Barkley at #1?

[lambdo]

When there is a generational talent at a position of need, you take him at #1.

Not only that, An identity is so needed on this team and it finally arrives in the form of Saquon Barkley. Very, very excited.

Also, we should be thanking Chubb for his excellent combine showing. That should lock him up at 3. Leaving only NYG selecting the first QB.

Man oh, man which QB to throw to J.Gordon and crew??

 

 

[Canton Dawg]

If they draft a RB with the #1 overall pick this year, who are they going to pick at #1 overall with NEXT year’s pick?

[SkippinTurtles]

1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

If they draft a RB with the #1 overall pick this year, who are they going to pick at #1 overall with NEXT year’s pick?

They draft the top QB with a superstar running back on hand.

[stillmotion]

My dream is #1 Barkley and #4 Mayfield, which is realistic. Immediately gives us explosiveness. If we add someone like Jarvis Landry, damn we'll look sick. Only thing is we need a veteran QB to mentor whoever we chose as well.

If We took Minkah and a QB too i'd be happy.

Just please, for the love of god don't trade down to 22.

[Canton Mike]

1 minute ago, stillmotion said:

My dream is #1 Barkley and #4 Mayfield, which is realistic. Immediately gives us explosiveness. If we add someone like Jarvis Landry, damn we'll look sick. Only thing is we need a veteran QB to mentor whoever we chose as well.

If We took Minkah and a QB too i'd be happy.

Just please, for the love of god don't trade down to 22.

There! It's fixed, although the rest of your post is pretty good too.

Mike

[hoorta]

36 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

My dream is #1 Barkley and #4 Mayfield, which is realistic. Immediately gives us explosiveness. If we add someone like Jarvis Landry, damn we'll look sick. Only thing is we need a veteran QB to mentor whoever we chose as well.

If We took Minkah and a QB too i'd be happy.

Just please, for the love of god don't trade down to 22.

LOL, you know who holds #22 (and #21 this year)? The Bills. What if they offer us those two for our #4. Arrruuugggghhhh!!! nightmares....  Kirk helped himself at the combine- if he lasts until the second round go for it. I'm still not sure Saquon at #1 is the way to go yet. 

34 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

There! It's fixed, although the rest of your post is pretty good too.

Mike

We'll see Mike.   

[MLD Woody]

I mean... No,it's not. 

 

Barkley may be amazing, but you need to look at the difference between him and the other HBs, where we could draft those HBs, and the positional value.

[Dutch Oven]

Barkley wasn't even a better college RB than Ezekiel Elliot, but now he's a "generational" talent.

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, lambdo said:

When there is a generational talent at a position of need, you take him at #1.

Not only that, An identity is so needed on this team and it finally arrives in the form of Saquon Barkley. Very, very excited.

Also, we should be thanking Chubb for his excellent combine showing. That should lock him up at 3. Leaving only NYG selecting the first QB.

Man oh, man which QB to throw to J.Gordon and crew??

Dorsey doesn't agree with you. It's not looking good for the Saquon at #1 crowd currently. We've already been down this road with Po a dozen times. It's few and far between "generational" running backs win Super Bowls- and definitely not without a super talented team around them. The last one to do so was Emmett Smith, and that was over 20 years ago.  

" Asked to rank the most important positions on the field correlated with winning, Dorsey started with quarterback and rattled off four more -- pass rusher, cornerback, left tackle and wide receiver -- that are directly related to the passing game."

 

53 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Barkley wasn't even a better college RB than Ezekiel Elliot, but now he's a "generational" talent.

And I thought only ESPN was a front runner in the hype game. Seems NFLN is seriously kissing his butt. Hardly heard anything about Guice, Michel, and several other RBs. 

[TexasAg1969]

2 minutes ago, hoorta said:

And I thought only ESPN was a front runner in the hype game. Seems NFLN is seriously kissing his butt. Hardly heard anything about Guice, Michel, and several other RBs. 

All that speed and all those long runs, yet his ypc average is far less that more than one other RB. What's wrong with that picture? It tells me he does not get the tough inside yards required against speedy NFL defenders. Pass for better, tougher RBs later.

[jcam222]

27 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Dorsey doesn't agree with you. It's not looking good for the Saquon at #1 crowd currently. We've already been down this road with Po a dozen times. It's few and far between "generational" running backs win Super Bowls- and definitely not without a super talented team around them. The last one to do so was Emmett Smith, and that was over 20 years ago.  

" Asked to rank the most important positions on the field correlated with winning, Dorsey started with quarterback and rattled off four more -- pass rusher, cornerback, left tackle and wide receiver -- that are directly related to the passing game."

 

And I thought only ESPN was a front runner in the hype game. Seems NFLN is seriously kissing his butt. Hardly heard anything about Guice, Michel, and several other RBs. 

Dorsey has also very clearly stated he doesn't weight picks on importance of position or need. He's been crystal clear his draft philosophy is BPA. 

[Flugel]

Okay loddies and lassies, top of the morning to yuz!  Watching the difference between top QB prospects become much less of a difference has me rethinking my way over to Barkley at #1.  Hear me out first; because all of this time I was right where Mark O was on the QB vrs Barkley debate only he articulated our argument way better than me. He'll still have things I agree on except the reality that even our favorite QBs have more things to worry about than Barkley has.  So, here goes the overcaffeinated world according to me:

If we don't start the run on QBs at #1 overall - isn't there still only 2 draft picks before we draft again at #4?   And how many weeks will this be after the team with the most money to spend on a FA QB does so?    And isn't it possible this is a unique year where 2-3 QBs can be very equivalent in what they offer because they all have some concerns?  Aside from that, when the 2 other teams pick before our 4th spot - what guarantee do we have they will take the 1 we are slightly favoring?  Whether I agree with the drool fest over Josh Allen or not - maybe it's a good thing he can throw the ball all the way to Canada just like Jamarcus Russell could.  He could be one of the QBs that goes before we pick at #4 because someone will be willing to forget he only threw 16 TD passes last year against a lesser brand of corner and pass rushers with pedestrian accuracy.  I know I know he LOVES football though.  All it takes is 1 team that doesn't care about short game accuracy and the tighter windows of red zones.  We've already gone the bionic arm route in lieu of accuracy with Weeden, Anderson and Kizer which are 3 very good reasons we still need a QB today right?   They LOVED football too before they realized their lack of accuracy in a world that requires fitting air tight windows in congested red zones them feeling like a McCoy surrounded by 65,000 Hatfields.  It's been like a never ending video to the song "You Lost that Loving Feeling..."

YES, Mayfield and Darnold are my not-so-perfect faves but much to my surprise Rosen (with a lot of help from SD Tom's persistence and media examples at the combines) got me to see him in ways I was previously unwilling to - closed some serious ground on both.  I don't give a rat what he said when he was 17 that has been so blow out of context to look like he just said those things 4-5 years later.  And when he questioned which sport he was better between his #1 ranking in tennis vrs his #1 QB ranking in Rivals and Scout - that's not a lack of love or passion for the sport he chose at 17.  It's probably something a lot of people would question. I also find it interesting that some of his previous critics at the football camp back before he was a senior in high school have made it a point to say he's a lot more mature today to the extent they've changed their opinion of him for the better.   The last Head Coach he had gave him far better reviews than Justin Gilbert's college Head Coach had for all healthy consumers.

So WHY have I about faced my opinion to take a RB first especially in a draft that is so deep at the position?  As I've looked at all of the RBs in the draft, a lot of them aren't going to be 3 down RBs in the NFL because they lack the 1 thing Barkley might be very underrated at.  Catching the football out of the backfield aside from his ideal size to handle a bigger work load. He had 54 receptions for 632 yards and 3 TDs to go with his 1200+ yards and 18 TDs on the ground aside from his kickoff returns for TDs.  If you're not impressed - you simply don't want to be. The only RB that resembles Barkley is SDSU's Rashaad Penny but there's no guarantees he's on our doorstep later in the draft.  Meanwhile, Sony Michel I thought was an ideal alternative only had 9 receptions in 14-15 games while his playing weight of about 215 lbs reminds us he'll stay a part time RB.

Barkley has better gears than Duke Johnson without the history of injury Duke had at the U - which ultimately made his NFL taker understand how much of a workload he'd handle best.  Right now, we don't have a scoring threat on the roster inclusive of the Josh Gordon who has only scored 1 TD in his only 10 starts since 2013.  Barkley is good for the passing game and our running game without us tipping off tendencies using 2 different guys all the time.  If you want to recruit the interest of a FA QB - you tell him you are going to give him Barkley like Polian equipped Peyton Manning with Marshall Faulk in his first NFL huddle and then Edge James thereafter.  When Faulk went to the Rams, a little known QB named Kurt Warner at 29 years of age enjoyed a RB that could bury the blitz with TD receptions all the way to a Pro Bowl and MVP caliber season punctuated with a Superbowl Championship.  For that matter, there's Dak Prescott WITH Zeke and WITHOUT Zeke - can you guess which version made him Rookie of the Year? 

In adding Barkley, we don't need to draft another RB. We get our Marshall Faulk that can score from anywhere on the field in the pass game or running game.  Meanwhile, as all the other teams are in those runs drafting RBs in this deep draft - this gets us looking at WRs and DBs and a dual purpose TE like Oklahoma's Mark Andrews.  We also have Free Agency and the most money to spend on some yes price tags we finally HAVE to compete for (rather than overpaying the Jamar Taylor we still need to upgrade causing us to double-dip anyway).  You get what you pay for and the unwillingness to compete for the better guys often causes desperate knee jerk overpayments on bums/has-beens like Dwayne Bowe and Kenny Brat. 

The biggest difference between Barkley and the first QB is every top QB we consider gives us at least 1-2 more concerns than Barkley does. The good news? There's only 2 picks between who we take at #1 and when we pick again. We're going to add QBs with as much money as we have for FA as well as up as high as #4 overall.  Barkley and these 2 QBs plus three 2nd round picks plus the 1st pick of round 3?

All this from a guy that was getting a huge kick out of the "Love PO tion #9" Springbreak girls gone wild caliber passion packed threads recruiting the testosterone to throw down and polarize.  IMO, this is a classic example of letting some things settle before racing to a final conclusion far before it's necessary.  My mind may change again but I'm enjoying the excitement of the opportunity this experienced FO (with proven success in the draft, free agency and trades) has in front of it. 

[Canton Mike]

Well stated Tom.

This draft really opens up choices at #1 & the availability of our #4 pick REALLY opens up many options. Thank God we have the FO we do. I am very confident that they will get what we need between FA, trade, & the draft.

It's gonna be a VERY interesting 2018!!

Mike

[tiamat63]

No.

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

 

......YES, Mayfield and Darnold are my not-so-perfect faves but much to my surprise Rosen (with a lot of help from SD Tom's persistence and media examples at the combines) got me to see him in ways I was previously unwilling to - closed some serious ground on both.  I don't give a rat what he said when he was 17 that has been so blow out of context to look like he just said those things 4-5 years later.  And when he questioned which sport he was better between his #1 ranking in tennis vrs his #1 QB ranking in Rivals and Scout - that's not a lack of love or passion for the sport he chose at 17.......

Ok, 1. I've kind of done the Cliff's notes version of Flugel's fine post and to quote the Stones that roll.....

2. "You can't always get what you want", so there it is, it's just the NFL Draft folks you can't cover every base or make EVERYBODY happy with picks #1 and 4.....and why trading the #1 pick and ending up with three in the top 5 makes more and more sense but *POOF* that's just just a predraft speculation too.

The only now somewhat fleeting answer is to sign an experienced FA QB and pick your RB, DB, whatever at #1 and #4 and move on to the top R2 picks.

But *POOF* it's only a dream right now. 

[Unsympathetic]

No.

How many playoff games have the Cowboys won with Ezekiel Elliot?

[tiamat63]

1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

No.

How many playoff games have the Cowboys won with Ezekiel Elliot?

Not really your best analogy.

They struggled just to win regular season games without him. 

[Unsympathetic]

16 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Not really your best analogy.

They struggled just to win regular season games without him. 

Although obviously unclear, my attempted point is that the Cowboys would have done better that year and present by improving their defense rather than Zeke.. the passD was 26th the year Ezekiel played the entire season, and they had Darren McFadden the season prior to Elliot so they weren't terrible at rushing.

Several places covered the Cowboys' stats this past year and showed their passD ranking was some weird luck and bad opponent play-calling, not good players.. and they would have been one top-notch DB better if they hadn't drafted Zeke. 

Would they still struggle on O? Perhaps -- I'm not sold on Prescott, but that may be just me.  But Dez took a big step down this past season [and broke his foot doing so] and that plays just as big a role.

[mjp28]

49 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Not really your best analogy.

They struggled just to win regular season games without him. 

I had EE on one of my FL teams he was fantastic.....when not going week to week wondering about being suspended, but on field a no brainer! Made Mr. Dak way better too.

[Bob806]

Dorsey, Highsmith, and company definitely have a good problem here. 

I think they narrow it down to two things (Browns main team weaknesses): the lack of TDs by our offense, and a below average secondary. So they need to triage if they want to draft and be patient with a shiny-new rookie QB at #1 (he's going to sit), or a RB who should be able to play in week #1. Then, assuming he's there at #4, it's Fitzpatrick. 

He (Dorsey) probably could care less about a PR nightmare, but I do think if he trades down, we fans are going to be really pissed off. I'm expecting the Browns to stand pat, and draft players. Go down swinging with your draft board....that way we can only "what-if" on a player or two who they may have whiffed on. Yes, they are going to whiff folks, EVERY team does; let's just hope it's not at #1,4, & 33, 35.

[MLD Woody]

No no no no

[mjp28]

19 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

Dorsey, Highsmith, and company definitely have a good problem here. 

I think they narrow it down to two things (Browns main team weaknesses): the lack of TDs by our offense, and a below average secondary. So they need to triage if they want to draft and be patient with a shiny-new rookie QB at #1 (he's going to sit), or a RB who should be able to play in week #1. Then, assuming he's there at #4, it's Fitzpatrick. 

He (Dorsey) probably could care less about a PR nightmare, but I do think if he trades down, we fans are going to be really pissed off. I'm expecting the Browns to stand pat, and draft players. Go down swinging with your draft board....that way we can only "what-if" on a player or two who they may have whiffed on. Yes, they are going to whiff folks, EVERY team does; let's just hope it's not at #1,4, & 33, 35.

I'm OK with that.  PR nightmares wear off real fast if you win too, like maybe in a week or two? Fans tend to have short memories at times.....and winning is the magic elixir. 

[Flugel]

2 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

No.

How many playoff games have the Cowboys won with Ezekiel Elliot?

Zeke only gets 2 years to win a playoff game or he's a horrible idea?  Come on.

Before Emmitt Smith game changed Troy Aikman's situation from multiple concussions against Philly alone to frequenting playoffs and Superbowl Championships - their only playmaker Michael Irvin was waiting for help.  

My point was, unless you think Dak Prescott didn't need Zeke's help at all, is he was a tremendous help to a first year starter at QB that wasn't the 1st or 2nd QB drafted ending in a Rookie of the Year celebration nobody saw coming. 

Along the same line, Marshall Faulk was a gigantic help to a first year starter named Kurt Warner that was punctuated with Superbowl Championship, MVP and Pro Bowl honors for a QB nobody saw coming. 

In saying all that, thanks for showing me if Barkley just played for Ohio State - Tia would be defending him the way you just got him to do. Good job with that. It looks like Barkley just had all those receptions, receiving yardage, rushing yardage, TDs and 1 Big 10 Championship to celebrate for the wrong school. Maybe I'm just getting old but I don't remember too many other Big 10 Championships at Penn State the last 13 years or so before Barkley became their big play maker.  I think if we can get past the patriotism for Ohio State - we'd allow ourselves to see a pretty damn good football player if we wanted to.  The thing Ohio State had when they won the National Championship that Zeke didn't was a defense that stockpiled the NFL draft.  And I think Ohio State put more starters on offense and defense into NFL starting lineups in fairness.  

Zeke is one of my all time fave RBs at Ohio State so I have zero to put down and loved his most underrated feature of BLOCKING beside his breakaway ability to score from anywhere.  Barkley can score from anywhere as well - inclusive of passing game and kickoff return. Even though Ohio State manhandled PSU's line up front this year - Barkley had a kickoff return for a TD and a reception for a TD just 1 year after they beat Ohio State head to head.  Yeah, Ohio State got to go to the Final 4 instead of the Big 10 Champions in 2016 but they lost 42-0.  So, Barkley had to settle for scoring 3 TDs against USC with 194 yards rushing on 25 carries plus 5 receptions for 55 yards in the Bowl game they lost 52-49.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nero]

I would agree on this only if RB was our biggest hole in the roster and all other RB draftees were really subpar comparing to Barkley. 

And tha's not our case. 

[jcam222]

For those of you saying no why? Is it because you are just against an RB at 1 or do you really think a QB solution has to be pick1??

[LogicIsForSquares]

The life of an NFL RB is limited. Drafting a QB at 1 gets you 15 years potentially of quality play. 

Fitzpatrick or Chubb at 4 with a RB in the early 2nd is a far better usage of the picks.

[Flugel]

48 minutes ago, Nero said:

I would agree on this only if RB was our biggest hole in the roster and all other RB draftees were really subpar comparing to Barkley. 

And tha's not our case. 

I respect your opinion and where you are coming from Nero. However, I don't see a scoring threat from anywhere on the field from our starting RB Crow who may be leaving via FA. In fact, how many TDs did he even score?  Not all his fault, but so many times when he hit the open field - he'd trip or fall down rather than acceleration gear anybody.  We're very non-competitive at our starting RB position IMO. Since RBs touch the ball more frequently than any other position beside QB - we need our starter to have at least the same ability to catch and score as Duke. I tried to spell a lot of why I liked him out but I probably put too many people to sleep with how long-winded I got.

My avatar is Greg Pruitt that was a home run threat any time he touched the football in the pass game or the running game especially.  We've missed a breakaway threat at RB forever; and this one weighs about 230 lbs. He's unique man. 

Try to remember scoring TDs is a very big need on this roster. Barkley scored 18 by land, 3 by air and 2 by kickoff return just in 2017.  I LOVE what the 54 receptions for over 630 yards receiving also trained him for ahead.  A lot of the other RBs are limited to 1 dimension like Sony Michel per say with 9 receptions over 14-15 games so the closest thing I see to Barkley is Rashaad Penny that won't go at #1 or #4 but may not be available in 1 of our spots later.  I don't want to draft 2 RBs to get a complete RB.  I want Alvan Kamara and Mark Ingram together if it's up at #1 overall.  Anyway, that's where I'm coming from on this.

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

Dorsey, Highsmith, and company definitely have a good problem here. 

I think they narrow it down to two things (Browns main team weaknesses): the lack of TDs by our offense, and a below average secondary. So they need to triage if they want to draft and be patient with a shiny-new rookie QB at #1 (he's going to sit), or a RB who should be able to play in week #1. Then, assuming he's there at #4, it's Fitzpatrick. 

He (Dorsey) probably could care less about a PR nightmare, but I do think if he trades down, we fans are going to be really pissed off. I'm expecting the Browns to stand pat, and draft players. Go down swinging with your draft board....that way we can only "what-if" on a player or two who they may have whiffed on. Yes, they are going to whiff folks, EVERY team does; let's just hope it's not at #1,4, & 33, 35.

I would bet a healthy amount of money we're trading out of the #1 or the #4....or both. 

[Nero]

15 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I respect your opinion and where you are coming from Nero. However, I don't see a scoring threat from anywhere on the field from our starting RB Crow who may be leaving via FA. In fact, how many TDs did he even score?  Not all his fault, but so many times when he hit the open field - he'd trip or fall down rather than acceleration gear anybody.  We're very non-competitive at our starting RB position IMO. Since RBs touch the ball more frequently than any other position beside QB - we need our starter to have at least the same ability to catch and score as Duke. I tried to spell a lot of why I liked him out but I probably put too many people to sleep with how long-winded I got.

My avatar is Greg Pruitt that was a home run threat any time he touched the football in the pass game or the running game especially.  We've missed a breakaway threat at RB forever; and this one weighs about 230 lbs. He's unique man. 

I said "our biggest hole" I didn't say it wasn't a hole. Crowell isn't a homerun RB and Hue doesn't know how to call run plays, we definitely need to draft a RB. But our holes at QB and CB/Safety are far bigger.

[hoorta]

41 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

For those of you saying no why? Is it because you are just against an RB at 1 or do you really think a QB solution has to be pick1??

I've slightly changed my mind about Barkley #1 overall. Some of this is Combine Euphoria workout warrior stuff. Vernon Gholston anyone? I'm going to let the dust settle before I throw my hat in the Saquon ring. Still 60% QB at #1. 

It's been well documented Saquon got most of his yardage outside the tackles- a lot tougher act to repeat in the NFL. Sure teams were keying on stopping him- but I noticed in the TE Combine workouts Penn State's Mike Gesicki isn't exactly a bum- my bet is he's first round for sure. For Saquon's runs- it was swing miss, swing miss, home run. 

MHO is still #1 QB + Fitzpartick\Chubb is > Barkley + ? QB. And we still may have the scenario where quarterbacks go with the top 3 picks- and Barkley is still there at #4. 

Stay tuned folks.