expendable. Right now I have Orchard clinging on as a 6th LB and Nassib as a 5th DE, but don't be surprised if either, or both, is moved.

DB I am going with 6 CBs and three S for now, with one of the corners becoming a backup at safety. That said, Currie and Smith have real shots to make the team as safeties, with Boddy-Calhoun being moved or one of those aforementioned DEs gone.

It'll be interesteing to watch.

Starting Battles:

RB: Hyde vs. Chubb Prediction: Hyde holds on. But not for the whole season.

LT: Coleman, Corbett, Drango Prediction: I'm still liking Corbett, although it seems there is a real effort to get Coleman ready.

DT: Coley Ogun and Brantly ... I'm going to stick with Coley and Ogun, but Brantley will be hard to keep off the field.

Weakside LB: Kendricks/Kirksey. I think all four "starting" LBs will see significant time, Kirksey will play more run downs and Kendricks more passing, and sometimes they will slide between the tackles, I see Williams utilizing these two plus Collins and Schobert in a lot of different looks.

SS Peppers/Kindred. Hopefully Peppers takes the next step and beats out the viable Kindred or it is another costly 1st round pick. Betting on Peppers.

P Colquitt has real challenge from Vogel,  but I think he holds him off.

Zombo

 

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Louis out for the year, Hollywood Higgins back on my squad!

QB: Taylor, Mayfield, Stanton

FB Vitale, Williams

RB Hyde, ChubbDuke (3rd down),  Dayes

WR1 Gordon, Callaway, Ratley

WR2 Landry (Slot), Coleman, Janis, Higgins 

TE Njoku, Fells(Blocking)Devalve

LT Coleman, Corbett, Robinson

LG Bitonio, Drango

C Tretter, Reiter

RG Zeitler, Fabiano

RT HubbardHarrison

 

DE Garrett (edge), C. Smith,

DT Coley, Brantley

DT Ogunjobi, Meder, Thompson

DE Ogbah,  C. Thomas, Nassib

SLB Collins, OrchardBurgess

MLB  Schobert, Avery

WLB Kirksey/Kendricks,  Grace

CB Ward Mitchell, S. Thomas, Wilson, 

CB Carrie (Nickel), Gaines, Boddy-Calhoun, Jordan

SS Peppers, Kindred, Smith

FS Randall,  Currie

 

K Gonzalez

P Colquitt, Vogel

LS Hughlett

KR Calloway, Dayes

PR Calloway, Peppers

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