2018 QB Class

[tiamat63]

46 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

This is assuming you land Cousins, draft Barkley and develop Allen.

The Browns are instantly relevant in the AFCN. 

Even slightly above average QB play makes this team relevant.    But the instantly part will have nothing to do with Allen... and most likely Barkley as well.

I don't understand the obsession with this kid other than his size.    Just watching him side by side with other QB's and his senior bowl stuff is pretty telling.  

[calfoxwc]

well, as I've said before - everything that can be said, HAS been said about all this qb draft stuff. The Browns need to start winning now, so it seems that Mayfield has the magic in him to start far faster than the others. It could be Mayfield, and whoever else the second pick would be - I keep thinking it's Minkah - but FA.... suppose they sign Tremaine Johnson, fa, cb? That would shake up the draft a bit.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

well, as I've said before - everything that can be said, HAS been said about all this qb draft stuff. The Browns need to start winning now, so it seems that Mayfield has the magic in him to start far faster than the others. It could be Mayfield, and whoever else the second pick would be - I keep thinking it's Minkah - but FA.... suppose they sign Tremaine Johnson, fa, cb? That would shake up the draft a bit.

 

No, what the Browns need to do is build a solid and young foundation for sustained success.

Quite literally the "win now, excite the fanbase, sell tickets RAH RAH RAH" is EXACTLY why we ended up with Johnny HateCrime.   

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Why cant Allen be the exception?

He is not Kizer. Allen was forced to run in what people call a pro style offense at Wyoming. NFL offenses dont want the QB to expose themselves to hits like a RB. A RBs lifespan is short in the NFL  Vick, RG3 and others tried bucking the trend and you saw the result. Allen is by no means a finished product and needs work. You dont want a guy who goes from starting in college to staring in the pros day 1 anyway. Thats a trainwreck waiting to happen.

Agreed. Allen could be the exception, just like Mayfield could (and I think will) be the exception for 6' qbs.  But my POV is our #1 and #4 picks are Mercedes\BMW picks. Would you go to a BMW dealer and plunk down $70,000 on a car that "needs work"?   If we were picking in the 12-20 range, I'd have a different opinion. 

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

That's not really the type of decision process you want to risk a struggling franchise on. 

What really worries me is our "Quarterback Whisperer" Hue is going to tell Dorsey- "I can fix him". Just like RG III, LOL.   

3 hours ago, boo fagley said:

This is assuming you land Cousins, draft Barkley and develop Allen.

The Browns are instantly relevant in the AFCN. 

I'll steal what Tia just posted   "Quite literally the "win now, excite the fanbase, sell tickets RAH RAH RAH" I want long term success, not a flash in the pan. 

Saw a report giving the Browns around a 10% chance of landing Cousins. It will depend if he values $$$$ over winning. Regarding "developing" Allen- hell of a risk. He may have an Elway ceiling- he also has a Christian Ponder floor if the accuracy issues can't be fixed. 56% doesn't cut it in the NFL anymore.   

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 

No, what the Browns need to do is build a solid and young foundation for sustained success.

Quite literally the "win now, excite the fanbase, sell tickets RAH RAH RAH" is EXACTLY why we ended up with Johnny HateCrime.   

you can do both, they are not mutually exclusive unless you don't have much talent. The Browns have some serious talent, they just have four positions that must get fixed to be able to win. If you look at the scores of games, it isn't like they get beaten 55-3, 48-6 every week. They are a lot closer than that - and a great draft could fix what needs fixed. Which is, FS, QB, CB, WR

[mjp28]

5 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

you can do both, they are not mutually exclusive unless you don't have much talent. The Browns have some serious talent, they just have four positions that must get fixed to be able to win. If you look at the scores of games, it isn't like they get beaten 55-3, 48-6 every week. They are a lot closer than that - and a great draft could fix what needs fixed. Which is, FS, QB, CB, WR

That's pretty fair in those four.

RB, K maybe OL might bite them real soon, hopefully they do well with their 12 picks.

[tiamat63]

My post is based on not acquiring Cousins (which I don't believe will happen)  

In which case Mayfield wouldn't be a good idea and Allen would be worse. 

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

well, as I've said before - everything that can be said, HAS been said about all this qb draft stuff.

OK, so, then....why don't you cease and desist saying anything else until the draft takes place?  Please do so.

 

The Browns need to start winning now, so it seems that Mayfield has the magic in him to start far faster than the others. It could be Mayfield, and whoever else the second pick would be - I keep thinking it's Minkah - but FA.... suppose they sign Tremaine Johnson, fa, cb? That would shake up the draft a bit.

So...lets put a moratorium on the draft talk until after the FA signing period is about done.   Let's say...April 1st?

I will if everyone else here does. Ya think that will happen?

 

[hoorta]

10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

So...lets put a moratorium on the draft talk until after the FA signing period is about done.   Let's say...April 1st?

I will if everyone else here does. Ya think that will happen?

Not a chance Gip.  First thing of semi- importance happens in 2 days when McCarron finds out if he's a UFA or RFA. UFA? Depends on how high the market goes. RFA? already said nyet to giving the Bengals our #33. Alex Smith he ain't.  

[calfoxwc]

giving THEM our 33 ??? egad, that's "NO".

[The Gipper]

17 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Not a chance Gip.  First thing of semi- importance happens in 2 days when McCarron finds out if he's a UFA or RFA. UFA? Depends on how high the market goes. RFA? already said nyet to giving the Bengals our #33. Alex Smith he ain't.  

I was wondering when that was going to happen.  

I guess we will know by then.

But....does it seem that Hue has dog slobbered over McCarron the way that PoG has dog slobbered over Barkley...and Cal has dog slobbered over Allen?

Except, of course, Hue's slobbering is much more lethal than   Cal's or PoGs.   Hue could so some actual harm.

 

[gumby73]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

  But my POV is our #1 and #4 picks are Mercedes\BMW picks. Would you go to a BMW dealer and plunk down $70,000 on a car that "needs work"?      

nope..but some of us Old Browns Fans should be riding out of here with a Mustang &.. the Model     

      

[Canton Mike]

SOME of us ol' Browns' Fans are.......

Hell, all I lack are the looks, talent, money, girls, & cars......But I can match 'em in ENERGY!!!

Mike

[Mark O]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

 

What really worries me is our "Quarterback Whisperer" Hue is going to tell Dorsey- "I can fix him". Just like RG III, LOL.   

 

RG III was a low risk/high reward signing that didn't pan out when viewed as just the potential alone of rookie year RGIII being possible again.  If the signing of him prevented getting a Wentz or Goff or whoever, then yeah..it was a big mistake even considering how low risk a signing he was at the time.

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, Mark O said:

RG III was a low risk/high reward signing that didn't pan out when viewed as just the potential alone of rookie year RGIII being possible again.  If the signing of him prevented getting a Wentz or Goff or whoever, then yeah..it was a big mistake even considering how low risk a signing he was at the time.

It wasn't the signing of RGIII that bothered me, it was how Hue forced him into the starter position without anything that resembled a competition in training camp. What Hue saw in him to make him so adamant about him starting over McCown was a real head-scratcher. 

[Canton Mike]

3 minutes ago, Mark O said:

RG III was a low risk/high reward signing that didn't pan out when viewed as just the potential alone of rookie year RGIII being possible again. If t he signing of him prevented getting a Wentz or Goff or whoever, then yeah..it was a big mistake even considering how low risk a signing he was at the time.

Mark, your statement just reinforces my feelings that, no matter WHO we may sign, we MUST draft a QB HIGH...#1 high! We cannot afford to let a QB class like this one escape us. Who knows when we'll be in this position again?

Mike

[Orion]

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Quite literally the "win now, excite the fanbase, sell tickets RAH RAH RAH" is EXACTLY why we ended up with Johnny HateCrime.

I swear that was Haslam wanting the most flamboyant QB...to put HIS team in the spotlight.  To get HIS team talked about.  To sell tickets and beer and jerseys. 

...how's that trial going?  Any chance the'll lock him away?

At #1 they have to pick their favorite QB.  (it's ok that he's not an impact player year one.  they still have the fourth highest pick in the draft to get one)

THEN....there are a couple of 'must do' things.  They've GOTTA get someone so that Peppers can play up closer to the LOS than to the parking lot.  And they've GOTTA get a WR that doesn't drop the ball at the 11 yard line, on 4th down, with the game on the line.  AND, because it's a good draft for RB's, they've gotta come out of the draft with one of 'em.

 

[Mark O]

38 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

It wasn't the signing of RGIII that bothered me, it was how Hue forced him into the starter position without anything that resembled a competition in training camp. What Hue saw in him to make him so adamant about him starting over McCown was a real head-scratcher. 

True enough.   He wasnt playing horribly in that first game against the Jets (I think or maybe Eagles) before he got hurt.  As I recall, that game was close until Cammy Erving shot the ball over RGIII for a safety and that turned the game.   McCown did play better and then he got hurt as well which forced the Cody Concussler era on us.

[hoorta]

49 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

Mark, your statement just reinforces my feelings that, no matter WHO we may sign, we MUST draft a QB HIGH...#1 high! We cannot afford to let a QB class like this one escape us. Who knows when we'll be in this position again?

Mike

I sincerely hope it's not as soon as 2019 Mike.  

[Canton Mike]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

I sincerely hope it's not as soon as 2019 Mike.  

Larry,

POSITIVE thoughts ONLY!!!!  

Mike

[Mark O]

6 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

Larry,

POSITIVE thoughts ONLY!!!!  

Mike

It was funny though.. 

[Canton Mike]

17 minutes ago, Mark O said:

It was funny though.. 

Yeah, it was & I knew he meant it sarcastically.    We are just overdue for positives & at least we know the picks, etc this year will be well thought out.

Mike

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, Canton Mike said:

Yeah, it was & I knew he meant it sarcastically.    We are just overdue for positives & at least we know the picks, etc this year will be well thought out.

Mike

I don't know the picks will be....but I certainly hope that this is the year that they are all well thought out. 

[boo fagley]

18 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

well, as I've said before - everything that can be said, HAS been said about all this qb draft stuff. The Browns need to start winning now, so it seems that Mayfield has the magic in him to start far faster than the others. It could be Mayfield, and whoever else the second pick would be - I keep thinking it's Minkah - but FA.... suppose they sign Tremaine Johnson, fa, cb? That would shake up the draft a bit.

Im done beleiving that any NCAA QB is ready to start and win in the NFL as a rookie. Ive seen this movie too many times to not know how it ends.

You start winning now by landing a FA QB ready to play tomorrow. Take Barkley and youve got QB and RB covered for this season. Next, draft a QB who can hold a clipboard and learn the game to be the franchise.

[mjp28]

Just now, boo fagley said:

Im done beleiving that any NCAA QB is ready to start and win in the NFL as a rookie. Ive seen this movie too many times to not know how it ends.

You start winning now by landing a FA QB ready to play tomorrow. Take Barkley and youve got QB and RB covered for this season. Next, draft a QB who can hold a clipboard and learn the game to be the franchise.

The "rookie savior quarterback" rarely works unless he's exceptional and has a fairly complete team around him.

Grooming is best even for good prospects. 

[TexasAg1969]

3 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Im done beleiving that any NCAA QB is ready to start and win in the NFL as a rookie. Ive seen this movie too many times to not know how it ends.

You start winning now by landing a FA QB ready to play tomorrow. Take Barkley and youve got QB and RB covered for this season. Next, draft a QB who can hold a clipboard and learn the game to be the franchise.

LOL! But if you take too good a QB in FA, then you won't have a good QB available by the time you pick next year. You have to go with both the FA QB and the QB pick right now.

[mjp28]

Just now, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL! But if you take too good a QB in FA, then you won't have a good QB available by the time you pick next year. You have to go with both the FA QB and the QB pick right now.

You can pick up a FA QB and still draft who you want as a future QB.

......edit add, nice to have reserve players if you have no salary restrictions. 

[boo fagley]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL! But if you take too good a QB in FA, then you won't have a good QB available by the time you pick next year. You have to go with both the FA QB and the QB pick right now.

Cousins knows that he would be the short term answer and he buys time for the rookie to learn. If the FA goes down then youre forced to play the rookie, but all efforts should be made to avoid doing so. Kizer was not ready, Sanchez, Tribisky and so many more. Pining your hopes on a rookie QB is a recipe for disappointment. Deshaun Watson lit it up, but some folks said there were flaws in his game. 

[jiggins7919]

This is definitely the NFL silly season, but it's also the "Jiggins is scared as crap" season. While I don't believe hardly anything I read, I can't help to be absolutely terrified we'll screw this draft up. Just read that Dorsey is actively shopping one of our 1st rounders, and I can't help but think "here we go again". Yes I just said I don't believe anything I read, but history tells me we're going to trade down and I'm already ticked off. 

What I want to hear is that we're going to take a a QB first. That we're going to do our homework and select our future QB no matter what. What terrifies me the most is trading out of #1, regardless of the haul we receive, and then waiting to get our QB at #4. If we wait until pick 4, that means we could lose out on selecting our primary candidate. That would make HOW MANY years in a row we didn't take our favorite QB prospect? Not just that, but if we miss out on another QB and we have to watch him appear to be great, I think our fans would spontaneously blow up. I want us to take our favorite freaking guy, and cut the cute crap. Is it really THAT hard? 

I could be open to trading #4 if we grab our QB at 1, but I'm pretty sure I'm tired of it. I think I just want to take the best available player, who will likely be Fitzpatrick. He's probably going to be there, he fills a huge need, and I like the college pedigree. First round drafting just seems so easy, and we always make it hard. I liked Garrett and Njoku, but not Peppers. What a surprise he had a bad year. Again, not difficult. 

It might be the silly season, but for us Browns fans, it's more like the fear season. 

[Zombo]

I don't have a clear "draft this guy or we are making a horrible mistake" QB this year like I did with, say, Carson Wentz in 2016.

My offseason Browns fantasy is signing a ready-made 4k yards per year QB named Cousins and using our draft picks to make us immediately relevant in the AFC North.

I know there's a good chance that it doesn't happen, and we are "bridging" ala the Bears last year with McCarron or one of the Vikes QBs and a Top 4 QB, so I will go ahead and give my 2 cents on these guys so it is on record. FWIW, my top QB prospect last year was Deshone Kizer, so take it with a grain of something ... I don't pretend to know nearly anything about football prospects compared to NFL scouts, but I do know more than your Mom and Ghoolie.

And my "draft this guy or we are making a horrible mistake" player this year is a running back, Saquon Barkley. But here is my thoughts on the QBs:

1 Sam Darnold. I'm not afraid to admit I flip flop on Rosen and this guy. Darnold seems like gritty rust bowl QB we have been waiting for, and I might just go all in on as the draft nears ... we'll see. No gun to my in February, right? A little thicker frame than Rosen, more of a "fits in" personality, and has nice accuracy both short and long. I kinda feel like college defensive coaches were figuring him out last year, though. Long throwing process tips off when the throw is coming. Just didn't reach "greatness" last year when it was expected. But Hue Jackson, Todd Haley and Ken Zampese would LOVE to get their hands on this guy's game, you know it.

2. Josh Rosen. I've had my eye on him for the Browns since he came out of high school, and now it is lined up to happen. Prototypical NFL size, can sling it all over the field, but when it comes to leadership, I started to get a "Bo Callahan" feeling about him as his UCLA career progressed. Really looks good in a pocket though.

***There is a big dividing line for me here ... I think those two are elite prospects. The ones below could go either way, and not worth a Top 4 pick IMO:

3. Baker Mayfield. Has all the toughness you want, a real leader and sees the field well, someone will look past his size and draft him in the first round to be their QB of the future. The Manziel comparisons are unfortunate, they are wired differently, but the track record for 6 foot QBs, spread QBs, Big 12 QBs ... None of it good. But if anyone is going to break the mold and become the next Drew Brees it is this guy.

4. Mason Rudolf. Big, strong OSU passers automatically get "Weedened" by scouts, but this guy deserve a real look by somebody. He's one of these guys that improves all the time, so if someone wants to invest some real time in him they might discover a bona fide pocket passer.

5. Josh Allen. The "Big Tease". Protypical NFL pocket passer size and arm. We've all fallen in love with "this guy" before and sometimes it is boom, and sometimes it is bust. It's definitely a gamble when you dig into his stats at Wyoming. I'm gonna say he's worth a "project" late first rounder for a contending team ready to groom for the future, but he is not ready for the AFC North trial by fire he would get in Cleveland.

Zombo