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Westside Steve

Mel Kiper says

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1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Finally- quit arguing with me about the merits of your Dreamboat, Mother Hen. I've already told you (around 10X) I have a big pro Wyoming bias. If I honestly thought Allen was all that hot, I'd share your feelings. I don't and he's not. 

then STFU about me and Allen, etc etc and stop being stan's little tool. I'm just saying there's more to being a qb in the pros than stats and ratings. There really isn't anything else to say. I see things differently, no big deal. I am just answering your crap. Therefore, have a nice freaking day, hoopla.

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3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

then STFU about me and Allen, etc etc and stop being stan's little tool. I'm just saying there's more to being a qb in the pros than stats and ratings. There really isn't anything else to say. I see things differently, no big deal. I am just answering your crap. Therefore, have a nice freaking day, hoopla.

:lol::lol::lol: So now your're into Zen QB ratings?  My Zen says Allen (almost certainly) will bust- shove that one up your a$$. Mel says Allen #1, Jeremiah says Darnold #1. You are SO far into pumping anything supporting your opinion, and SO far dismissive of opposing POVs (and there are many) it's actually pretty funny. 

When you have to result to name calling- You lost Cal-snot- have a nice day. FWIW, Z is thinking of kicking your as$ off of here for crap like this, and (whining on) other forums. You have no comeback on lack of accuracy. Get back to me on when you do. One game in the Potato Bowl, holy $hit, that's almost the Championship in the NFL. There's YOUR problem- defending this guy at all costs, even when he has obvious flaws in his game (like over on the poly board, that I don't often venture over to) - bigger than talking head Kiper thinks so. 

FWIW, I'm not a Stan tool- but I sure as hell can be OBJECTIVE about what my eyes are telling me. Man, go over to nut hugger Walter Football and debate with Walt why Barkley #1 over all is dumber than hell.  

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If there is a good a video of Josh Allen blasting Trump will drop any day now and calfox's head will explode.

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I will admit that I haven't scouted Allen very much, but just a quick review of YouTube videos doesn't do much to get me excited about drafting him, let alone with the first freaking pick. How many of Allen's throws were him leaving a pocket (sometimes prematurely btw), sprinting to his right, and firing a ball right before he came to the sideline? Seemed like it happened a lot to me. Like I said earlier, I haven't really seen any "film" on the guy, and YouTube videos certainly aren't a great way to scout a player, but I was disturbed by the lack of shown "NFL passes". I didn't see much scanning the field, working progressions, hitting people in stride, or whatever else I look for. 

Is he big? Yep. Does he have a plus-plus arm? Sure. Did he lose some talent on offense which probably hindered his numbers? Probably. But it's not like he was playing in the SEC, right? His completion percentage was around 56%, which by most standards is unacceptable in the NFL. What I don't know is how much of that number was his fault. Was he missing open receivers consistently, or were his players so bad they couldn't get open? I'd like to see a breakdown of Allen and really see why his numbers were so modest. 13 touchdown passes? Uhhhhh. 

This is Mel's first mock, right? So obviously things are going to dramatically change over the next few months, and there's not much of a reason to get worked up one way or another, but it is fun to talk about. After watching Kizer struggle this year, I think accuracy is going to be one of my biggest attributes I'm looking for in a prospect. Obviously not the only thing because Kessler could really spin the short and short-intermediate stuff with solid accuracy, and he certainly couldn't cut it. We need a guy with accuracy AND the physical ability/talent required to play the position. In that measurement, I'd say Rosen is #1 with Darnold and Mayfield trailing him. Mayfield especially completed a very high percentage of passes, but certainly some of that reflects from the scheme he played in. Darnold isn't a pretty thrower of the football, but it certainly gets there and he's a much better athlete than I thought before the 2017 season. His mechanics are "Ehhh" and his decision making is scary, but I think the fumbles can be cleaned up. 

Back to Allen. At this point, I want absolutely nothing to do with him. And can analysts PLEASE stop comparing him to Ben Roethlisberger just because they're both a similar size? Enough already. Big Ben completed almost 70% of his passes in 2003, with FORTY combined touchdowns (37 passing, 3 rushing). As we know, Allen had 13 touchdown passes, and probably another handful of rushing Tds. I don't know much about the talent each one played with and against, but I'd assume it'd be somewhat comparable. Unless I'm proven otherwise at the combine, senior bowl (is Allen even eligible?), and at pro day, right now I'm not drafting a QB at #1 who threw for freaking 13 TD passes...not gonna happen. I mean, how many did he miss? Were people open? Was his coach just terrible at concepts? Could Allen simply not scan the field and find someone, or did he have a terrible OL? These are things I know nothing about, and I totally admit it. 

The last guy I remember having tremendous physical abilities that made analysts and coaches salivate, it didn't turn out well. I'm of course talking about JaMarcus Russell. Now obviously Russell had other demons he fought against, and was known to be somewhat "lazy" and uninspired, but he's an example of a guy who can throw it a mile and has a large build. By all accounts Allen is the opposite of Russell when it comes to personality and dedication, but the physical comparison still exists. We don't need a guy who can throw it a mile. We need the guy who can throw it a quarter mile to the correct person. 

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I just have been explaining the flip side. Cranky hoorta LOL would draft ryan leaf. I don't want a ryan leaf. Allen threw it to the right person a heck of a lot. Just not as much to have a great completion percentage. I get it - again, threats from hoopla not influencing me to draft a very accurate (unless he has to run for his life) rosen who many, many consider to be a first class jackwagon. Sure, he's tried to hide that his last year - he's surely been told that Claussen dropped because of it, etc etc etc.

      Being a pro qb required leadership, toughness, a lot of intangibles also - and that is where rosen is lacking. If I had to pick a qb for my pro team, and he was going to start from day one, it wouldn't be allen or kizer or rosen...none of em. The intangibles Wentz had, I wasn't alone in arguing that he was the real deal. I see a lot of the same in Allen. There isn't anything left to say about the qb draft that makes much sense.

    I really kept arguing vs drafting jm. He had great stats, I don't care. Character matters.

So, Rosen fans, have a nice day !B)

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I don't think one has to be a genius to figure out the top 10, 20, 30, 40 or more of the better players coming out in the draft. Woody, I think if SI or CBS decided to hire us to do a Draft preview whatever we slapped together would be no more or less valid than the guys getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do it. As it is there are at least 4 clumps of draft experts predicting the Cleveland Browns among four different players. 

Pretty much the information is there. Like doing a column on the weather just look at the National Weather Service change it around a tiny fraction so it looks like your own numbers and you should be as close as anybody.

WSS

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1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Woody, I think if SI or CBS decided to hire us to do a Draft preview whatever we slapped together would be no more or less valid than the guys getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do it.

Nah... it'd be less... way less... valid because few here have watched tape on any let alone 30 or players. And when it comes to "tape", highlight reels don't count.

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6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

 

Nah... it'd be less... way less... valid because few here have watched tape on any let alone 30 or players. And when it comes to "tape", highlight reels don't count.

Sure...;) I'm assuming that every one of the professionals that spends all this time studying tape or statistics or Dianetics or whatever would then all be on the same page and not split among Darnold Rosen Berkeley and Allen.

WSS

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16 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

I'm assuming that every one of the professionals that spends all this time studying tape or statistics or Dianetics or whatever would then all be on the same page and not split among Darnold Rosen Berkeley and Allen.

Who is "Berkekey"?

Well, except in a vacuum that would be a silly assumption. But in such context as competition level, team quality, off-field, etc. variation is going to occur.

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33 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

 

Nah... it'd be less... way less... valid because few here have watched tape on any let alone 30 or players. And when it comes to "tape", highlight reels don't count.

Does watching 4-5 complete games of Allen count Tour? I know that pales in comparison to the pro college scouts that will break down every pass Josh threw, and have all 22 tape. Yup, Allen's highlight reel is mighty impressive, but spend equal time on the lowlights, you tend to get a different opinion. :)

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9 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Does watching 4-5 complete games of Allen count Tour?

Depends how you "watch".

  1. If it's just a single live, real-time viewing, then it counts a little more.
  2. If you rewind to look at different aspects of throws, a lot more.
  3. If you take notes... more.
  4. Both #2 and 3? Don't look now, but you are breaking down tape...

 

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Who is "Berkekey"?

 speech to text glitch.

Well, except in a vacuum that would be a silly assumption. But in such context as competition level, team quality, off-field, etc. variation is going to occur.

;)

WSS

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Is this the same Mel Kiper that had Ryan Leaf ahead of Peyton Manning?

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1 hour ago, TopDawg31 said:

Is this the same Mel Kiper that had Ryan Leaf ahead of Peyton Manning?

actually, that is pretty good ! LOL. I reckon Kiper learned his lesson on character etc...

http://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/19/mel-kiper-2018-nfl-mock-draft-josh-allen-ryan-leaf/

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3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

actually, that is pretty good ! LOL. I reckon Kiper learned his lesson on character etc...

http://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/19/mel-kiper-2018-nfl-mock-draft-josh-allen-ryan-leaf/

My POV Cal is character counts in the evaluation- to a point. Dak Prescott dropped in the draft due to the DUI. Turns out that was an isolated instance- the same might be the case with Mayfield. Yeah, he's done some stupid crap on the field, but I'll chalk that up to youthful exuberance. OTOH, Johnny Football has so many red character flags you would have thought it was back in the day of a Kremlin parade. He's probably the only guy I've ever torpedoed mostly on that basis- but there were other holes in his game I didn't like either. 

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On 1/19/2018 at 7:19 PM, calfoxwc said:

"Analysis

Strengths

XXX  has an NFL-quality frame that allows him to look over the offensive line and deliver his throws without a hitch. His quick release is his strongest asset, as he consistently fires the ball with a compact throwing motion and strong delivery. The ball zips off his arm, and he has the ability to fit it in any tight space. He is "all of the above" in terms of being a mature, poised leader. He is an accurate passer on throws short and long, and he has that gunslinger mentality to go for the deep ball when it's an option. He understands route progressions and throwing the ball to allow his receiver to make a play."

...this guy don't sound any dang good.

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19 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

actually, that is pretty good ! LOL. I reckon Kiper learned his lesson on character etc...

So he's one one lesson up on you?

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8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

So he's one one lesson up on you?

how is that exactly? since I didn't like leaf back in the day, and now Kiper unknowingly agrees with me? eh?:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

So he's one one lesson up on you?

 

20 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

actually, that is pretty good ! LOL. I reckon Kiper learned his lesson on character etc...

Come on Tour every town needs it's town character. :D

 

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We're all characters. Why can't we all get a long? neck?

 

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38 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

We're all characters.

Agree with you on that.:wacko:

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