Are you all so sure Kizer can't be your QB?

[Tour2ma]

Sitting would have been better for Kizer...

Seeing if he was "the one" was best for the Browns.

None of the "QBs with wins" we "shed" were our future.

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Sitting would have been better for Kizer...

Seeing if he was "the one" was best for the Browns.

And which of those do WE care about?

[Westside Steve]

27 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Sitting would have been better for Kizer...

Seeing if he was "the one" was best for the Browns.

None of the "QBs with wins" we "shed" were our future.

Or apparently the ones we kept. Possibly even less so.

 

WSS

[Tour2ma]

14 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Or apparently the ones we kept. Possibly even less so.

Which we know because???

[Westside Steve]

20 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Which we know because???

Guessing? Speculation? Just like you.

Less so because one of the ones we let go could have possibly won one game for us. I'd say the odds are better than even.

WSS

[Tour2ma]

I agree... RG3 might have equaled his 2016 win output...

[Westside Steve]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I agree... RG3 might have equaled his 2016 win output...

Josh McCown could have equal his 2017 win output. Do you not think we'd have won more games with him as the starter? Even if it was only one or two wed still be in position to draft one of the top quarterbacks and go into the 2018 season with an experienced veteran and a much better rookie prospect. And quite possibly a decent starter with the pick we wasted on Kizer.

WSS

[hoorta]

On 1/23/2018 at 6:21 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

Give it up Ghoolie. Some day you will be right on Brady, but it hasn't happened yet. He understands and uses a very sophisticated offense that is very difficult to blitz on a regular basis. NFL D coordinators get it. Those little fleas he throws to have tree routes based off both receivers and QB reading the blitz and they are very good at reading to get open in the right places on time.

Don't confuse Tom with advanced stuff like route trees, and pre snap reads...   

[TexasAg1969]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

Don't confuse Tom with advanced stuff like route trees, and pre snap reads...   

LOL! I didn't expect him to know anything about defense, but he claims offense wins championships, so..............................................

Maybe he thinks tree routes is what gets into your septic system if you have big trees growing  too close to it. I know I had to have one cleaned out and the tree removed once.

[nickers]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL! I didn't expect him to know anything about defense, but he claims offense wins championships, so..............................................

Maybe he thinks tree routes is what gets into your septic system if you have big trees growing  too close to it. I know I had to have one cleaned out and the tree removed once.

Make sure you have a clear and long enough leach line... LOL

[Westside Steve]

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

Don't confuse Tom with advanced stuff like route trees, and pre snap reads...   

I get the whole thing trolling Etc but keep in mind that whenever anyone gets all high and mighty about their deep knowledge of the game at the end of the day we were 0 and 16 and it would appear that Tommy was right so far.

Best bet would be to go 8 + 8 this coming season then perhaps we can gloat.

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

I get the whole thing trolling Etc but keep in mind that whenever anyone gets all high and mighty about their deep knowledge of the game at the end of the day we were 0 and 16 and it would appear that Tommy was right so far.

Best bet would be to go 8 + 8 this coming season then perhaps we can gloat.

WSS

Steve-I didn't see anyone here predicting even close to 8-8 this past season after the 1-15 and no experienced QB on the roster. Highest I recall might have been 4 wins (Not counting Po). Correct me if I am wrong. Now did we think we would beat 1 win?-sure. And if we had had a real OC instead of Redzone Huey we shoulda had 3-4.

[Westside Steve]

17 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Steve-I didn't see anyone here predicting even close to 8-8 this past season after the 1-15 and no experienced QB on the roster. Highest I recall might have been 4 wins (Not counting Po). Correct me if I am wrong. Now did we think we would beat 1 win?-sure. And if we had had a real OC instead of Redzone Huey we shoulda had 3-4.

I think you misunderstand. People bitched and bitched and bitched about ghooley and his threads about how the coaching staff and the players on the field suck but every year the team has been worse and worse. All I'm saying is it if we are going to shut people like him up we have to go 8 and 8. That's just the way it is.

WSS

[The Gipper]

10 hours ago, hoorta said:

Don't confuse Tom with advanced stuff like route trees, and pre snap reads...   

or football.

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL! I didn't expect him to know anything about defense, but he claims offense wins championships, so..............................................

Maybe he thinks tree routes is what gets into your septic system if you have big trees growing  too close to it. I know I had to have one cleaned out and the tree removed once.

ME TOO!

[mjp28]

24 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

or football.

  Oh god it's almost too easy playing let's pile on the ghool, I almost feel sorry for him......

.......until he starts lambasting everyone on how %÷£€÷×+ stupid we all are about football or life or anything. 

Oh well I think we all need to lighten up and play nice. 

[Tour2ma]

Is a tree route anything like an option route?

18 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

1. Josh McCown could have equal his 2017 win output.
2. Do you not think we'd have won more games with him as the starter?

#2 first... Depends... Does "we'd" stand for "we could" or "we would". If "could", then yes... anything is possible. If "would", then no.

#1 now... Do you think we'd have won have won 5 games with McC here last year? That is how many he won as a Jet in 2017. How many did McC win for us in 2016? In 2015?

And even had McC stayed with us, we'd still have drafted Kizer.

 

[Tour2ma]

6 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Oh well I think we all need to lighten up and play nice. 

That is actually the best way to handle an attention seeker. It's why he is on ignore permanently.

[Westside Steve]

59 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Is a tree route anything like an option route?

#2 first... Depends... Does "we'd" stand for "we could" or "we would". If "could", then yes... anything is possible. If "would", then no.

 so you don't think the inexperience of Kizerr had anything to do with any of our losses? Seems like the excuse after game after game after game was well he's only blah blah blah

#1 now... Do you think we'd have won have won 5 games with McC here last year? That is how many he won as a Jet in 2017. How many did McC win for us in 2016? In 2015?

is that number more or less than Kizer? RG3 won more games than Kizer. Johnny won more games than Kizer.

And even had McC stayed with us, we'd still have drafted Kizer.

 and he would still suck. I would venture to say we'd have been better off with McCown and Hogan as the backup.

WSS

 

 

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Is a tree route anything like an option route?

#2 first... Depends... Does "we'd" stand for "we could" or "we would". If "could", then yes... anything is possible. If "would", then no.

 1. so you don't think the inexperience of Kizerr had anything to do with any of our losses? Seems like the excuse after game after game after game was well he's only blah blah blah

#1 now... Do you think we'd have won have won 5 games with McC here last year? That is how many he won as a Jet in 2017. How many did McC win for us in 2016? In 2015?

2. is that number more or less than Kizer? RG3 won more games than Kizer. Johnny won more games than Kizer.

And even had McC stayed with us, we'd still have drafted Kizer.

3. and he would still suck. I would venture to say we'd have been better off with McCown and Hogan as the backup.

You need to chill, Steve. You are making no sense.

1. Whether or not I attributed a given loss to Kizer is not the same question as to whether McC would have "won more".
2. Again.. a changed question from your original apparently to avoid answering mine.
3. Not the point. The point is that McC on the roster would most likely not have impacted our draft, which is something you implied.

[Dick Mellon]

On 1/19/2018 at 7:56 PM, cdl15 said:

I'm completely down for giving the kid another year.

He's a gamer!  I love the guy.

[Bob806]

On 1/23/2018 at 2:24 AM, Ghoolie said:

Larry,

Brady IS washed up. That Jcksonville chose to go in the tank and give im all day to pass is not an indictment on his state-of-the-union. I never said the guy was not accurate. However, when he is pressured, he sucks worse than Kizer. Atlanta completely changed their treatment of him in last year's SB, and Jacksonville did the same fukcing thing.

 

NFL head coaches are crippled by statistics and probabilities and blah blah blah. Look man, when you have Brady 3d and 18 and you rush 4? You have to be out of your fukcking mind. THe 76 Steelers or the Bill Cowher era Steelers would BURY this Patriots team. What Brady did to Jacksonville was the same thing Elway did in the Drive game. Marty was a coward on defense, and Bernie was a coward on offense.

The NFL has become a touch football league and head coaches are now, as a group, save for Bill Belichik afraid to go for the juggular. The first half, Brady couldn't do schidt. It took a faggot ref throwing a penalty for the legal hit on Gronk, and another pass interference call on a non-catchable Brady pass 5 yards out of bounds and 10 yards too long, to get the Pats back in the game. 

THEN...........Belichik puts 8 in the box, salivates on the run and screen pass............. and Jacksonville obliges him

Dude, you are so pre-programmed by what talking heads tell you that you don't even know what the fukck you are watching. How the hell can a defense not cover a big fatasss liek Gronk running the same patterns play after play? Seriously dude, the guy isn't Lynn Swann. Jacksonville played like Marty/Kosar........... they were cowards.

Yeah, give Brady all day and the benefit of refs who will help him on his bad passes, and he is stellar.

Blitz him and rough him up fo FOUR quarters, and he won't do schidt.

All this bullschidt about his 4th quarter comebacks. He doens't make 4th QTR comebacks because he is great. He makes them because opposing coaches are too fearful of closing out a game, of playing to win, of going after the QB.

I will give Greg Williams that much......he goes after QBs. His secondary plays back in Ethiopia, but he does go after the QB.

Jacksonville lost, Brady didn't do schidt that Deshone Kizer wouldn't have done.

I agree except on the Kosar take.

No QB can survive a constant pass rush. Buddy Ryan and the '85 bears are example A...they absolutely destroyed everybody except for the Monday night game vs Miami.

Jacksonville may end up going backwards after a loss like that, they were really stupid.Best pass rush in the NFL all season, and they laid down.

[mjp28]

14 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

That is actually the best way to handle an attention seeker. It's why he is on ignore permanently.

I know but sometimes it's like a car wreck or sewer backup you say you will not look (or smell) but strangely most people still do.....OK I'm weak.

[Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

I agree except on the Kosar take.

No QB can survive a constant pass rush. Buddy Ryan and the '85 bears are example A...they absolutely destroyed everybody except for the Monday night game vs Miami.

Jacksonville may end up going backwards after a loss like that, they were really stupid.Best pass rush in the NFL all season, and they laid down.

These head coaches all do this shidt. They go into pass prevent the moment they get a lead. Even on offense, they choked. They had the Pats D by the balls, forcing them to stack the box. Son instead of using play action and taking a bunch of shots downfield? THey try to run, lose yards on fisrt down, play passive on second down and have 3d and long.

Since the Atlanta SB melt down, this has been going on. Teams routinely expose Brady for not having quick release skills any more, but yet, at the end, they give him all day to pass and let him shoot fish in a barrel. 

Kosar was a coward when he had a lead. A total coward. Fo watch "The Drive" game. Kosar got the ball first in overtime. The footage shows the Bronco's players jumping up and down on the sidelines saying, "he's playing not to lose".

You know, in general, the world has become a place where people can no longer think for themselves. Unless someone tells them what they are supposed to think, they are clueless. That is why Belichik keeps winning SBs. He doesn't look at statistics and probabilities. He sees a stacked box, he goes downfield. THe announcers say, "he's gonna take this SB safely into OT", and they guy runs down the field and wins it.

aaaafukck Tom Brady. 

[Westside Steve]

13 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

You need to chill, Steve. You are making no sense.

1. Whether or not I attributed a given loss to Kizer is not the same question as to whether McC would have "won more".
2. Again.. a changed question from your original apparently to avoid answering mine.
3. Not the point. The point is that McC on the roster would most likely not have impacted our draft, which is something you implied.

Chill? I know you are still grieving over the loss of Sashi Brown but at least be reasonable. With an experienced and healthy veteran with another year under the offensive system I think it's a good bet we would have won at least a couple more games, to avoid the stench of 0 and 16 . That would have affected our draft in that it might drop us down to the second or third but still in position to pick one of the top quarterbacks. All without changing the Houston pick. Another effect on the draft had we not selected your buddy in the second round we'd have probably picked another position player that most likely would have contributed. Maybe another receiver or another defensive back.

And this year we could pick a quarterback for McCown to mentor.

WSS

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, finger Mellon said:

He's a gamer!  I love the guy.

Of course Steeler fans love Kizer. He's a terrible QB. As bad as Bubby Brister.

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Chill? I know you are still grieving over the loss of Sashi Brown but at least be reasonable. With an experienced and healthy veteran with another year under the offensive system I think it's a good bet we would have won at least a couple more games, to avoid the stench of 0 and 16 . That would have affected our draft in that it might drop us down to the second or third but still in position to pick one of the top quarterbacks. All without changing the Houston pick. Another effect on the draft had we not selected your buddy in the second round we'd have probably picked another position player that most likely would have contributed. Maybe another receiver or another defensive back.

And this year we could pick a quarterback for McCown to mentor.

• Definitely still feeling the Sashi firing here, but it doesn't impact my ability to stay on point.
• "good bet" does not equal "would".
• "my Buddy", if I had one in the 2017 Draft, was official Darkhorse: Chad Kelly. I ended up not having a favorite among the top four QBs going into the Draft. I did think we were smart to not spend a 1st on a QB last season and was OK with the 2nd spent on Kizer.
• conflating the retention of McC with a different use of the 2nd we sent on Kizer was nonsensical the first time your did it and is doubly so now.

[SD_Tom]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Of course Steeler fans love Kizer. He's a terrible QB. As bad as Bubby Brister.

Better or worse than Mark Malone? 

[Westside Steve]

25 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

• Definitely still feeling the Sashi firing here, but it doesn't impact my ability to stay on point.
• "good bet" does not equal "would".
•  a good bet is all you have to work with. They didn't take my advice and we see how it worked out. That's the bottom line.
• "my Buddy", if I had one in the 2017 Draft, was official Darkhorse: Chad Kelly. I ended up not having a favorite among the top four QBs going into the Draft. I did think we were smart to not spend a 1st on a QB last season and was OK with the 2nd spent on Kizer.
•  I didn't want Kizer. I wanted to keep McCown and have Hogan back him up and if we are going to pick a gamble quarterback mine would have been Davis Webb. Neither web nor Kelly are burning up the league.
• conflating the retention of McC with a different use of the 2nd we sent on Kizer was nonsensical the first time your did it and is doubly so now.
•  nonsensical? It would have been better than what we did. And that's what I would have done. Pretty simple. You can get as upset as you want and tell me there are no guarantees but there are never any guarantees and now that the has been played we know I would have been right. At the very least absolutely no worse than what we have except now we are saddled with Kizer.
•  

WSS

[hoorta]

 

7 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Better or worse than Mark Malone? 

RE: Steeler QBs, I suppose that's splitting hairs- I forgot (Alzheimer's onset)  to throw the closest comparison to Deshone into the mix- Kordell Stewart.....