Greg Cosell Breaks Down Top 2018 QBs

[gumby73]

14 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either.  

yea but watching a pair of Jacks.. in Hamm & Lambert made Sipe look small..Lambert would make anybody nervous in full stride at your hyde.. 

[Mark O]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

does anybody not know that Brian Sipe was 6'1", 195 lbs?

 

Yeah...and the offensive line and defensive line guys were 250 pounds.   Maybe we should draft some linemen that are that small since it worked 35 years ago. 

[calfoxwc]

yet Russel Wilson is 5'11", 215.

Drew Brees - 6', 209.

Tyrod Taylor – Buffalo Bills – 6'1"

Aaron Rodgers – Green Bay Packers – 6'2" 

Brian Hoyer – Houston Texans – 6'2"

Andy Dalton – Cincinnati Bengals – 6'2" 

They are still in the NFL, not players from 35 years ago.

[Dutch Oven]

Your list is two anomalies - Wilson and Brees, a mediocre starter in Taylor, and three guys that are an inch taller and probably 20-30 lbs heavier than Sipe, two inches taller than Mayfield. 

[Westside Steve]

On 3/12/2018 at 3:38 PM, hoorta said:

I've always had Rosen in my top 3. To have him as our #1 in the draft?  It's going to seriously depend how much weight Dorsey & Company put on his injury history. Those two concussions scare me. Josh is also the least mobile compared to Darnold and Mayfield- he's going to get hit a lot in the pros. I've mentioned he has a tennis player build, do we take him at #1 and watch him turn into another Sam Bradford, great when he's healthy- except he never is?   

After listening to Cosell, I'm firming up my ranking #1 Mayfield, #2 Darnold, #3 Rosen. Just no to Allen and Jackson. 

Right now that's the way I'm leaving. Maybe swap Rosen and Darnold I worry that Rosen is skinny and I don't particularly like the rumors of his attitude but...

My worry about Sam his watching Ohio State hand him his a$$.

WSS

[LogicIsForSquares]

11 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Right now that's the way I'm leaving. Maybe swap Rosen and Darnold I worry that Rosen is skinny and I don't particularly like the rumors of his attitude but...

My worry about Sam his watching Ohio State hand him his a$$.

WSS

Eh it is a team game. Darnold was getting murdered all game. Fournette looked like trash against Alabama. He seems to be doing o.k. for himself. 

[jiggins7919]

On 3/12/2018 at 8:26 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

Allen will be "The Big Flop". He just can't make wide open passes. And the reason he won't "thread the needle" is because he will not throw those, he'll run.

I really do not want to be trading off a first rounder in 2019 because he was near identical to Sir Kaiser.

I completely agree.  The only way Allen will be good (in my mind) is if he goes to a good team that allows him to really sit and learn a while.  But I have to be honest, a guy throwing a ball very hard and far doesn't mean squat to me.  I want the guy who can make quick decisions, throw it to someone IN STRIDE, NOT turn it over, someone who loves football, and a guy who is revered by his teammates.  Oh look, that sounds like Baker Mayfield!  Cosell seems to really like him, too.  

[Bigalow80]

I got the impression he really likes Darnold the most, followed by mayfield. I'll take an accurate passer all day long over a cannon. At one point does the nfl realize that physical attributes are not the end all, be all of nfl qbs? I think this is why Darnold is the safest bet. He's big, accurate for the most part, mobile, and has great character...He checks all the boxes. He's also 20 years old! He needs a lot of work on protecting the football, his footwork inside the pocket, and a tweak to his mechanics (not a tim tebow type fix, but a little would help. he still gets the ball out fast and his fumbles were rarely due to his wind up but more to not protecting the ball). The OSU game is brought up a lot, he had his turnovers (one really bad pick) but it was clear that his offensive line was NO MATCH for that OSU defense. You can count on one hand how many "clean" pockets he had. I'm not saying it wasn't an eye raiser when I saw it, but he made plays and for the most part and made that more of a game than it should have been. Plus, with TT on-board, he can take time to develop and learn. A luxury Kizer never had.

[The Gipper]

16 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Well, I believe we are looking at Mayfield or Allen. Allen has a sky high upside, and will have plenty of time to

Actually....I believe those are the two guys we have eliminated from consideration.

It will be Darnold or Rosen

get his footwork perfected. And, Mayfield will have time to learn the game. All this talk about Mayfield's height -

does anybody not know that Brian Sipe was 6'1", 195 lbs?

Last year, there were 7 games, maybe 8, that they could have won with a field goal or a TD.

flip the talent switch hugely, add a very good OC, and watch the NFL be shocked at the difference.

 

[The Gipper]

15 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either.  

Actually...yes, he did.   He had mean Joe Greene....Jack Lambert, Robert Brazile, Ted Hendricks....Jack Ham, Andre Tippet...and others...those just in the AFC. 

[SD_Tom]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Actually...yes, he did.   He had mean Joe Greene....Jack Lambert, Robert Brazile, Ted Hendricks....Jack Ham, Andre Tippet...and others...those just in the AFC. 

Duly noted.  But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be.  

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Duly noted.  But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be.  

No...they weren't.   The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL.

DEs, MLBs,  OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today. 

It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster.  ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier. 

JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size:  6'4  280.  Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim:    6'5 275.

But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330.  Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275.  But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them. 

I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed.   I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr. 

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Actually....I believe those are the two guys we have eliminated from consideration.

It will be Darnold or Rosen

well. one of us is looking at it bass-ackwards, and you are the judge. lol

  To sign the ol, I think it means:

1. Not a great draft for ot at all. Don't want to draft OG's if they can help it.

2. They really want to run the ball and protect on qb rollouts .

3. They signed Taylor - a rollout qb, who really is great at ball security...and they have the OC that likes to see a qb be mobile.

So, I think it isn't rosen on the mobility, and I think it isn't darnold now, because of the ball security.

We'll see how it goes.

 

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

well. one of us is looking at it bass-ackwards, and you are the judge. lol

Yes...one of us is.

  To sign the ol, I think it means:

1. Not a great draft for ot at all. Don't want to draft OG's if they can help it.

What has that got to do with which QB they would take?

2. They really want to run the ball and protect on qb rollouts .

What has that got to do with which QB they would take?

3. They signed Taylor - a rollout qb, who really is great at ball security...and they have the OC that likes to see a qb be mobile.

So, I think it isn't rosen on the mobility, and I think it isn't darnold now, because of the ball security.

Yet....complete lack of accuracy trumps all that.  

We'll see how it goes.

Its OK...you are entitled to be wrong.  Based on all evidence of your presence on these boards, you usually are....but that is another matter.

 

 

[SD_Tom]

36 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

No...they weren't.   The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL.

DEs, MLBs,  OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today. 

It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster.  ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier. 

JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size:  6'4  280.  Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim:    6'5 275.

But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330.  Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275.  But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them. 

I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed.   I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr. 

There definitely weren't QB's like big Ben or Deshaun Watson, or Carson Wentz back then.  But I guess you can only get so much bigger and faster within a position like LB and lineman.   Seems like the TEs are much different now because of all the basketball players coming into the league.  Wr seem way bigger now.  

I'm in my early 40's,  so that was before my time.  

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, SD_Tom said:

There definitely weren't QB's like big Ben or Deshaun Watson, or Carson Wentz back then.  But I guess you can only get so much bigger and faster within a position like LB and lineman.   Seems like the TEs are much different now because of all the basketball players coming into the league.  Wr seem way bigger now.  

I'm in my early 40's,  so that was before my time.  

  I don't think DeShaun Watson is  all that big. is he?   But certainly there were some big QBs.  Big enough.   Bradshaw was 6'3.  Fouts 6'3. Stabler was 6'3.   Staubach was 6'3.   Even bad QBs could be that big:  Mike Phipps was 6'3. 

But many were between 6'0 and 6'2.  Namath, Greise, Starr, Tarkenton, Unitas,  Dawson, Jurgenson, 

So...like I said,  QBs have gotten taller on average. probably by about an inch.   Average today may be 6'3.  Some shorter, some taller.  There were  a couple of tall guys in the 60s/70s:    Sonny Gibbs was 6'7...but he only lasted like one year with the Lions.

Frank Patrick played from 1970-1972....but made no starts.  

So....QBs that tall then were no good......and that has not really changed, has it?    Dan McGwire  6'8   no good.   Osweiler, Lynch, Ryan Mallet.....each 6'7 suck.

I think, perhaps, the ONLY good QB over like 6'5 has been the 6'6 Joe Flacco.   Derek Anderson is 6'6....but he had only 1 good year.  Marc Wilson was not too bad....but not to good either.    Jamarcus Russell....Scott Mitchell?   Surely not.

So, even now it seems there is a maximum of generally 6'5 on the efficacy of QBs.

[SD_Tom]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

  I don't think DeShaun Watson is  all that big. is he?   But certainly there were some big QBs.  Big enough.   Bradshaw was 6'3.  Fouts 6'3. Stabler was 6'3.   Staubach was 6'3.   Even bad QBs could be that big:  Mike Phipps was 6'3. 

But many were between 6'0 and 6'2.  Namath, Greise, Starr, Tarkenton, Unitas,  Dawson, Jurgenson, 

So...like I said,  QBs have gotten taller on average. probably by about an inch.   Average today may be 6'3.  Some shorter, some taller.  There were  a couple of tall guys in the 60s/70s:    Sonny Gibbs was 6'7...but he only lasted like one year with the Lions.

Frank Patrick played from 1970-1972....but made no starts.  

So....QBs that tall then were no good......and that has not really changed, has it?    Dan McGwire  6'8   no good.   Osweiler, Lynch, Ryan Mallet.....each 6'7 suck.

I think, perhaps, the ONLY good QB over like 6'5 has been the 6'6 Joe Flacco.   Derek Anderson is 6'6....but he had only 1 good year.  Marc Wilson was not too bad....but not to good either.    Jamarcus Russell....Scott Mitchell?   Surely not.

So, even now it seems there is a maximum of generally 6'5 on the efficacy of QBs.

Watson is 6'3, but I meant most QB's didn't have speed/athletic ability like that.   Or at least it's more common now. 

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Watson is 6'3, but I meant most QB's didn't have speed/athletic ability like that.   Or at least it's more common now. 

What do you mean....he is just the Black Tarkenton, remember?   With all of Tarkenton's speed and athleticism?    (actually...Tark DID have a lot of speed and athleticism)

[SD_Tom]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

What do you mean....he is just the Black Tarkenton, remember?   With all of Tarkenton's speed and athleticism?    (actually...Tark DID have a lot of speed and athleticism)

don't forget his low velocity noodle arm. 

[The Gipper]

14 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

don't forget his low velocity noodle arm. 

It wasn't such a noodle are that he couldn't get the following numbers over 18 years out of it:

Passing

 

 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					246	239	124-109-6	3686	6467	57.0	47003	342	5.3	266	4.1	89	7.3	6.5	12.8	191.1	80.4	274	2337	6.63	5.87	4.1	29	33	236
13 yrs		MIN			177	170	91-73-6	2635	4569	57.7	33098	239	5.2	194	4.2	89	7.2	6.4	12.6	187.0	80.1	175	1567	5.96	5.28	6.2	19	19	161
5 yrs		NYG			69	69	33-36-0	1051	1898	55.4	13905	103	5.4	72	3.8	84	7.3	6.7	13.2	201.5	81.0	99	770	5.84	5.23	7.7	10	14	75
1961	21	MIN	QB	10	14	10	2-8-0	157	280	56.1	1997	18	6.4	17	6.1	71	7.1	5.7	12.7	142.6	74.7								11
1962	22	MIN	QB	10	14	14	2-11-1	163	329	49.5	2595	22	6.7	25	7.6	89	7.9	5.8	15.9	185.4	66.9								10
1963	23	MIN	QB	10	14	13	4-8-1	170	297	57.2	2311	15	5.1	15	5.1	67	7.8	6.5	13.6	165.1	78.0						2	2	10
1964*	24	MIN	QB	10	14	14	8-5-1	171	306	55.9	2506	22	7.2	11	3.6	64	8.2	8.0	14.7	179.0	91.8						3	3	14
1965*	25	MIN	QB	10	14	14	7-7-0	171	329	52.0	2609	19	5.8	11	3.3	72	7.9	7.6	15.3	186.4	83.8						2	2	15
1966	26	MIN	QB	10	14	12	4-7-1	192	358	53.6	2561	17	4.7	16	4.5	68	7.2	6.1	13.3	182.9	73.8						2	1	12
1967*	27	NYG	QB	10	14	14	7-7-0	204	377	54.1	3088	29	7.7	19	5.0	70	8.2	7.5	15.1	220.6	85.9						2	2	19
1968*	28	NYG	QB	10	14	14	7-7-0	182	337	54.0	2555	21	6.2	12	3.6	84	7.6	7.2	14.0	182.5	84.6						1	2	16
1969*	29	NYG	QB	10	14	14	6-8-0	220	409	53.8	2918	23	5.6	8	2.0	65	7.1	7.4	13.3	208.4	87.2	36	289	5.91	6.13	8.1	4	4	14
1970*	30	NYG	QB	10	14	14	9-5-0	219	389	56.3	2777	19	4.9	12	3.1	59	7.1	6.7	12.7	198.4	82.2	36	249	5.95	5.57	8.5	2	5	17
1971	31	NYG	QB	10	13	13	4-9-0	226	386	58.5	2567	11	2.8	21	5.4	81	6.7	4.8	11.4	197.5	65.4	27	232	5.65	3.90	6.5	1	1	9
1972	32	MIN	QB	10	14	14	7-7-0	215	378	56.9	2651	18	4.8	13	3.4	76	7.0	6.4	12.3	189.4	80.2	26	203	6.06	5.50	6.4	4	3	12
1973	33	MIN	QB	10	14	14	12-2-0	169	274	61.7	2113	15	5.5	7	2.6	54	7.7	7.7	12.5	150.9	93.2	31	270	6.04	5.99	10.2			14
1974*	34	MIN	QB	10	13	13	9-4-0	199	351	56.7	2598	17	4.8	12	3.4	80	7.4	6.8	13.1	199.8	82.1	17	142	6.67	6.13	4.6	1	1	15
1975*+	35	MIN	QB	10	14	14	12-2-0	273	425	64.2	2994	25	5.9	13	3.1	46	7.0	6.8	11.0	213.9	91.8	27	245	6.08	5.89	6.0	1	1	16
1976*	36	MIN	QB	10	13	13	10-2-1	255	412	61.9	2961	17	4.1	8	1.9	56	7.2	7.1	11.6	227.8	89.3	25	221	6.27	6.22	5.7	1	3	14
1977	37	MIN	QB	10	9	9	6-3-0	155	258	60.1	1734	9	3.5	14	5.4	59	6.7	5.0	11.2	192.7	69.2	22	232	5.36	3.76	7.9	1	2	7
1978	38	MIN	QB	10	16	16	8-7-1	345	572	60.3	3468	25	4.4	32	5.6	58	6.1	4.4	10.1	216.8	68.9	27	254	5.37	3.80	4.5	2	1	11

 

Good enough for 11th all time in yards  (he played under the OLD rules....and was the all time leader for a number of years)

And 6th all time in TD passes.

[calfoxwc]

28 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

blah blah sissy great big ego, blah, judge pudge, blah.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-bradley-chubb-tops-priscos-pre-combine-board/

2018 NFL Draft Prospect Rankings: Bradley Chubb tops Prisco's pre-combine board

The top-ranked quarterback is Wyoming's Josh Allen at No. 5 with UCLA's Josh Rosen right behind at No. 6. USC's Sam Darnold is 10th with Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield at No. 15. Two other quarterbacks -- Oklahoma State's Mason Rudolph and Louisville's Lamar Jackson -- just missed the top 32. 

***************************************************************************

    IOW, Gipper , it's easy to be wrong. Most all of us will be. That's the way it goes. You just think you are always right. A LOT of "experts" are going to be wrong, that is how it is every year. If Denver gets Allen, he will go on to be ELWAY 2.0.

 

[SD_Tom]

51 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

It wasn't such a noodle are that he couldn't get the following numbers over 18 years out of it:

Passing

 

 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					246	239	124-109-6	3686	6467	57.0	47003	342	5.3	266	4.1	89	7.3	6.5	12.8	191.1	80.4	274	2337	6.63	5.87	4.1	29	33	236
13 yrs		MIN			177	170	91-73-6	2635	4569	57.7	33098	239	5.2	194	4.2	89	7.2	6.4	12.6	187.0	80.1	175	1567	5.96	5.28	6.2	19	19	161
5 yrs		NYG			69	69	33-36-0	1051	1898	55.4	13905	103	5.4	72	3.8	84	7.3	6.7	13.2	201.5	81.0	99	770	5.84	5.23	7.7	10	14	75
1961	21	MIN	QB	10	14	10	2-8-0	157	280	56.1	1997	18	6.4	17	6.1	71	7.1	5.7	12.7	142.6	74.7								11
1962	22	MIN	QB	10	14	14	2-11-1	163	329	49.5	2595	22	6.7	25	7.6	89	7.9	5.8	15.9	185.4	66.9								10
1963	23	MIN	QB	10	14	13	4-8-1	170	297	57.2	2311	15	5.1	15	5.1	67	7.8	6.5	13.6	165.1	78.0						2	2	10
1964*	24	MIN	QB	10	14	14	8-5-1	171	306	55.9	2506	22	7.2	11	3.6	64	8.2	8.0	14.7	179.0	91.8						3	3	14
1965*	25	MIN	QB	10	14	14	7-7-0	171	329	52.0	2609	19	5.8	11	3.3	72	7.9	7.6	15.3	186.4	83.8						2	2	15
1966	26	MIN	QB	10	14	12	4-7-1	192	358	53.6	2561	17	4.7	16	4.5	68	7.2	6.1	13.3	182.9	73.8						2	1	12
1967*	27	NYG	QB	10	14	14	7-7-0	204	377	54.1	3088	29	7.7	19	5.0	70	8.2	7.5	15.1	220.6	85.9						2	2	19
1968*	28	NYG	QB	10	14	14	7-7-0	182	337	54.0	2555	21	6.2	12	3.6	84	7.6	7.2	14.0	182.5	84.6						1	2	16
1969*	29	NYG	QB	10	14	14	6-8-0	220	409	53.8	2918	23	5.6	8	2.0	65	7.1	7.4	13.3	208.4	87.2	36	289	5.91	6.13	8.1	4	4	14
1970*	30	NYG	QB	10	14	14	9-5-0	219	389	56.3	2777	19	4.9	12	3.1	59	7.1	6.7	12.7	198.4	82.2	36	249	5.95	5.57	8.5	2	5	17
1971	31	NYG	QB	10	13	13	4-9-0	226	386	58.5	2567	11	2.8	21	5.4	81	6.7	4.8	11.4	197.5	65.4	27	232	5.65	3.90	6.5	1	1	9
1972	32	MIN	QB	10	14	14	7-7-0	215	378	56.9	2651	18	4.8	13	3.4	76	7.0	6.4	12.3	189.4	80.2	26	203	6.06	5.50	6.4	4	3	12
1973	33	MIN	QB	10	14	14	12-2-0	169	274	61.7	2113	15	5.5	7	2.6	54	7.7	7.7	12.5	150.9	93.2	31	270	6.04	5.99	10.2			14
1974*	34	MIN	QB	10	13	13	9-4-0	199	351	56.7	2598	17	4.8	12	3.4	80	7.4	6.8	13.1	199.8	82.1	17	142	6.67	6.13	4.6	1	1	15
1975*+	35	MIN	QB	10	14	14	12-2-0	273	425	64.2	2994	25	5.9	13	3.1	46	7.0	6.8	11.0	213.9	91.8	27	245	6.08	5.89	6.0	1	1	16
1976*	36	MIN	QB	10	13	13	10-2-1	255	412	61.9	2961	17	4.1	8	1.9	56	7.2	7.1	11.6	227.8	89.3	25	221	6.27	6.22	5.7	1	3	14
1977	37	MIN	QB	10	9	9	6-3-0	155	258	60.1	1734	9	3.5	14	5.4	59	6.7	5.0	11.2	192.7	69.2	22	232	5.36	3.76	7.9	1	2	7
1978	38	MIN	QB	10	16	16	8-7-1	345	572	60.3	3468	25	4.4	32	5.6	58	6.1	4.4	10.1	216.8	68.9	27	254	5.37	3.80	4.5	2	1	11

 

Good enough for 11th all time in yards  (he played under the OLD rules....and was the all time leader for a number of years)

And 6th all time in TD passes.

I meant watson.  That was the knock on him in the draft.  

[The Gipper]

  IOW, Gipper , it's easy to be wrong. Most all of us will be. That's the way it goes. You just think you are always right. A LOT of "experts" are going to be wrong, that is how it is every year. If Denver gets Allen, he will go on to be ELWAY 2.0.

I don't think I am always right.....it just happens to turn out that way!!

Denver unlikely to go after 

[Tour2ma]

On 3/11/2018 at 4:30 PM, Flugel said:

Here's a link to a 13 minute video where Nathan Zegura gets Greg Cosell to break down the top rated QBs headed for the 2018 draft from www.clevelandbrowns.com:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Greg-Cosell-breaks-down-QBs-in-the-2018-draft-class/e5e7dc40-a2e5-485b-bb4a-5afeff9829ff

I like to hear to what he's looking for in particular.  And somewhere around the 12 minute 50 sec mark or so - he reveals who he would take if pressed to do so. If you watch it, I'm interested in hearing what you thought or who you might be interested in (and you can do a 1A and 1B).

Obviously Greg Cosell is a very smart man...

Simplest way to put it is that Rosen has the highest floor and a ceiling that is indistinguishable from any of the other top prospects. That's why he is IMO the clear pick. I wish I thought we were going to take him #1 overall.

After some gap follows Mayfield on my QB Board. Football-wise I liked everything he showed on tape except an ability to go thru progressions. Just saw a lot of pre-snap determining where he was going to look and he stayed locked on that choice until it either came open or it was time to bail out of the pocket. I think this is going to be our choice.

Considering Darnold in the top half of Round 1 is a joke. Darnold is so mechanically flawed.

Allen? Dumb as a bag of rocks. A perfect choice at #22...

 

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

If Denver gets Allen, he will go on to become ELWAY 2.0. 

I know Tim Tebow and Paxton Lynch really set the NFL on fire. 

[mjp28]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Obviously Greg Cosell is a very smart man...

Simplest way to put it is that Rosen has the highest floor and a ceiling that is indistinguishable from any of the other top prospects. That's why he is IMO the clear pick. I wish I thought we were going to take him #1 overall.

After some gap follows Mayfield on my QB Board. Football-wise I liked everything he showed on tape except an ability to go thru progressions. Just saw a lot of pre-snap determining where he was going to look and he stayed locked on that choice until it either came open or it was time to bail out of the pocket. I think this is going to be our choice.

Considering Darnold in the top half of Round 1 is a joke. Darnold is so mechanically flawed.

Allen? Dumb as a bag of rocks. A perfect choice at #22...

 

I've noticed more of this "my guy is better than your guy" stuff this year than in any year I can remember. 

And two special awards this year 1. Mr. Irrelevant and 2. Mr. 22, d'oh sorry about that.   

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, mjp28 said:

I've noticed more of this "my guy is better than your guy" stuff this year than in any year I can remember. 

And two special awards this year 1. Mr. Irrelevant and 2. Mr. 22, d'oh sorry about that.   

Have you tried Genko Biloba? Seriously... it's like this every year. It's just that this year there are four names in the debate... five if you count Gip's misguided obsession with Mason Rudolph.

As for my comment on Allen. That was the word coming out of the White Board sessions at the Combine.

[The Gipper]

19 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Have you tried Genko Biloba? Seriously... it's like this every year. It's just that this year there are four names in the debate... five if you count Gip's misguided obsession with Mason Rudolph.

As for my comment on Allen. That was the word coming out of the White Board sessions at the Combine.

You are the misguided one of you think it is an obsession.   All I have said is that his college numbers/stats are as good or better than the others sve Mayfield....and that he could be in the mix to actually turn out to be one of the better QBs to come out of this class in the long run.

It is far less than your obsession with Rosen.......or Cal's  obsession with Allen/hate for Rosen....or certainly PoGs obsession with Barkley. 

[The Gipper]

Let's face it......it is actually somewhat rare that the first QB taken becomes the best QB....and sometimes 2d/3rd rounders...or the 5th or 6th QBs taken become the better QBs of a draft class.    Here since 2005:

2005  Best QB was the 2d taken with pick #24....Rodgers   #1 OK.....Alex Smith...but not the best

2006 Best QB take was the 3rd one taken: Jay Cutler...if you call him good.   Better than Vince Young and Matt Leinert taken over him anyway

2007....Not a decent QB taken at all that year.   But 6 were taken in rounds 1-3  (Russell/Quinn/Kolb/Beck etc.)

2008  This was one year when the top two QBs taken turned out to be the best:   Matt Ryan #3  Flacco #18

2009  This was a year when the Top taken was the best:  Stafford (over the likes of Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman)

2010  This year was a year when the Top QB take was the best....but he has NOT been that good:    Sam Bradford. (Tebow/Clausen/McCoy next ones picked)

2011  Best was taken #1...Newton.  But...second rounders Dalton and Kaepernik  much better than 1st rounders like Locker, Gabbert, Ponder.  Even 6th rounder Tyrod Taylor better.

2012 This is a year where the #1 QB taken could arguably be said to be the best....or, there is a counter argument.   Luck #1....but note, the next taken: RGII, Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiler.....all surpassed by guys taken below them:   Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Kurt Cousins.

2013  Another shite class for QBs....only 3 taken in first 3 rounds...and none any good:  EJ Manual, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon  Nobody after that. (unless you include Landry Jones)

2014 Semi-close call:  Bortles top QB taken with #3 pick.....But 2d rounders   Derek Carr and Jimmy G.....by many now considered better.  Certainly better than Johnny Fuhucking Football and Teddy Twatwater to date.  And McCarron taken in round 5...but who knows if he is any good.

2015  The Top two picks were Winston and Mariota....and they to date are the best of this class

2016  Actually....the 8th   QB taken has had the best career numbers so far.  Dak Prescott.    Goff and Wentz though did some catching up in their sophomore years.  Who knows about the future.  Dak though looking far better than the likes of Cody Kessler,  Connor Cook, Christian Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Jacoby Brissett....all taken above him.

2017   For what its worth....Mitch Trubisky DID have the best final numbers of all rookie QBs.    But, of course, Watson only played in 7 games....and would have almost certainly been the best.   But...HEY.....Kizer DID have the most yards passing of all rookie QBs..by a wide margin actually.  But, he also threw as many interceptions just about as the rest of the rookie QB class combined.   Watson threw for 19 TDs in 7 games....Kizer threw 11 in 15 games. 

So...bottom line.....likely in far less than half the years has the Top QB drafted turned out to be the best.  Often as not it has been someone taken not in round 1.

[SissyBoyFloyd]

1.  Chubb

4.  Fitzpatrick/Barkley/Nelson

Now you have 2 great players, no worries, no pressure, just huge improvement to your team.  No concern that you might have made wrong choice and struck out again with top picks.  You go home and sleep well at end of Day 1 of the draft.

Take best QB out of Rudolph, Jackson, White, Falk, Lauletta, and let them learn behind your starter.  If they fail to materialize, you repeat process in a year or two, while building the very best team based on continuing taking BPA with every pick, instead of gambling on question mark QBs.  Use you 2nd or 3rd round picks to gamble on QBs, not high first rounders on the likes in this draft.  None of these top 4 would be considered top picks in any other year in my opinion.  As pointed out already, the good starting QBs along with OL, RB, WR can all be had in 2nd-4th rounds.