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So if we hire Kirk Cousins does DeShone Kizer become the backup and we spend number 1 and number 4 on other positions?

Does picking a quarterback at number one send a message to Cousins that he's not the main guy?

Replace the name Kirk Cousins with the name AJ McCarron and those two questions change?

WSS

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7 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

So if we hire Kirk Cousins does DeShone Kizer become the backup and we spend number 1 and number 4 on other positions?

Does picking a quarterback at number one send a message to Cousins that he's not the main guy?

Replace the name Kirk Cousins with the name AJ McCarron and those two questions change?

WSS

If we sign Cousins then I think you are correct.  Kizer is the backup and 1 and 4 go to other positions or  even trade down out of #1 to someone who wants a QB.   I think the money he will cost makes you need to pick other players to help the team and not a QB that early.   Maybe take someone in round 3 or so and see if he develops.

AJ McCarron.....I still think a QB is drafted and you have McCarron, #1 draft pick, and Kizer and let them fight it out....let  the best man win.

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16 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

So if we hire Kirk Cousins does DeShone Kizer become the backup and we spend number 1 and number 4 on other positions?

YES

Does picking a quarterback at number one send a message to Cousins that he's not the main guy?

Just doesn't make sense if we are going to spend $150M on a 29 year old to spend #1 on a QB when we have needs all over the field

Replace the name Kirk Cousins with the name AJ McCarron and those two questions change?

YES

WSS

 

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1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

So if we hire Kirk Cousins does DeShone Kizer become the backup and we spend number 1 and number 4 on other positions?

Does picking a quarterback at number one send a message to Cousins that he's not the main guy?

Replace the name Kirk Cousins with the name AJ McCarron and those two questions change?

WSS

Since the FA period is before the draft.....Cousins will likely be signed long before we pick any QB, so there would be no message to send.  

IMO Cousins will ONLY go to a team where he can be the "main guy".   And to a team that he would forecast is a QB away from success.  He...or his agent...or any pundit...would not see the Browns as that sort of team.  Denver, Buffalo would be more likely candidates....

though....a guy on ESPN this morning said "book it, Cousins will sign with the Jets". 

And I DO think there is a big difference between Cousins and McCarron.   Cousins has been an NFL starting QB for 4 years....McCarron for like 4 games.   He does not have the same gravitas......ergo cannot make the same demands...either salary wise or  "guarantee to play" wise.

So...yes, things definitely change.  IF (and it is highly doubtful)  the Browns were to sign Cousins....that IS a signal that they would go elsewhere with both of their first round picks.   But IF they sign McCarron....no such signal would be raised.  They would still be expected to go QB at #1.

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4 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

So if we hire Kirk Cousins does DeShone Kizer become the backup and we spend number 1 and number 4 on other positions?

Does picking a quarterback at number one send a message to Cousins that he's not the main guy?

Replace the name Kirk Cousins with the name AJ McCarron and those two questions change?

WSS

Yes. If we're bringing in a FA QB, I'd far prefer McCarron. The financial risk is way less. I've said a bunch of times my Redskins contacts say Cousins is overrated, and is going to get massively overpaid.

We'll see how free agency shakes out, but as of today put AJ #1 on the Browns list with a bullet. At least Sashi did one thing right , McCarron only costs us $$$$ now, not draft picks.

EDIT:  For kicks and giggles, I dug up AJ's draft profile & college stats. He was decent at Alabama- a consistent 60%+ passer. Good size at 6'3". Rated as a second round prospect- the Bengals got a steal in the fifth. Him being a FA now goes to reinforce if you have any doubts- Mike Brown is the biggest tightwad in the NFL. They're still the only cold weather team that doesn't have a dedicated indoor practice facility. 

 https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/aj-mccarron-1.html

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/aj-mccarron?id=2543497

Might have beaten the Steelers in that playoff game if not for Bonehead Burfect.  

PS I posted it in another thread, but it bears repeating here...    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-aj-mccarron-landing-spots-browns-get-a-second-chance-at-quarterback/

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After seeing Haslam and Hue with McCarron after the Bengals game, my money's on them going with McCarron as the "veteran QB presence".  QB room will be McCarron, Darnold and Kizer.  I think Mayfield will be the best QB out of this draft but the Browns will be too scared of the Johnny comparisons to pull the trigger.  The only way I see the Browns drafting Mayfield is if they trade away their #1 pick and draft Mayfield after Darnold and Rosen get picked at #1 and #2.

The next question is, who's the starter?  I liked Kizer last draft season and thought the Browns drafted him appropriately in the second round, since he was seen as a project QB and not an immediate starter. I honestly thought Hue Jackson's "just trust me" Kessler would be the starter last season but the Browns decided against that.  The whole "project QB" thing went out the window with Hue putting him in and forcing him to abandon the run in the second half of games, a recipe for disaster for any rookie QB.  I'm very curious to see if Kizer shows any improvement this coming season after having an entire off season to  get it through his head that he doesn't always have to be the hero, just play it safe.  He's already proved to be a hard worker and has nowhere to go but up.  Kizer has also shown he's tough enough to play in the AFC north, he's taken quite a beating but managed to stay in games.  Not all the losses were on him, either.  He did well enough to keep games close even with the costly turnovers, and defense not being able to get stops/special teams doing special things ruined some of Kizer's best games.  I'd rather see Kizer start over McCarron, I think Kizer has the higher ceiling and has the greater chance to become a franchise QB, not ready to give up on him just yet.   Who knows?  Working with Haley might just give Kizer the environment he needs to succeed.

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Bold prediction sure to go wrong...The browns will sign McCarron, trade back from #1 to #5 with DEN and then trade back up to #3 with Indy for...Josh Allen. It pains me to think this way, but something tells me he is their target. With either veteran qb, he can sit and wait for a few years before he needs to be ready. It would be a battle for the back-up slot, as I feel Kizer is going to improve from last year. 

If they sign cousins, the for sale sign goes up on #1, no doubt about it.  

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16 minutes ago, Bigalow80 said:

Bold prediction sure to go wrong...The browns will sign McCarron, trade back from #1 to #5 with DEN and then trade back up to #3 with Indy for...Josh Allen. It pains me to think this way, but something tells me he is their target. With either veteran qb, he can sit and wait for a few years before he needs to be ready. It would be a battle for the back-up slot, as I feel Kizer is going to improve from last year. 

If they sign cousins, the for sale sign goes up on #1, no doubt about it.  

no, no, no. They sign McCarron, they pick Minkah Fitzpatrick, they trade down from 4 to Denver, pick up another second round pick,

and then pick the OG out of ND. Two all pros for the next then years.

Then they draft Mike White with their first pick in the second round.

I have no freaking real idea. lol. But I honestly believe they finally will make it a brilliant Browns draft.

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4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

no, no, no. They sign McCarron, they pick Minkah Fitzpatrick, they trade down from 4 to Denver, pick up another second round pick,

and then pick the OG out of ND. Two all pros for the next then years.

Then they draft Mike White with their first pick in the second round.

I have no freaking real idea. lol. But I honestly believe they finally will make it a brilliant Browns draft.

We're all hoping for a great draft.  You have to be able to sell that vision to the next draft picks. All  that cap space and all the young talent.  At some point,  If they get the qb right,  it'll turn around. 

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12 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

no, no, no. They sign McCarron, they pick Minkah Fitzpatrick, they trade down from 4 to Denver, pick up another second round pick,

and then pick the OG out of ND. Two all pros for the next then years.

Then they draft Mike White with their first pick in the second round.

I have no freaking real idea. lol. But I honestly believe they finally will make it a brilliant Browns draft.

Let's hope the BROWNS can land an experienced, quarterback  yes even McCarron has been around a little, so they can concentrate on a true rebuilding process with stud need players in a loaded draft. The true FA QB prizes may however slip away.

But signing a rookie quarterback seems to have BROWNS fans divided like the Hatfields and McCoys.......I'm waiting for the feud to go crazy before draft day. Not even close on which one if any to pick in R1.

Now Hatfield  get off my lawn dammit or I'll shoot . :lol:

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On 2/16/2018 at 11:15 AM, Westside Steve said:

So if we hire Kirk Cousins does DeShone Kizer become the backup and we spend number 1 and number 4 on other positions?

Does picking a quarterback at number one send a message to Cousins that he's not the main guy?

Replace the name Kirk Cousins with the name AJ McCarron and those two questions change?

WSS

It's a terrific question and I'll give you my best answer. Signing Cousins essentially makes all our problems go away. We absolutely don't draft a QB #1, and it's likely we trade down for a killing. If we don't trade down at 1, we'd trade down at 4. Basically we can do whatever we want and it's GM's dream. You have the QB, you have the 1st and 4th pick (not to mention 3 second rounders), and you STILL have money to burn. Without going crazy, we could go from 0 wins to maybe 7 overnight. 

Drafting McCarron is where it starts to get a little messy. McCarron has shown ability, but certainly not anywhere near enough to instill the confidence it takes to pass on drafting a QB at 1 or 4. Think of the BACKLASH we'd face if McCarron sucks and the QB entries turn out to be starters? Everyone would be fired and the fans would be institutionalized. 

It's likely Hue Jackson feels he knows what McCarron can and can't do. After all, he worked with him for a year or two and saw him extensively in practice. The fans and analysts are somewhat less informed, and we're divided on McCarron because we simply haven't seen much of him. Me personally? I don't see McCarron as anything special. Would he be better than Kizer was last year? Of course, but then again, who wouldn't be? I never thought McCarron had a great arm, good enough mobility, or anything else special enough to warrant total trust of leading a franchise. He just seems so...normal. And not in a good way. He has that "I'm a backup" flavor to him, regardless of how hot his wife is. 

Edit:  After watching the very limited footage of McCarron, I've concluded that his arm is at least good enough. It doesn't pop off the television or anything, but it's certainly adequate. He appears comfortable attacking both the middle and the sideline, and he definitely likes to throw it long. He is NOT a dink and dunk type guy. In fact, I'd actually call him a gunslinger. If McCarron were to ever work out, we'd need Josh Gordon on the field, and we ALL KNOW how that game works. Go back and watch some of McCarron's best throws....nobody on our team makes those receptions unless they're named Josh Gordon. (they had AJ Green, a close comparison to Josh) 

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Ha, If Po can post 100 Saquon videos, I can do at least one on McCarron. Observations? Does not have a Josh Allen arm. This video was from 2015, maybe he's been working on that. Seems a lot of his throws were high- what usually happens when you try to put extra mustard on a throw. Doesn't have Mayfield's pinpoint accuracy either. Um two years $15 million guaranteed sounds about right. We bring in AJ, we still will need to draft a qb high.   PS- looking at his contract he's basically been playing at vet minimum for the Bengals typical of Mike Brown. 

 

 

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Just curious, could the Browns shock the world and offer #1 & #4 to Green Bay for Rodgers? Then sign him to the biggest contract in NFL history. Would the Packers give it a thought? Before you immediately say no, Green Bay could have the chance to draft whatever qb they want in what's considered a very good qb draft plus the #4 pick and they would free up all his money from the books. Not to mention, they are going to have to pay him in a year or two anyway and his price tag is only going up based on the Cousins signing. Finally, he is 34 years old so let's be generous and say 4-6 years of really good football left for $30 mil/yr moving forward. Would/should the browns even consider something like that?

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How about this combination? Drew Brees will be a free agent possibly. Have him mentor 6 foot Baker Mayfield! What do you think?

WSS

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So you essentially tell Brees, we will make you the highest paid qb for the next 3 years but we will be moving on from you after that? I'm not sure he buys into it, but it's not a terrible thought. I think he has too much invested in NO to walk away personally. and vice versa. They will make something happen.

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17 minutes ago, Bigalow80 said:

Just curious, could the Browns shock the world and offer #1 & #4 to Green Bay for Rodgers? Then sign him to the biggest contract in NFL history. Would the Packers give it a thought? Before you immediately say no, Green Bay could have the chance to draft whatever qb they want in what's considered a very good qb draft plus the #4 pick and they would free up all his money from the books. Not to mention, they are going to have to pay him in a year or two anyway and his price tag is only going up based on the Cousins signing. Finally, he is 34 years old so let's be generous and say 4-6 years of really good football left for $30 mil/yr moving forward. Would/should the browns even consider something like that?

No- give up your future for a year or two of Rodgers? 

7 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

How about this combination? Drew Brees will be a free agent possibly. Have him mentor 6 foot Baker Mayfield! What do you think?

WSS

Nope Steve. Brees is as much a fixture in The Big Easy as Joe Thomas is in Cleveland. 

While we're at it doing doing crazy talk, how about offering our #1 overall to the Patriots for Brady? 

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3 minutes ago, Bigalow80 said:

So you essentially tell Brees, we will make you the highest paid qb for the next 3 years but we will be moving on from you after that? I'm not sure he buys into it, but it's not a terrible thought. I think he has too much invested in NO to walk away personally. and vice versa. They will make something happen.

FWIW, Drew is already 39. He'll be on a year to year contract with the Saints. 

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hoorta, I don't disagree with you.  However, would 4-5 years of Rodgers be worth it? Remember, part of this scenario is the Browns are locking up Rodgers for the rest of his career. that's essentially the question at hand. 

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4 minutes ago, hoorta said:

No- give up your future for a year or two of Rodgers? 

Nope Steve. Brees is as much a fixture in The Big Easy as Joe Thomas is in Cleveland. 

While we're at it doing doing crazy talk, how about offering our #1 overall to the Patriots for Brady? 

Oh I never for a second thought it was going to happen. Just that would be a nice scenario. Two 6 foot tall guys.

WSS

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5 minutes ago, Bigalow80 said:

hoorta, I don't disagree with you.  However, would 4-5 years of Rodgers be worth it? Remember, part of this scenario is the Browns are locking up Rodgers for the rest of his career. that's essentially the question at hand. 

Still no. Would the Packers take a deal like that? Probably, the #1 and #4 would get us any starting QB that's on the high side of 30 (just the #4 would have landed us Alex Smith). Who's Aaron throwing to? Gordon and? It's short term Fool's Gold. If you want my honest opinion, it's a far worse idea than signing Kirk Cousins in free agency. At least we're not giving up picks to build the roster, and Kirk is 4 year younger. 

The din from the "win now" crowd in the Bleacher section is getting mighty loud.....   

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once again, I would never make that deal. As good as Rodgers is, Father Time is undefeated. I think Rosen or Darnold are elite qb talents and you take your chance with them.

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14 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Doesn't have Mayfield's pinpoint accuracy either. 

:lol::lol:

Yeah I know 70% completion rate sucks. 

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12 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yeah I know 70% completion rate sucks. 

 

I think you're confusing completion % with accuracy.   

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3 hours ago, Bigalow80 said:

once again, I would never make that deal. As good as Rodgers is, Father Time is undefeated. I think Rosen or Darnold are elite qb talents and you take your chance with them.

I haven't seen anyone call them elite, good probably, maybe but we'll see what more the combines show.

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56 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

eh. I think Miami will trade down, and draft Mike White.

Rosen isn't chosen until the second round, by the niners - who will have him back up Garoppolo, because rosen fits in

with the weirdo homeless people down on the strip.giphy.gif

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I still think Allen has the highest upside - but it won't be his first year that he's ready to roll. It's just that kind of qb year.

 

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1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

If our receivers can't get the handle on catching a 50 mph dart from Kizer? Hell, they may not even see the 60 mph dart of Allen coming till it gets past them :ph34r:

41 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

 

giphy.gif

 

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