Jump to content
SissyBoyFloyd

Are you all so sure Kizer can't be your QB?

Recommended Posts

Don't you remember how bad Aikman and Bradshaw were their first year and until they were surrounded by talented skill players?  Wouldn't it be smart to simply draft your first choice at 1, but still let Kizer have a half year or more if necessary surrounded by talent.  Still bringing in an experienced older qb to teach both of your young qbs.  You then have hopefully 2 young qbs starter and backup on the cheap for 4 years.  The older experienced guy to mentor will come cheap since he won't be coming to actually be a starter ..... ie.  Maybe a Josh McCown type.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get it.  So just because Aikman and Bradshaw (who go way back) made it, we should apply that to all horribly performing QBs?  Kizer just simply doesn't have it, he never really did have it.  He has a strong arm, but inaccurate as hell, holds onto the ball too long, and can't read defenses...not to mention he locks onto receivers as well.  There's just too much going wrong with him and I'm not comfortable with the wait it out game..  When you are presented with the chance to secure a true franchise QB, especially suffering through Kizer last season, you DO IT and don't second guess it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Soju said:

I don't get it.  So just because Aikman and Bradshaw (who go way back) made it, we should apply that to all horribly performing QBs?  Kizer just simply doesn't have it, he never really did have it.  He has a strong arm, but inaccurate as hell, holds onto the ball too long, and can't read defenses...not to mention he locks onto receivers as well.  There's just too much going wrong with him and I'm not comfortable with the wait it out game..  When you are presented with the chance to secure a true franchise QB, especially suffering through Kizer last season, you DO IT and don't second guess it.

Name me all of the good WRs that actually can run deep routes or even can CATCH the ball consistently.......oh besides the returning project Flash Gordon. And way back, yes that's how rare franchise QBs can be plus those two mentioned had some good targets on the team.

It's not all the very young and super inexperienced QB at all. Hopefully the BROWNS can get a journeyman QB as a stopgap measure to start or at least have a good QB competition on this ZERO win team, even Kizer would  be better than another rookie saviour. Maybe draft another project in the second round, OH and I and many others do NOT see any true franchise QBs in this bunch, we'll see. 

 ........and we can quit beating up this dead horse again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm completely down for giving the kid another year, under different circumstances. Just the fact the kid can play every game without some type of injury puts him ahead of the game in Cleveland. We are so used to seeing browns go 2, 3, and even 4 deep in a season. Physically being able to play the position has to count for something.  Plus I question the quality of coaching kiser has actually gotten since high school.  For a guy that should have gotten the kiddie glove treatment Jackson treated him like he was Drew Brees from day 1. What did he avg. 30+ passes a game. I'd be willing to bet his pass attempts were up there as far as rookie numbers go. Which are not that far off from some really good qbs first year. Matt Stafford, Steve young, Terry Bradshaw, and Troy Aikman come to mind. And we all know who was working with as far as supportive casts.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, cdl15 said:

I'm completely down for giving the kid another year, under different circumstances. Just the fact the kid can play every game without some type of injury puts him ahead of the game in Cleveland. We are so used to seeing browns go 2, 3, and even 4 deep in a season. Physically being able to play the position has to count for something.  Plus I question the quality of coaching kiser has actually gotten since high school.  For a guy that should have gotten the kiddie glove treatment Jackson treated him like he was Drew Brees from day 1. What did he avg. 30+ passes a game. I'd be willing to bet his pass attempts were up there as far as rookie numbers go. Which are not that far off from some really good qbs first year. Matt Stafford, Steve young, Terry Bradshaw, and Troy Aikman come to mind. And we all know who was working with as far as supportive casts.

And Aaron Rodgers among others not that Kizer is at the level of any of those mentioned ......but neither are Rosen or Darnold  (in my humble opinion).

I guess we're in the shitcan Kizer or build the team with blue chip picks on draft day and their 12 picks and obtain the services of a FA or other QB. 

Oh god the tension I can't stand it.:mellow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Browns are not in the position to pass on a top QB (again) to take a chance that Kizer - a mid-second rounder - progresses.

I'm all for keeping Kizer and letting him learn his craft - as a backup.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Dutch Oven said:

The Browns are not in the position to pass on a top QB (again) to take a chance that Kizer - a mid-second rounder - progresses.

I'm all for keeping Kizer and letting him learn his craft - as a backup.

So taking one of this bunch at #4 is the final answer, well it certainly will be doable because one of them will be there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you all so sure Kizer can't be your QB?

No.  And for all of the reasons that you stated in the OP.  But we should still draft a QB at #! overall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who sat through the trainwreck that was Deshone Kizer and can state they see him as a franchise QB needs to take a break from football. Maybe get into tennis or something. Just because he was given a crap hand doesn't he is a good QB. He sucks, plain and simple.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Anyone who sat through the trainwreck that was Deshone Kizer and can state they see him as a franchise QB needs to take a break from football. Maybe get into tennis or something. Just because he was given a crap hand doesn't he is a good QB. He sucks, plain and simple.

 

 

Brady, Marino, Aikman, Young, Montana...................//..................... maybe in ?? years Kizer. I don't think anyone is confusing him with a franchise quarterback.  Hopefully he can be adequate given a supporting cast and some time, who knows. The 1-31 BROWNS were an historic train wreck of which he was just a part.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is something I've been coming around on more and more, but the problem remains that you can't bet the farm on Kizer being the guy. I would really like to know where this year's QBs rank with the past few year's QBs. That make sense? Like, coming out of school, head to head, where do Rosen, Darnold, Allen, and Mayfield rank when compared to...say...Wentz, Goff, Watson, Mahomes, Trubisky, and others? I honestly don't know. 

Kizer will get the full advantage of knowing the offensive system, the players, the protections, and a full year of big-boy experience under his belt. That can't be understated, and if the game ever slows down for Kizer and he gets his confidence, I DO think he has what it takes to make it. But even saying all that, we still need to take a QB early because there's no way to know, and we simply HAVE TO throw as many darts against the board as possible until we get it right. 

Another question is, do you still take a QB at 1 if we bring in a veteran QB? Obviously it depends on WHO the guy is, but even if it's Alex Smith at 35 years old, I happen to believe it opens up some options. Imagine getting 3 years of "No worry" QB play. Is it guaranteed? Of course not, but QBs that take care of their body can play to 38, perhaps a little longer if they don't get beaten up. In this scenario, Kizer is the backup. That's not too bad in the world of backup qb's, and who knows, maybe Kizer gets significantly better this year? 

All I know is, it's going to be nutso come March. We're probably going to draft a QB early, we're probably not getting Alex Smith, and Kizer probably won't end up being a franchise QB. BUT...I wouldn't bet against him either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I’m not counting Kizer out, this FO doesn’t have the luxury of taking that risk.  Dorsey was brought in to find the QB, and he knows it. The only way I see this FO not drafting a QB at #1 is if they manage to sign cousins. 

 

Edit: the Bradshaw comparison doesn’t hold water. Bradshaw would never get a chance to win Sheet in the modern nfl. he was absolute trash at the beginning, no team is that patient these days. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say................GO GET SMITH OR COUSINS............then draft a QB, a RB, and a receiver. I DO NOT want to see Kizer or a rookie take the field the first game next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, SissyBoyFloyd said:

Don't you remember how bad Aikman and Bradshaw were their first year and until they were surrounded by talented skill players?  Wouldn't it be smart to simply draft your first choice at 1, but still let Kizer have a half year or more if necessary surrounded by talent.  Still bringing in an experienced older qb to teach both of your young qbs.  You then have hopefully 2 young qbs starter and backup on the cheap for 4 years.  The older experienced guy to mentor will come cheap since he won't be coming to actually be a starter ..... ie.  Maybe a Josh McCown type.

Well, if you remember, Kessler was penciled in to be our starter last season.  So Kizer didn't get much practice reps.  Let's see what he can bring if we don't go out and get a vet.  If we do, just let him sit and learn along with our draft (QB) pick.  I think you'd be surprised by his 2nd year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Making mistakes as a qb is one thing - but not seeing the field/processing it all quickly is innate - some got it, some don't.

Most need it in the pros, if not all. On the chance he really is lacking in those skills, the Browns need to draft a qb high,

drafting the right guy for the team, the city, the fans, and the wins.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

Making mistakes as a qb is one thing - but not seeing the field/processing it all quickly is innate - some got it, some don't.

Most need it in the pros, if not all. On the chance he really is lacking in those skills, the Browns need to draft a qb high,

drafting the right guy for the team, the city, the fans, and the wins.

Yes, I also believe we need to draft a QB with the first pick.  And like I said, if we bring in a vet, then let him play.  Otherwise, let Kizer start and our high draft pick sit behind him and learn.  I know our fans will be looking for Kizer to make mistakes, but we have to be patient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We should still draft a QB #1, if Kizer comes to camp and plays lights out, and all the sudden we might have 2 QBs who can play thats a good thing. I know it took Drew Brees a couple of years and SD still drafted Rivers because Brees didn't start playing well until they drafted Rivers. So draft the QB #1 and if Kizer pans out, its a bonus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Browns have to draft a QB at #1.  However, I think Kizer has shown flashes here and there.  He had a strong start in the season opener against the Steelers, imploded, then made some progress and then imploded the last 2 games, probably trying to do too much to try to drag this team to a win.  I think with enough reps he will become more steady.  He has shown a good work ethic and durability, and has remarkable maturity for someone so young.  I think he'll be decent given a full off season to work with, a good thing for us since the #1 draft pick doesn't have to be thrown in right away.  I have a hunch the Browns will get AJ McCarron in the offseason as the veteran presence, starting job will be between him and Kizer but I think Kizer has the higher ceiling (admittedly, McCarron hasn't played in many games so hard to tell, but if he still hasn't beat out Dalton I am not holding my breath on him becoming a franchise QB).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kizer can have a spot on the team.  He can compete with whomever the Browns draft to replace him.   God knows nothing is certain when it comes to the Browns drafting QBs. 

I would:

A.  Draft a QB high....yes, probably at #1  Who? Who the hell knows.

B. Draft another QB lower.....ala RGIII and Cousins

C. Keep Kizer to compete

D. Bring in a veteran/bridge QB

E. Kessler and Hogan maybe kept on...but merely as camp fodder

Keep EVERY option open when it comes to the QB spot.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you all so sure Kizer can't be your QB?

No... but I don't like his odds, so time to go fishin'... again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, thomam3 said:

I hope to never see Kizer play again for the Browns. Not even in the pre-season ;)

 

With injuries and everything else I'd bet money you will see Kizer at some point in 2018.

Browns fans everywhere better get used to the idea that there will be NO franchise quarterbacks on the field in 2018.....on their team.

Again, PLAN B -

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember, Billy Football had a game or two of statistically useful play.. so simply citing That Game He Wasn't The Worst doesn't defend Kizer's consistency.

The truth hurts.

Kizer isn't an NFL starter -- and JM isn't for that matter a CFL starter.  Is he worthy of a roster spot? Sure! Let the kid call the plays in!  But he's no franchise player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/19/2018 at 2:54 AM, SissyBoyFloyd said:

Don't you remember how bad Aikman and Bradshaw were their first year and until they were surrounded by talented skill players?  Wouldn't it be smart to simply draft your first choice at 1, but still let Kizer have a half year or more if necessary surrounded by talent.  Still bringing in an experienced older qb to teach both of your young qbs.  You then have hopefully 2 young qbs starter and backup on the cheap for 4 years.  The older experienced guy to mentor will come cheap since he won't be coming to actually be a starter ..... ie.  Maybe a Josh McCown type.

Not a bad job of defending your point; but this guy didn't make himself a consensus #1 QB of a draft class like Aikman did.  There's some 70s lyrics popularized by England Dan and John Ford Coley that go like this: "It's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."  

They're going to keep Kizer here so he'll get more chances.  That said, they're also going to try to improve the QB competition here that will will make the position stronger (if we ever get the right guys here)....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Not a bad job of defending your point; but this guy didn't make himself a consensus #1 QB of a draft class like Aikman did.  There's some 70s lyrics popularized by England Dan and John Ford Coley that go like this: "It's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."  

They're going to keep Kizer here so he'll get more chances.  That said, they're also going to try to improve the QB competition here that will will make the position stronger (if we ever get the right guys here)....

Of course, there are some other lyrics that apply to this whole debate:

"There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy, there's just you and me and we just disagree"    Dave Mason I believe.B)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

since 99..I nominate Johnny Cash.."I fell in to a Burning Ring of Fire" :P ( and it burns,burns,burns..that ring of fire..that ring of fire)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Flugel said:

Not a bad job of defending your point; but this guy didn't make himself a consensus #1 QB of a draft class like Aikman did.  There's some 70s lyrics popularized by England Dan and John Ford Coley that go like this: "It's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."  

They're going to keep Kizer here so he'll get more chances.  That said, they're also going to try to improve the QB competition here that will will make the position stronger (if we ever get the right guys here)....

One huge difference Aikman had good talent around him to start in 1989....

Aikman would eventually win three Super Bowl rings with the Cowboys, and led the team to four consecutive NFC championship games - 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995 seasons, with victories in 1992, 1993, and 1995.

Kizer isn't there now. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×