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Pat Mahomo

A Chiefs fan assesment of Alex Smith and Pat Mahomes

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Smith will be available and for a team like Cleveland, he'd be a good bridge to whoever your next franchise QB is.  Let me tell you now, he isn't more than that.  You will look at his sparkling stat sheet and see that he throws for a high completion percentage, doesn't turn the ball over, and this season, his YPA was pretty good as he did go downfield more than his career numbers would suggest.  He's tough, smart and a good locker room and community guy.  You'd think by all this he is everything you could want in a QB...and for the Bills or the Browns, Jags...he CAN do what he did for us...and that is bring stability and good play to the quarterback position.  DO NOT think you are getting a guy who elevates the roster around him and makes a key play when it matters most.  He isn't that guy.  The thing about Smith that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, and you don't see it just watching a game unless you are looking for it, is that Smith will make "nothing out of something" several times a game and especially at crucial moments.  His pocket presence is awful.  Let me explain this.  When Smith takes a snap, stays in the pocket, does his reads, sets and throughs...he can throw a beautiful NFL pass...even downfield.  The problem is, Smith often will take a snap and with the slightest bit of percieved pocket getting a little tight...takes off and runs...and not aiming to throw, just to run.  He misses guys breaking open all the time because of this.  It doesn't go down as an interception, it doesn't go down as a sack.  It doesn't go down as an incomplete pass.  It looks like a two yard run on the stat sheet and keeps his other numbers from looking bad.  A fan just watching the game will get the impression that Smith is "improvising" or "buying time" when actually he has abandoned a perfectly good NFL pocket and taken a good play and made it into something completely unproductive.  He does this at various points of a football game, but the more crucial the situation, the worse his tendency to do this becomes.  You don't see Brady or Brees do this...they "win" in the pocket.  This alone is why Alex Smith is good and not great.  Just understand that is what you'd be getting...good but not great...a stablizing player at QB, but not a guy who elevates the talent around him.  We've seen enough of Mahomes to beleive the kid is a rare talent and looking forward to that era here.  If you get Smith, you'll be happy for a while.  He will get you to the next franchise QB..but he IS NOT a franchise QB. 

 

As far as Mahomes goes....having been a Kansas City fan since 86 or so and watching the long parade of mediocre game managers that have come through here....this is different and exciting.  The bad footwork knock on him coming out of college was correct, and they've made great progress on that....but just the incredible arm....He can throw to anywhere on the field from anywhere, and he can do it with zip and accuracy while moving left or right...he also has show great touch on the ball.  The thought that big arm guys can't loft a soft touch pass does not apply to Mahomes..he can make those throws too.  He is for real.

 

As far as the Browns situation....I don't believe Smith will be in Cleveland.  Alex isn't going to sign an extension to or be happy while the guy you draft 1/1 starts or will soon be starting.  You guys need a bridge QB, but no reason to trade for Smith unless you inexplicably do not draft a QB high.  You can sign one of the many cheaper veterans out there to bridge and backup your new QB...and you won't have to trade anything for them.  

 

Last observation...the latest mocks showing Allen going 1/1  ......would scare the $hit out of me if I was a Browns fan....that guy has a Mahomes type arm with none of the Mahomes accuracy.  He's Paxton Lynch 2.0.

 

I sincerely hope you long suffering Browns fans get things turned around, and that you get your QB situation setelled...I'll be watching on draft day to see what ya'all do since we basically used our first last year to get Mahomes.  Best of Luck.

 

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18 minutes ago, Pat Mahomer said:

Smith will be available and for a team like Cleveland, he'd be a good bridge to whoever your next franchise QB is.  Let me tell you now, he isn't more than that.  You will look at his sparkling stat sheet and see that he throws for a high completion percentage, doesn't turn the ball over, and this season, his YPA was pretty good as he did go downfield more than his career numbers would suggest.  He's tough, smart and a good locker room and community guy.  You'd think by all this he is everything you could want in a QB...and for the Bills or the Browns, Jags...he CAN do what he did for us...and that is bring stability and good play to the quarterback position.  DO NOT think you are getting a guy who elevates the roster around him and makes a key play when it matters most.  He isn't that guy.  The thing about Smith that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, and you don't see it just watching a game unless you are looking for it, is that Smith will make "nothing out of something" several times a game and especially at crucial moments.  His pocket presence is awful.  Let me explain this.  When Smith takes a snap, stays in the pocket, does his reads, sets and throughs...he can throw a beautiful NFL pass...even downfield.  The problem is, Smith often will take a snap and with the slightest bit of percieved pocket getting a little tight...takes off and runs...and not aiming to throw, just to run.  He misses guys breaking open all the time because of this.  It doesn't go down as an interception, it doesn't go down as a sack.  It doesn't go down as an incomplete pass.  It looks like a two yard run on the stat sheet and keeps his other numbers from looking bad.  A fan just watching the game will get the impression that Smith is "improvising" or "buying time" when actually he has abandoned a perfectly good NFL pocket and taken a good play and made it into something completely unproductive.  He does this at various points of a football game, but the more crucial the situation, the worse his tendency to do this becomes.  You don't see Brady or Brees do this...they "win" in the pocket.  This alone is why Alex Smith is good and not great.  Just understand that is what you'd be getting...good but not great...a stablizing player at QB, but not a guy who elevates the talent around him.  We've seen enough of Mahomes to beleive the kid is a rare talent and looking forward to that era here.  If you get Smith, you'll be happy for a while.  He will get you to the next franchise QB..but he IS NOT a franchise QB. 

 

As far as Mahomes goes....having been a Kansas City fan since 86 or so and watching the long parade of mediocre game managers that have come through here....this is different and exciting.  The bad footwork knock on him coming out of college was correct, and they've made great progress on that....but just the incredible arm....He can throw to anywhere on the field from anywhere, and he can do it with zip and accuracy while moving left or right...he also has show great touch on the ball.  The thought that big arm guys can't loft a soft touch pass does not apply to Mahomes..he can make those throws too.  He is for real.

 

As far as the Browns situation....I don't believe Smith will be in Cleveland.  Alex isn't going to sign an extension to or be happy while the guy you draft 1/1 starts or will soon be starting.  You guys need a bridge QB, but no reason to trade for Smith unless you inexplicably do not draft a QB high.  You can sign one of the many cheaper veterans out there to bridge and backup your new QB...and you won't have to trade anything for them.  

 

Last observation...the latest mocks showing Allen going 1/1  ......would scare the $hit out of me if I was a Browns fan....that guy has a Mahomes type arm with none of the Mahomes accuracy.  He's Paxton Lynch 2.0.

 

I sincerely hope you long suffering Browns fans get things turned around, and that you get your QB situation setelled...I'll be watching on draft day to see what ya'all do since we basically used our first last year to get Mahomes.  Best of Luck.

 

Thanks for the input. 

We (or at least I) are not looking for a team changing QB, but for a good, reliable starter. Had Kizer made half INTs he made and we could have ended with some wins last year. We have many problems and Smith would solve one.

I am very interested in what you said about Smith signing an extension. He becomes UFA in 2019, so maybe if our rookie QB is ready for 2019 he could still be an attractive option, but certainly we should take into consideration what are we going to spend for a 1 year bridge QB (considering our best case scenario: we get a franchise QB in this draft that starts in 2019, so Smith doesn't sign an extension). 

Looking at that, it makes more appealing signing AJ McCarron, for example.  Because he's way worse than Smith, but at least we wouod spend way less (he's RFA).

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welcome & thanks KC-homer..agree with your opinion on McHolmes...A) what player trade position would you consider in Smith trade (DT/WR,,,)?   Your opinion on Cam Erving trade?

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32 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

welcome & thanks KC-homer..agree with your opinion on McHolmes...A) what player trade position would you consider in Smith trade (DT/WR,,,)?   Your opinion on Cam Erving trade?

Many fans have mentioned Josh Gordon or Bitonio.  Pretty much all of us in KC, myself included, have no realistic idea about your roster or the availability of the players on it.  Depending on who you ask, and how much they they love or hate Smith (it's 50/50 in KC) you'll get different answers.  ....The trade for Cam Erving...we gave up I think a 5th rounder?  .....to me that's more or less a lottery ticket pick that we spent to see if we could get something out of a former first rounder...so I like the trade in that sense....from what I saw of Erving play....I can see why you all traded him.  For such a physical specimen, he way underplays his tools. He looked lost and timid.  Our left guard might be the worst starting guard in all of the NFL and Erving couldn't beat him out (Witzmann in case you are wondering)   

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2 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

...from what I saw of Erving play....I can see why you all traded him.  For such a physical specimen, he way underplays his tools. He looked lost and timid.  Our left guard might be the worst starting guard in all of the NFL and Erving couldn't beat him out (Witzmann in case you are wondering)   

You mean El Matador? The man has a great cape move for the bull rushers in which he never even gets touched by the bull on his way by.:rolleyes:

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There's a broken turnstile at the Brook Park rapid station, that some Browns fans have affectionately referred to as "Cam". 

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8 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

Many fans have mentioned Josh Gordon or Bitonio.  Pretty much all of us in KC, myself included, have no realistic idea about your roster or the availability of the players on it.  Depending on who you ask, and how much they they love or hate Smith (it's 50/50 in KC) you'll get different answers.  ....The trade for Cam Erving...we gave up I think a 5th rounder?  .....to me that's more or less a lottery ticket pick that we spent to see if we could get something out of a former first rounder...so I like the trade in that sense....from what I saw of Erving play....I can see why you all traded him.  For such a physical specimen, he way underplays his tools. He looked lost and timid.  Our left guard might be the worst starting guard in all of the NFL and Erving couldn't beat him out (Witzmann in case you are wondering)   

Regarding Gordon or Bitonio, no way Jose. If we trade for Smith, it will be for draft picks (we have plenty) not players. Any thoughts on what you guys might want for him? Our two high first round picks aren't available for a player like Smith. Talk here has been all over the map. MHO one of our seconds (not #33) is fair compensation. Deal?

PS, regarding Erving he was so terrible we would have paid for his plane ticket out of town. We were shocked we got anything for him. When he wasn't ole-ing in pass pro, he was missing down field blocks. For added humor, he got pancaked a few times. :)

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6 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Regarding Gordon or Bitonio, no way Jose. If we trade for Smith, it will be for draft picks (we have plenty) not players. Any thoughts on what you guys might want for him? Our two high first round picks aren't available for a player like Smith. Talk here has been all over the map. MHO one of our seconds (not #33) is fair compensation. Deal?

2nd ?.......NO DEAL !

Game changers are available in the 2nd Round. Some teams find them. Some teams don't. Don't waste a valuable 2nd Round  pick on a QB who is approaching "journeyman" status.

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I wouldn't mind trading gordon, but it's really an insult to think we'd stupidly trade Bitonio for anybody. One step foreward, three steps back? Seriously? I"d give a third round pick.

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13 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I wouldn't mind trading gordon, but it's really an insult to think we'd stupidly trade Bitonio for anybody. One step foreward, three steps back? Seriously? I"d give a third round pick.

:) Our pick from the Eagles will be either #63 or #64. Our third round pick is #65. 

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Good post Pat Mahomo.

Funny thing is this...this fall on our RV trip to Texas, we stopped a a campground for a couple nights in Missouri. Some Chiefs fans came over and were pretty cool, they saw my Browns flag.

We talked about the QBs of both franchises. As bad as the Browns record has been, the Browns have actually had more success in the last 40-50 years with the QB situation as a whole than the Chiefs. How weird that we agreed on that? The Chiefs have had Len Dawson, Joe Montana, and Alex Smith, none of them drafted, and the rest are marginal. Todd Blackledge may have been their best QB drafted, that's it.

I'm not anti-Smith, but not a huge fan either. We're so dam desperate around here, so of course it's worth a look. If he was a bit younger, and a FA, I'd say go for it easily.

Rumors, and they're hard to believe, was Arians and Hue wanted Mahomes in the worst way. The Chiefs puled the trigger, and now maybe have finally found their guy.  

Lastly, when I was a kid growing up, my second-favorite rivalry was Oakland-KC. It was just as intense as Cle-Pitt. 

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I see our name generator is back on duty. It's been a while.

2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

There's a broken turnstile at the Brook Park rapid station, that some Browns fans have affectionately referred to as "Cam". 

Priceless...

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1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Regarding Gordon or Bitonio, no way Jose. If we trade for Smith, it will be for draft picks (we have plenty) not players. Any thoughts on what you guys might want for him? Our two high first round picks aren't available for a player like Smith. Talk here has been all over the map. MHO one of our seconds (not #33) is fair compensation. Deal?

PS, regarding Erving he was so terrible we would have paid for his plane ticket out of town. We were shocked we got anything for him. When he wasn't oleing in pass pro, he was missing down field blocks. For added humor, he got pancaked a few times. :)

He pancaked himself a few times.

 

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27 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

Good post Pat Mahomo.

Funny thing is this...this fall on our RV trip to Texas, we stopped a a campground for a couple nights in Missouri. Some Chiefs fans came over and were pretty cool, they saw my Browns flag.

We talked about the QBs of both franchises. As bad as the Browns record has been, the Browns have actually had more success in the last 40-50 years with the QB situation as a whole than the Chiefs. How weird that we agreed on that? The Chiefs have had Len Dawson, Joe Montana, and Alex Smith, none of them drafted, and the rest are marginal. Todd Blackledge may have been their best QB drafted, that's it.

I'm not anti-Smith, but not a huge fan either. We're so dam desperate around here, so of course it's worth a look. If he was a bit younger, and a FA, I'd say go for it easily.

Rumors, and they're hard to believe, was Arians and Hue wanted Mahomes in the worst way. The Chiefs puled the trigger, and now maybe have finally found their guy.  

Lastly, when I was a kid growing up, my second-favorite rivalry was Oakland-KC. It was just as intense as Cle-Pitt. 

Boy, isn't that the truth about the Chiefs and the QBs they drafted.  You mentioned Blackledge...he was the ONE certified bust of the 1983 first round.  The others......3 HOF....1 other that took a team to a Super Bowl  (Eason)...and another fine QB  in O'Brien (he had a winning record vs. Marino...and may have done the same vs. Elway and Kelly...not sure.  Blackledge though...the second guy taken after Elway....a shattered vase.

As for their QBs drafted....their best is Steve Fuller....which does not say much.:

Drafted Players

 
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Rk Year Rnd Pick   Pos DrAge From To AP1 PB St CarAV G GS QBrec Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD College/Univ  
1 2017 1 10 Patrick Mahomes QB 21 2017 2017 0 0 0 1 1 1 1-0-0 22 35 284 0 1 7 10 0 Texas Tech College Stats
2 2016 5 162 Kevin Hogan QB 23 2016 2017 0 0 0 2 8 1 0-1-0 60 101 621 4 7 18 176 1 Stanford College Stats
3 2014 5 163 Aaron Murray QB 23     0 0 0                         Georgia College Stats
4 2011 5 135 Ricky Stanzi QB 24 2012 2012 0 0 0 0                       Iowa  
5 2006 3 85 Brodie Croyle QB 23 2006 2010 0 0 0 2 18 10 0-10-0 181 319 1669 8 9 10 15 0 Alabama College Stats
6 2005 7 229 James Kilian QB       0 0 0                         Tulsa College Stats
7 1997 4 110 Pat Barnes QB 22 1999 1999 0 0 0 0 1 0                   California College Stats
8 1995 4 134 Steve Stenstrom QB 23 1996 1999 0 0 0 6 17 10 1-9-0 177 314 1895 4 12 22 100 2 Stanford College Stats
9 1994 7 199 Steve Matthews QB 23 1997 1998 0 0 0 1 3 1 1-0-0 28 43 299 0 0 1 10 0 Memphis College Stats
10 1992 2 40 Matt Blundin QB 23 1993 1997 0 0 0 0 3 0   2 9 15 0 2       Virginia College Stats
11 1989 2 32 Mike Elkins QB 23 1989 1989 0 0 0 0 1 0   1 2 5 0 1       Wake Forest College Stats
12 1988 11 282 Danny McManus QB       0 0 0                         Florida St. College Stats
13 1987 7 186 Doug Hudson QB 22 1987 1987 0 0 0 0 1 1 0-1-0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 Nicholls St.  
14 1983 1 7 Todd Blackledge QB 22 1983 1989 0 0 0 12 46 29 15-14-0 424 881 5286 29 38 81 325 2 Penn St. College Stats
15 1981 12 319 Bob Gagliano QB 23 1982 1992 0 0 0 13 32 13 7-6-0 249 486 3431 17 27 93 352 4 Utah St. College Stats
16 1979 1 23 Steve Fuller QB 22 1979 1986 0 0 2 29 90 42 19-23-0 605 1066 7156 28 41 186 908 11 Clemson College Stats
17 1978 4 104 Pete Woods QB       0 0 0                         Missouri College Stats
18 1977 10 261 Mark Vitali QB       0 0 0                         Purdue College Stats
19 1976 13 361 Joe Bruner QB       0 0 0                         La-Monroe College Stats
20 1974 3 66 David Jaynes QB 21 1974 1974 0 0 0 0 2 0   0 2 0 0 1 1 0 0 Kansas College Stats
21 1972 7 179 Dean Carlson QB 22 1974 1974 0 0 0 0 1 0   7 15 116 0 1 2 17 0 Iowa St. College Stats
22 1971 13 328 Chuck Hixson QB       0 0 0                         SMU College Stats
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35 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Alex Smith on the Browns: '1-31 over the last 2 years just sounds amazing'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/alex_smith_on_the_browns_1-31.html

Here's the podcast link... comment is made around 6:00 mark, but listen from around 5:00 mark for context.

What Alex is reflecting is why he's our best chance at a high quality vet.

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1 hour ago, D Bone said:

Alex Smith on the Browns: '1-31 over the last 2 years just sounds amazing'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/alex_smith_on_the_browns_1-31.html


 

 

Well...it is amazing.   How can a team be that bad if they are not trying to be that bad.  

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3 hours ago, Furious Styles said:

2nd ?.......NO DEAL !

Game changers are available in the 2nd Round. Some teams find them. Some teams don't. Don't waste a valuable 2nd Round  pick on a QB who is approaching "journeyman" status.

As I mentioned- there's debate on how much Smith is worth. I told the crazies we're not getting Smith and draft picks, like the Osweiler deal turned out. So where will the bidding start, and what's your limit as how high you'd go for Smith? 

You probably already know I'm averse to backing up the Brinks for Cousins. Of interest to the Browns on the QB front will be how AJ McCarron's appeal turns out. RFA as opposed to UFA. May be interested if the price is right UFA (beware a guy who can't beat out Andy Dalton) but RFA at a second round tender?  Forget it. He's not worth our #33. Hopefully Dorsey has more sense than Hue when it comes to evaluating QBs. 

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Well...it is amazing.   How can a team be that bad if they are not trying to be that bad.  

Practice..... 

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on both the Patrick and Eison shows he made it pretty damn clear that he did not want to come to Cleveland

 

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Well...it is amazing.   How can a team be that bad if they are not trying to be that bad.  

I think they were trying to be that bad. Not the players, but the front office that is. 

The reason we never see nba rebuilds in the NFL is starting that many first and second year players is guaranteeing a lousy season, especially when your QB is 21 years old. 

Historically speaking, a 21 year old QB having a good rookie season is the exception, not the rule.  The more I look at it, the more I realize how serious Sashi was when he said the team wouldn’t be able to compete until year 3.  Cutting the vets loose, shopping for bargain bin QBs, trading down like madmen.... it all adds up to what we got, 2 miserable years, and treasure trove of off season assets to build for the third year. 6 of the top 65 picks, and 110 mil in cap space is lunacy.

while Sashi was the sacrificial lamb, there wasn’t exactly a complete FO overhaul, which tells me that the FO at least mostly did what they said they’d do, even if the fans don’t like it. 

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11 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

Many fans have mentioned Josh Gordon or Bitonio.  Pretty much all of us in KC, myself included, have no realistic idea about your roster or the availability of the players on it.     

Most teams Gm's won't consider Gordon as a trade-able asset as of yet..maybe trade deadline? Forget Bitonio..this past off season Joel was re-up'd to a 6 year deal till 2023..Sashi got that one right..ok maybe two? Cam-Stile Erv cost KC your 5th..Timid is a good word for Cam, that Kiper & many others need to learn..   

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12 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

from what I saw of Erving play....I can see why you all traded him.  For such a physical specimen, he way underplays his tools. He looked lost and timid.  Our left guard might be the worst starting guard in all of the NFL and Erving couldn't beat him out

...he's pretty pathetic.  And he's an example of why we haven't improved.  First round picks have to move your team forward...not backwards.  

Good luck with Mahomes.  I was hoping that we might've walked away from the draft with him.  Instead we wound up with Peppers...who they let stand at the opposite end of the field like a goalie.  

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38 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Alex Smith to Washington for a 3rd was announced last night.

That must mean Cousins to the Browns.

Not necessarily.

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Not necessarily.

Killjoy!

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1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

Killjoy!

Delusion breaker. Want to go over to the political board?:P

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21 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Delusion breaker. Want to go over to the political board?:P

I prefer staying over here, and make the Browns great again!

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Just now, Canton Dawg said:

I prefer staying over here, and make the Browns great again!

LOL! Me too most of the time, but it is fun to go tweak a tail or two now and again.:D

Sorry about your Dad. Just read that on another thread.

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1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL! Me too most of the time, but it is fun to go tweak a tail or two now and again.:D

Sorry about your Dad. Just read that on another thread.

He was the guy responsible for making me a Browns fan.

Would that be considered a family curse these days? :)

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