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Saquon Barkley Combine Bound

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15 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

He's highly touted on all the draft boards,  but compared to zeke he didn't do sheet.  Zeke dominated the playoffs.  Barkley hasn't shown that level,  not consistently against the top teams.   

I swear to God it's like you people don't even know how the google machine works.

Barkley: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/saquon-barkley-1.html

Zeke: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ezekiel-elliott-1.html

And you'd realize their stats are actually alarmingly similar. They scored the exact same amount of rushing TD's and within 100 yards of each other in rushing yards. Barkley decisively has the edge in receiving TD's as well and only has a lower YPC clip as he rushed over 100 times more than Zeke did.

If you don't like a guy, that's fine. This has not for me ever been a love fest for Barkley. But jesus christ, at least try to make a case for yourself.

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59 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

I swear to God it's like you people don't even know how the google machine works.

Barkley: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/saquon-barkley-1.html

Zeke: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ezekiel-elliott-1.html

And you'd realize their stats are actually alarmingly similar. They scored the exact same amount of rushing TD's and within 100 yards of each other in rushing yards. Barkley decisively has the edge in receiving TD's as well and only has a lower YPC clip as he rushed over 100 times more than Zeke did.

If you don't like a guy, that's fine. This has not for me ever been a love fest for Barkley. But jesus christ, at least try to make a case for yourself.

The case has been made many times over. Curiously, I have never seen you respond to one of my long posts breaking down his rather pathetic YPCs when subtracting fluke plays.

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Bottom line on Barkley:

If he is there at #4....he may be worth considering. But RB...unlike QB is NOT an essential need that high in the draft.  A more critical need would be a defensive backfielder....CB or Safety.

Now...the question is:   does "talent" outweigh "need"?    Sometimes it can......but is the supposed talents of Barkley far greater than those of say Minkah Fitzpatrick or Derwin James....or some other defenders...such that we can ignore the need in favor of the talent?    

Do all of you....or do the "experts"  have a clear picture on this situation? 

So those are the option this GM must weigh:

A. Is Barkley really so much more talented than the DBs....or is he not?

B. If so...do we go that route....and ignore our more dire need? 

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Just now, The Gipper said:

Bottom line on Barkley:

If he is there at #4....he may be worth considering. But RB...unlike QB is NOT an essential need that high in the draft.  A more critical need would be a defensive backfielder....CB or Safety.

Now...the question is:   does "talent" outweigh "need"?    Sometimes it can......but is the supposed talents of Barkley far greater than those of say Minkah Fitzpatrick or Derwin James....or some other defenders...such that we can ignore the need in favor of the talent?    

Do all of you....or do the "experts"  have a clear picture on this situation?   (by the way...I would like a real opinion on this...not PoGs...he can just STFU)

So those are the option this GM must weigh:

A. Is Barkley really so much more talented than the DBs....or is he not?

B. If so...do we go that route....and ignore our more dire need? 

 

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1 hour ago, wargograw said:

 

The case has been made many times over. Curiously, I have never seen you respond to one of my long posts breaking down his rather pathetic YPCs when subtracting fluke plays.

....because I've made my case several times over that I don't have an opinion on Barkley one way or the other. All I've said all along is to make a blanket statement that he's not a top tier prospect is absurd. 

What happened to you man? You used to be a high quality poster but lately it's like you turned into Ghoolie.

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13 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

I swear to God it's like you people don't even know how the google machine works.

Barkley: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/saquon-barkley-1.html

Zeke: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ezekiel-elliott-1.html

And you'd realize their stats are actually alarmingly similar. They scored the exact same amount of rushing TD's and within 100 yards of each other in rushing yards. Barkley decisively has the edge in receiving TD's as well and only has a lower YPC clip as he rushed over 100 times more than Zeke did.

If you don't like a guy, that's fine. This has not for me ever been a love fest for Barkley. But jesus christ, at least try to make a case for yourself.

I like him,  I just don't think he's anything close to zeke and him at #1 over the qb of choice is insane. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2015/1/13/7536113/ezekiel-elliott-national-championship-game-record

Look at the yardage he put up his last 3 games  vs Wisconsin Oregon and Bama. Averaged 232 yds a game against the three best teams...   3 championship / playoff games.  Show me 3 opponents in a row of any caliber that barkley did that to in 2017.  I'm not saying he won't be good,  but zeke wouldn't have 3 games in a row under 65 yds like SB. 

 

 

 

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It's so funny that some guys just can't or don't want to "get it".... here read it for yourself, from an article on August 18th, 2015.

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Ezekiel Elliott and the Ohio State offensive line could make most quarterbacks look good.

For all the headlines generated by the Buckeyes' ability to replace a star quarterback with another star quarterback last season, the development of the running game was every bit as important to Ohio State's national championship season.

No matter if J.T. Barrett or Cardale Jones takes snaps for the Buckeyes this season, Elliott could be the focal point of Ohio State's offense. The junior ran for 1,878 yards and 18 touchdowns last year and enters this season on pretty much every list of Heisman Trophy hopefuls.

At the start of last season, Elliott and an offensive line breaking in four new starters struggled to get rolling. In a September home loss to Virginia Tech, Elliott ran eight times for 32 yards. But when Ohio State turned it on down the stretch, Elliott and the offensive line were dominant.

''Zeke was the exact same player all year, but then the people around him just needed to play better in order for him to really show what he was capable of,'' tackle Taylor Decker said.

Elliott had 153 yards and two scores at Michigan State, then had three 200-yard games in the postseason. Against Wisconsin, Alabama and Oregon, Elliott ran for 698 yards and eight touchdowns.

''The key with Zeke is if you can get him to the second level, his skill set at the second level is unbelievable,'' offensive line coach and co-offensive coordinator Ed Warinner said.

The offensive line now returns four starters, including Decker, who considered entering the NFL draft early before deciding to return to Columbus, and guard Pat Elflein. There might not be a better group of blockers in the country.

''I think we're definitely farther along than we were last year at this point, especially from a chemistry standpoint and an experience standpoint,'' Decker said.

 

--------------------

So, is it any wonder why Zeke's stats were so inflated? Imagine what a much more athletic and skilled player like Barkley would have done with Ohio State's Offensive Line. Teams began to key in on Barkley and his offensive line struggled. Penn State used this to their advantage and began to get the ball to Barkley in other ways, one of the reasons that his receptions and yards exponentially increased each season. 

Barkley is the most skilled and athletic player regardless of position coming out this year. He's a freak. Fast, Strong and Elusive are just the tip of the iceberg. He's also incredibly Grounded and Hardworking. Intelligent and Humble. He's a leader on and off the field. He's the total package and completely worthy of the number 1 pick of the draft, regardless of position. He will raise the play of nearly every player on the entire team, offense - defense - special teams... he may even help Hue Jackson at being an NFL coach. 

There are 6 QBs that have first round grades. In my order of best to okay- Mayfield, Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Jackson and Rudolph. And to be honest I haven't even had a chance to look at Rudolph yet so that's why he's at the bottom. But with that many QBs if you can't take Barkley #1 and still get a great QB- you should honestly start looking for a new job. 

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On 2/7/2018 at 10:38 PM, hoorta said:

OK, 22 pages of Saquon was getting unwieldy. Apparently one of our respected posters was really angry I locked the thread- even though he was outvoted 3-1.  :)  So here's your thread to talk Barkley all you want, just keep it to new material.   

That or cut down on the ecstasy before posting.  I'm just thankful the music in his videos didn't include Air Supply, not to be confused with taking 1 Barkley fan's breath away.... 

Does anyone have any videos of Barkley running well inside of the tackles against a good defense?  I remember back when Reggie Bush was supposed to be the next GREAT RB to be considered at #1 overall.  Houston did the unthinkable and drafted Mario Williams first while Bush was drafted #2 overall.  Nothing ever made Houston sorry for doing so.  Bush had a good career and was a nice receiver out of the backfield but never performed like the #1 overall pick he was supposed to be.  He made some good contributions particularly as a receiver out of the backfield in his role in the RB Committee of 3 Payton used all the way to a Superbowl Championship.  Today, Payton got this kind of RB in round 3 while his RB committee is only a party of 2.  The Rookie of the Year in both conferences were both 3rd round RBs while 2018 is also supposed to be deep/strong at RB.

I think Barkley is an intriguing prospect but not enough to kick whatever QB our FO deems as the right guy for Cleveland off our door step.   That's playing leapfrog with a unicorn without the vaseline.  I speak from the experience of watching us trade up for Trent Richardson at #3 while giving it the ole "okay we can make Brandon Weeden a 1st rd QB as the 4th one to come off the board."  Meanwhile, the 2nd and 3rd QBs off the board in the 2012 draft didn't turn out much better.

If we start the RUN on QBs at #1 overall - guess who dictates this draft?   Cleveland!  These runs on various positions especially one as important as QB has a way of reminding us supply and demand has a way of hurdling the BPA thing.

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On 2/8/2018 at 8:36 PM, gumby73 said:

Kent State RB Dri Archer ran a 4.26 40 at the combine & was out of league in a year & a half..10 rushes for 40 yards & 23 passing yards..a 3rd round pick that would rather fall down than take a hit..speeds good till ya get caught

And we traded Earnest Byner to the Washington Redskins for the 4.3 forties of Mike Oliphant.  The RB who ran the 4.65 forties at East Carolina became the Pro Bowl Workhorse RB of Joe Gibbs' SB Champions while we got the 175 pound former track star from Puget Sound.  Byner made 2 Pro Bowls in Washington...

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10 hours ago, PoeticG said:

But with that many QBs if you can't take Barkley #1 and still get a great QB- you should honestly start looking for a new job. 

None of that gets me pumped up about watching 2 QBs get drafted before we're reduced to the 3rd one off the board when we could have had the pick of the litter at #1 overall.   There's 2 RBs just on Georgia that had better yards per carry while this is an even deeper draft at RB than it is at QB.

And give me a break with your angle that Penn State had inferior blocking/personnel, especially when they beat Ohio State in 2016 before going on to win the Big 10 Championship.  They've given McSorely enough time to throw for 29 TD to 8 INT with 7 TD rushing in 2016 and 28 TD to 10 INT with 11 TD rushing in 2017.  I just find it interesting that between Barkley and McSorely - you recently felt compelled to enough to alibi/explain why Barkley found running inside more challenging than McSorely did. And you actually blamed McSorely for it when he's been coached up on his inside option keys and reads with text book execution. So, the offensive line was ONLY good at opening holes inside when McSorely ran the ball?  Don't look now - but you might be describing the very next Reggie Bush.   If so, his role as a Receiver out of the backfield means you want us replacing Duke Johnson first and foremost?  

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On 2/9/2018 at 7:56 AM, jrb12711 said:

I swear to God it's like you people don't even know how the google machine works.

Barkley: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/saquon-barkley-1.html

Zeke: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ezekiel-elliott-1.html

And you'd realize their stats are actually alarmingly similar. They scored the exact same amount of rushing TD's and within 100 yards of each other in rushing yards. Barkley decisively has the edge in receiving TD's as well and only has a lower YPC clip as he rushed over 100 times more than Zeke did.

If you don't like a guy, that's fine. This has not for me ever been a love fest for Barkley. But jesus christ, at least try to make a case for yourself.

Probably the way a crackhead might look at it.

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9 hours ago, Flugel said:

If we start the RUN on QBs at #1 overall - guess who dictates this draft?   Cleveland!  These runs on various positions especially one as important as QB has a way of reminding us supply and demand has a way of hurdling the BPA thing.

That's a very interesting idea, Flugel. I had never thought of it when facing this draft. 

I bet that if we draft a QB with #1 and Giants do too, a team is going to get nervous and make an irresistible final offer to the Colts and get another QB, allowing us to get whoever we want to with #4.

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53 minutes ago, Nero said:

That's a very interesting idea, Flugel. I had never thought of it when facing this draft. 

I bet that if we draft a QB with #1 and Giants do too, a team is going to get nervous and make an irresistible final offer to the Colts and get another QB, allowing us to get whoever we want to with #4.

I only suggested it about four times in the locked thread, Nero. :) PO just can't comprehend it's a definite possibility.

The key (assuming we take a QB #1) is if the Giants think Manning still has enough gas in the tank to make a serious playoff run with a healthy Odell Beckham and Barkley. My thinking is not, they'd be crazy to not grab Eli's replacement when they have the chance.

I've already said the Colts will be open for business in a trade down with either the Broncos (Elway was scouting Mayfield and Allen at the Seinor Bowl) or the Jets. Buffalo has two first round picks and could be in the mix. Bidding war? Good possibility, they'll know Cleveland already has their QB, and aren't taking one @ #4. 

OTOH, I'm with Flugels we take Barkley first then we could be looking at the third choice QB at #4. I'm not willing to take that chance, and pretty sure Dorsey isn't either.

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17 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I only suggested it about four times in the locked thread, Nero. :) PO just can't comprehend it's a definite possibility.

The key (assuming we take a QB #1) is if the Giants think Manning still has enough gas in the tank to make a serious playoff run with a healthy Odell Beckham and Barkley. My thinking is not, they'd be crazy to not grab Eli's replacement when they have the chance.

I've already said the Colts will be open for business in a trade down with either the Broncos (Elway was scouting Mayfield and Allen at the Seinor Bowl) or the Jets. Buffalo has two first round picks and could be in the mix. Bidding war? Good possibility, they'll know Cleveland already has their QB, and aren't taking one @ #4. 

OTOH, I'm with Flugels we take Barkley first then we could be looking at the third choice QB at #4. I'm not willing to take that chance, and pretty sure Dorsey isn't either.

Well, I have to acknowledge that I've mentioned many times that I see first 3 picks being QBs, but I never view it from the 'Browns picked a QB on #1' perspective. That's what I was trying to state on my post. 

But have a cookie you too ;) 

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Alright let's try to deduce this 2018 NFL DRAFT. These are the top 10 selections. Let's just look at who these teams have at QB and the team needs. Only 3 teams come away as having QB being #1 Need, those teams are bolded: CLE - DEN - JETS. It could be argued that NYG could be looking at getting Eli's replacement as well but that is not a given, however, the Giants new HC, Pat Shurmur seems to believe in Manning at least for the foreseeable future. 

 

Round 1 Pick 1: CLE - Deshone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, Cody Kessler

Round 1 Pick 2: NYG - Eli Manning, Davis Webb
Round 1 Pick 3: IND - Andrew Luck, Jacoby Brissett, Scott Tolzien, Brad Kayaa, Phillip Walker
Round 1 Pick 4: CLE - 
Round 1 Pick 5: DEN - Paxton Lynch, Brock Osweiler, Trevor Seimian, Chad Kelly 
Round 1 Pick 6: NYJ - Josh McCown, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, Joel Stave

Round 1 Pick 7: T.B. - Jameis Winston, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Griffin
Round 1 Pick 8: CHI - Mitchell Trubisky, Mike Glennon, Mark Sanchez
Round 1 Pick 9: S.F. - Jimmy Garropollo, C.J. Beathard, Nick Mullens 

Round 1 Pick 10: OAK - Derek Carr, E.J. Manual, Connor Cook 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There has been a lot of speculation that if Cleveland takes a QB at #1 that it will set up the market for QBs to go 1, 2, 3. The flaw that I find in this scenario is this. I'm not going to put names to the QBs in which order because everybody has their own list. For this purpose, we'll just use QB1, QB2, ect. Here's what that looks like. In this case CLE takes a QB, NY drafts Eli's successor and Denver/NYJ trades up with Indy to get QB #3... the QB #4 would then go to #5/#6 depending on which team "wins" the trade up war. The team that "loses" will be left with either Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield or Allen(Jackson and Rudolph also in play here)... oh the plight. This is my IDEAL scenario, however I can't 

CLE- QB1

NYG- QB2

IND-DEN/NYJ- (TRADE) QB3 

CLE- RB

DEN/IND- QB4

NYJ/IND- QB4

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let's look at it this way. If Cleveland "sets" the market by taking a QB #1 and it causes 3 QBs to go 1, 2, 3. Why wouldn't it also have the opposite effect if Cleveland perceived ability to effect what the other teams will do is accurate. 

CLE- RB

NYG- QB1

IND- EDGE

CLE- QB2

DEN- QB3

NYJ- QB4

*In this scenario Denver and NYJ both end up with the exact same positions without trading up. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So in an attempt to set the market, Cleveland takes QB1 and NY goes off and drafts it's RB to compliment it's Franchise Qb. This reduces the incentive of DEN/JETS to trade up with the INDY because they are already getting a better selection than they would have had if QBs go 1, 2, 3... 

CLE- QB1

NYG- RB

IND- EDGE

CLE- 

DEN- QB2

NYJ- QB3

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

None of these projections even take into account the Kirk factor. Let's say Den or Jets get Cousins- this decreases the incentive to trade up even more.

CLE- QB1

NYG- RB

IND- EDGE - without a trade partner now because which ever team took cousins, it leaves the other team with QB2 without trading a thing. 

CLE-

DEN- (KIRK) QB2

NYJ- (KIRK) QB2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Cleveland takes the runningback #1 it changes how everyone looks at the board. 

CLE- RB

NYG- trade to Jets/Den - QB1- The Giants #1 NEED is RB. If Cleveland takes that option away maybe they trade to one of the teams that didn't get Cousins. 

IND- EDGE

CLE- QB2

DEN- KIRK(QB3)

NYJ- KIRK(QB3)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I need a break. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, PoeticG said:

I need a break. 

so do we;)..quit passing on a 3 year starter in Cousins..Would almost lock Browns with Barkley at #1.Take a Playmaker at 4 or take both of Bills #1 picks. Zona maybe on line 2? draft Kurt Benkert to sit behind Cousins..  

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3 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

so do we;)..

Welp, back to work! lol 

 

Here's an amazing video of every TD by Barkley during his college career in chronological order. Pretty exciting. Not a highlight tape, simply his TDs in order. You get to see his ability to run up the middle, outside and his receiving skill on display. 

 

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2 hours ago, PoeticG said:

There has been a lot of speculation that if Cleveland takes a QB at #1 that it will set up the market for QBs to go 1, 2, 3. The flaw that I find in this scenario is this. I'm not going to put names to the QBs in which order because everybody has their own list. For this purpose, we'll just use QB1, QB2, ect. Here's what that looks like. In this case CLE takes a QB, NY drafts Eli's successor and Denver/NYJ trades up with Indy to get QB #3... the QB #4 would then go to #5/#6 depending on which team "wins" the trade up war. The team that "loses" will be left with either Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield or Allen(Jackson and Rudolph also in play here)... oh the plight. This is my IDEAL scenario, however I can't 

CLE- QB1

NYG- QB2

IND-DEN/NYJ- (TRADE) QB3 

CLE- RB

DEN/IND- QB4

NYJ/IND- QB4

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let's look at it this way. If Cleveland "sets" the market by taking a QB #1 and it causes 3 QBs to go 1, 2, 3. Why wouldn't it also have the opposite effect if Cleveland perceived ability to effect what the other teams will do is accurate. 

CLE- RB

NYG- QB1

IND- EDGE

CLE- QB2

DEN- QB3

NYJ- QB4

*In this scenario Denver and NYJ both end up with the exact same positions without trading up. 

I need a break. 

 

:D God Bless Ya!  You don't need a break.  You just need to exhale and listen. The flaw in your 2nd scenario assumes Elway and others won't try to trade up and draft the 2nd QB off the board at Indy's 3rd spot before we draft. Dorsey wasn't hired to pick the 3rd QB off the board when we hold the 1st and 4th pick. 

Your Barkley is a talented kid; but he's NOT perfect enough to make anyone in need of a QB bypass the QB at 1 and 2 overall.  The run on QBs is underway and Cleveland has caused it. 

Now, there's a team in Buffalo with 2 first round draft picks (#21 and #22) that your 2nd scenario dismissed entirely or forgot about that may be desperate enough to sweeten the deal beyond just their two 1st round picks. There's also Miami at #11 and Arizona at #15. Do you know what all 3 of these teams have in common?  A desire to pick before Elway at #5 and the NYJ at #6. Then again, the Jets also want to get ahead of Elway.  You never know what someone is going to offer up for a QB they like - look what the Eagles and Rams traded to get their QBs in the first 2 spots.

The alternative for Indy is to just draft 1 guy at their #3 spot as opposed to whatever multiple picks offer the competition to jump ahead of Cleveland at #4 and Denver at #5 generated.  Their talent pool that led to only 4 wins sure looks like it could use multiple drafts...

By not overthinking - Cleveland has just red carpeted themselves Barkley at #4 (as depicted in your 1st scenario) if they want him...

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Flugel said:

:D God Bless Ya!  You don't need a break.  You just need to exhale and listen. The flaw in your 2nd scenario assumes Elway and others won't try to trade up and draft the 2nd QB off the board at Indy's 3rd spot before we draft. Dorsey wasn't hired to pick the 3rd QB off the board when we hold the 1st and 4th pick. 

Your Barkley is a talented kid; but he's NOT perfect enough to make anyone in need of a QB bypass the QB at 1 and 2 overall.  The run on QBs is underway and Cleveland has caused it. 

Now, there's a team in Buffalo with 2 first round draft picks (#21 and #22) that your scenarios dismissed entirely or forgot about that may be desperate enough to sweeten the deal beyond just their 1st round picks. There's also Miami at #11 and Arizona at #15. Do you know what all 3 of these teams have in common?  A desire to pick before Elway at #5 and the NYJ at #6. Then again, the Jets also want to get ahead of Elway.  You never know what someone is going to offer up for a QB they like - look what the Eagles and Rams traded to get their QBs? 

The alternative for Indy is to just draft 1 guy at their #3 spot as opposed to whatever multiple picks offer the competition to jump ahead of Cleveland at #4 and Denver at #5 generated.  Their talent pool that led to only 4 wins sure looks like it could use multiple drafts...

By not overthinking - Cleveland has just red carpeted themselves Barkley at #4 if they want him...

 

 

 

What IF- We could trade #4 with a couple of other picks to package a deal to NY Giants for the #2. That way, the Giants could still get a top 4 guy, or they could trade that pick as well to the Jets to jump the Broncos, or even one of the other teams you mentioned for the Bills or Cardinals to come all the way up. This would be an even better trade for NYG because the trade to Cleveland doubles up the compensation. 

 

What would be an example of what Cleveland would have to give up to move up 2 spots from #4 to #2? 

What could the NYGs get in comparison to say- trading their #2 pick to the Jets in relation to, trading #2 to Cleveland and then trading #4 to the Jets? 

Barkley at #1 and the QB OTF #2. 

As much as I'd love to get a solid QB like Cousins in FA, the cost of doing so- 100 million dollars, makes me sick. 

When I look at what the 49er's gave to Jimmy G, 90 million guaranteed over 3 years- I can't help but thinking what happens if he gets injured? They just lost all that capital and they are right back where they were. 

Man, seeing a RB, especially one that is as good of a person as Saquon is, getting drafted #1 Overall- Would be the so unique and inspiring. 

 

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On 2/9/2018 at 9:42 AM, jrb12711 said:

....because I've made my case several times over that I don't have an opinion on Barkley one way or the other. All I've said all along is to make a blanket statement that he's not a top tier prospect is absurd. 

What happened to you man? You used to be a high quality poster but lately it's like you turned into Ghoolie.

Well you said "at least try to make a case for myself." I have, in pretty long detail. 

To be fair, I doubt I've ever been a high quality poster :D

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8 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

What IF- We could trade #4 with a couple of other picks to package a deal to NY Giants for the #2. That way, the Giants could still get a top 4 guy, or they could trade that pick as well to the Jets to jump the Broncos, or even one of the other teams you mentioned for the Bills or Cardinals to come all the way up. This would be an even better trade for NYG because the trade to Cleveland doubles up the compensation. 

 

What would be an example of what Cleveland would have to give up to move up 2 spots from #4 to #2? 

What could the NYGs get in comparison to say- trading their #2 pick to the Jets in relation to, trading #2 to Cleveland and then trading #4 to the Jets? 

Barkley at #1 and the QB OTF #2. 

As much as I'd love to get a solid QB like Cousins in FA, the cost of doing so- 100 million dollars, makes me sick. 

When I look at what the 49er's gave to Jimmy G, 90 million guaranteed over 3 years- I can't help but thinking what happens if he gets injured? They just lost all that capital and they are right back where they were. 

Man, seeing a RB, especially one that is as good of a person as Saquon is, getting drafted #1 Overall- Would be the so unique and inspiring. 

 

I made a couple edits in my post since you cut and pasted it; because I mixed up your scenarios in 1 of my comments.  It's got the band aid on it now.

Poe, I really don't think we need to trade up.  This looks like a draft that could serve us well if we exercise patience and let it come to us.  I'd hate to lose picks trading up if we can still land the 2 guys our FO hoped for all along at #1 and #4.  If someone decided they couldn't pass on Barkley before our 4th pick - then we could be the team getting more early picks from whoever wants to jump in ahead of Elway or the NY Jets to take a QB in that spot. 

In saying all that, I think there's a strong possibility we part with at least 1 of our 2nd round picks if we end up going for McCarron or another vet QB (depending on their FA situations).

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Why the hell PoG would the Browns use their #4 overall pick on a QB when they could just sign the franchise QB of the future in Kevin Hogan to a contract extension?

Or are you admitting that you filled this board with absolute nonsense for months regarding your love affair for Crazy Kev? Just like you are now with Barkley.  

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1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Why the hell PoG would the Browns use their #4 overall pick on a QB when they could just sign the franchise QB of the future in Kevin Hogan to a contract extension?

Or are you admitting that you filled this board with absolute nonsense for months regarding your love affair for Crazy Kev? Just like you are now with Barkley.  

Nobody is handing the starting QB job to anybody. Just because we draft a guy to be the QB of the future, he still has to prove that he is that guy. Until then, somebody is going to have to start until he's ready. Be that Kizer, Hogan, Kessler, McCarron or Kirk Shmucking Cousins. 

I would be okay with Cousins/McCarron, Hogan and Mayfield. Personally. Best QB plays. I would develop packages to get Hogan into the game, as well as Peppers on the offensive side. There is a lot of room to use these guys that could help an offense that really struggled last year.

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54 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Nobody is handing the starting QB job to anybody. Just because we draft a guy to be the QB of the future, he still has to prove that he is that guy. Until then, somebody is going to have to start until he's ready. Be that Kizer, Hogan, Kessler, McCarron or Kirk Shmucking Cousins. 

I would be okay with Cousins/McCarron, Hogan and Mayfield. Personally. Best QB plays. I would develop packages to get Hogan into the game, as well as Peppers on the offensive side. There is a lot of room to use these guys that could help an offense that really struggled last year.

You said, more times than anyone could take seriously, that Kevin Hogan is a franchise QB.

If Kevin Hogan is a franchise QB, you should be starting a 22 page thread telling everyone that the #1 and #4 picks should not be used on a QB, BECAUSE THE FRANCHISE QB IS STILL ON THE ROSTER!

Since you aren't, it's obvious that you wasted everyone's time last season droning on and on and on about Kevin Hogan, and you should not be paid attention to regarding Barkley. 

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7 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

You said, more times than anyone could take seriously, that Kevin Hogan is a franchise QB.

If Kevin Hogan is a franchise QB, you should be starting a 22 page thread telling everyone that the #1 and #4 picks should not be used on a QB, BECAUSE THE FRANCHISE QB IS STILL ON THE ROSTER!

Since you aren't, it's obvious that you wasted everyone's time last season droning on and on and on about Kevin Hogan, and you should not be paid attention to regarding Barkley. 

Don't pay attention to me then, but quit talking and start listening to NFL Scouts when THEY talk about Barkley. Listen to Barkley's coach talk about him, listen to the NFL players that talk about him. Listen to Hall of Fame Players talk about him. 

Because I believe that Hogan is a good QB and could be a franchise Qb if given the chance has nothing to do with Barkley's "Super Human" abilities. 

Faster than DBs, Stronger than Lineman and as elusive as Barry OR Deion Sanders, Barkley is a lethal weapon on offense or special teams. Barkley could probably play S and get away with it. 

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12 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Faster than DBs, Stronger than Lineman and as elusive as Barry OR Deion Sanders, Barkley is a lethal weapon on offense or special teams...

 

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20 hours ago, PoeticG said:

It's so funny that some guys just can't or don't want to "get it".... here read it for yourself, from an article on August 18th, 2015.

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Ezekiel Elliott and the Ohio State offensive line could make most quarterbacks look good.

For all the headlines generated by the Buckeyes' ability to replace a star quarterback with another star quarterback last season, the development of the running game was every bit as important to Ohio State's national championship season.

No matter if J.T. Barrett or Cardale Jones takes snaps for the Buckeyes this season, Elliott could be the focal point of Ohio State's offense. The junior ran for 1,878 yards and 18 touchdowns last year and enters this season on pretty much every list of Heisman Trophy hopefuls.

At the start of last season, Elliott and an offensive line breaking in four new starters struggled to get rolling. In a September home loss to Virginia Tech, Elliott ran eight times for 32 yards. But when Ohio State turned it on down the stretch, Elliott and the offensive line were dominant.

''Zeke was the exact same player all year, but then the people around him just needed to play better in order for him to really show what he was capable of,'' tackle Taylor Decker said.

Elliott had 153 yards and two scores at Michigan State, then had three 200-yard games in the postseason. Against Wisconsin, Alabama and Oregon, Elliott ran for 698 yards and eight touchdowns.

''The key with Zeke is if you can get him to the second level, his skill set at the second level is unbelievable,'' offensive line coach and co-offensive coordinator Ed Warinner said.

The offensive line now returns four starters, including Decker, who considered entering the NFL draft early before deciding to return to Columbus, and guard Pat Elflein. There might not be a better group of blockers in the country.

''I think we're definitely farther along than we were last year at this point, especially from a chemistry standpoint and an experience standpoint,'' Decker said.

 

--------------------

So, is it any wonder why Zeke's stats were so inflated? Imagine what a much more athletic and skilled player like Barkley would have done with Ohio State's Offensive Line. Teams began to key in on Barkley and his offensive line struggled. Penn State used this to their advantage and began to get the ball to Barkley in other ways, one of the reasons that his receptions and yards exponentially increased each season. 

Barkley is the most skilled and athletic player regardless of position coming out this year. He's a freak. Fast, Strong and Elusive are just the tip of the iceberg. He's also incredibly Grounded and Hardworking. Intelligent and Humble. He's a leader on and off the field. He's the total package and completely worthy of the number 1 pick of the draft, regardless of position. He will raise the play of nearly every player on the entire team, offense - defense - special teams... he may even help Hue Jackson at being an NFL coach. 

There are 6 QBs that have first round grades. In my order of best to okay- Mayfield, Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Jackson and Rudolph. And to be honest I haven't even had a chance to look at Rudolph yet so that's why he's at the bottom. But with that many QBs if you can't take Barkley #1 and still get a great QB- you should honestly start looking for a new job. 

The part of ANY OF your constant Barkley stuff that makes absolutely zero sense, is what you said he at the end, "But with that many QB's if you can't take Barkley #1 and still get a great QB, you should honestly start looking for a new job.

The EXACT same can be said about RB. And the absolute fact is its easier to find a RB than a QB. You seem to think that all 4 of the QBs are great, so you still get a great one. If that is the case, great, but the likelihood of that is small. 

So it seems like your QB pick is Mayfield. If the top QB is Mayfield, do you really think the Browns would be the only one to see this? 

Now, I will have to be on your Barkley side for 1 thing. If he were selected 1, it doesn't matter what others in the past have done in that position. He is his own man, and will do his best to become the best player he can be.

But when you start with best ever, and better than anyone in the league, THAT is where you lose everyone and get the comments you do.

And along with draft position, everyone thinks a certain draft position in 1st for a QB is a no no since the Browns made bad picks in the past. Had they take Aaron Rodgers there, it would have been a GREAT pick. The pick isn't cursed, it's the wring talent evaluation that was wrong.

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4 hours ago, PoeticG said:

What IF- We could trade #4 with a couple of other picks to package a deal to NY Giants for the #2. That way, the Giants could still get a top 4 guy, or they could trade that pick as well to the Jets to jump the Broncos, or even one of the other teams you mentioned for the Bills or Cardinals to come all the way up. This would be an even better trade for NYG because the trade to Cleveland doubles up the compensation. 

What would be an example of what Cleveland would have to give up to move up 2 spots from #4 to #2? 

What could the NYGs get in comparison to say- trading their #2 pick to the Jets in relation to, trading #2 to Cleveland and then trading #4 to the Jets? 

Barkley at #1 and the QB OTF #2. 

As much as I'd love to get a solid QB like Cousins in FA, the cost of doing so- 100 million dollars, makes me sick. 

When I look at what the 49er's gave to Jimmy G, 90 million guaranteed over 3 years- I can't help but thinking what happens if he gets injured? They just lost all that capital and they are right back where they were. 

Man, seeing a RB, especially one that is as good of a person as Saquon is, getting drafted #1 Overall- Would be the so unique and inspiring. 

 

Nope to trading up to #2 and here's why. If you go by the draft value chart #2 is worth 2,600. the #4 is worth 1,800 that's 800 we have to make up. That's the #33 (580), a future second- and probably more. We could probably flip picks with the Colts only giving up a second, if you want to play the scenario game. Why give up a pick when a RB who just might be as good as Barkley will be there in the second round? You can bet a QB needy team will offer the Colts a lot more than that.... It cost the Eagles two firsts, and a lot of other picks to move up from #8 to #2 for Wentz. 

If someone wants a qb THAT bad, Dorsey will listen to a trade down out of #1 to get the boatload of picks- but he won't- because by draft day, he's going to have a favorite in mind. 

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3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Why the hell PoG would the Browns use their #4 overall pick on a QB when they could just sign the franchise QB of the future in Kevin Hogan to a contract extension?

Or are you admitting that you filled this board with absolute nonsense for months regarding your love affair for Crazy Kev? Just like you are now with Barkley.  

Tell ya Dutch, I'm just shocked the Browns haven't offered Hogan a $120 million contract extension yet. With all the other teams ringing Dorsey's phone off the hook offering multiple draft picks for Super Kevin.  :lol::lol::lol:

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21 hours ago, Richiswhere said:

Probably the way a crackhead might look at it.

keep going, I'd love to hear your end point. 

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