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THE BROWNS BOARD

2018 QB Class


Westside Steve

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23 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Someone quotes stats and rankings,  quantifiable things indicating performance of those around Rosen ... all you post is a list of upper classman as if all seniors are good like thats somehow able to discredit what was above.

 

You have the tenacity of a true sociopath when you get something in your head.   Even when it's a piss poor argument.

frickin moron. The point was, that a senior class helps him have good stats. Seniors have the advantage of experience and teamwork. They don't have to be all stars.

His offense helps him have good states. You're just wrong, stop worshipping rosenbum. Your stats are not going to change anyones minds, may as well shove it, tiamsies. Your arrogance is superseded only by your belligerence. Other people get to have their own opinion, too. Hey, guess what, numbnuts - you haven't changed your mind and agreed with anybody else either. "der"

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34 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

frickin moron. The point was, that a senior class helps him have good stats. Seniors have the advantage of experience and teamwork. They don't have to be all stars.

His offense helps him have good states. You're just wrong, stop worshipping rosenbum. Your stats are not going to change anyones minds, may as well shove it, tiamsies. Your arrogance is superseded only by your belligerence. Other people get to have their own opinion, too. Hey, guess what, numbnuts - you haven't changed your mind and agreed with anybody else either. "der"

I didn't post stats... and that senior class only helped get UCLA 4 wins.    People that usually don't even agree with me see how incredibly flimsy... actually how outright stupid the point your trying to make is.

You must not have checked them for yourself because half of those seniors (more likely all of them) will never play a down in the NFL.  

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It's a conspiracy and Google's obviously in on it! You can literally search for QB rankings (takes 0.69 seconds and you can see my search), and 2 of the 3 top results talk about Rosen's skills in the description. He's not the flashiest or has the biggest arm, or the most mobile, but he's the best passer in the draft. Yes, they can all make some big time throws, but Rosen and Mayfield are the most consistent.... and between those two, I'd take the 6'4 guy who's played under center against Pac12 defenses vs the 6ft guy who played in the Big 12 out of the shotgun every snap. When Rosen plays, he just looks like an NFL QB to me. 

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9 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

I didn't post stats... and that senior class only helped get UCLA 4 wins.    People that usually don't even agree with me see how incredibly flimsy... actually how outright stupid the point your trying to make is.

You must not have checked them for yourself because half of those seniors (more likely all of them) will never play a down in the NFL.  

I said they weren't stars. it doesn't matter - seniors play better as a unit. experience matters. why not learn to read other's posts, and take them intelligently, rather than be po'd that they disagree with your pompous heinous. (yes, I changed it from "highness")

Stop bitching like a little bitch every time somebody disagrees with you already, fake mr. "know-it-all"

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4 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

When Rosen plays, he just looks like an NFL QB to me. 

yes, he is the best pure pocket passer. Ryan Leaf was a great college qb.

Read his stuff about himself now. What he says about himself, people say about rosenbum.

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6 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

yes, he is the best pure pocket passer. Ryan Leaf was a great college qb.

Read his stuff about himself now. What he says about himself, people say about rosenbum.

Ryan Leaf openly loved cocaine...      I feel like just because the kid as a touch of Rodgers-esque arrogance you're immediately like "CHRIST HE"S LEAF!!!"

Also, because you've agree with this point before and were never able to refute it - ANYONE on record has nothing bad to say about Rosen.     However all these random 'anonymous' people seem to generate a theme like it's a copied memo pass around the office.

Has one person put their name to that yet?  Even the Dilfer link you posted contradicts the narrative you're pushing.   It's like the poli board, except football....

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20 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Watson had all the intangibles,  mayfield doesn't. Watson is bigger,  faster,  more athletic,  and his character is top notch.  Mayfield is short,  has character issues on and off the field,  and played in an all offense conference where almost nobody has success in the NFL. 

I like Mayfield too,  I love his fire, the walk on winning a Heisman,  the competitiveness,  the completion % and all that,  but not a good comparison to Watson.  

We'll see how it plays out once our FO interviews their top 3

Yeah, he's not a great comparison in those aspects, but the comparison I was trying to make was that Watson got picked apart even though he was generally the best player on the field, and Mayfield appears to be getting the same treatment, even though HE was generally the best QB in the world. But you're right, they are very different prospects. 

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40 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Yeah, he's not a great comparison in those aspects, but the comparison I was trying to make was that Watson got picked apart even though he was generally the best player on the field, and Mayfield appears to be getting the same treatment, even though HE was generally the best QB in the world. But you're right, they are very different prospects. 

YAHTZEE!  Watson got absolutely shredded in here last year.  After a really good combine - someone pulled out his RPMs and throwing velocity leading many to conclude it to be the tell-all sign he'd suck.  Watson also got written off to being on a GREAT team even though a guy like Alabama's Jonathan Allen said he's easily the best player they faced.  Of course, that conclusion could only be drawn 1 week after Watson led Clemson to a 42-0 victory over Ohio State.  

In Houston, Tom Savage might have had the best RPMs and throwing velocity on their depth chart.  That said, the only time they were the highest scoring offense in the AFC was the duration Watson started.  That was also the period they won their highest concentration of games.

Do you know what overcomes a not so wonderful RPM and throwing velocity?   Throwing the ball on time via good pre-snap intellect/reads, vision, pocket presence and accuracy.  Do you know what renders excellent RPMs and throwing velocity useless?  Not having good pre-snap intellect, vision, and pocket presence which leads to not getting the ball to the targets on time.   More routes get jumped for that in the NFL than arm strength.  Brandon Weeden showed us this as many times as we needed to see it. 

 

 

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I'm looking forward to seeing Rosen throw at the combines.  There's no hurry in coming to a final opinion on the guy.

I'm being honest when I say I've seen a guy that was hyped up as the #1 QB coming out of high school.  I've seen the ideal mechanics I've read about; but I've also seen him miss/overthrow some wide open targets that the great ones in the NFL complete routinely. I pointed this out in the first half of the video SD-Tom shared.  2 different guys broke open with no defenders between them and the end zone and he missed them both.  When I'm hearing best QB in the country - that's where I expect to see that.

I've had season tickets to Vandy games.  I remembered Jay Cutler becoming the SEC Player of the Year and all people asked was - what if he just had a defense?   Well, in the NFL - it was pretty much the same story as early as Denver.  A lot of big stats with no victories.  He'll get you all those 340 yards and over passing days way easier than he'll get you victories on those days.  What's missing?  Teammates AGAIN?  Really?

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1 hour ago, Flugel said:

YAHTZEE!  Watson got absolutely shredded in here last year.  After a really good combine - someone pulled out his RPMs and throwing velocity leading many to conclude it to be the tell-all sign he'd suck.  Watson also got written off to being on a GREAT team even though a guy like Alabama's Jonathan Allen said he's easily the best player they faced.  Of course, that conclusion could only be drawn 1 week after Watson led Clemson to a 42-0 victory over Ohio State.  

In Houston, Tom Savage might have had the best RPMs and throwing velocity on their depth chart.  That said, the only time they were the highest scoring offense in the AFC was the duration Watson started.  That was also the period they won their highest concentration of games.

Do you know what overcomes a not so wonderful RPM and throwing velocity?   Throwing the ball on time via good pre-snap intellect/reads, vision, pocket presence and accuracy.  Do you know what renders excellent RPMs and throwing velocity useless?  Not having good pre-snap intellect, vision, and pocket presence which leads to not getting the ball to the targets on time.   More routes get jumped for that in the NFL than arm strength.  Brandon Weeden showed us this as many times as we needed to see it. 

Yep, couldn't agree more.  I'm listening to the 2/23/18 Browns Daily show, and they have a guy named Dan Shonka as their guest who I absolutely love.  He spends hours of breaking down QB's, and his "firm" has Baker Mayfield WAY above anybody else.  You know what he said about arm strength?  "You might as well throw that out of the window because that is the LEAST important aspect of a QB."  He doesn't like Josh Allen (neither do I), and he doesn't really like Sam Darnold either (neither do I.  He's so raw to me).  With Darnold, Shonka says he doesn't understand why everyone seems to be giving him a pass on the turnovers.  Basically, if you can't protect the ball in college, why is that going to change in the pros?  He forced it into triple coverage, he held the ball low and fumbled it WAY too much, and after his team is down in the 4th quarter BECAUSE of his turnovers, Sam Darnold somehow gets credit for bringing his team back.  Darnold has poor mechanics, and he's only been playing QB for a couple of years.  I believe he was a linebacker until his senior year of high school, but I didn't verify that info.  

Shonka goes onto say that Mayfield has the best accuracy, his teammates absolutely love him, and while he's uber competitive, he sees nothing wrong with his character.  Mayfield isn't just accurate, he puts the ball where his receivers can catch and RUN WITH IT.  According to him, Baker has "all the arm strength you need", and he reminds him so much of Drew Brees that "it isn't even funny".  

It might just be the end of February, but right now...it's Baker Mayfield, and it's not even close.  Shonka also likes Rosen, but says the concussion history scares the crap out of him, which I know many fans on this board have also relayed.  If you haven't listened to the interview, it's on the 2/23/18 Browns Daily show, and it starts on the second hour of the show.  Great info.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Yeah, he's not a great comparison in those aspects, but the comparison I was trying to make was that Watson got picked apart even though he was generally the best player on the field, and Mayfield appears to be getting the same treatment, even though HE was generally the best QB in the world. But you're right, they are very different prospects. 

Watson was actually my favorite qb of the draft last year.  People complained about his ints and his weak arm.  

We'll see if mayfield can adapt to the NFL as well.  

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On 2/26/2018 at 7:08 AM, LogicIsForSquares said:

Big 12 QB (name one that has come out of those wide open Big12 offenses who has amounted to anything) throwing to wide open receivers who also happens to be short.

Mayfield also is capable of putting the ball where only his receivers can catch it when they're covered. As to being "wide open", did you enjoy seeing Kizer throw it ten feet over his wrs heads or in the dirt in similar situations?

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38 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Mayfield also is capable of putting the ball where only his receivers can catch it when they're covered. As to being "wide open", did you enjoy seeing Kizer throw it ten feet over his wrs heads or in the dirt in similar situations?

Well, Kizer is terrible so he shouldn’t be in the discussion at all at this point.

I did not see a QB throwing his guys open. Until one of these Big 12 QBs shows to be worth a sh-it in the pros, I don’t want the Browns to be the team using top 4 picks on lottery tickets.

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https://sports.yahoo.com/report-sam-darnold-won-t-154931188.html

 

Report: Sam Darnold won’t throw in Indy

The top quarterback prospects in this year’s draft class will be looking for ways to differentiate themselves from one another over the next couple of months and Sam Darnold has reportedly found a way to do it in Indianapolis this week.

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that Darnold will not take part in throwing drills during the Scouting Combine. He is expected to throw at USC’s Pro Day workout on March 21 instead.

Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield and Mason Rudolph are all expected to do the throwing drills in Indy. Lamar Jackson has not announced what he plans to do at this point.

There have been plenty of quarterbacks in the past who have passed on throwing at the combine in favor of working in familiar conditions and with familiar receivers at their schools. That trend has reversed in recent years, but it seems Darnold will not be part of that wave.

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28 minutes ago, D Bone said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-sam-darnold-won-t-154931188.html

 

Report: Sam Darnold won’t throw in Indy

The top quarterback prospects in this year’s draft class will be looking for ways to differentiate themselves from one another over the next couple of months and Sam Darnold has reportedly found a way to do it in Indianapolis this week.

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that Darnold will not take part in throwing drills during the Scouting Combine. He is expected to throw at USC’s Pro Day workout on March 21 instead.

Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield and Mason Rudolph are all expected to do the throwing drills in Indy. Lamar Jackson has not announced what he plans to do at this point.

There have been plenty of quarterbacks in the past who have passed on throwing at the combine in favor of working in familiar conditions and with familiar receivers at their schools. That trend has reversed in recent years, but it seems Darnold will not be part of that wave.

The combine and pro days are kind of a joke for QBs. If the game footage hasn't shown enough, seeing them throw to uncovered WRs while wearing shorts and a tshirt shouldn't tip the scale one way or the other.

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46 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

The combine and pro days are kind of a joke for QBs. If the game footage hasn't shown enough, seeing them throw to uncovered WRs while wearing shorts and a tshirt shouldn't tip the scale one way or the other.

Certainly hurt Bridgewater 

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5 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

That is the thing. It can only hurt but really the game footage should be the most important component. No one should be helped by the undies olympics. 

I think they're also assessing how fast they pick things up,  and how they handle the pressure. Also get a better idea how the ball looks coming out of their hands 

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3 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

I think they're also assessing how fast they pick things up,  and how they handle the pressure. Also get a better idea how the ball looks coming out of their hands 

The interview and board work I get. But as far as throwing it, everyone should have a good idea of what they are looking at well before the combine or pro days. I would never pick a guy on what he did the day he threw against Casper the Friendly Ghost if the game footage told a totally different story.

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46 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I knew this was coming. 

He gives well thought out answers to questions,  and when snippets are taken out of context,  it completely changes his message. 

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3 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

I knew this was coming. 

He gives well thought out answers to questions,  and when snippets are taken out of context,  it completely changes his message. 

What he said was he'd rather go later in the draft to a good organization than higher in the draft to a bad one.

He's absolutely right. 

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12 hours ago, Flugel said:

I'm looking forward to seeing Rosen throw at the combines.  There's no hurry in coming to a final opinion on the guy.

I'm being honest when I say I've seen a guy that was hyped up as the #1 QB coming out of high school.  I've seen the ideal mechanics I've read about; but I've also seen him miss/overthrow some wide open targets that the great ones in the NFL complete routinely. I pointed this out in the first half of the video SD-Tom shared.  2 different guys broke open with no defenders between them and the end zone and he missed them both.  When I'm hearing best QB in the country - that's where I expect to see that.

I've had season tickets to Vandy games.  I remembered Jay Cutler becoming the SEC Player of the Year and all people asked was - what if he just had a defense?   Well, in the NFL - it was pretty much the same story as early as Denver.  A lot of big stats with no victories.  He'll get you all those 340 yards and over passing days way easier than he'll get you victories on those days.  What's missing?  Teammates AGAIN?  Really?

Is Rosen throwing? I know Darnold isn't. 

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3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

What he said was he'd rather go later in the draft to a good organization than higher in the draft to a bad one.

He's absolutely right. 

From the article I posted somewhere on here :

But like all of Rosen’s answers, it came as part of a nuanced response to a question about where he’d prefer to go.

In it, the quarterback said he knows he has a unique personality and that it might not be the right fit for every team. If that means he goes later, then so be it, but he’s more concerned with going to the right place than the earliest place possible. Rosen also said that NFL teams would have a better idea than he would if his disposition works well for their organization.

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There's a recent little article basically stating not to completely count out Deshone Kizer, and I do believe he's worth mentioning. Right now, we're all excited to know which veteran QB will be with us, and especially which rookie we're going to draft. But Deshone Kizer isn't going anywhere, and the article linked below goes into a few reasons why people shouldn't forget him. Kizer was mostly frustrating as hell to watch, and by all accounts, had a terrible season, but if we're being honest with ourselves, we know that he definitely played well enough to win a few games. Remember the Green Bay game where it was 3rd and 4 and he hit Njoku with a perfect pass that would've given us the 1st down and let us tick down the clock to around 30 seconds up 7? Njoku appeared to make the catch, but after review, the ball hit the ground. We didn't punt out of bounds, they ran all almost completely back, and titty-boom. We lose. How about that gutty Steelers game at the end? Thanks Corey Coleman. Remember Kenny Britt completely screwing Kizer over with drops and some lead to picks? Oh, and just LOOK at the bozos Kizer had to throw to, especially after Corey got hurt. 

Never count out a man who believes in himself and is willing to work his butt off. I'm not a huge Kizer fan because I value accuracy, but even I know he was in an awful situation. I'd love a QB room consisting of Kizer, Baker Mayfield, and Case Keenum (or McCarron, or Sam Bradford). 

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/24982/its-not-wise-to-dismiss-deshone-kizers-chance-to-start-in-2018

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Keenum showed me something  that O'Brien never got out of him in Houston. What a difference a coach can make that plays to a player's strengths. Too bad we don't have a HC like that.

BTW rumors are out there that Keenum may be headed for Arizona.

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