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The Gipper

Why not Minkah at #1

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1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

Well....it would not be getting cute if they skipped the QB and went for the BPA...if the QBs on the board are, as I said, a mixed bag.

And answer me this:  by your analysis then the Browns "got cute" last year by skipping the QB  (twice).  Two QBs last year that I think perhaps are better than the Jambalaya at QBs we have this year.

before last years draft your jambalaya reference could also been used and so ya I'm saying to draft Darnold to which we could develop into a starting QB,this team needs a freaking direction and drafting Darnold would do that drafting a db from bama doesn't move the needle 

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11 minutes ago, syd said:

so looking back would you still take garrett over Watson or trubisky

If you really want me to look back....I take Bosa the year before....and then I go for MT.   But that is water over the dam.

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6 hours ago, darren15 said:

I want a vet QB then that lets us take Minkah at 1 and Barkley at 4, no QB in this years draft is a top 5 pick IMO

I could live with that. Do you see any real franchise QBs in 2018? What about 2019?

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3 minutes ago, syd said:

before last years draft your jambalaya reference could also been used and so ya I'm saying to draft Darnold to which we could develop into a starting QB,this team needs a freaking direction and drafting Darnold would do that drafting a db from bama doesn't move the needle 

If you think that Darnold is the be all end all of the QBs available...that he is John Elway/Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck The Next Generation then you surely go for him.    But I hear NO ONE saying anything remotely like that about him.   Are you hearing that?  

(In fact... he may be sitting there at #4....I hear about Rosen being more often highly ranked)

And I don't care about moving any needles.  What needle are you wanting moved?  TV ratings?   i want wins. 

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5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Why do I have to think about that?  Why not just tell me.  Use whatever source you want.

Then explain why this is relevant here.

Because before the draft, there might have been a good chance neither were a top 10 overall prospect. Drafted #1 and 2, because they are QBs, but neither were considered "can't miss QBs".

Two years later would anyone complain about where they were taken?

Which speaks directly to your point.

Relevant enough?

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1 minute ago, mjp28 said:

I could live with that. Do you see any real franchise QBs in 2018? What about 2019?

Lets not even talk about 2019.    Hell, my theory is that it may certainly be possible that you could get your best QB coming out of this draft somewhere down the line....2d 3rd round.  You know...like a Russell Wilson. I don't predict it....just saying it is possible.

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Just now, The Gipper said:

If you think that Darnold is the be all end all of the QBs available...that he is John Elway/Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck The Next Generation then you surely go for him.    But I hear NO ONE saying anything remotely like that about him.   Are you hearing that?  

And I don't care about moving any needles.  What needle are you wanting moved?  TV ratings?   i want wins. 

You better have the #1 pick to get one of the above super QBs or prepare to gut your draft to trade up. Throw in Marino and Aikman on that list also.

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1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

Lets not even talk about 2019.    Hell, my theory is that it may certainly be possible that you could get your best QB coming out of this draft somewhere down the line....2d 3rd round.  You know...like a Russell Wilson. I don't predict it....just saying it is possible.

I'm not going to research it, but I'd say that from current NFL QBs, how many were taken in first round? And how many you'd say they are good. A Russell Wilson appears once in 5-10 years. A Brady in the 6th once in a lifetime.

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1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

Because before the draft, there might have been a good chance neither were a top 10 overall prospect. Drafted #1 and 2, because they are QBs, but neither were considered "can't miss QBs".

Two years later would anyone complain about where they were taken?

Which speaks directly to your point.

Relevant enough?

Possibly.   But you are trying to make future predictions based on past events.  (I know, I do it all the time).   

All I am saying is that very few actual "rankings of talent" put any of these guys as the best prospects in this draft.  Only the Mocks do that.  And maybe you are right...perhaps it could be proven a few years down the road that these top QBs taken become the Eli/BR/Rivers of this year.   Or, as I said, they could be the Ponders/Lockers/Gabberts.  We don't know. 

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2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Lets not even talk about 2019.    Hell, my theory is that it may certainly be possible that you could get your best QB coming out of this draft somewhere down the line....2d 3rd round.  You know...like a Russell Wilson. I don't predict it....just saying it is possible.

True in a way plus you might not (hopefully) have the #1, 2, 3 picks anyhow......but a few guesses might be interesting just to compare with 2018.

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every mock draft has rosen and Donald going #1 and #2  only walters has barkley going #1 which they say it could be Donald

we have to go QB drafting a db is not going to win games 

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2 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

You better have the #1 pick to get one of the above super QBs or prepare to gut your draft to trade up. Throw in Marino and Aikman on that list also.

Marino was the #27 pick in the draft.   5 others were taken before him...but he can arguably be considered  the best of that group...though you do have Elway and Kelly in there.  

Do you think there is a #27 Marino that could go this year?  It is certainly possible.

Do you think that as many as 5-6 will go in round one?   That has only happened twice in the common draft era...as many as 5 QBs taken.   1983 and 1999.

1983 produced 3 HOFers,  one very good one (O/Brien), one mediocre (Eason)..and one bust (Blackledge).  1999 produced one borderline HOF in McNabb.  One pretty good one in Culpepper.  Another fairly good one imo...whose career was cut short by injury: Couch, and two complete busts:  Akili and McCown.

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2 minutes ago, syd said:

every mock draft has rosen and Donald going #1 and #2  only walters has barkley going #1 which they say it could be Donald

we have to go QB drafting a db is not going to win games 

Walter #2 & 5, even the BROWNS bypassing taking a QB......just sayin.

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2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Marino was the #27 pick in the draft.   5 others were taken before him...but he can arguably be considered  the best of that group...though you do have Elway and Kelly in there.  

Do you think there is a #27 Marino that could go this year?  It is certainly possible.

Do you think that as many as 5-6 will go in round one?   That has only happened twice in the common draft era...as many as 5 QBs taken.   1983 and 1999.

1983 produced 3 HOFers,  one very good one (O/Brien), one mediocre (Eason)..and one bust (Blackledge).  1999 produced one borderline HOF in McNabb.  One pretty good one in Culpepper.  Another fairly good one imo...whose career was cut short by injury: Couch, and two complete busts:  Akili and McCown.

Marino was in the 1983 best ever QB draft hard to make the top 10 there! PLUS the drug rumours (some said planted) dropped Marino but Don Shula didn't buy it.

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4 minutes ago, syd said:

guess we have a long time to talk about it

I'll start to count draft-related threads from now on and enjoy the artillery sound. 

I am going to do some pop corn. Wanna some?

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1 minute ago, syd said:

guess we have a long time to talk about it

99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer.   Take one down and pass it around

98 bottles of beer on the wall.   98 bottles of beer on the wall, 98 bottles of beer. Take one down and pass it around,

97 bottles of beer on the wall.97 bottles of beer on the wall, 97 bottles of beer.  Take one down and pass it around, 96 bottles of beer on the wall.........v:lol:

Yeah the Indians will be playing before long.

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3 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Marino was in the 1983 best ever QB draft hard to make the top 10 there! PLUS the drug rumours (some said planted) dropped Marino but Don Shula didn't buy it.

thing is times have changed since then so many sports channels national sports radio (cough cough) the internet a lot of info out there some true some not but it usually gets figured out on message boards like these

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2 minutes ago, Nero said:

I'll start to count draft-related threads from now on and enjoy the artillery sound. 

I am going to do some pop corn. Wanna some?

 

1 minute ago, mjp28 said:

99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer.   Take one down and pass it around

98 bottles of beer on the wall.   98 bottles of beer on the wall, 98 bottles of beer. Take one down and pass it around,

97 bottles of beer on the wall.97 bottles of beer on the wall, 97 bottles of beer.  Take one down and pass it around, 96 bottles of beer on the wall.........v:lol:

Yeah the Indians will be playing before long.

oh hell yes popcorn and beer and drunken bantering gotta love it

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6 minutes ago, Nero said:

I'm not going to research it, but I'd say that from current NFL QBs, how many were taken in first round? And how many you'd say they are good. A Russell Wilson appears once in 5-10 years. A Brady in the 6th once in a lifetime.

Not sure what you are asking?  Are you asking where, of the starting QBs on the 32 teams this past year, did they get drafted?  

I know at least about half of them were 1st rounders.  Just off the top of my head:

Goff #1 overall

Rivers #4

Palmer #1...now retired

Watson #10

Alex Smith  #1

Rodgers (injured like #24..not sure about Hundley)

Trubisky #2

Stafford #1

Mariota #2

Ryan #3

Newton #1

Bortles #3

Cutler  mid 1st...like #11

Winston #1

Flaco...like #18 I think

Ben R.  #11

Wentz #2

Eli #1

Luck #1  injured

Others:

Wilson 3rd round

Carr 2d round

Garrapolo 2d 

Prescott 4th round

Keenum:  UDFA

Brees  2d  (#32...which was 2d at the time)

Brissett...not sure...mid rounder

Kizer  2d

Dalton 2d

Cousins 4th

Taylor...not sure   mid rounder?

Brady 6th

And if you can tell me who the Jets and Broncos started...I guess I may be able to tell what round they came in.    Siemian was like 7th round. Bryce Petty was 3rd.  Osweiler was 2d or 3rd. 

 

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27 minutes ago, syd said:

every mock draft has rosen and Donald going #1 and #2  only walters has barkley going #1 which they say it could be Donald

we have to go QB drafting a db is not going to win games 

Again....Mocks are projections about what they think a team WILL do....they are NOT a ranking of the actual best talent.  I would expect that just about everyone would expect the Browns to take a QB at #1.   

But I am asking:  should they?   As....are any of these guys really worthy of the #1 pick?  Most RANKINGS of talent say no....most mocks say that is what will happen.  

As to your last statement....we ALL should know that a QB WILL lose you a lot of games (or did you not watch the Browns this year?)......and perhaps a top DB will prevent you from losing a lot of games.

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1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

Again....Mocks are projections about what they think a team WILL do....they are NOT a ranking of the actual best talent.  I would expect that just about everyone would expect the Browns to take a QB at #1.   

But I am asking:  should they?   As....are any of these guys really worthy of the #1 pick?  Most RANKINGS of talent say no....most mocks say that is what will happen.  

As to your last statement....we ALL should now that a QB WILL lose you a lot of games (or did you not watch the Browns this year?)......and perhaps a top DB will prevent you from losing a lot of games.

no hue lost us all those games sashi didn't help either by not keeping a vet qb on the team,so ya a decent coach and a good qb can take you to the promised land before a db will

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17 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Marino was in the 1983 best ever QB draft hard to make the top 10 there! PLUS the drug rumours (some said planted) dropped Marino but Don Shula didn't buy it.

You saying Marino was better than either Kelly or Elway?

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Yes quarterbacks go high, the most important players on the field. There are also busts, a list of 50 including some recent BROWNS:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1047730-50-biggest-quarterback-busts-in-nfl-draft-history

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2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Not sure what you are asking?  Are you asking where, of the starting QBs on the 32 teams this past year, did they get drafted?  

I know at least about half of them were 1st rounders.  Just off the top of my head:

Goff #1 overall

Rivers #4

Palmer #1...now retired

Watson #10

Alex Smith  #1

Rodgers (injured like #24..not sure about Hundley)

Trubisky #2

Stafford #1

Mariota #2

Ryan #3

Newton #1

Bortles #3

Cutler  mid 1st...like #11

Winston #1

Flaco...like #18 I think

Ben R.  #11

Wentz #2

Eli #1

Luck #1  injured

Others:

Wilson 3rd round

Carr 2d round

Garrapolo 2d 

Prescott 4th round

Keenum:  UDFA

Brees  2d  (#32...which was 2d at the time)

Brissett...not sure...mid rounder

Kizer  2d

Dalton 2d

Cousins 4th

Taylor...not sure   mid rounder?

Brady 6th

And if you can tell me who the Jets and Broncos started...I guess I may be able to tell what round they came in.    Siemian was like 7th round. Bryce Petty was 3rd.  Osweiler was 2d or 3rd. 

 

OK. Among those, I'd only take the following non-first rounders: Wilson, Carr, Garoppolo, Brees, Brady. 5 out of 32 is not a very nice statistic. 

Among first rounders: Stafford, Mariota, Ryan, Newton, Winston (meh), Flacco, BR, Eli, Wentz, Luck. 11 out of 32. 

So it could be said that you double your chances by drafting a QB on first round. Not because drafting a random guy on 1st makes him automatically good, but because everyone drafts BPA thay fits their needs, just before someone else tries to draft him. So if you draft someone on 1st it is because a bigger number of teams think he's good, therefore there's less risk to fail.

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Just now, The Gipper said:

You saying Marino was better than either Kelly or Elway?

No just a top QB.

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2 minutes ago, syd said:

no hue lost us all those games sashi didn't help either by not keeping a vet qb on the team,so ya a decent coach and a good qb can take you to the promised land before a db will

Well....of 16 losses....Hue gets the Lions share.....but...Kizer was directly responsible for all the TOs....so if he doesn't get the lion's share....he gets the Tiger's share.

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4 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Yes quarterbacks go high, the most important players on the field. There are also busts, a list of 50 including some recent BROWNS:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1047730-50-biggest-quarterback-busts-in-nfl-draft-history

There is a bit of assholery in there.   And definitely a few that don't belong.  Culpepper, Pennington, O'brien, Kerry Collins....were all actually fairly good QBs.  I believe Couch should not be in there.

And this must be fairly old....as there is no Weeden/Manziel in there.

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1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

Well....of 16 losses....Hue gets the Lions share.....but...Kizer was directly responsible for all the TOs....so if he doesn't get the lion's share....he gets the Tiger's share.

ha aha aha  I agree but if we would bother to develop a qb (hopefully we bring in a vet qb) I would rather go that route which is why i would like to see us draft a qb #1 and hopefully we draft the right one

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