PoeticG Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 You can't just take out the chunk plays war. That is not how it works. That is like saying, "Let's evaluate Kizer and his potential but let's take out his interceptions" It's all a piece to the puzzle. You can gameplan and focus on one player but still make an impact. Pass blocking, route running, drawing a defense, the factors are too numerous to list. You have to look at the whole picture bro. Take Barkley #1 and you've got an impact player that is going to challenge the defense immediately. He going to make the OL better, the QB better, the WRs better, you can't replace that with 4 okay runningbacks. I'm answering you're "questions" by telling you to watch the games for yourself. Watch the way the player moves, how he reacts, his knowledge of the game, reading defenses, effecting defenses even without getting touches... and doing this without complaining about touches or carries or stats. My question to you is this- Did his team win those games? What do last years stats and the year before tell you when looked at as a "body of work"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Hey Dawgpound, what about this- Saquon Barkley #1 and Baker Mayfield #4? That could be electric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 A good first take on Mayfield. ...and I'm only bringing this up because I know a lot of you guys think you need to burn the #1 on a QB. You can EASILY take Barkley 1st without give NY/Colts a chance at him, then turn around and take the QB not named Frozen Rosen or Ronald Darnold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Maybe you don't like Mayfield #4, there are a bunch of QBs that are going to be there. There are QBs in FA, literally there's damn near QBs falling out of the cupboards... If we take Barkley #1 that takes the option away from NY and Colts from either taking him or trading to another team that wants to move up to get him, jumping us at 4. Them getting a ton for the deal and still having a chance at the QB they wanted. Maybe they want Mayfield and they can trade to teams 5-9 for them to come up and get Barkley before us and they still end up getting Mayfield plus picks. Get your boy Saquon, get the RB and then force NY to burn their pick. See if they'll take Mayfield #2. If they do then you are sure to get either Darnold or Rosen at 4. But that doesn't work the other way around. If you don't take Barkley #1 we're not getting him. You can't just say pass on a talent like that when you are on the clock and you didn't win A GAME last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 SAQUON BARKLEY LASER TIMED IN THE 40 YARD DASH 4.33... BURNERS!!! SAQUON - SAY WHAT - SAY SUPERBOWL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louisville Slugger Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Leveon Bell, Kareem hunt, Melvin Gordon, etc rand their 40s in the 4.5-4.6 range. Speed isn't an indicator for success at the running back position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Player Yr School Pos Proj Day Baker Mayfield rSr Oklahoma QB 1 Chase Litton Jr Marshall QB 2 Josh Allen rJr Wyoming QB 1 Kurt Benkert rSr Virginia QB 3 Lamar Jackson Jr Louisville QB 2 Luke Falk rSr Washington State QB 2 Mason Rudolph Sr Oklahoma State QB 1 Matt Linehan rSr Idaho QB 3 Riley Ferguson Sr Memphis QB 3 Sam Darnold rSo Southern California QB 1 Say what? Say the Browns take Barkley #1 Overall... Say the Giants take Frozen Rosen. So when the Colts are up, here are all the QBs still on the board. Is your guy at QB still here? Are the Colts going to take one of these guys and sit him behind Luck, #3 Overall? I didn't think so either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Do you see where I'm going with this? Don't be so blinded by our "need" at QB to where we go and shoot ourselves in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, PoeticG said: Hey Dawgpound, what about this- Saquon Barkley #1 and Baker Mayfield #4? That could be electric. How about Mayfield #1, Barkley #4? Love what I've seen out of Baker so far... I've said it a bunch of times PO- the odds of Barkley being there @ #4 are way better than our "pick of the litter" qb. War's stats are pretty damning in my book. Nothing, nothing, big chunk play to pad your stats. I'm not going to bother, but I'm sure his YAC stat is out there somewhere.... We might take a shot at Saquon, but I damn guarantee you it won't be #1 overall. We've pointed out it hasn't happened in over 20 years, and the last guy who got the honor- KiJana Carter, promptly blew out his knee and was an injury bust. Hmmm another Penn State RB. Golly, Courtney Brown came out of PS. Bad karma I tell you. Just got a case of the heebie jeebies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 24 minutes ago, PoeticG said: Do you see where I'm so blind by our "need" at QB... go and shoot ourselves in the foot. Yes, now let's get to practicing shooting that foot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 21 hours ago, PoeticG said: Please tell me your are trolling and really aren't dumb enough to NOT get the point... Here, let me break it down for you. Mo-men-tum. This is a term you'll often hear when a team begins to build some. A big run causes the crowd to get hyped. Crowd noise and energy is a HUGE x-factor during games. If you can break off several of these runs the defense gets on it's toes to quite the stands. Then your able to take the top off of the defense and it gets the defense on it's heels... then you run again and the crowd and momentum continue to grow. However, when your RB runs into the asses of his OL and then falls on the ground. Can't make a defender miss or drops a shuffle pass for a fumble and a turnover in the redzone... oh, same old Browns, the crowds cheers turn to jeers and the other team smells blood. They drive down the field and score, silencing the crowd, taking the momentum and they run away with the game... the crowd leaves early, the other teams offense can call checks, protections and audibles without any difficulty- this leads to an unsurmountable lead and another loss. But, if that play is shuffled, Barkley makes a guy miss and he goes all Airmail Special Delivery for six- The crowd goes crazy and the our Defense begins to sense victory. ...good on the crowd noise part? I'll give you some time to think about it before moving on. I know all about momentum. But you seem to think that it only is a benefit to your guy. I'll bet when any back does the same thing it happens. Doesn't make him the right choice. But sure, the crowd cheers when he breaks a long run. That doesn't happen for Penny from San Diego State, Love from Stanford, Taylor from Wisconsin, etc. Or do you want to use his stats to validate It? So I am assuming you will use certain games to prove he is legit, while someone against him would use a game like Ohio State. So please, with some real insight, not just some hypothesis you think, explain why he is the best pick? I dont even dislike the guy or picking him, bit your reason are just ridiculous and guesses so far, along with unreal expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Make-Believe Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, PoeticG said: Do you see where I'm going with this? Don't be so blinded by our "need" at QB to where we go and shoot ourselves in the foot. Did you really put "need" in quotations in reference to the QB? Good lord, man. This team hasn't had a real quarterback in DECADES. It is absolutely, positively without a f***ing doubt a god damn NEED. It f***ing baffles me how many of our fans want to piss away this opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, Mr. Make-Believe said: Did you really put "need" in quotations in reference to the QB? Good lord, man. This team hasn't had a real quarterback in DECADES. It is absolutely, positively without a f***ing doubt a god damn NEED. It f***ing baffles me how many of our fans want to piss away this opportunity. Are you not listening to me? If we take Barkley at 1- Do you really think that NY is going to pick a QB #2 when they have Eli Manning? If so which one? Then secondly, say they pick Rosen or Donald, Do you think that the Colts will draft the other one? They need to help out their #1 overall QB Andrew Luck. If we take Barkley will they go OT or RB, or do they go defense? Do you think they need to take a QB #3 Overall? So then we're up, there are 5 QBs on the Board. Rosen/Donald, Mayfield, Allen, Jackson, Rudolph. So your telling me that the one you want is not in that group? It happens to be the ONE QB that MAYBE the Giants take? Make no mistake both the Giants and the Colts want Barkley to help their QB. The fact that 31 other teams covet the guy and could make a case to trade up to take him has merit enough for me to take notice. You guys should too. QB Class- Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Jackson, Rudolph RB Class- Barkley then there is a HUGE dropoff to everyone else. If you asked different people, even NFL scouts- Which QB in this Class is the Best you're going to get 5 different answers... Ask the same people who the best RB is and you don't get the same thing. It's really that simple. Putting "NEED" in quotation marks was to show that we are going to use the #1 on NEED instead of taking the best player. I'm sorry if you don't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 NY Giants- Biggest need? QB? - RB - OL - LB Huh, you would think that NY, having the opportunity to take one of the two top QBs in the draft would want to jump all over it right? You need to replace Manning right? Nope, NY fans want them to SKIP QB and take the RB... It's been so long since NY had a great runner... yada yada laa.... If Barkley is on the board NY takes him to give Eli the most talented runner in ages. Giving Eli one last run with ODB and Barkley, because even if it doesn't work out- next years crop of QBs is going to be better than this years.... isn't it always Indianapolis Colts- Biggest need? ...Barkley to help Luck... It's funny- the Raiders and Carr's biggest need? Barkley What else is funny? San Francisco's biggest need? Barkley ...we could go on and on... It's because teams know that you draft the best player available, AND the best player available on EVERY teams draft board should have Barkley as the top player. He lead ALL college RBs in receiving yards last season. Let that sink in, you question his rushes or touches or ypa(being sure to cut out his chunk plays) but you conveniently forget to mention his receiving yards and his kickoffs for touchdowns. Hmm. Shmuck taking a QB #1 that will likely be the biggest bust since Johnny Manziel or Brandon Weeden since we're in Cleveland. Take the sure fire runner to compliment your already HIGH investment in Kizer. You also have a great QB in Hogan and the is also FA. Don't worry there is no way that all five of the BIG NAME QBs (who all show up in different top 5 positions, depending on who you ask) will be drafted before we pick at 4. BUT I WILL PROMISE YOU THAT BARKLEY GOES IN THE TOP 3. IT WOULD TAKE A MIRACLE FOR HIM TO BE THERE AT 4. How cool would it be for Cleveland, home of the run game, to make a statement and say, we're going to run the ball by taking RB #1 overall? We need a Vickers type FB now, unless you guys think Vitale can do it as good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Ok, Browns draft Rosen at 1, trade 4 to buffalo for 21 and 22 and a second rounder. Take Kirk and Guice or some Sheet along those lines... Barkley/mayfield doesn’t come close to competing with Rosen/Guice/Kirk imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 What would it take to trade up from 4 to 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 From the Browns website... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Mock-Draft-Roundup-Mel-Kiper-Jr-other-draft-analysts-make-their-1st-projections-for-Browns/4529d810-34ae-4bb5-bc8e-8db79ec1f694 Look at the common denominator in ALL these mock drafts... Different QBs taken #1, different QBs taken #4, some don't even draft a QB... Look Barkley is there is almost ALL of them, take the RB #1 and take the QB next. Potentially, only 1 QB will be taken from picks 2 and 3. That leaves ALL the other QBs there for the taking. Read it for yourself. Mel Kiper Jr. - ESPN.com 1. QB Josh Allen (Wyoming) 4. RB Saquon Barkley (Penn State) Of note: Allen is drawing a lot of attention because of his ideal measurables (6-5, 222) and his diverse skill set. He’ll have a big opportunity to showcase himself at next week’s Senior Bowl. Matt Miller - Bleacher Report 1. QB Sam Darnold (USC) 4. Barkley Of note: There was, perhaps, no bigger of a big-play threat in college football last year than Barkley, who averaged nearly 6 yards a carry and more than 11 on receptions. He also returned two kicks for touchdowns. Bryan Fischer - Athlon Sports 1. Barkley 4. Josh Rosen (UCLA) Of note: In this scenario, the Browns would be taking the second quarterback in the draft, as Fischer projects the Giants, who hold the No. 2 pick, to take Darnold. Chris Trapasso - CBSSports.com 1. Darnold 4. OT Orlando Brown (Oklahoma) Of note: Brown is the son of the former Browns offensive lineman with the same name. The Browns haven’t used a first-round pick on an offensive tackle since Joe Thomas in 2007. Eric Galko - Sporting News 1. Darnold 4. Barkley Of note: If the projection holds, Darnold would be the fourth USC quarterback selected in the top 10 since 2003. Josh Norris - Rotoworld 1. Darnold 4. Barkley Of note: Norris has just one other running back going in the first round (LSU’s Derrius Guice at No. 20). Walter Cherepinsky - WalterFootball.com 1. Barkley 4. DB Minkah Fitzpatrick (Alabama) Of note: Fitzpatrick, a three-year starter for the Crimson Tide, did a little bit of everything for one of the deepest secondaries in the nation. Kiper considers him to be the third-best overall player in the draft. Luke Easterling - USA Today 1. Rosen 4. Fitzpatrick Of note: Rosen started three seasons at UCLA with his best coming this past year, when he threw for 3,756 yards, 26 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. Steve Palazzolo - Pro Football Focus 1. QB Baker Mayfield (Oklahoma) 4. Fitzpatrick Of note: One of the most polarizing prospects in this year’s draft, Mayfield is coming off a banner college career that saw him lead the Sooners twice to the College Football Playoff and win the 2017 Heisman Trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I thought people playing characters only existed on the political board... I was wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 8 hours ago, MLD Woody said: I thought people playing characters only existed on the political board... I was wrong This has to be some Andy Kaufman Sheet going on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 3:45 AM, PoeticG said: Sorry man, haven't seen you post anything other than Fournette ran for 1 ypc against Alabama and Zeke ran for a bazillion... We're talking about 3 different teams(LSU, Ohio State and Alabama) and two different players(Zeke and Fournette) that have nothing to do with Barkley... what am I missing here? tap your brakes just a little Poe, he's not a pass pro back like Zeke, test is coming https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-silver-football-saquon-barkley-nfl-future-20171207-story.html from june https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/penn-state-football-comparing-saquon-barkley-to-recent-1st-round-rbs-051717 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 10 hours ago, PoeticG said: What would it take to trade up from 4 to 2? A lobotomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: A lobotomy. Two more first round picks to start with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 16 hours ago, PoeticG said: A good first take on Mayfield. ...and I'm only bringing this up because I know a lot of you guys think you need to burn the #1 on a QB. You can EASILY take Barkley 1st without give NY/Colts a chance at him, then turn around and take the QB not named Frozen Rosen or Ronald Darnold. One mock draft had us taking Mayfield 1st and Barkley 4th. You have to ask yourself are the teams drafting 2nd and 3rd all set at QB? And, will they ever have a better chance to nail their version of pick of the litter at QB (especially when/if Mayfield isn't their #1 QB). In honor of silly season kicking off - If we DID pick Mayfield 1st overall - this pushes the Rosen One and Darnold Duck-HerecomesBosaagain to the 2nd and 3rd team. Now Cleveland has their pick of the litter for whatever player/position they want to go after. This scenario means Barkley will be there at #4 if our FO wants him. At this time I hope they don't want him. There's still good RBs after round 1. Dorsey was in the FO that drafted Kareem Hunt in round 3 so he understands this as well as anyone. Meanwhile, Alvin Kamara was also drafted in round 3. The last time we got bullied into a RB was when we held the 4th overall pick and traded up to #3 to draft Trent Richardson. At the time, it sure seemed like a lot of well paid draft analysts told us that was a great pick. I'll fess up, I was right there with you thinking Richardson was an ideal pick. That's why I never bust your balls about the guy. That said, I do hope we can learn from our mistakes and realize the draft rarely ever runs out of very good RBs after round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: This has to be some Andy Kaufman Sheet going on... YES, they added a Boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: This has to be some Andy Kaufman Sheet going on... Andy was boss! A great talent but also a strange individual.....I loved man on the moon, wife doesn't really get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 21 hours ago, PoeticG said: I see Guice and Johnson as very similar players, Guice a better runner but Johnson the better receiver. Calling out dissimilarities demonstrates their similarity? 21 hours ago, PoeticG said: I'm answering you're "questions" by telling you to watch the games for yourself. Watch the way the player moves, how he reacts, his knowledge of the game, reading defenses, effecting defenses even without getting touches... and doing this without complaining about touches or carries or stats. So which game best demonstrates each of the five qualities you list in your learned opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I bet Jags fans are happy their team didn't listen to the "Don't take a RB high in the 1st round, cause it's just a waste of a pick because you can find a good RB any time you want" stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 22 hours ago, PoeticG said: Hey Dawgpound, what about this- Saquon Barkley #1 and Baker Mayfield #4? That could be electric. Yeah, shock what's left of our fanbase to death. But by all means, advocate for players like that. Because "electric" wins you football games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 2:44 PM, PoeticG said: Yo Mods, can we get a pin on this? Or altering the Tivoli delete the entire threadOr altering the Tivoli delete the entire thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I'm not saying I'm for or against Barkley. But on its face you have to come to terms like I have that taking a running back top 5 has objectively been successful two years in a row. Fournette is an incredible difference maker in this game and we know what zeke has been doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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