Marcus Peters And Brian Cushing

[darren15]

Peters available for trade and Cushing released .....should we be looking at either ?

[The Gipper]

Cushing an older, injured, steroid using  MLB.   NO.....we have better as we stand....in Kirksey, Schobert, Colins.

Peters, more viable IMO.   We need to either draft a CB or get one in FA. (Or would he have to be gotten in trade?)  Nevertheless.....far more viable than Cushing given his age, position, and the Browns needs.

[Louisville Slugger]

I think a Peters for Danny Shelton trade would be a good deal. They need a NT and we obviousy are on the market for a CB. I think Gregg Williams prefers pass rushers so we may not sign Shelton after next season anyway.

[darren15]

4 minutes ago, Louisville Slugger said:

I think a Peters for Danny Shelton trade would be a good deal. They need a NT and we obviousy are on the market for a CB. I think Gregg Williams prefers pass rushers so we may not sign Shelton after next season anyway.

The draft Vita Vea by trading back into the first round

[Nero]

If our coaching staff and locker room can handle him, I would trade for Marcus Peters, we do need help at CB. But he's quite an idiot and sometimes a star can ruin the mood.

[tiamat63]

Pretty sure Williams is on record as saying Danny was a player he wanted to draft.   Also, by the numbers, our run defense is better when he's on the field - that much cannot be argued.   

Would I be interested in Peters? If this team had the top/down leadership and structure we crave, then yes I would.    Only if he's used as an on-ball CB though.    Kid doesn't have the hips or speed to play off.   Go ahead and ask Amari Cooper...

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Cushing an older, injured, steroid using  MLB.   NO.....we have better as we stand....in Kirksey, Schobert, Colins.

Peters, more viable IMO.   We need to either draft a CB or get one in FA. (Or would he have to be gotten in trade?)  Nevertheless.....far more viable than Cushing given his age, position, and the Browns needs.

With Cushing's PED issues and age- agreed, nope. We're ok there with Collins coming back.  I'll defer to Tia on Peters.

 

38 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Pretty sure Williams is on record as saying Danny was a player he wanted to draft.   Also, by the numbers, our run defense is better when he's on the field - that much cannot be argued.   

Would I be interested in Peters? If this team had the top/down leadership and structure we crave, then yes I would.    Only if he's used as an on-ball CB though.    Kid doesn't have the hips or speed to play off.   Go ahead and ask Amari Cooper...

Not trading Shelton, but hey Tia, how high a draft pick are you willing to give KC to get him? 

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

With Cushing's PED issues and age- agreed, nope. We're ok there with Collins coming back.  I'll defer to Tia on Peters.

 

Not trading Shelton, but hey Tia, how high a draft pick are you willing to give KC to get him? 

Haven't done my dilligence on Marcus.  I know Oakland would probably be willing to offer something pretty high and I don't think I'd be ok matching that.  Mainly because I know Peters would like to go back home and there's no way KC is willing to part with an upper tier CB unless he's giving them in-house issues or simply can't clear the cap room.  

But if youre putting a gun to my head and asking me to answer now?  I'm not giving up a 1st.  

[hx214]

Browns are very thin at linebacker depth... if Cushings would sign a salary friendly deal it would be nice to have a guy with experience rather than an undrafted free agent or road apple cast off.

[Pat Mahomo]

Peters isn't up for trade.  That rumor is from Pro football talk, and all that "rumor" is about is those guys speculating that KC traded for Fuller and signed Amerson, so since they have nothing else to do, they put out there maybe KC would be willing to trade him....literally no source, no ones said a word....pure garbage speculation to get clicks and since someone on the internet posted it...it's now taken as a rumor.  It's rediculous.  He is an elite CB on his rookie deal...there is zero reason for KC (us) to trade him.  

[tiamat63]

I think elite might be a bit much for Marcus at the moment. 

[The Gipper]

10 hours ago, hx214 said:

Browns are very thin at linebacker depth... if Cushings would sign a salary friendly deal it would be nice to have a guy with experience rather than an undrafted free agent or road apple cast off.

Not so sure.   Would he be better than what we have at second string in  Burgess, Alexander and Carder?   Maybe not.

Besides that....I am of the opinion that you are correct that they can use depth.....or even more than depth...maybe even a starter.....and that they should be looking for an OLB  as high as the second round.  (not UDFA or street FA as you say).

Here are the top candidates:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/outside-linebackers/

[The Gipper]

10 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

Peters isn't up for trade.  That rumor is from Pro football talk, and all that "rumor" is about is those guys speculating that KC traded for Fuller and signed Amerson, so since they have nothing else to do, they put out there maybe KC would be willing to trade him....literally no source, no ones said a word....pure garbage speculation to get clicks and since someone on the internet posted it...it's now taken as a rumor.  It's rediculous.  He is an elite CB on his rookie deal...there is zero reason for KC (us) to trade him.  

So be it.    Even if he isn't All Pro/Pro Bowl level....is it fair to say that he is a serviceable player....and that getting rid of him would only hurt the team's depth at that spot?  

I mean...it would be like the Browns dumping Joe Haden for nothing.  Sure...Joe was past his prime......but what they had behind him was not nearly as good.

You do things to improve your team....not weaken it.   Unless you are in one of these "Process Building Modes"   which I guess under Sashi Brown that was what this team was doing.  Not sure KC is at that point.  I assume that they still feel they can compete for playoffs, despite dumping Smith.

Fair to say?

[tiamat63]

On 2/20/2018 at 1:01 AM, Pat Mahomo said:

Peters isn't up for trade.

You were saying....?

[hoorta]

On 2/20/2018 at 1:01 AM, Pat Mahomo said:

Peters isn't up for trade.  That rumor is from Pro football talk, and all that "rumor" is about is those guys speculating that KC traded for Fuller and signed Amerson, so since they have nothing else to do, they put out there maybe KC would be willing to trade him....literally no source, no ones said a word....pure garbage speculation to get clicks and since someone on the internet posted it...it's now taken as a rumor.  It's rediculous.  He is an elite CB on his rookie deal...there is zero reason for KC (us) to trade him.  

 

13 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

You were saying....?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000917336/article/kansas-city-chiefs-trading-marcus-peters-to-la-rams

Dang- we couldn't offer one of our second round picks for him? (Or does Dorsey know something we don't?)

Reading the article, the Rams will likely release Trumaine Johnson- UFA. He's going to be pricey- but would he be worth $10 million + ?

[The Gipper]

So much for that.   If Trumaine Johnson is released....is he a guy worth looking at?

[jrb12711]

35 minutes ago, hoorta said:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000917336/article/kansas-city-chiefs-trading-marcus-peters-to-la-rams

Dang- we couldn't offer one of our second round picks for him? (Or does Dorsey know something we don't?)

Reading the article, the Rams will likely release Trumaine Johnson- UFA. He's going to be pricey- but would he be worth $10 million + ?

Well it hasn't been released yet, but the Rams don't have a 2nd round pick this year so it's likely they gave up their 1st rounder for him. If that's the case the Browns were rightly out of the race. Definitely wouldn't have been worth a top 5 pick, and a no-brainer for the Chiefs to take a 1st rounder opposed to a 2nd rounder. Unless it's for a 2019 pick I suppose, but I'd be surprised if this wasn't the case.

I'll wait patiently to see if I have to eat crow though...

[tiamat63]

Might have interest in Trumaine...

[Pat Mahomo]

...welp...I am surprised this happend.  No FOOTBALL reason for it...here is what I know so far...and yes...I was wrong.

1. This move has to do with off field behavior related to the football team/locker room. NOT CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

2. This deal has been in the works for 3 weeks

3. The ONLY interested team is the Rams....Cleveland, Indy, and even the Niners were only mildly interested.

4. There is a report out there that one AFC leauge executive would be surprised if the Chiefs could get "a third round pick" for Peters. Take that for what it's worth.

Touching on number 3....if you are going to trade a guy, and you only have 1 trade partner, and they know it....the return on this deal is probably going to suck. Take that along with the AFC exec who said he would offer a third and that's it....and couple that with Dorsey in cleveland nad Ballard in Indy not wanting any part of it, that at least says that despite his immense talent, there are some teams who don't think he's worth it...(again....take it for what it's worth)

I want to again touch on the idea that this isn't about race...and I doubt it's exclusively about standing for the anthem. The Chiefs have a LONG history of being very racially progressive....the teams track record suggests they aren't racist and that they tolerate quite a bit of "Sheet"...so it remains to be seen what all it is that has prompted the team to want to trade an elite player in his prime.

Touching on number 2...the deal has been in the works for 3 weeks....that tells us that when they were seeking out trade partners for Alex Smith, they had this in mind...so that knowing your are working to deal Peters, you try and position yourself to get a replacement part....and that in this case is Fuller.

Still waiting for one or both teams to announce something...the silence is weird......can't even 100% confirm the deal is complete yet...you'd think something would be announced....unlike the Smith trade, that was more or less announced as soon as it was done...this must still be hung up on something/incomplete not done....so I suppose there is some micro chance it doesn't happen, but I wouldn't hold out any hope of that being the case.

Lastly...the next big thing to look for is the Rams offering an extension to Peters or not once this is done. Consider that they have guys who are on the team that they have not offered extensions to, and then if they get Peters and automatically sign a guy who just arrived and known to have some issues....that will be an interesting dynamic for the Rams....or if there is no extension offered and they just pay him his next two year before deciding to sign him back up.....watch and see how the Rams handle this contract....will be interesting.

[boo fagley]

Peters hates to tackle and is a cancer.

Cushing might be a situational player, but I would say him being a 3 down player is over.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, boo fagley said:

Peters hates to tackle and is a cancer.

Cushing might be a situational player, but I would say him being a 3 down player is over.

RE: Peters. Said it previously in this thread. Dorsey has to know the inside story, ergo- little interest.

Cushings is bleating it wasn't PEDs. Just like Joe and his adderal. On strike away from a season long ban. We already have Speedy Weedy Gordon to look out after, we don't need another one right now. 

[TexasAg1969]

16 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Might have interest in Trumaine...

That would be a major pickup in a very needy position for us. Go after him even more than Cousins. Much more realistic and a key to making this a top level defense.

[tiamat63]

17 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

That would be a major pickup in a very needy position for us. Go after him even more than Cousins. Much more realistic and a key to making this a top level defense.

Well I'm not about to throw him Cousins money and pursue him like a QB but he knows Williams' defense well, he's a physical, on-ball CB that might have the best hands (contact wise, not catching) of any DB in the NFL.         I haven't watched his 2017 tape or checked his grades but if he's anything like the guy I saw previously, I'd be willing to shell out more than a few dollars. 

[Flugel]

20 hours ago, hoorta said:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000917336/article/kansas-city-chiefs-trading-marcus-peters-to-la-rams

Dang- we couldn't offer one of our second round picks for him? (Or does Dorsey know something we don't?)

Reading the article, the Rams will likely release Trumaine Johnson- UFA. He's going to be pricey- but would he be worth $10 million + ?

Peters is like a miniature version of Burfect in terms of being a head case in spite of his tremendous talent. He got benched/disciplined for an incident where he chose "I before team" just last season. I don't even think he finished his scholarship in college for similar reasons, which narrowed down the list of interested NFL teams in his talent.  Now, one of those few teams that were interested (KC) have decided they will be better off without him regardless of Pro Bowl caliber talent.  There's 32 teams and we've just seen 1 team feeling like they offer the right situation for Peters.  While our team could use his talent - it does NOT need his "I before team" mentality going viral on a team trying to overcome 1-31 football.

As for Trumaine Johnson, I think he has some familiarity and comfort in Gregg Williams' defense from his days with the Rams.  The 1 thing I remembered about that defense was how much their secondary overmatched our WRs.  In particular we ran a bubble screen to poor little Taylor Gabriel where we had Travis Benjamin as the apex and lead blocker where the light at the end of that tunnel was the headlamp of an oncoming train. Gabriel got laid out with a vicious hit from 1 of the physical corners the Rams had.  That set the tone for the entire day and I vividly remembered one of the commentators pointing out how much of a mismatch our WR Corps was for Williams' Secondary.  IMO, we haven't given Williams those kind of grid-iron chess pieces at the back end.  Out of 32 teams, we ranked 32nd at opponents' completion percentage of 68.1%.  Even though TN decided it was time to move on from McCourtey - PFF was giving him elite ratings prior to playing the last 6-8 games on a bad ankle.  He sucked it up and played injured - but he clearly struggled with stop and go and dealing well with change of direction.  When guys reach 31-32 years of age - coming back from injury isn't as easy especially when it's an ankle (ie; Leigh Bodden).

As much as we spend all our time worrying about QB and WR, our secondary has to defend WRs like AJ Green, Antonio Brown, JuJu Smith-Schuster and others better than resorting to wishful thinking from guys incapable. One of the best draft classes SF had prior to their dynasty was when they landed the following starters in their secondary in 1981: FS Ronnie Lott (rd 1), CB Eric Wright (rd 2), SS Carlton Williamson (rd 3). As much as Bill Walsh knew the importance of the passing game, he never lost sight of the importance of defending the pass too.  I think they also added a FA. We may be able to do something similar here to improve the competitive value. We shall see.....

[Flugel]

On 2/19/2018 at 1:23 PM, tiamat63 said:

Pretty sure Williams is on record as saying Danny was a player he wanted to draft.   Also, by the numbers, our run defense is better when he's on the field - that much cannot be argued.  

Well said!   When you're getting excellent quality from your 2 DTs upfront - it can make for a very productive MLB against the run.  Consequently, Schobert improved enough to be a Pro Bowl alternate while he led the conference in tackles.  Meanwhile, whatever DT that gets the perk of lining up next to Shelton usually only has to contend with 1 blocker while Danny usually commands 2.  Prior to getting injured, Meder was very opportunistic in performing well against the run in particular.

I remembered a presser earlier on in the season where Gregg Williams was saying PFF had Ogbah ranked #1 among DEs at defending the run while he said Meder and Shelton ranked something like #2 and #6 among DTs against the run during the first 5-6 weeks or so.  Aside from that, Trevon Coley was also very efficient with his reps.  Unfortunately, when you're coming off a 1-15 season - you can't afford to lose guys like a much improved Ogbah, and Meder while guys like Shelton and Garrett were trying to play through lingering/nagging injuries. That's not an excuse - it's the reality of a team trying to rebuild itself. 

[boo fagley]

10 hours ago, hoorta said:

RE: Peters. Said it previously in this thread. Dorsey has to know the inside story, ergo- little interest.

Cushings is bleating it wasn't PEDs. Just like Joe and his adderal. On strike away from a season long ban. We already have Speedy Weedy Gordon to look out after, we don't need another one right now. 

Yup, Id be surprised if Dorsey trades for Peters. Chiefs defense sucked last year vs the pass too.

[boo fagley]

13 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

...welp...I am surprised this happend.  No FOOTBALL reason for it...here is what I know so far...and yes...I was wrong.

 

 

I notice that Zomboy has paid you a visit.

 

[gumby73]

after dorsey left KC they moved Brett Veach (50) from director of player personnel to GM..As like Belicheck, Andy Reid pulls the puppet strings attached to Brett Veach imo.(Reid has that kind of pull by now.Both know Peters "in team" better than Peters at this point) Peters has been on Andy's chit list way before Peters tossed a referee's flag into the stands.(final straw?)Peters cost Reid & his teammates 5 unsportsmanlike calls on the field..Imagine Peters locker room rants. Even the Coaches could not control him from some articles out there.Only player to sit in KC at anthem is Peters? Any Who?? this draft is not deep in top CB talent imo.M.Butler & T.Johnson & agents know it.Both are carrying a Market Value looking 13M. Kyle Fuller I don't see Bears cutting loose. Trumaine made his cake in 2015 with 71 tackles/7 picks with 136 yards. Since in 2016,57 tackles/1 pick.In 2017 (a contract season)65 tackles/2 picks with 39 yards & 1 TD. It's the norm, when you earn a name they quit throwing at you..It's a lot of dough $$ players are choosing over to come to a 1-31 team is scary vs. winning teams..Dorsey has never sat on rock bottom making these kind've of calls till now. There's a price//than there's the Cleveland price..should be interesting from the FA market which fish he can pull in & still get real talent on the field(in his opinion)..