The Jacksonville approach

[Louisville Slugger]

According to overthecap.com the Browns have 110+ million of cap space. Jacksonville spent heavily the last couple of years and it has paid off. We theoretically have enough money to make 6 players the highest paid in their position. I don't think it's a good idea, but just to get an idea of how much cap we have here is what we could do.

K. Cousins- 27m

L. Bell- 15m

J. Landry- 18m

S. Richardson- 20m

T. Johnson- 15m

L. Joyner- 13m

That's 108 million of our 110+ million in cap space. It would put us in cap hell in the future but we really should make a move for 3 or 4 of these guys. We wouldn't have to pay some of these guys that much but we could if need be. Bottom line we can turn this team around over night just like Jacksonville did.

[darren15]

Our owner thinks its better to get new players through the draft and to steer clear of FA studs......he.thinks it's the better policy in obtaining his goal of 1-31

[Gunz41]

They certainly improved their team through FA, but quite a bit of the players were from good drafting as well. Bortles may not be great, but is still their starter. Fournette, Allens, Ramsey, Jack, etc.

You need both to work for this type of turnaround

[Louisville Slugger]

We have some good young players and a ton of picks. If we land say Cousins, Richardson, and Johnson to go with our strong front 7, offensive line, Gordon, and Njoku, we have 5 picks in the first 2 rounds to plug whatever holes we have left. Mainly focusing on secondary and skill players on offense.

[The Gipper]

I believe Sashi pretty much had an aversion to free agency.   He wanted to get the best guy he could for the cheapest price.  But that meant he signed very few actually good players.  I don't know  if, per se, Jimmy told him to hold the line on salaries...but that was the Sashi/Depo approach.

Do we know about Dorsey's track record with FAs?  Will he go after some big fish?    He has the cap space....will he use it? 

I agree that several things could/should  happen that would potentially put this team on good footing....even for next year:

A. That they DO acquire 3-4 quality free agents to give this team a boost in talent.

B. That they hit  quite well with their  5 first and second round draft picks...and beyond.   Look at the Saints...they had 4 rookies contributing mightily to a team that went to the playoffs after being fairly shite for 3 years.  

C. That their current young players improve.   The Garrett's, Njokus, Peppers, Sheltons, Ogbah's, Colemans...both of them, Nassib, Schobert, Ogunjobi and etc. etc. 

D. That some of their top players get healthy and stay healthy....including Joe Thomas,   Jamie Collins, Ogbah....and this includes young guys like Howard Wilson...and Rod Johnson.

E. We need all of these things to happen....and one more:   that our coaching staff not be the epitome of ineptitude that they appeared to be last year.  This, in fact, may be the hardest of each of these factors to achieve.

And, well...I dont 'know if that is the Jacksonville way...but it needs to be the Cleveland way.

[syd]

bringing in coughlin didn't hurt either

[gumby73]

closest team to what Denver did to slap Brady in a playoff game..No need to lose a blitzer when your front 4 can get in backfield.Fast LB'ers. Jags back end maybe younger than Denver's was? but damn Jags can cover & tackle..question Jags covering a TE cause when Ben found McDonald that game changed from 21 down..Edit--Haslem spent over 130M on player extentions & FA's..Haslem could proberly pick a better WR than Kenny Britt..  

[Rockhead]

I get the impression a lot of people think the Browns don't want to spend money on FA's.  As I see it, they didn't want to spend money on players who would make them good enough to keep losing forever. As it is now, they have a lot of "tape" on young players that will allow them to better pick in the draft and the FA market. By that I mean they have a better idea of the talent level of the roster. I really believe the strategy over the last two seasons was to go young and lose often, gather up as many good draft picks as possible and get the QB of the future in this draft (2018). That's why it was so easy to trade down from Wentze and Watson...neither were compelling prospects and the 2018 QB's provided a safety net that allowed the Browns to load up on draft picks and lose with youth (as in develope homegrown talent) safe in the knowledge that they would get their QB in this draft. LB Schobert is a prime example. Does he emerge as a pro bowl LB if he was playing behind a 28-30 year old FA LB? No. Do the Browns get their choice of QB's in this draft with 2-4 FA's starting in 2017 and getting us 3-4 wins? No. This team is poised to start winning games and moving forward on the overall talent level issue. Sashi Brown is a victim of his own system (see Dr. Frankenstien's monster). The new front office should have the know how to get us the talent via FA and the draft that Sashi Brown gave his professional life for. I think we as Browns fans are looking at a very dynamic near future for talent gathering and team building. Keep in mind, the AFC North is an aging division and Cleveland could be the up and coming power of the AFC North. In a QB driven league the Browns are set to draft their QB of the next decade and the rest of the division is hoping to squeeze another 1-3 seasons out of their aging QB's. Good luck to them in finding another franchise QB to replace their retiring franchise QB. 

[PoeticG]

I don't like it. The approach that we've committed to is the right one. Just because Sashi Shmucked up a trade that Hue wanted to make, let's not jump ship. Hue is and has been the problem. Look at coaching on any level. You either have it or you don't. Hue might be a likeable guy and all, and the players might not throw him under the bus, but it's apparent, that Hue is deficient in several key aspects that really good coaches excel in. 

Discipline, Execution and Development. I've yet to see Hue push the envelop on any of these factors. He's as Jim Brown would say, "ordinary". 

[PoeticG]

Stay the course. Forget about over-priced free agents. You come to Cleveland if you want to prove your worth, if you want to leave a legacy. If you want to be remembered as a player that turned the tide, that broke the curse. Champions need only apply. If you are a FA looking for a big payday before you ride off into the sunset- eat a finger. I have to believe that as the last crop begins to "come of age" and bond with the crop from the year before, added to some young and hungry blue-chip players- the worse is behind us. 

-Don't overspend on FAs that are going to take reps away from young talent that is about to emerge. That is ONE surefire way to sabotage the whole rebuild. We're fine, we're growing, we haven't won yet but it's coming. BELIEVE. You have to believe. It is a required ingredient to success. The players need to believe, the coaches need to believe and the fans need to believe. We can win if we stick together and fight for each other. But whatever you do, don't snuff out the ember that is developing within this team to win, now that they've felt the loss, seen the parade, felt the laughter... now is when we need to calcify and strengthen our will to win. 

 

For years we went to the "quick fix" the simple answer, switch coaches, fire the FO, new GM... another New Quarterback... on and on. Last year, was a growing pain. There were significant cuts made and many pruning of limbs that encouraged growth, don't expect full apples from undeveloped sprouts, let the sprouts grow and thrive in this new environment and soon we'll have the apples(wins) that we so long to taste. 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

34 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

He's as Jim Brown would say, "ordinary". 

Jim Brown raves about Hue when he was hired and has openly backed him since.

 

[Orion]

15 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I believe Sashi pretty much had an aversion to free agency.   He wanted to get the best guy he could for the cheapest price.

But was that owner mandated?

We'll find out this offseason...but I feel like we'll never be any good until Jimmuh gives up the team.  (go to jail Haslam)

[mjp28]

17 hours ago, darren15 said:

Our owner thinks its better to get new players through the draft and to steer clear of FA studs......he.thinks it's the better policy in obtaining his goal of 1-31

It's not a bad idea to build a base or nucleus of the team through the draft maybe get some blue chip top picks -but- when the necessary good/great FA players come along it would be nice with their cap room to land a few.

QUESTION do good/great FAs really want to go to Cleveland now? It's worked somewhat for the Indians but they have the FO, manager and core winning team established, same for the Cavaliers except for LBJ getting old(er).

[darren15]

4 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

It's not a bad idea to build a base or nucleus of the team through the draft maybe get some blue chip top picks -but- when the necessary good/great FA players come along it would be nice with their cap room to land a few.

QUESTION do good/great FAs really want to go to Cleveland now? It's worked somewhat for the Indians but they have the FO, manager and core winning team established, same for the Cavaliers except for LBJ getting old(er).

More chance of getting decent FA's now we have Dorsey and Wolfe in the FO

[TexasAg1969]

49 minutes ago, darren15 said:

More chance of getting decent FA's now we have Dorsey and Wolfe in the FO

And who really was responsible for the Britt disaster anyway, Sushi or Huey?

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

And who really was responsible for the Britt disaster anyway, Sushi or Huey?

Sushi was in charge of the 53 man roster, so I would say that one was on him.

[Tour2ma]

Yup... Britt was on the FO... and Britt.

23 hours ago, Louisville Slugger said:

 I don't think it's a good idea...

I agree.... not having enough cap space to sign your own draft is never a good idea.

16 hours ago, Rockhead said:

I get the impression a lot of people think the Browns don't want to spend money on FA's.  As I see it, they didn't want to spend money on players who would make them good enough to keep losing forever. As it is now, they have a lot of "tape" on young players that will allow them to better pick in the draft and the FA market. By that I mean they have a better idea of the talent level of the roster.

I really believe the strategy over the last two seasons was to go young and lose often, gather up as many good draft picks as possible and get the QB of the future in this draft (2018). That's why it was so easy to trade down from Wentze and Watson...neither were compelling prospects and the 2018 QB's provided a safety net that allowed the Browns to load up on draft picks and lose with youth (as in develope homegrown talent) safe in the knowledge that they would get their QB in this draft. LB Schobert is a prime example. Does he emerge as a pro bowl LB if he was playing behind a 28-30 year old FA LB? No. Do the Browns get their choice of QB's in this draft with 2-4 FA's starting in 2017 and getting us 3-4 wins? No.

This team is poised to start winning games and moving forward on the overall talent level issue. Sashi Brown is a victim of his own system (see Dr. Frankenstien's monster). The new front office should have the know how to get us the talent via FA and the draft that Sashi Brown gave his professional life for. I think we as Browns fans are looking at a very dynamic near future for talent gathering and team building. Keep in mind, the AFC North is an aging division and Cleveland could be the up and coming power of the AFC North. In a QB driven league the Browns are set to draft their QB of the next decade and the rest of the division is hoping to squeeze another 1-3 seasons out of their aging QB's. Good luck to them in finding another franchise QB to replace their retiring franchise QB. 

Pretty astute for a Newb... now if you'll just master the concept of paragraphs...

In a nutshell drafting and developing young talent was the primary route selected by this organization. It was not the exclusive route as veteran additions Zeitler, Tretter, Collins, McCourty and others including, yes, Britt, stand as testimony. Some of this vet talent was far from "cheap"... something "highest paid" tends to not be.

 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

And who really was responsible for the Britt disaster anyway, Sushi or Huey?

Tour will tell you it was "the consensus". LOL, it's the guys getting around in a circle and pointing fingers at everyone but themselves saying "it's your fault."  

[Tour2ma]

8 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Tour will tell you it was "the consensus". LOL, it's the guys getting around in a circle and pointing fingers at everyone but themselves saying "it's your fault."  

26 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Yup... Britt was on the FO... and Britt.

Same thing?

 

[thenew23]

The Jags approach:

1. Hired a new FO guy, a "football guy"... check

2. New coach to change the culture.. FAIL

3. Draft a top 3 QB... we will see

4. Commit to running the football and playing great defense... personnel-close, coaching-nowhere near

5. Stack starting 11 ( on both sides) with 1st & 2nd rounders and FAs... getting there with picks, need more impact FAs

 

Overall, the Browns still have a lot of work to do...

[Ghoolie]

On 1/17/2018 at 1:30 PM, darren15 said:

Our owner thinks its better to get new players through the draft and to steer clear of FA studs......he.thinks it's the better policy in obtaining his goal of 1-31

I would like to pork his wife. I don't care about this schiddy team. I want to pork Haslams wife. Hell, I'll pork Haslam.

 

[darren15]

4 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

I would like to pork his wife. I don't care about this schiddy team. I want to pork Haslams wife. Hell, I'll pork Haslam.

You have to pork Hue first....chain of command...Hue reports directly to Haslam ...and is that before or after you have done Paxton

[mjp28]

4 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

I would like to pork his wife. I don't care about this schiddy team. I want to pork Haslams wife. Hell, I'll pork Haslam.

 

You need some professional help......and maybe a few English grammar classes. 

[jiggins7919]

On 1/17/2018 at 3:58 PM, The Gipper said:

I believe Sashi pretty much had an aversion to free agency.   He wanted to get the best guy he could for the cheapest price.  But that meant he signed very few actually good players.  I don't know  if, per se, Jimmy told him to hold the line on salaries...but that was the Sashi/Depo approach.

Do we know about Dorsey's track record with FAs?  Will he go after some big fish?    He has the cap space....will he use it? 

I agree that several things could/should  happen that would potentially put this team on good footing....even for next year:

A. That they DO acquire 3-4 quality free agents to give this team a boost in talent.

B. That they hit  quite well with their  5 first and second round draft picks...and beyond.   Look at the Saints...they had 4 rookies contributing mightily to a team that went to the playoffs after being fairly shite for 3 years.  

C. That their current young players improve.   The Garrett's, Njokus, Peppers, Sheltons, Ogbah's, Colemans...both of them, Nassib, Schobert, Ogunjobi and etc. etc. 

D. That some of their top players get healthy and stay healthy....including Joe Thomas,   Jamie Collins, Ogbah....and this includes young guys like Howard Wilson...and Rod Johnson.

E. We need all of these things to happen....and one more:   that our coaching staff not be the epitome of ineptitude that they appeared to be last year.  This, in fact, may be the hardest of each of these factors to achieve.

And, well...I dont 'know if that is the Jacksonville way...but it needs to be the Cleveland way.

You make some good points and most of them are pretty straight forward, yet they are things that have eluded us for years. For example, we need our young studs to take a step next year, something that hasn't happened nearly as much as we've needed. This is where I feel bringing back our head coach and defensive coordinator will really shine. Learning the complexities of the NFL is something most rookies struggle with, but it's a huge advantage to them if they're coming back to the same system in their next season. 

Think about players like Schobert, Njoku, Ogbah, Garrett, Coleman, and even Gordon. They get to start the season already knowing what to expect, the language, the calls, and the other intricacies that are known to be difficult to master. It's a giant advantage and not something to understate. Heck, even Kizer has a monster advantage over any rookie coming in, and I can't see any of the rookies beating him out for that reason. 

Something else I'd like to do that Jacksonville did is copy their defense and running game. I know we need to draft a QB early, I really do, but I'd really like to figure out a way to get two defensive players in the first round and then figure out a way to jump back into the first round for our QB. Minkah Fitzpatrick and Bradley Chubb as our 2 top picks? Add another big name DB in free agency? Make it just dang near impossible to score on us....like the Jags this year. Myles Garrett is a beast on the inside, and you could line up Chubb and Ogbah on the outside, and figure out ways to get Garrett free on the inside on passing downs. Then we get a RB with a 2nd round selection. 

I know it won't happen, and I realize we've avoided selecting a QB with a high pick for far too long, but just because we need a QB early, doesn't mean that there's one who deserves to go that high. All of them have pluses, all of them have minuses. I'm just not sure anyone in the QB class is worth a #1 pick...but it's still January and we have a lot of time before the draft. I've already changed my mind 3 times, so it'll probably change 5 more, haha. 

Jacksonville gets to the QB and they do it without blitzing a lot. They also have a talented secondary that benefits from the lack of blitzing, which is something OURS doesn't receive. If we end up picking where we're slotted and we don't trade, I'd be happy with 2 of the first five picks being DB's. Get me Minkah Fitzpatrick (as free safety) and then draft a corner early in the second round. It appears to be a solid cornerback draft, and I feel we missed out last year with the Peppers pick (it's still early, but he didn't have the season we hoped for, obviously). If we do pick a QB at 1, then maybe we explore pass rushers in free agency? Those typically command BIG money, but money is one of the few things we actually have at the moment. 

Jacksonville made it this far with a decent QB. Heck, they just won a playoff game 2 weeks ago where Bortles had more RUSHING yards than passing yards. Kizer had a rough year, no doubt. But I'm not counting him out, especially if we can truly get a nasty defense. That's easier said than done, and I still have my doubts about Gregg Williams and his blitz happy style, but I expect a dramatic defensive increase in 2018, and that alone could win us a couple of games. 

[Ghoolie]

On 1/19/2018 at 5:18 AM, darren15 said:

You have to pork Hue first....chain of command...Hue reports directly to Haslam ...and is that before or after you have done Paxton

I am Ghoolie, I am the chain of Command. If I want to pork Haslam's wife, I will pork her.

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

I am Ghoolie, I am the chain of Command. If I want to pork Haslam's wife, I will pork her.

Ah personally I'd rather have the high class hooker at the Venetian.  

Dee just doesn't have the same "assets".

[Tour2ma]

Meanwhile back at the thread...

Polian was talking the other day about how hard it is to sustain "the JAX way". How many pieces have to be assembled... maintained... paid. Said at 4 to 5 years the window is about half of what it is for a potent Offense.

Interesting stuff...

[Flugel]

On 1/17/2018 at 2:30 PM, darren15 said:

Our owner thinks its better to get new players through the draft and to steer clear of FA studs......he.thinks it's the better policy in obtaining his goal of 1-31

That -or-  FA studs that know we're 1-31 in our last 32 games and 4-49 in our last 53 games don't think their careers will be long enough to justify their decision to come here. 

We have a new FO that shows me our owner may be willing to sever ties with stuff that wasn't working.  At least I hope it does....