Let the hand-wringing begin

[ChicopeeJohn]

Women's March Madness:

"The day's biggest cheers came when activists in Las Vegas thanked Senate Democrats, and said that the government shutdown should not end until immigrants brought to the United States as children won legal status."

"We stand in solidarity with the Dreamers and with the senators who are fighting back and saying, they are Americans too", said Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards".

- Both quotes came from an AP article written by Haven Daley and John Locher.      Published in the Hartford Courant on January 22, 2018

[calfoxwc]

I bet that Trump is more likely to pull a Nixon by firing/replacing people above Mueller so they will fire him. Reason is that Trump is ignorant of history or he would not have already fired Comey and admitted it was for the Russia investigation. It was just as good as the Nixon WH tapes because it's right there on videotape. Get rid of the one man both sides said up front was the absolute best for the position and watch the fireworks begin. TexAg

********************************************

It's politically expedient for you to say that, but the truth is:

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/01/president-trumps-first-year/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=6c086a8031-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-6c086a8031-20770865#axzz54uzIcxoI

and the corrupt deep state, starting with good nazi type dirty comey pronouncing Higgardly is not guilty well before  the major part of the pretend investigation was finished - at dirty lynch's instruction. fbi agents saying they have to have something to prevent Trump from actually becoming president...and you have dirty mueller, rosenstien, holder, obaMao, and a cast of other crooks, who sold out our country's uranium to russia.

and now, the fbi has admitted months of text messages by those dirty fbi agents plotting against Trump were deleted.and you have the fabricated, paid for by higgardly and the dnc AND THE FBI... fake dossier that they used to get Trump,'which is what they did it all for - they faked reason to spy on him. That is many, many thousands of times more serious that watergate.

the leftist corrupt deep state filth goes even deeper. Stay tuned. The corrupt leftist deep state is in very serious legal trouble, and the new report is going to be a bombshell.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Another thing about a shut down.  You may or may not realize it, but all the people who are deemed 'non-essential' and sent home, will all get back pay.  So essentially, they are getting a free paid vacation courtesy of the taxpayer.  

That's true DieHard. I recall having that happen when I worked for the VA, though I was not furloughed myself because of the essential clause. I'm not sure how that affected hourly paid people though. Most were on annual salary.

[Westside Steve]

13 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I think it really bothers you guys that I can be an independent thinker with a conservative background who thinks we have a traitor in the WH. Every time I bring it up out come the "liberal" labels because you just can't fathom how a conservative thinker has come to a different conclusion than you. He's a corrupt liar who is doing a PT Barnum on this democracy and tearing it apart to protect his ill gotten gains. Mueller is going to prove it in court. Follow the money of the Trump Empire and it leads back to Russia. Sooner or later you will understand you've been conned.

Tex, I like you just fine. But you are no more of an independent thinker than Cal. I can't tell from reading your posts what particular conservative ideals you support but it certainly seems like your entire political perspective is based on a personal hatred of the president.

Let me ask you a straight question. Do you think the resolution to fund the government should be tied to amnesty for the so-called dreamers?   Plus could you answer that question without unnecessary comments about tax cuts for the rich or the Russians?

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

3 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Tex, I like you just fine. But you are no more of an independent thinker than Cal. I can't tell from reading your posts what particular conservative ideals you support but it certainly seems like your entire political perspective is based on a personal hatred of the president.

Let me ask you a straight question. Do you think the resolution to fund the government should B tide to amnesty for the so-called dreamers?   Plus could you answer that question without unnecessary comments about tax cuts for the rich or the Russians?

WSS

I have never tried to hide my animosity for Trump because of his pathological lying (See my edit above). That doesn't make him impeachable as explained above unless he crossed the line into criminal behavior which must then be proven in a court of law. As to the Dreamers it appears that both sides agree on this and I don't think it should be tied to the shutdown. What I'm not sure of is exactly what Trump has agree to, first with the bipartisan group led by Graham and then the individual agreement with Schumer, only to go back on both after being influenced by the radical right who don't believe in compromise any more than those on the radical left. And that is the kind of thing that drives decent elected officials crazy, Trump cannot be counted on to be a man of his word because he doesn't even understand the concept. Pathological liars never do.

[calfoxwc]

omgawd. but obaMao wasn't a liar? LOL Eight years of lying by the dems, corrupt activities by the dems? But NOW

indignant claims against TRUMP ? lol.

it just never ends. Some folks just are indoctrinated by the deep state. It's hopeless.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

28 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

That's true DieHard. I recall having that happen when I worked for the VA, though I was not furloughed myself because of the essential clause. I'm not sure how that affected hourly paid people though. Most were on annual salary.

After I retired from the Navy in 1994, I also worked for the VA in Risk Management.  We had a shut down (I think in 1995?) and I had to work also.  Many of my friends however got a couple week paid vacation, which really pissed me off!

[Westside Steve]

15 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I have never tried to hide my animosity for Trump because of his pathological lying (See my edit above). That doesn't make him impeachable as explained above unless he crossed the line into criminal behavior which must then be proven in a court of law. As to the Dreamers it appears that both sides agree on this and I don't think it should be tied to the shutdown. What I'm not sure of is exactly what Trump has agree to, first with the bipartisan group led by Graham and then the individual agreement with Schumer, only to go back on both after being influenced by the radical right who don't believe in compromise any more than those on the radical left. And that is the kind of thing that drives decent elected officials crazy, Trump cannot be counted on to be a man of his word because he doesn't even understand the concept. Pathological liars never do.

So after all this superfluous typing...

DACA should not be linked to the budget agreement. Fine. Nor should any other immigration policies be tied to it. See how simple that was?

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

3 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

So after all this superfluous typing...

DACA should not be linked to the budget agreement. Fine. Nor should any other immigration policies be tied to it. See how simple that was?

WSS

I don't think typing in that a sitting president has twice given his word and then broke it is superfluous to the shutdown. That is something that he agreed to whether either of us likes it or not and then reneged. That is the real issue for me. My or your wanting it not tied has nothing to do with that main issue. The issue is a man and his word.

[Westside Steve]

3 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I don't think typing in that a sitting president has twice given his word and then broke it is superfluous to the shutdown. That is something that he agreed to whether either of us likes it or not and then reneged. That is the real issue for me. My or your wanting it not tied has nothing to do with that main issue. The issue is a man and his word.

He hasn't given his word about anything and I asked you a simple question. 

As a matter of fact Chuck Schumer's offer to fund the wall has nothing to do with it.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[Westside Steve]

So another question for you Tex. In your own words, and to the best of your recollection, what was the specific deal that the president made as accurately as you can recall and how was it changed at the last minute?

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

44 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

So another question for you Tex. In your own words, and to the best of your recollection, what was the specific deal that the president made as accurately as you can recall and how was it changed at the last minute?

WSS

As I already stated I was not in the room to know the details of the promises to Graham's bipartisan group or to Shumer's individual meeting. Or to what led Mitch McConnell to make his statements of needing to know what Trump really wanted because he waffles back and forth. What I do know is that several people in both parties are not getting what they need from Trump. What is important now is the McConnell speech just a few minutes ago that extends funding on a bi-partisan agreement to Feb. 8. McConnell has taken control of the leadership of the Republican party and as far as I am concerned that is a good thing. He is willing to negotiate all issues with full hearings including amendments from both sides and that is new. That is the government I want to see, where gridlock ends and true listening and negotiating begins. That is a democracy and not an autocratic dictatorship. Civics 101 and I like it.

[Westside Steve]

3 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

As I already stated I was not in the room to know the details of the promises to Graham's bipartisan group or to Shumer's individual meeting. Or to what led Mitch McConnell to make his statements of needing to know what Trump really wanted because he waffles back and forth. What I do know is that several people in both parties are not getting what they need from Trump. What is important now is the McConnell speech just a few minutes ago that extends funding on a bi-partisan agreement to Feb. 8. McConnell has taken control of the leadership of the Republican party and as far as I am concerned that is a good thing. He is willing to negotiate all issues with full hearings including amendments from both sides and that is new. That is the government I want to see, where gridlock ends and true listening and negotiating begins. That is a democracy and not an autocratic dictatorship. Civics 101 and I like it.

All I'm trying to do is get a straight answer out of you. I'm not being insulting. But if you're going to claim that the president made a deal and then reneged that's one thing. If you're going to hedge your statement by saying that you don't know because you weren't in the room that's quite another.

What's say I'm not even holding you to an exact accounting. What would be your guess as to the president's promise and which Provisions did he change after making it? Just a guess would be fine.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

oh, baloney.McConnell was just saying that the dems need to step up and stop being obstinate about stopping

the entire work of the Congress as a political ploy. He's finally showing some leadership, and schumer is looking like

a hippo's arse more and more. They played their stupid destroy the republican president at the cost of our entire country, right into

the rest of America seeing the dems for what they are: corrupt deep state-ists who want the border to remain wide open for dem

votes in 2020. The dems could easily have funded the wall, which is what WE WANT, but they refuse. The reps are fine with moving on DACA, with resttrictions, but the dems refuse.

guess what - the problem is the dems/activists/gov shutdowners for no good reason.

there's a vote today to end the standoff.. At least six? dems need to grow some courage and start being

AMERICANS instead of good little nazi brownshirt sombietches.

[TexasAg1969]

26 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

All I'm trying to do is get a straight answer out of you. I'm not being insulting. But if you're going to claim that the president made a deal and then reneged that's one thing. If you're going to hedge your statement by saying that you don't know because you weren't in the room that's quite another.

What's say I'm not even holding you to an exact accounting. What would be your guess as to the president's promise and which Provisions did he change after making it? Just a guess would be fine.

WSS

Steve my best understanding is that Graham and Durbin presented their comprehensive bipartisan immigration reform, DACA, border reform, etc. to the President who agreed to sign it. Then two days later he reneged.  Shumer's seemed less specific but included giving the funding for the wall as a part of the border reforms. Again he said Trump agreed and again reneged. The real problem is the real racist in the WH, Steven Miller. He keeps bending Trump's ear and I think causing this continued problem with going back on his words to both parties, Rep & Dem. That is what you hear senate Republicans complaining about more vocally each day. That is why you can hear them taking over leadership because they can't count on Trump to take a stand and stay there on bipartisan agreements.

 

[TexasAg1969]

12 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

oh, baloney.McConnell was just saying that the dems need to step up and stop being obstinate about stopping

the entire work of the Congress as a political ploy. He's finally showing some leadership, and schumer is looking like

a hippo's arse more and more. They played their stupid destroy the republican president at the cost of our entire country, right into

the rest of America seeing the dems for what they are: corrupt deep state-ists who want the border to remain wide open for dem

votes in 2020. The dems could easily have funded the wall, which is what WE WANT, but they refuse. The reps are fine with moving on DACA, with resttrictions, but the dems refuse.

guess what - the problem is the dems/activists/gov shutdowners for no good reason.

there's a vote today to end the standoff.. At least six? dems need to grow some courage and start being

AMERICANS instead of good little nazi brownshirt sombietches.

Quite emotional there Mr. Spock.

[TexasAg1969]

Let's take a poll. Do you think they fund the gov till Feb. 8 and do they finally come up with a comprehensive agreement concerning all these issues? Two part question.

[Westside Steve]

7 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Steve my best understanding is that Graham and Durbin presented their comprehensive bipartisan immigration reform, DACA, border reform, etc. to the President who agreed to sign it. Then two days later he reneged. That's what Shumer's seemed less specific but included giving the funding for the wall as a part of the border reforms. Again he said Trump agreed and again reneged. The real problem is the real racist in the WH, Steven Miller. He keeps bending Trump's ear and I think causing this continued problem with going back on his words to both parties, Rep & Dem. That is what you here senate Republicans complaining about more vocally each day. That is why you can hear them taking over leadership because they can't count on Trump to take a stand and stay there on bipartisan agreements.

 

First of all I believe what Chuck Schumer says about as much as you believe what Donald Trump says. Also the deal on the wall came after the impasse. It also included the continuance of the immigration Lottery as well as chain immigration which the president has always being against. How about you? 

 

WSS

 

[Westside Steve]

 

This is CBS News, not exactly The Blaze.

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

3 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

First of all I believe what Chuck Schumer says about as much as you believe what Donald Trump says. Also the deal on the wall came after the impasse. It also included the continuance of the immigration Lottery as well as chain immigration which the president has always being against. How about you? 

 

WSS

 

As I said I do not know the details of the agreement with Shumer. Never saw it explained. I was more concerned anyway with the bipartisan agreement Graham & Durbin brought to him and thought they had agreement on with the president to sign if passed. Graham is still miffed at his shifting gears constantly when Miller gets involved.

[Canton Dawg]

16 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I think it really bothers you guys that I can be an independent thinker with a conservative background who thinks we have a traitor in the WH. Every time I bring it up out come the "liberal" labels because you just can't fathom how a conservative thinker has come to a different conclusion than you. He's a corrupt liar who is doing a PT Barnum on this democracy and tearing it apart to protect his ill gotten gains. Mueller is going to prove it in court. Follow the money of the Trump Empire and it leads back to Russia. Sooner or later you will understand you've been conned.

Mueller and associates have been investigating the Trump/Russia collusion for over a year and a half and nothing has been brought forward.

If Trump was knee deep in cahoots with the Soviets, they would've found it long ago...and trust me, they would announce it far and wide.

I was never a Trump supporter, but more of an anti-Hillary and anti mainstream media guy.

The more I see the MSM grasping at straws to find any little thing on Trump, it makes me warm and fuzzy on the inside.

I get out of bed every day giddy, because I know that another fukkin Clinton won't be in the White House.

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

As I said I do not know the details of the agreement with Shumer. Never saw it explained. I was more concerned anyway with the bipartisan agreement Graham & Durbin brought to him and thought they had agreement on with the president to sign if passed. Graham is still miffed at his shifting gears constantly when Miller gets involved.

Yet in truth you have no idea what was included in this bipartisan agreement or how either party may or may not have changed it at the last minute. Nor do I.

This is my guess. And only a guess. They were close to an agreement Trump said something mean about shiteholes (of which Haiti and many African nations certainly qualify as) and Senator Schumer took that opportunity to try to force a poison pill DACA provision into it.

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

What I hear going on today finally is the centrists in both major parties are taking back government from the left and right wingnuts in their respective parties. That is a major step from the past decade plus.

[Westside Steve]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

What I hear going on today finally is the centrists in both major parties are taking back government from the left and right wingnuts in their respective parties. That is a major step from the past decade plus.

Yes. We shall see. By the way it's good to have a civil discussion about this crap. For myself I've never seen Trump has being a crazed right winger. Which is why so many of the never trumper's seem to hate him. 

I was more angry with the freedom caucus, or whatever they call themselves, for blocking the legislation most of which I agree with wholeheartedly.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

What I hear going on today finally is the centrists in both major parties are taking back government from the left and right wingnuts in their respective parties. That is a major step from the past decade plus.

Would be great if true

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Ya man.

[TexasAg1969]

Here is a list (by party) of the bi-partisan group of centrists who finally broke the gridlock together. Support the ones of your choice. I wish I lived in Maine where Independent King and moderate Republican Collins would represent my conservative independent thinking quite well. They don't always vote the same way, but they both are very good at listening to all sides of an issue before making up their own independent minds to cast their votes. I also am glad to see 3 of my siblings represented by common sense Republican Cory Gardner of Colorado. At least I have Cornyn who hangs out with Graham on many issues and was part of the bipartisan group that thought they had an agreement with Trump. Texas' Cruz has no backbone and sniveled up to Trump's butt despite Trump claiming Cruz's father was in on the JFK assassination and his wife was an ugly wart or something. No respect for a man who won't stand up for his family.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/21/us/politics/bipartisan-senators-government-shutdown.html

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Here is a list (by party) of the bi-partisan group of centrists who finally broke the gridlock together. Support the ones of your choice. I wish I lived in Maine where Independent King and moderate Republican Collins would represent my conservative independent thinking quite well. They don't always vote the same way, but they both are very good at listening to all sides of an issue before making up their own independent minds to cast their votes. I also am glad to see 3 of my siblings represented by common sense Republican Cory Gardner of Colorado. At least I have Cornyn who hangs out with Graham on many issues and was part of the bipartisan group that thought they had an agreement with Trump. Texas' Cruz has no backbone and sniveled up to Trump's butt despite Trump claiming Cruz's father was in on the JFK assassination and his wife was an ugly wart or something. No respect for a man who won't stand up for his family.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/21/us/politics/bipartisan-senators-government-shutdown.html

It's good to keep your wishes within reach. I don't know where you live in Texas but it's just under 2000 miles from Dallas to Bangor.

Also I would guess that the number of illegals is much less than in Texas.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

And then there's this...

 

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/census/state-minority-population-data-estimates.html