Camp Barkley #1 Overall

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, D Bone said:

I bet Jags fans are happy their team didn't listen to the "Don't take a RB high in the 1st round, cause it's just a waste of a pick because you can find a good RB any time you want" stuff. 

Fournette averaged 3.9 yards a rush.

Crowell, his cane with a red tip and guide dog averaged better than that.

[tiamat63]

20 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

I'm not saying I'm for or against Barkley. But on its face you have to come to terms like I have that taking a running back top 5 has objectively been successful two years in a row. Fournette is an incredible difference maker in this game and we know what zeke has been doing.

Cam Newton and Andrew Luck went 1st round back to back.    So because that had been 'objectively successful' we should have taken Geno Smith 1st round in 13', huh?

[RoyceRolls]

1 hour ago, D Bone said:

I bet Jags fans are happy their team didn't listen to the "Don't take a RB high in the 1st round, cause it's just a waste of a pick because you can find a good RB any time you want" stuff. 

I think the Jags would be just fine had they taken Kamara or Hunt in the third.

[D Bone]

12 minutes ago, RoyceRolls said:

I think the Jags would be just fine had they taken Kamara or Hunt in the third.

Maybe even Dion Lewis......... Too bad we can't ever find a player like that - oh, wait. 

[jrb12711]

26 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Cam Newton and Andrew Luck went 1st round back to back.    So because that had been 'objectively successful' we should have taken Geno Smith 1st round in 13', huh?

Because that's exactly what I said! 

Calm down dude, we get it you don't like him. It's simply worth noting that the old adage of not taking a running back high has been proven wrong two years in a row now. QB always goes high so you know that's not the same thing.

[tiamat63]

Just now, jrb12711 said:

Because that's exactly what I said! 

Calm down dude, we get it you don't like him. It's simply worth noting that the old adage of not taking a running back high has been proven wrong two years in a row now. QB always goes high so you know that's not the same thing.

 

That's exactly what you were implying though, no?    What other way was there to interpret?  Also, it's a message board.  I'm plenty calm.  

[jrb12711]

10 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

That's exactly what you were implying though, no?    What other way was there to interpret?  Also, it's a message board.  I'm plenty calm.  

I said what I was implying and the two ideas are fundamentally different. You know that.

[wargograw]

On 1/20/2018 at 4:42 PM, PoeticG said:

You can't just take out the chunk plays war. That is not how it works. That is like saying, "Let's evaluate Kizer and his potential but let's take out his interceptions" It's all a piece to the puzzle. You can gameplan and focus on one player but still make an impact. Pass blocking, route running, drawing a defense, the factors are too numerous to list. You have to look at the whole picture bro. Take Barkley #1 and you've got an impact player that is going to challenge the defense immediately. He going to make the OL better, the QB better, the WRs better, you can't replace that with 4 okay runningbacks. 

 

I'm answering you're "questions" by telling you to watch the games for yourself. Watch the way the player moves, how he reacts, his knowledge of the game, reading defenses, effecting defenses even without getting touches... and doing this without complaining about touches or carries or stats.

My question to you is this- Did his team win those games? What do last years stats and the year before tell you when looked at as a "body of work"? 

 

Big plays aren't there nearly as frequently in the NFL. What's going to earn you a job is being able to pick up yards on a DOWN TO DOWN basis. Not getting stuffed 24 times for 36 yards, then breaking a 45 yard run. That helps no one. It's absolutely a legitimate exercise to remove the long run. I looked up Trent Richardson's college stats last night too. Take out his long runs and his YPC is still relatively the same. Why? He didn't have to rely on that. He could move the chains every time he touched the ball.

 

I have watched his games. I'm the CFB guru around here. This kid is outstanding, best-in-a-decade RECEIVING back. Occasionally, he makes an amazing run. He's nowhere near good enough on a down-to-down basis to justify picking him #4 for a team that just went winless.

 

As for whether his team won those games. A couple of them they didn't, and I'm betting a better and more consistent rushing attack would have helped tremendously.

4 hours ago, D Bone said:

I bet Jags fans are happy their team didn't listen to the "Don't take a RB high in the 1st round, cause it's just a waste of a pick because you can find a good RB any time you want" stuff. 

I bet , on the whole, they're more glad they signed

AJ Bouye
Calais Campbell
Dante Fowler (back from injury)
Barry church
Dede Westbrook

Cameron Robinson
Healthy Myles Jack
Marcell Darius
Malik Jackson
Jaelon Strong

 

But yeah, Fournette's the difference between 3-13 and the AFC championship game.....

[D Bone]

35 minutes ago, wargograw said:

But yeah, Fournette's the difference between 3-13 and the AFC championship game.....

Never said he was....... typical post from you. 

Simply said that the Jags weren't scared off and took a good RB high like the Cowboys did and I bet their fans are happy...... Nice try on changing the narrative though, you're a solid pro at that. 

[PoeticG]

Who is going to be the best player on the team if we draft Saquon? 

Josh Gordon  vs  Saquon Barkley

 

[wargograw]

2 hours ago, D Bone said:

Never said he was....... typical post from you. 

Simply said that the Jags weren't scared off and took a good RB high like the Cowboys did and I bet their fans are happy...... Nice try on changing the narrative though, you're a solid pro at that. 

So they're happy about something that could and likely does have very little to do with their success. 

[wargograw]

33 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Who is going to be the best player on the team if we draft Saquon? 

Josh Gordon  vs  Saquon Barkley

 

Our discussion's over already? 

 

How does a 65 yard TD run once a game help you when the rest of time you can't muster up a yard and a half?

[PoeticG]

 

10 minutes ago, wargograw said:

Our discussion's over already? 

 

How does a 65 yard TD run once a game help you when the rest of time you can't muster up a yard and a half?

I don't know what stat you are talking about here. 

You're saying that if you take out the big plays he makes, then he's just as good as a player like Crowell? What about when he makes guys miss on 3rd down to move the chains? Or the receiving yards? Or the kickoff returns? Do you get extra points for 3rd downs or picking up blocks? What are the rules in this game you want to play? Which stat are you ultimately judging this player by? Are all runningbacks that you judge scrutinized by the same measure? What are a player like Adrian Peterson's numbers like in comparison to Barkley's numbers, with and then without whatever stat or numbers your using to rank these guys? 

What I do is much simpler- I use my eyes and intuition to "see" what I can see. You can play or you can't play. I see Barkley as a special talent. If I was a captain and I'm picking teams, with my first pick I'm pointing at Barkley- I'm going to win if I get this guy. Have you ever went to a basketball park at night and played pick up games under the lights? You learn things. A stat is just an attempt to systematically describe what transpired. But we all know that games aren't played by the numbers, the numbers come after the act.   

If we draft Barkley- who is the best playmaker on the team. Who are you giving the ball to on the first play? Who are you giving the ball to on the last play to win the game? 

[PoeticG]

What is Barkley's "Missed tackle number"? - Or how many player has he made miss? 

[PoeticG]

http://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-football/article192828629.html

 

I couldn't copy the article but here's a link. It's pretty incredible to see for yourself the litany of quotes from players, coaches and media about Saquon. 

Guys like Urban Meyer saying carefully that Barkley is the most talented all purpose running back in the last 30 years!  

 

[PoeticG]

Ah, my favorite quote of them all-

Marcus Allen- "Saquon's a dog. That is simply what it is. Saquon's a dog, and dogs do dog things."

 

We need him here, he's a leader that the pack can follow. He'll do anything for his team. If he gets the rest of the guys to play with his intensity, he'd be worth the 1st and 4th pick because imaging Coleman and Gordon raising their intensity. Imagine Barkley behind an NFL offensive line- If his line was better he could have had even more yards. Often on a 5 yard carry, he'll have already made 4 or 5 guys miss. 

[PoeticG]

Ah, sheet, this is probably really crazy and funny! I will check it out soon, but here it is now... What is going on?!

 

The Story of Saquon Barkley, Told Through 26 Defenders Who Failed to Tackle Him

Penn State’s star playmaker doesn’t just beat opponents. He busts out moves that other running backs wouldn’t even dream of attempting.

By Rodger Sherman Sep 29, 2017, 12:25pm EDT

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Getty Images/Ringer illustration

Saquon Barkley is the nation’s best football player at humiliating opponents.

We can focus on his statistics—he leads the FBS with 1,013 all-purpose yards—or his Heisman Trophy hype—Vegas gives him the best odds of anyone to win the 2017 award right now. But no numbers or accolades can summarize Barkley. Much like the Road Runner with Wile E. Coyote, he does more than simply outrun those trying to catch him. Barkley’s entertainment value comes from his ability to lure defenders off cliffs, turn their malfunctioning Acme products against them, and convince them to sprint into landscapes that turn out to be elaborately detailed frescoes.

To fully appreciate what makes Penn State’s junior running back so special, it’s necessary to understand what it’s like to try to tackle him. For that, let’s go to 26 defenders who thought they could bring down no. 26.

1. Joshua Jackson, Cornerback, Iowa

2. Amani Hooker, Safety, Iowa

There’s a split-second when a defender attempting to tackle Barkley thinks he has everything figured out, like a toddler manning a claw machine and hovering over a toy he wants. In this play from the third quarter of Penn State’s 21-19 win over Iowa last Saturday, Jackson sprints up to meet Barkley and sees the Nittany Lions standout charging directly at him. A-ha, Jackson might have thought. My sheer speed has closed down the nation’s best running back.

But as Jackson extends his arm wide and winds his body into a springlike coil, Barkley leaps. The Hawkeyes’ 6-foot-1, 185-pound cornerback bursts forward into nothingness. Jackson floats, powerless, braced for contact with a player who has passed him by.

Still, that’s not even the most remarkable part of this play. As Barkley vaults over Jackson, Hooker hits Barkley with everything he’s got, right in the thigh. At this point, it should be easy to take Barkley down—just a simple boop in the lower body, and Barkley should be unable to regain his balance.

Only Barkley brushes off Hooker’s hit like it’s nothing, gyroscoping his legs back to the ground before steaming past the first-down marker. I knew cats were capable of regaining their balance in mere milliseconds as they fell; I guess Nittany Lions can do that, too.

3. Christian Heyward, Defensive Tackle, San Diego State

4. J.J. Whittaker, Safety, San Diego State

5. Damontae Kazee, Cornerback, San Diego State

6. Na’im McGee, Safety, San Diego State

The spin move is not Barkley’s favorite, but he used it twice in one half during a 37-21 win over San Diego State his freshman year. First, he shakes off a would-be tackle by Heyward, then uses his momentum to spin past Whittaker, who crumples to his knees in defeat.

In the next quarter, Barkley spins away from a potential hit from Kazee. Now a junior, Barkley seems to think two or three moves ahead. He wasn’t as seasoned in 2015, and this spin move brings him right into McGee’s path. But even as a freshman, Barkley was a physical monster. And he drops McGee effortlessly.

Barkley moved from New York City to small-town Pennsylvania when he was 5. He wasn’t a highly heralded recruit at first, committing to Rutgers. Rutgers! But his stature quickly rose, as he became a four-star recruit and flipped to Penn State, a decision that led to what might be the funniest tweet in college football beat writer history. Barkley torched the Scarlet Knights for 195 yards in just his third college game, becoming a freshman All-American.

7. Joey Bosa, Defensive End, Ohio State

8. Tyvis Powell, Safety, Ohio State

Good news, Saquon: You have the ball! Bad news: You probably shouldn’t. In this 2015 clash with Ohio State, your team would rather not attempt to block Joey Bosa, who would go on to be the no. 3 overall pick in the 2016 NFL draft and win the Defensive Rookie of the Year award. So your coach has called an option in the hopes that your quarterback can eliminate Bosa from the play by making the right read. Unfortunately, he makes the wrong read and hands you the ball with Bosa looming 2 yards away. What are you to do?

There’s a bug called the Tiger Beetle, the second-fastest insect in the world. It runs so fast in comparison with its body size that it essentially goes blind while running; its bug brain is unable to interpret all the information its eyes capture. To see, it has to stop running every few seconds.

This is not a problem for Barkley, who jukes perhaps the best defender in college football and then hops over a 6-foot-3 defender about 1.5 seconds later. I’m glad Bosa managed to embark on a successful NFL career so soon after Barkley broke his ankles.

9. Adekunle Ayinde, Safety, Minnesota

Penn State ran one play against Minnesota in overtime of last season’s matchup.

It takes about 3.5 seconds for Barkley to get past the first 10 Golden Gophers defenders. Ayinde, the last man standing in his path, needs to do something to save the game. Instead, he briefly taps Barkley with his left hand. It was a good try.

This 29-26 victory sparked a nine-game Nittany Lions winning streak that culminated in the program’s first Big Ten title since 2008. Barkley averaged 168.8 rushing yards per game in the next four games, and scored 12 total touchdowns during the streak.

10. Ryan Williamson, Safety, Buffalo

11. V’Angelo Bentley, Cornerback, Illinois

12. Will Likely III, Cornerback, Maryland

Some say that hurdling should be made illegal in college and pro football, as it already is in the high school game. The argument is that the move is too dangerous. If a player miscalculates his jump and clips an opponent’s helmet or shoulder, that player is likely to fall face first toward the ground, risking serious head and neck injuries.

I say football should ban hurdles for everybody but Barkley.

Each of these defenders tries to go low on Barkley. Each fails, done in by Barkley’s ability to rise up 5 feet in less than a second.

Barkley can reportedly run a sub-4.4-second 40-yard dash, which isn’t unique among running backs. What is unique is his strength. Barkley’s squat videos have become stuff of legend, and he broke a Penn State program power-clean record last year. (That means he power-cleaned more than the linemen, who are much bigger than Barkley is.) Many running backs possess the ability to go fast. Few possess the strength to change direction as quickly as Barkley does. This is why defenders keep tackling the air to the left of Barkley, to the right of Barkley, and most notably, below Barkley.

13. Uchenna Nwosu, Linebacker, USC

14. Marvell Tell III, Safety, USC

15. Ajene Harris, Cornerback, USC

16. Chris Hawkins, Safety, USC

17. Porter Gustin, Linebacker, USC

18-24: Assorted Other Hopeless USC Defenders

The highlight of Barkley’s career to this point came in January’s Rose Bowl against USC, on a touchdown that brought Barkley from the left hash mark at Penn State’s 21-yard line to the left corner of the end zone. The scorebook says this was a 79-yard touchdown run, but watch the clip: He ran about 150 yards and left roughly half of USC’s roster on its knees.

Penn State wasn’t expected to be in the Rose Bowl last season. But thanks to Barkley and TB Trace McSorley—I’ve decided that McSorley’s position is “ThrowBro” instead of quarterback, please use the TB abbreviation from here on out—the Nittany Lions made it happen. And now, with both players thriving in 2017, they have their sights on the College Football Playoff.

25. Manny Rugamba, Cornerback, Iowa

26. Josey Jewell, Linebacker, Iowa

Sometimes we think about football too much like it’s a video game, with one player in charge of the controls, figuring out how best to deal with 21 automatons. We forget to assign intelligence to any player other than the quarterback, when in fact every play represents a symphony of decision-making. Every football position requires reaction and awareness, a mental aspect that some players have and others don’t.

This is especially apparent with running backs. The best ones are often described as having great “vision,” a term that refers to a player’s reactive ability to detect openings amid a frenzied, fluctuating mass of bodies. Interpreting a wealth of information instantaneously and diagnosing the correct course of action is an immensely difficult mental skill; calling it “vision” makes it sound like a physical trait.

Yes, Barkley’s freakish strength and agility and balance make him an excellent running back. He’d pick up first downs even if he just used his speed to beeline for the sideline or his power to bowl over defenders. But what sets him apart is his ability to outfox opponents. He doesn’t merely try to beat defenders down the field; he lures them into going someplace that he won’t be. It’s not merely reactive. It’s body chess. Barkley is the only person who can pull off the moves he makes, and few other running backs could even think of doing what he does.

On this play against Iowa, Barkley heads toward the sideline, which hypothetically should make things simpler for the Hawkeyes defenders. They don’t have to drag Barkley down; they just have to get one of his feet to land out of bounds. And Iowa is well positioned to stop him: Rugamba and Jewell have bracketed the running back, with the former trailing and the latter coming from the side. Barkley, for all intents and purposes, is trapped.

Barkley realizes there is one small window of time and space he can access to keep his run alive. He needs to outrun Rugamba and stop on a dime to avoid Jewell. So that’s what he does, delivering a highlight that looks like a choreographed fight scene in a kung fu movie. Rugamba flails at Barkley’s cleats; Jewell goes flying out of bounds; and Barkley, who coordinated it all in a matter of seconds, instantly regains his momentum as if none of this ever happened. And it wasn’t the last time in this game that Barkley would dance past Jewell.

For most running backs, attempting to engage Jewell in this scenario would be a dumb play. The Iowa linebacker was a preseason first-team All-American. Barkley’s decision risked a potential loss of yardage as the clock ticked toward zero.

But Barkley is not most running backs. He assessed the situation and realized that he could get a first down and get out of bounds, even with one of the best defenders in the nation squared up a few yards away. If Barkley hadn’t done this, Penn State might have lost.

All these defenders thought they could tackle Saquon Barkley. But Saquon Barkley knew that they couldn’t. Watching him reveal how they’ll fail is my favorite thing in college football.

https://www.theringer.com/2017/9/29/16384752/saquon-barkley-penn-state-nittany-lions-highlights

---------------------------------------

There's a link to the website but all this talking about stats doesn't measure up to eyewitness testimony big dawg. I still love ya though man, still love all you guys. Just saying, this is the guy that is going to save the day... And convince you he's worth being the first #1 Overall Draft Pick in a long, long time. 

[TexasAg1969]

Barkley's strength is his speed. NFL speed trumps RB speed. Highlights mean nothing. I can look like a world class racquetball player @ 70 if I give you just one week of highlights playing 2 hours a day. I mean I hit a ball the other day that was going so fast to my left as I was still going right that the only shot was a behind the back flail that caught it just right for a slide down the side wall before rolling off the front. You'd draft me for sure if you owned a racquetball team. LOL!

EDIT: Better yet I could make the Crow look like he had vision if I cut & paste the few plays where he accidentally went the correct way without running up the OL butts.

[stillmotion]

I'd take barkley and minkah if we got cousins.

[hoorta]

13 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Who is going to be the best player on the team if we draft Saquon? 

Josh Gordon  vs  Saquon Barkley

 

VS Kevin Hogan...   

[Tour2ma]

Just what we needed to convince us about Barkley.... longer posts by PoG...

21 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Fournette averaged 3.9 yards a rush.

More telling to my mind that on a team that features D and the running game, Fournette was 8th in the league in rushing.

17 hours ago, D Bone said:

Never said he was....... typical post from you.

Statements can be implied. You implied Fournette's value.

[PoeticG]

This was a good read from that earlier link. Pretty humorous about the beetle and Bosa! That tickled~ 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.theringer.com/2017/9/29/16384752/saquon-barkley-penn-state-nittany-lions-highlights

"..."-Good news, Saquon: You have the ball! Bad news: You probably shouldn’t. In this 2015 clash with Ohio State, your team would rather not attempt to block Joey Bosa, who would go on to be the no. 3 overall pick in the 2016 NFL draft and win the Defensive Rookie of the Year award. So your coach has called an option in the hopes that your quarterback can eliminate Bosa from the play by making the right read. Unfortunately, he makes the wrong read and hands you the ball with Bosa looming 2 yards away. What are you to do?

There’s a bug called the Tiger Beetle, the second-fastest insect in the world. It runs so fast in comparison with its body size that it essentially goes blind while running; its bug brain is unable to interpret all the information its eyes capture. To see, it has to stop running every few seconds.

This is not a problem for Barkley, who jukes perhaps the best defender in college football and then hops over a 6-foot-3 defender about 1.5 seconds later. I’m glad Bosa managed to embark on a successful NFL career so soon after Barkley broke his ankles.

"..."

-------------------

That was some good stuff.

 

Hey, Kevin Hogan is a boss, I'm still riding with him. 

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

I can't be the only person who gets this image in their head after reading a PoG post, right?

[Mark O]

3 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Hey, Kevin Hogan is a boss, I'm still riding with him.

He's the boss of the taxi company and you're riding in his car? 

[The Gipper]

The only time I want to be any attention whatsoever to see Kwon Berkeley is if and when we draft him

[Gunz41]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

The only time I want to be any attention whatsoever to see Kwon Berkeley is if and when we draft him

O come on now, everyone will have to stand at attention to him. He is going to be Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, and Marshall Faulk all rolled into one. But 10 times better. And if the Browns do draft him, he will make either Hogan or Mayfield into Brady, Rodgers, and Wentz all into one. And Josh Gordon, well he will be Rice, Moss, Fitzgerald, and Calvin Johnson. With Barkley, the Browns dont need anybody but those 3 players, he will make his own holes, make all 53 players miss, and then go outrun Bolt. 15 Super Bowls in a row.

And even though I am obviously joking, and only 1 person believes anywhere close to that, IF he becomes a Brown, I hope it happens 

[wargograw]

On 1/21/2018 at 11:20 PM, PoeticG said:

 

I don't know what stat you are talking about here. 

You're saying that if you take out the big plays he makes, then he's just as good as a player like Crowell? What about when he makes guys miss on 3rd down to move the chains? Or the receiving yards? Or the kickoff returns? Do you get extra points for 3rd downs or picking up blocks? What are the rules in this game you want to play? Which stat are you ultimately judging this player by? Are all runningbacks that you judge scrutinized by the same measure? What are a player like Adrian Peterson's numbers like in comparison to Barkley's numbers, with and then without whatever stat or numbers your using to rank these guys? 

What I do is much simpler- I use my eyes and intuition to "see" what I can see. You can play or you can't play. I see Barkley as a special talent. If I was a captain and I'm picking teams, with my first pick I'm pointing at Barkley- I'm going to win if I get this guy. Have you ever went to a basketball park at night and played pick up games under the lights? You learn things. A stat is just an attempt to systematically describe what transpired. But we all know that games aren't played by the numbers, the numbers come after the act.   

If we draft Barkley- who is the best playmaker on the team. Who are you giving the ball to on the first play? Who are you giving the ball to on the last play to win the game? 

No, he's worse than Crowell. Crowell could ball up SEC defenses on a consistent basis without relying on 85 yard runs for a respectable YPC (a YPC that was still 80th or whatever it was in the country for Barkley, mind you).

If Barkley is what you say he is as a RB, he won't be returning kicks, so yeah, we can throw that out. 

We're judging him by his rushing stats. An honest, objective look at how they're going to translate to the NFL. IF you want to just concede that and say "well he's not the best pure running back BUT he is adequate there and can do so many other things, and therefore he's worthy of #1," then fine. We'd just then be arguing about whether a guy with THOSE skills is worthy of #1. At present, however, I'm arguing that he is not a particularly good pure runningback. That's the issue. That's what I'm discussing. I'd like you to focus on that and the fact that you seem to not want to indicates to me you don't have a good response.

And by the way I'm not dismissing the value of intensity or clutchness or any of the other intangibles you bring up. Those should, however, be reflected in his stats as a RB, and they simply are not. That's a problem.

[TexasAg1969]

Agree with war on this one.  ^^^^

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Agree with war on this one.  ^^^^

Yea, pretty much.

[PoeticG]

 

Unreal, this kid. He's the closest thing to a Superman we're going to find. If anybody need one, it's Cleveland. Just watch the video and tell me that Coleman wouldn't thrive with this guy around. Coleman would go to a whole 'nother level. Saquon is a leader and I have to think that, as young as our team is, our guys will gravitate to him.

What would a Barkley/Mayfield locker room, with Gordon and everybody look like?... I mean, stats are just stats. Everybody is good, it's about when it's time to execute, who come in clutch. Games are so tough and closely matched, in most cases, it comes down to the team and who wants it more, who BELIEVES they are going to win. We have to get away from the Mercenary type of team that we've been. Players coming and leaving all the time, coaches coming and leaving, so on and so on. We have believe in each other. We need to grind this out and learn from it, let it burn so we can win next timer. What hurt is it to a player when loyalty is gone, but the pain is real for fans- when Kenny Britt is going to the Superbow. For guys like Joe Thomas, Josh Gordon and Joe Ha...damn. But for players like Kevin Hogan, Christian Kirksey it's gotta burn... this thing we're trying to build, it's built in the trenches- during the grind. But we will rise from this, to heights not yet seen, to heights not yet dreamed. The best is ahead of us. Belief, trust and love.