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Barkley at #1?


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52 minutes ago, hoorta said:

OK forgot about Faulk, my bad. I said "generational" RBs. That means to my mind a once in a 20 year talent, not a once in every 3-5 year talent. A guy who you can put in the conversation with the GOATs- the Browns, Payton's, and Sanders. Faulk, Tomlinson, and certainly not Lynch aren't on that level. So, Boo you want to tell me that Saquon will be on the GOAT level, since you're saying draft him #1 overall? Plenty of game tape to the contrary? Plenty of history showing a HOF QB trumps HOF RB?  I'll even put Barkley on Adrian Peterson level for comparison, he'd be a nice complimentary piece on the Browns if we already had our franchise quarterback, too bad we DON'T.

PS regarding Seattle and Beast Mode, (as with Payton and the Bears) he can thank the Legion of Boom for getting them there.

Well, hell. Look what I found.

However, if the Browns snag the quarterback that the Giants view as the best in this class, a generational talent at running back in Penn State's Saquon Barkley could ignite a Giants' offense that is already loaded with talented playmakers such as Odell Beckham Jr., Sterling Shepard, and Evan Engram.  http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/03/giants_nfl_draft_big_board_ranking_top-5_prospects.html#incart_river_index

Barkley is the missing piece to the Giants puzzle. Not QB right now.

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50 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

The Giants won the super bowl going 9 - 7 and 10 - 6. Manning has proven that he can win big games on the road.

2 years of a clutch QB or a rookie who is unproven? Im going with the guy who has the resume. You cant teach coming through in the clutch.

My gosh, you just aren't very football smart. IF the Giants draft a QB, they DON'T START HIM DAY 1, THEY GO WITH MANNING UNTIL HE RETIRES. 

You know, in 1-2 years see as though he is OLD. 

End of lesson today. You obviously are trolling, uneducated, or just have 1 set opinion, and won't change for anything. It is sad any way you look at it.

 

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2 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Youre getting a QB at 4 and signing a Vet QB. Thats how you win now. Watson was a surprise in Houston.

"a" QB is the key word there. We don't have to get what's left of the bunch at #4, we can get our guy. If the Browns brass has tapped a QB as a top 5 pick, he should go number 1.Let me put it this way, assuming whichever QB would go number #1 and lives up to the potential.

Would you rather have Barry Sanders or Tom Brady? Adrian Peterson or Aaron Rodgers?

It's a crap shoot for any draft, but that answer is obvious.

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11 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

My gosh, you just aren't very football smart. IF the Giants draft a QB, they DON'T START HIM DAY 1, THEY GO WITH MANNING UNTIL HE RETIRES. 

You know, in 1-2 years see as though he is OLD. 

End of lesson today. You obviously are trolling, uneducated, or just have 1 set opinion, and won't change for anything. It is sad any way you look at it.

 

Ridiculous.

As Manning gets another year older, you have just wasted your pick on a QB who wont play. Sorry, but I just dont want to spell everything out in infinite detail for someone to hopefully grasp. Next, we will be back to the Giants never drafting this high again.

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2 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Ist overall picks

Smith - 0 super bowls

Luck - 0 super bowls

Stafford - 0 super bowls

Manning - 2 super bowls

25% odds of hitting it right aint good odds to me.

Do you realize how many teams win superbowls with starting RBs that didn’t get drafted at all?

Shmuck, the Eagles just won the Super Bowl with 2 undrafted RBs and a 5th rounder that they traded for..... 

Willie Parker, Dominique Rhodes, Mike Bell, Pierre Thomas, LeGarette Blount, Corey Clement were all undrafted, and all have a Super Bowl ring that’s less than 15 years old.

theres also a lot of guys who were taken near the middle/end of the draft who made major contributions to Super Bowl wins. Brandon Jacobs (4th) James White (4th) Ahmad Bradshaw (7th) Jay Ajayi (5th) James Starks (6th)

It isn’t even an apples to apples discussion because while you’re listing #1 overall QBs who don’t have Super Bowl rings, the last RB to go #1 overall is old enough to be a father to guys looking to sign their second contract in the NFL, and he was a bust.  

Ill be here waiting to hear about the long snapper you guys want to draft at #1.

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4 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Well, hell. Look what I found.

However, if the Browns snag the quarterback that the Giants view as the best in this class, a generational talent at running back in Penn State's Saquon Barkley could ignite a Giants' offense that is already loaded with talented playmakers such as Odell Beckham Jr., Sterling Shepard, and Evan Engram.  http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/03/giants_nfl_draft_big_board_ranking_top-5_prospects.html#incart_river_index

Barkley is the missing piece to the Giants puzzle. Not QB right now.

And I've already said Saquon to the Giants doesn't necessarily make them an instant SB contender. Sugar plums dancing in the NY collective heads, let's see where the preseason SB odds fall- and that's around five months away.The Eagles (with a healthy Wentz) and the Cowboys (with Elliott off suspension) will have a lot to say about even winning the division. The G-Men may well go the Barkley route, if they want a last hurrah (and no backup plan) with Eli as the QB- but he's starting to show his age. When Eli retires, they're going to be hoping (like the Browns at the cursed #22) they can get lucky and find their qb- which like you're saying- is going to take a couple years to mature. 

Ha- so a NJ paper has Barkley rated the #1 prospect for the Giants.  So does about everyone else. To be "generational" the nfl.com rankings better be 8.0 or better. Close, no cigar Saquon. The hype train is in full force, (saw the Superquon pic in the NY Post) but that generational word is being tossed around a bit too freely for my tastes.

So If the draft goes Browns qb, Giants Saquon, Denver (or the Jets) trade with the Colts to take a qb- (and don't try telling me that's not a distinct possibility) the Browns will beat Saquon's 40 time up to the podium to turn in Chubb's name. 

Seriously- like Gunz, I'm not going to be upset if we go Saquon\quarterback. Just saying that's not the only option- and maybe not even the best. 

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59 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Ridiculous.

As Manning gets another year older, you have just wasted your pick on a QB who wont play. Sorry, but I just dont want to spell everything out in infinite detail for someone to hopefully grasp. Next, we will be back to the Giants never drafting this high again.

You're right, you are always right. Get that resume ready and I will find you that application for GM, you can either replace the "coffee fetcher" or Belichek when he retires. Or better yet, and dont have to wait, be Gettlemen assistant and he can listen to all your infinite wisdom. You will have Superman Barkley, should win 190 games in a row, even with the little league QB to replace Manning

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52 minutes ago, RoyceRolls said:

I understand that historically a lot of good QBs come after #4, but you can multiply that argument by ten for the RB position.  Not only do RBs have the shortest shelf life, but they are also one of the easiest positions to fill.  To argue a RB at #1 is only a few clicks south of saying we need a punter or kicker at #1. I’m not convinced that Barkley will have the best career of this RB group, because every year there’s a mid round guy who comes out of nowhere to become a superstar. The 2 best backs from last draft were taken in the third round. 

I like Barkley, but I’m in no way upset if the browns don’t draft him. If they want to take their QB at 4, then I’d prefer they take Bradley Chubb at 1. take a premium position and set this defense up to be murderous. 

This isn't last year.  This is a year where a lot of draft analysts are ranking Barkley #1 overall in their top 50 prospects. I was originally right with you and others thinking this draft was so deep at RB we didn't need to look to that position first.  I was telling Po (or at least trying to) the same things you were about the best 2 RBs last year and this is an even deeper draft. 

But, since we're just 1 week away from  trying to recruit the interest of a veteran FA QB to the lack of offensive play makers behind our 1-31 football team - what can #1 overall do to recruit their interest beyond the money we have?   Well, we can tell them Jax took Fournette to help Bortles and they had the biggest record improvement in the AFC ending at the AFC Championship.  For all I know you could be right Barkley but at this time I like seeing a RB that can catch 54 passes in 13 games, be the workhorse of a Big 10 Champion, score 45 TDs in 2 years from anywhere on the field from receiving, rushing or kickoff returns.  Or, we could tell them we're going to draft a DE 1st in 2018 after drafting one first in 2017 after drafting one 32nd overall and at the top of round 3 in 2016 so they can see the type of commitment our next victim behind Center will get. They're going to look at us and say good luck with that....

Asking a QB to work with no scoring threats is like trying to work without a computer in Corporate America. The people with better resources are going to be more competitive.  It's like we have well over 100 million $ to spend with the recruiting attraction of no tools to work with.  Let's just say, they're going to know why we're where we are if we don't bring in a recruiting attraction.  I think Barkley can really help us as a recruiting attraction if Dorsey let's them know he's what we plan to do at #1.  Not only that, but some of the veteran FA QBs might want to hear we're not taking a rookie QB 1st overall so they think they can start longer than a sip of coffee here.

Will it crush me if we don't draft Barkley?  Hell no!   I think we'll still get 2 great players at 1 and 4.

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I’m kind of stunned (and baffled) how many genuinely seem to want to draft a RB at #1. 

And even more so when you consider what our Jackass of a HC did with his use of backs last year. 

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They’d better not tell fa recruits what they’re going to do in the draft. If they don’t end up signing, the cat is out of the bag, may well be out of the bag either way. Secondly, since the contract would be signed before the draft starts, they could just say “hey, we will get Barkley if you sign here” and then still make the smart choice of a QB at #1. If Barkley is gone at 4, say “oh well, we tried, you’re under contract, let’s play ball” 

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5 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

I’m kind of stunned (and baffled) how many genuinely seem to want to draft a RB at #1. 

And even more so when you consider what our Jackass of a HC did with his use of backs last year. 

Fair statement.

They used to say about Jim Brown:   If you have a big gun, shoot it.   

But Hue may be a Dungeons and Dragons fan....as the only weapons he accepts apparently are swords and axes.  

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29 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

The exact quote was that Emmit Smith was the last RB to lead a team to a championship 20 years ago. Its happened as recently as 2013. 

OK, just who was that?

Emmitt Smith also had a star QB from UCLA. 

We can get one this draft. 

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45 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

You're right, you are always right. Get that resume ready and I will find you that application for GM, you can either replace the "coffee fetcher" or Belichek when he retires. Or better yet, and dont have to wait, be Gettlemen assistant and he can listen to all your infinite wisdom. You will have Superman Barkley, should win 190 games in a row, even with the little league QB to replace Manning

Can I count on you for a reference?

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1 hour ago, RoyceRolls said:

Ill be here waiting to hear about the long snapper you guys want to draft at #1.

:lol: Are you really throwing me into that company Royce?  My intentions with this topic aren't to freak people out - just something to talk about.  The careful use of rethinking in the heading shows I came from your thought process about the RB position. There's just a couple things I see that are getting me to look at the bigger picture of the player more than the position and what it could mean to recruiting a veteran QB. I'm not going to lose any sleep if we go another route at all.

As for the 1st round RBs in Superbowls - there's a ton of them like Franco Harris with 4, Emmitt Smith with 3, Larry Csonka with 3, Paul Hornung with 1, Jerome Bettis with 2, Tony Dorsett with 1, John Riggins with 1, Reggie Bush with 1, Jamal Lewis with 1, Marcus Allen with 1, Shaun Alexander 1, and there's way more but there's plenty of examples to satisfy both side of that debate so moving on....

4 minutes ago, RoyceRolls said:

They’d better not tell fa recruits what they’re going to do in the draft. If they don’t end up signing, the cat is out of the bag, may well be out of the bag either way. Secondly, since the contract would be signed before the draft starts, they could just say “hey, we will get Barkley if you sign here” and then still make the smart choice of a QB at #1. If Barkley is gone at 4, say “oh well, we tried, you’re under contract, let’s play ball” 

Yeah, we'd definitely have to be smart about it as in a close the sale only type of thing or something along the line of your idea.

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Whether you are in or out on Barkley (doesn't matter to me), I must admit to both sides I have been so wrong on him.

I was told that he would run sub 4.3 in 40. I read where he ran a 4.4 (still very fast), but I failed to realize that the clock was broken when he ran at the combine

I was told he was strongest RB to ever grace the scene, he did 29 reps ( that is GREAT, especially for a RB), but just a couple years ago a back did 32. I just received an update, Saquon did his bench one handed.

I heard a little birdie say he had a good game against Ohio State. He had 21 carries for 44 yards, including a 36 yard TD. I assumed that wasn't a very good average, but then I went back and looked at the tape, and it was rather impressive considering Ohio State played with 15 on the field, and Penn State only had 1 lineman.

It rang in my head like a drum how great of a receiving back he was. He had 102 catches for 1195 yards (11.7 average) and 8 TDs for his career. That shows his ability over someone like Michel who over the same amount of time had 64 catches for 621 yards (9.7 average) and 6 TDs for his career. Then I remembered that Barkley was the feature back, and Michel split time with another high prospect in Nick Chubb, who himself in 3 years (just like Barkley and Michel) had 31 catches for 361 yards (11.6 average) and 4 TDs. So adding up Penn State backfield vs Georgia backfield was 102 catches, 1195 yards and 8 TDs vs 95 catches, 982 yards, and 10 touchdowns. I thought about it though, and figured I would look at the careers in college of the top 3 backs in the league (as they are multi dimensional). Todd Gurley: 65 catches, 615 yards (9.5 average) and 6 TDs, Zeke: 58 catches, 449 yards (7.7 average) and 1 TD, Leveon Bell: 78 catches, 531 yards (6.8 average) and 1 TD. So I assumed just like those top NFL backs that these college guys have the ability to catch, even though they didn't do it as much in college. But then I had to remember that Barkley had McSorley throwing to him, and that hurt him, while these other guys had future HOF as their QBs, because Gurley had Aaron Murray, Zeke had JT Barrett, and Bell had Cousins and Cook.

So you guys, again I was wrong. SUPERMAN BARKLEY is worth 2 1st rounders, he has the best characteristics from Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, and Ladanian Tomlinson rolled all into one. And if the Quarterback the Browns get at #4 doesn't pan out, Todd Haley will just tailor his offense entirely around Barkley. A lot of Wild Dawg Pound. I'll bet Barkley has a better arm than Josh Allen or John Elway, and the brain of Peyton Manning. I am now locking it up, Barkley at #1. He will rush for 2400 yards and 20 TD's and catch 120 balls and 10 TDs. And he will also return 8 kickoffs for TD.

 

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14 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Can I count on you for a reference?

Yep. But don't think you want me as a reference, the countless years of my involvement in the game obviously didn't give me any knowledge. Just putting my name down will hurt you.

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18 minutes ago, Flugel said:

:lol: Are you really throwing me into that company Royce?  My intentions with this topic aren't to freak people out - just something to talk about.  The careful use of rethinking in the heading shows I came from your thought process about the RB position. There's just a couple things I see that are getting me to look at the bigger picture of the player more than the position and what it could mean to recruiting a veteran QB. I'm not going to lose any sleep if we go another route at all.

As for the 1st round RBs in Superbowls - there's a ton of them like Franco Harris with 4, Emmitt Smith with 3, Larry Csonka with 3, Paul Hornung with 1, Jerome Bettis with 2, Tony Dorsett with 1, John Riggins with 1, Reggie Bush with 1, Jamal Lewis with 1, Marcus Allen with 1, Shaun Alexander 1, and there's way more but there's plenty of examples to satisfy both side of that debate so moving on....

Yeah, we'd definitely have to be smart about it as in a close the sale only type of thing or something along the line of your idea.

Those first round QBs you listed were mostly from a different era, but also had a legit QB, and defense. Saying Reggie bush won a super bowl is like saying Kenny Britt won an afc title with the pats. The fact that the saints relied heavily on two undrafted RBs while their second overall selection contributed 5 yards serves my argument. No one will ever convince me that a generational RB will ever have the same impact as a top ten QB in any given year. 

 

Edit: I’m not saying you believe, RB is more important than QB, but the browns don’t have the luxury of pretending that all positions are created equal. They need to be bull-headed and go all in on whichever QB they believe will be a franchise guy. I’ve spent years watching the Browns make excuses for not going all in on solving the QB position while other teams seemed to figure it out. 

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15 minutes ago, Flugel said:

:lol: Are you really throwing me into that company Royce?  My intentions with this topic aren't to freak people out - just something to talk about.  The careful use of rethinking in the heading shows I came from your thought process about the RB position. There's just a couple things I see that are getting me to look at the bigger picture of the player more than the position and what it could mean to recruiting a veteran QB. I'm not going to lose any sleep if we go another route at all.

As for the 1st round RBs in Superbowls - there's a ton of them like Franco Harris with 4, Emmitt Smith with 3, Larry Csonka with 3, Paul Hornung with 1, Jerome Bettis with 2, Tony Dorsett with 1, John Riggins with 1, Reggie Bush with 1, Jamal Lewis with 1, Marcus Allen with 1, Shaun Alexander 1, and there's way more but there's plenty of examples to satisfy both side of that debate so moving on....

Yeah, we'd definitely have to be smart about it as in a close the sale only type of thing or something along the line of your idea.

I dont even think it is a bad idea taking him, even though most won't agree that is my view. But there are SO many things to contradict people's talk.

And you bring up all those names. And all but Bush (who wasn't the starter right) were in the era of teams playing more smashmouth football. That is way more geared to how I view the game, but unfortunately the game has changed to a pass happy league.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

I thought he meant that it was a RB who "lead" a team to the Super Bowl win in 2013.  Who was that?

Marshawn Lynch is probably the RB in question.

However, the 2013 Seachickens had a decent QB and a damned good defense to boot.

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9 hours ago, boo fagley said:

The King is Josh Allen and the Queen Barkley.

The queen (QB) can push the ball to just about any place on the field.

Bottom line, the QB is FAR and AWAY the most important person on the football team.  (including coaches)

The RB is a mere accessory that can be had in almost any round.

Put Barkley on our team last year and he gains crap for yardage.....because the D's would just stack him and bottle him.  If ya got no QB, ya got nothin'!

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2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I thought he meant that it was a RB who "lead" a team to the Super Bowl win in 2013.  Who was that?

Ah- he's most likely talking Marshawn Lynch. Looking at his career stats, he's probably HOF material. But as Walter Payton before him with Da Bears- the Seattle defense was as much responsible for the Super Bowl win, and responsible for getting them there in the first place. Cam Chancellor and Richard Sherman in their prime. I just watched the highlights of that Super Bowl, and the Seahawks defense came up with a couple interceptions (one a pick 6) and a forced fumble. I wasn't aware Lynch played defense. 

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After thinking, I still have to hang my hat on drafting a QB (BM?) at #1. If we like SB that much, is trading up from 4 something the Browns may consider?

We'll see!

Mike 

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I guess someone with erasing powers didn't think to much of my post. Or maybe they realized I was telling truths and didn't want to admit it so they erased it.

O well. Good for them

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5 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Well, hell. Look what I found.

However, if the Browns snag the quarterback that the Giants view as the best in this class, a generational talent at running back in Penn State's Saquon Barkley could ignite a Giants' offense that is already loaded with talented playmakers such as Odell Beckham Jr., Sterling Shepard, and Evan Engram.  http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/03/giants_nfl_draft_big_board_ranking_top-5_prospects.html#incart_river_index

Barkley is the missing piece to the Giants puzzle. Not QB right now.

Well you've seen at Penn State Barkley can't play OL... so fat chance the Gmen get their offense "ignited" without addressing their massive problems up front.  

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