Okay kiddies here's your inevitable gun control thread

[calfoxwc]

[calfoxwc]

[Canton Dawg]

[DieHardBrownsFan]

17 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform backgroundchecks on buyers, whether at a gun show or other venue. ... Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders and FFLs are not issued to persons that only sell firearms at gun shows.

 

So in other words, if you have a 'private stash' of weapons, you can sell them at a gun show without a background check.  Without even checking the persons ID.  Only Federal Firearms Licensed personnel are required to perform background checks.  You can sell guns out of your house as long as they are not purchased just for that purpose.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform backgroundchecks on buyers, whether at a gun show or other venue. ... Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders and FFLs are not issued to persons that only sell firearms at gun shows.

 

So in other words, if you have a 'private stash' of weapons, you can sell them at a gun show without a background check.  Without even checking the persons ID.  Only Federal Firearms Licensed personnel are required to perform background checks.  You can sell guns out of your house as long as they are not purchased just for that purpose.

now, THAT is true. I mentioned elsewhere, that that can be a problem. But requiring all private citizens to go run background checks - that's fine - but they have to be registered, and the guns have to be registered. Keeping track of registered gun shop sales is fine.

Keeping track of private sales - would also require registration of guns sold. And there goes your 2nd Amendment rights right out of the window. Because once the left finds out where all guns are, they will tax them out of people's hands who can't afford the tax, they will have home inspections for sales and weapons to be sold, they will publish the names of private sellers in the newspaper (like they published the names AND ADDRESSES of all unfortunate folks in NYC, I think it was, in the local paper. Even POLICEMEN AND POLICEWOMEN.

We've been to gun shows - and some shows, not all, allow private sellers to sell. I personally think that shouldn't be, but they can sell them privately - and that cannot be controlled. Too bad, but it's true. Private sellers cannot be registered, required to do background checks....or eventually, since they know where all the good citizens' guns are - they can enforce taking them, one way or another.

   I love background checks. The mental health problems MUST be added. Problem is, the left will fight on what constitutes a mental health issue that should preclude you from owning/buying a gun. They shouldn't be allowed to buy a car, either.

   But, you KNOW it will happen - the left will try to get every advantage they can - "if you voted for Trump - you shouldn't own a gun" "if you were ever sad, you shouldn't own a gun". "if you openly oppose illegal immigration, you shouldn't own a gun". "If you are a veteran from a war/battle zone, you shouldn't own a gun." "if you ever got in a fight in hs, you shouldn't...." "if you ever got divorced, you shouldn't".... the list of possibilities/probabilities would just keep right on growing, just like pelosi suggests that we "mow the grass" instead of building wall.

   Hey, how much grass is there along our southern border? and we are going to talk "common sense" with these lefty belligerent freaking MORONS ?

    

[DieHardBrownsFan]

On 2/22/2018 at 8:59 PM, BaconHound said:

What were the popular weapons in 1789?  Can't we simply have a logical discussion without rabid nationalism.

 

The brilliance of the US Constitution is it was never meant to be absolute, you have the Bible for that.  The authors had the idea that governance must change with the times and although not easy to do, it is necessary.  I have no issue with private citizens owning guns but believe intelligent people can agree on moderation.  

[calfoxwc]

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/02/25/in-response-to-florida-shooting-four-liberal-states-have-agreed-to-establish-a-gun-registry

that's already part of the background check system. more leftwing political theater.

and they will try to start a gun owners gun registration database. you watch.

[MLD Woody]

Can I refuse to debate things with people that believe in a magic, invisible Man in the sky?

 

 

How about we just start with allowing the CDC to research gun violence?

[calfoxwc]

especially after obaMao put corrupt leftist dirtbag deep state sombeitches all over our gov,

the CDC is another political hack org because of certain people in it.

https://anticorruptionsociety.com/center-for-disease-control-exposed/

and,

https://ctmirror.org/2014/02/04/gun-control-activists-shift-tactics/

and,

American gun owners are not a disease, and are not a danger to public safety.

[MLD Woody]

The CDC researched vehicle fatalities, we made changes, and it helped. Cars aren't a disease either.

 

You can't just scream everything you don't like in the govt is "liberal" to shield yourself from conclusions you don't like. 

That's sounds like a snowflake and their safe space if I've ever heard it...

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

The CDC researched vehicle fatalities, we made changes, and it helped. Cars aren't a disease either.

 

You can't just scream everything you don't like in the govt is "liberal" to shield yourself from conclusions you don't like. 

That's sounds like a snowflake and their safe space if I've ever heard it...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/vehicles-are-becoming-weapons-choice-terrorists-n768846

Gosh, looks like we need to have another study. These guys must not have heard about the other one.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The CDC researched vehicle fatalities, we made changes, and it helped. Cars aren't a disease either.

 

You can't just scream everything you don't like in the govt is "liberal" to shield yourself from conclusions you don't like. 

That's sounds like a snowflake and their safe space if I've ever heard it...

oh, thought you had me on ignore, liar sack of bird poop woodypeckerhead.

The CDC isn't a safety commission. Notice how many states ended up with that latest flu ?

asswhole.

[calfoxwc]

Here, woodypeckerhead -

  the CDC SCIENTISTS say that agency has perpetrated FRAUD.

https://www.ecowatch.com/cdc-corruption-robert-kennedy-jr-2096438139.html

CDC Scientists Expose Agency Corruption

 

Last month, The Hill published a letter sent by "more than a dozen" senior Center for Disease Control (CDC) scientists charging the agency with nursing an atmosphere of pervasive research fraud.

The group, which claimed to represent scientists across the CDC's diverse branches, calls itself SPIDER (Scientists Preserving Integrity, Diligence and Ethics in Research). The letter to CDC Chief of Staff, Carmen Villar, expressed alarm "about the current state of ethics at our agency." The scientists complained that "our mission is being influenced and shaped by outside parties and rogue interests" and "circumvented by some of our leaders."

The scientists told Villar that, "questionable and unethical practices, occurring at all levels and in all of our respective units, threaten to undermine our credibility and reputation as a trusted leader in public health." The letter charged that staff level scientists "are intimidated and pressed to do things they know are not right," and that, "Senior management officials at CDC are clearly aware and even condone these behaviors."

The scientists cited several recent scandals involving scientific corruption at CDC.

• They describe a "cover up," by officials, of mismanagement in CDC's Wise Woman Program, which provides screening in low income neighborhoods for heart disease, diabetes and other chronic health disorders. According to the letter, CDC officials purposefully misrepresented screening numbers in documents they sent to Congress to conceal failures in the multimillion dollar project. "... definitions were changed and data 'cooked' to make the results look better than they were." The scientists accused high level CDC bosses of suppressing the results of an internal review, involving staff across the CDC, "so media and/or Congressional staff would not become aware of the problems." As part of the systematic cover up, CDC then engaged in a coordinated effort to "bury" these deceptions. "CDC staff has gone out of its way to delay FOIAs and obstruct any inquiry."

• The scientists also complain about the "troubling" adventures of Dr. Barbara Bowman, director of CDC's Division for Heart Disease and Stroke Prevention, and Dr. Michael Pratt, Senior Advisor for Global Health at the NCCDPHP. Bowman recently left the CDC following shocking media disclosures that the pair had manipulated scientific studies on soft drink safety in collusion with Coca Cola. The CDC flimflam was part of Coke's campaign to pressure the World Health Organization to relax guidelines for sugar consumption by children in developing nations where the soda industry is aggressively expanding its markets.

The scientists complain that the "climate of disregard" at CDC puts "many" agency scientists in difficult positions. "We are often directed to do things we know are not right." The public record supports SPIDER's allegations that scientists who insist on research integrity suffer persecution by CDC supervisors.

• On Sept. 27, the Office of Special Counsel, an independent federal investigative and prosecutorial agency, announced further investigation of corruption in the agency's Zika testing program. That investigation arose from disclosures by laboratory chief Dr. Robert Lanciotti, supervisor of the CDC's prestigious Fort Collins, Colorado lab, that his CDC supervisors were deliberately using a Zika test that agency officials knew would underestimate the number of Zika cases nationwide by some 40 percent. Dr. Lanciotti initially raised the issues internally at CDC and in an email to state public health officials in April 2016. In May, his CDC supervisor responded to this boat rocking by demoting Lanciotti to a non-supervisory position within his lab. Dr. Lanciotti filed a whistleblower claim alleging that his punishment was retaliation for his disclosures. After its initial investigation, the U.S. Office of Special Counsel forced the CDC to reinstate Dr. Lanciotti as lab chief.

• In a 2010 scandal that predated the Flint, Michigan tragedy, Congress found that the CDC had deliberately manipulated scientific documents and purposefully made inaccurate claims about the safety of Washington, DC drinking water in order to mislead DC residents into believing that their water was safe. The congressional committee found that the CDC's deceit had caused thousands of DC residents to drink water highly contaminated with lead for years to the detriment of their health. As with the Coca Cola and Wise Woman Program scandals, the immediate victims of CDC scientific fraud and mismanagement were disproportionately poor and minority.

• In August 2014, CDC senior vaccine safety scientist, Dr. William Thompson, invoked federal whistleblower status and testified to Congressman William Posey that his CDC supervisors had ordered him to destroy data and manipulate studies to conceal injuries to black children from certain vaccines. According to Thompson's testimony to Congressman Posey, data analyzed by Thompson and a team of scientists for a key study showed that black boys who received the MMR vaccine on schedule, had a 250% increase in autism diagnoses. The data also pointed to the vaccine as a culprit in the epidemic of regressive autism in both white and black children. A high level CDC official, Dr. Frank DeStefano, ordered Thompson and his fellow scientists to destroy that data in a large garbage can and omit the damning findings from the published study. That study has been cited more than 110 times in published studies on PubMed, and forms the cornerstone of the CDC's orthodoxy that vaccines don't cause autism.

• One of the key figures in the cover up described by Dr. Thompson is the Director of the National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, Dr. Colleen Boyle. Boyle's seminal career coup at the CDC was orchestrating the cover up of Agent Orange and dioxin toxicity in the 1970s. Boyle's handiwork deprived thousands of Vietnam veterans of health benefits until her fraud was uncovered and exposed in comprehensive investigations by Congress and the Institute of Medicine (IOM). Instead of punishing Boyle for corruption and scientific fraud, the CDC rewarded her with a powerful directorship. From that platform, Boyle has managed the CDC's cover up of the vaccine-autism connection.

The recent SPIDER letter highlights the culture of deep-rooted scientific corruption that has metastasized across CDC and become the subject of a decade- long parade of investigations.

• On Aug. 23, 2000, following a three year investigation, a House Government Reform Committee staff report criticized the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the CDC for routinely allowing scientists with conflicts of interest to serve on two influential advisory committees that make recommendations on vaccine policy. The report concluded that, "the majority of members of both committees have financial ties to vaccine manufacturers or hold patents on vaccines under development."

• Three years later, a 2003 investigation by UPI's Mark Benjamin found that CDC had ignored Congress's recommendations for reform, which stated: "Members of the CDC's Vaccine Advisory Committee get money from vaccine manufacturers. Relationships have included: sharing a vaccine patent; owning stock in a vaccine company; payments for research; getting money to monitor manufacturer vaccine tests; and funding academic departments."

• A year later, in May of 2004, Special Counsel Scott Bloch, of the U.S. Office of Special Counsel, sent a letter to Congress urging congressional action on evidence of scientific fraud in the CDC's vaccine division. Bloch described possible collusion between CDC officials and pharmaceutical companies to manipulate and destroy data in order to conceal the links between mercury-preserved vaccines and the exploding incidence of pediatric neurological disorders including autism.

• A month later, on June 18, 2004, Congressman Dave Weldon, MD took to the House floor to accuse CDC of failing to reform: "A public relations campaign, rather than sound science, seems to be the modus operandi of officials at the CDC's National Immunization Program." Congressman Weldon concluded that, "The CDC is too conflicted to oversee this vaccine safety function."

• In January 2006, amidst the corruption scandals, the prestigious journal Nature editorialized in reference to vaccine safety that, "there is a strong case for a well-resourced independent agency that commands the trust of both the government and the public."

• A year later, in 2007, Weldon and Democratic Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney introduced the Vaccine Safety and Public Confidence Assurance Act of 2007, a bill to create a new agency to supervise vaccine safety that reported directly to the Secretary of U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and to mandate independent vaccine safety research. Weldon declared that, despite all the scandals and investigations, there were no signs of reform at CDC. "Federal agencies charged with overseeing vaccine safety research have failed," he said. "They have failed to provide sufficient resources for vaccine safety research. They have failed to adequately fund extramural research. And, they have failed to free themselves from conflicts of interest that serve to undermine public confidence in the safety of vaccines."

• In June of that year, U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn, of the Senate Subcommittee on Federal Financial Management, published "CDC Off Center," yet another lengthy exposé of corruption and mismanagement at CDC. The report detailed "how an agency tasked with fighting disease has spent hundreds of millions of tax dollars for failed prevention efforts, international junkets, and lavish facilities, but cannot demonstrate it is controlling disease."

• In December 2009, the HHS Inspector General published the results of a lengthy investigation of corruption in the CDC's vaccine division. That shocking report painted the CDC as a hopelessly corrupted arm of the pharmaceutical industry. It described, in detail, mismanagement, dysfunction and the alarming conflicts of interest that suborn the CDC's research, regulatory and policymaking functions. The report discloses how CDC allows vaccine industry profiteers to make millions of dollars by serving on advisory boards that add new vaccines to the schedule. In a typical example, Dr. Paul Offit, in 1999, sat on the CDC's vaccine advisory committee and voted to add the rotavirus vaccine to CDC's schedule, paving the way for him to make a fortune on his own rotavirus vaccine patent. Offit and his business partners sold the royalties to his rotavirus vaccine patent to Merck in 2006 for $182 million. Offit told Newsweek, "It was like winning the lottery!" HHS investigation revealed that 97% of CDC's scientific committee members failed to complete the mandatory conflict of interest disclosures and that as many as 64% of committee members disclosed conflicts of interest that were not acted upon by the CDC.

• In 2014, the chief of the HHS Office of Research Integrity (ORI), David Wright, announced his resignation in a scathing letter that characterized HHS as a remarkably dysfunctional agency. ORI's function is to monitor research misconduct including, "falsification" and "fabrication" of science at the CDC, FDA and other public health agencies. Calling the post, "The very worst job I've ever had," Wright decried an "intensely political environment" where his supervisors told him that his job was to be a "team player" and "to make my bosses look good" and where he spent "exorbitant amounts of time in meetings and in generating repetitive and often meaningless data and reports to make our precinct of the bureaucracy look productive," rather than pursuing its mission of detecting and punishing scientific fraud.

Given this long history of deeply entrenched scientific chicanery at the CDC, it's no surprise that scientists are now complaining. If Donald Trump is sincere about his promise to "Drain the Swamp" in the federal bureaucracy, he should begin by appointing an honest and able CDC director who can restore transparency, credibility, robust science and regulatory independence at the agency and who will turn around the culture of corruption that has been so damaging to children's health.

 

 

[calfoxwc]

the current cdc director - obamao.  came in 2015.

no wonder they are not allowed to do a political leftwing hit piece on a fake "gun study"

[MLD Woody]

4 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/vehicles-are-becoming-weapons-choice-terrorists-n768846

Gosh, looks like we need to have another study. These guys must not have heard about the other one.

WSS

and?

[Westside Steve]

5 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

and?

And nothing. Get the CDC on it. I'm sure it will all be over in a few weeks.

Just for Laughs why don't you list two or three areas that research could provide answers and solutions to?

Just remember if you're serious, which is dubious, that though we can find ways to make automobiles safer even the safest automobile is deadly when driven into a Crowd by a one in a few million lunatic.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

On 2/24/2018 at 3:32 PM, calfoxwc said:

 

 

[MLD Woody]

5 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

And nothing. Get the CDC on it. I'm sure it will all be over in a few weeks.

Just for Laughs why don't you list two or three areas that research could provide answers and solutions to?

Just remember if you're serious, which is dubious, that though we can find ways to make automobiles safer even the safest automobile is deadly when driven into a Crowd by a one in a few million lunatic.

WSS

No one is saying everything will be fixed "in a few weeks". You act like a typical Steve and there's no reason to bother replying to you really...

 

No one is denying a car can be used as a weapon. I don't know how many times we've been over the car vs gun thing and why it's a bad comparison for pro gun people...

[Canton Dawg]

23 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Can I refuse to debate things with people that believe in a magic, invisible Man in the sky?

Who said God was a man??

Aren't you millennials supposed to be gender neutral?

[Westside Steve]

39 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

No one is saying everything will be fixed "in a few weeks". You act like a typical Steve and there's no reason to bother replying to you really...

 

No one is denying a car can be used as a weapon. I don't know how many times we've been over the car vs gun thing and why it's a bad comparison for pro gun people...

A bad comparison would be like comparing automobile safety and less traffic deaths without taking into account the lunatics that drive cars into crowds. That has nothing to do with automobile safety, except for the fact that the lunatic might have less injuries due to a seat belt and an airbag. Not the victims of course Just like gun safety requiring child locks or fingerprint detectors won't have any effect on the lunatic that wants to kill people. It's a waste of time the does absolutely nothing for the problem at hand except for the waste time that could be used trying to find any real remedy. But it makes morons feel like they're doing something special.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

Who said God was a man??

Aren't you millennials supposed to be gender neutral?

Stop appropriating our meme culture

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

A bad comparison would be like comparing automobile safety and less traffic deaths without taking into account the lunatics that drive cars into crowds. That has nothing to do with automobile safety, except for the fact that the lunatic might have less injuries due to a seat belt and an airbag. Not the victims of course Just like gun safety requiring child locks or fingerprint detectors won't have any effect on the lunatic that wants to kill people. It's a waste of time the does absolutely nothing for the problem at hand except for the waste time that could be used trying to find any real remedy. But it makes morons feel like they're doing something special.

WSS

No you're missing the point. The CDC researched automobile accidents, we made changes based on this research, and we saw positive results. I'm saying we should have the CDC do the same with gun violence.

Unless your head is so far up the right wing butt, and you think everything is a plot by liberals to take guns, I don't see how you could be against learning and information. We need data and knowledge to drive our decision making process. Unfortunately some politicians are so bought by the NRA that they're against just researching the problem.... Which is insane

[Westside Steve]

28 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

No you're missing the point. The CDC researched automobile accidents, we made changes based on this research, and we saw positive results. I'm saying we should have the CDC do the same with gun violence.

 what changes came from the study by the CDC that would hinder a crazy person from driving an automobile into a crowd?

Unless your head is so far up the right wing butt, and you think everything is a plot by liberals to take guns, I don't see how you could be against learning and information. We need data and knowledge to drive our decision making process. Unfortunately some politicians are so bought by the NRA that they're against just researching the problem.... Which is insane

 what's insane is demanding a study that has nothing to do with the real problem which is crazy people. Except for to pat yourself on the back and pretend you've done something because, well knowledge must be good right? 

WSS

[MLD Woody]

I can't tell if you're being purposefully obtuse now or not....

Driving an automobile into a  crowd has nothing to do with what I am trying to get across. I get that you want to keep bringing it up to steer the conversation in a different direction. You do that a lot. 

 

No, it's insane to refuse to study the issue of gun violence at all because, as a politician, you're bought and paid for by the NRA or as an individual, you're politically biased and delusional. A study could find links between violence/shootings/etc and types of weapons, means of sale, backgrounds, etc. It could point out some of the big flaws in the system and make suggestions with crazy people getting weapons. It could show more "good guys with a gun" may  help a ton. Who knows. But all people do now is cherry pick whatever data fits their agenda and go from there. There's absolutely no reason to not study the issue. 

You just assuming something won't make a difference, so let's not bother, comes up a lot in your arguments. 

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

I can't tell if you're being purposefully obtuse now or not....

Driving an automobile into a  crowd has nothing to do with what I am trying to get across. I get that you want to keep bringing it up to steer the conversation in a different direction. You do that a lot. 

 

No, it's insane to refuse to study the issue of gun violence at all because, as a politician, you're bought and paid for by the NRA or as an individual, you're politically biased and delusional. A study could find links between violence/shootings/etc and types of weapons, means of sale, backgrounds, etc. It could point out some of the big flaws in the system and make suggestions with crazy people getting weapons. It could show more "good guys with a gun" may  help a ton. Who knows. But all people do now is cherry pick whatever data fits their agenda and go from there. There's absolutely no reason to not study the issue. 

You just assuming something won't make a difference, so let's not bother, comes up a lot in your arguments. 

Perhaps, just for that very reason, the situation needs more prayer.

 

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[calfoxwc]

16 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

A study could find links between violence/shootings/etc and types of weapons, means of sale, backgrounds, etc. It could point out some of the big flaws in the system and make suggestions with crazy people getting weapons. It could show more "good guys with a gun" may  help a ton. Who knows. But all people do now is cherry pick whatever data fits their agenda and go from there. There's absolutely no reason to not study the issue. 

yes, there is, cherry-picking woodpecker. The CDC, like obamao's FBI, DOJ, EPA and CIA has leftovers from his corrupt regime.

I showed where the CDC has zero cred.

The Hippaa law, that stops the information about legit, serious pertinent mental illness issues from getting into the background system was passed in 1996. Guess who the pres was? BILL CLINTON.

The Gun Free Schools Act was passed in 1994. President? BILL CLINTON

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_Schools_Act_of_1994

Liberals don't solve problems with laws, they create more problems.

That means problem solving was not their intention in the first place.

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Alright. You don't let the small number of 13 year olds eating Tide pods for likes edit the Constitution (which itself is a meme and a joke) and I say we don't like people that believe in creationism, whatever the religion, prevent it from being edited. Cool?

[MLD Woody]

Yes Cal, everything out of govt you don't like is a liberal conspiracy and that blog you linked to proves it. Got it.

[medicineman]

Does anybody else find it strange that stations are still interviewing this Hogg fag?  He is not an authority on guns.