Some other rookie qb's stats with Kizer's

[calfoxwc]

13 minutes ago, Jp91761 said:

Kizer doesn’t need to get drunk. 

Before the pitt-Browns game, Kosar was talking about pittsburps offense and defense -

it was excellent stuff. and he has been working on all the slurring, etc, eating right, etc...and he didn't slur one bit.

He's doing really well. and he's still one of the most brilliant qb minds that ever played the game.

[Browns1216]

33 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Before the pitt-Browns game, Kosar was talking about pittsburps offense and defense -

it was excellent stuff. and he has been working on all the slurring, etc, eating right, etc...and he didn't slur one bit.

He's doing really well. and he's still one of the most brilliant qb minds that ever played the game.

i agree, would love to get Bernie involved either as QB coach or even better, as Hue's new OC.  Would be great to have someone who's passionate about the team as part of the coaching staff, maybe it would inspire those guys to get out and play and actually remember how to catch and tackle.

[Tour2ma]

If Kizer's only "touch issue" was the accuracy of his corner fade throws, then I'd still be borderline giddy about his chances, but as the season wore on... as the cries about him holding the ball too long waned due to this and other areas of improvement... as he stopped throwing fastballs to every receivers regardless of their distance from him...the deficiency that emerged was his touch in general.

What comes naturally to most of the backyard QBs on this forum, because we can't throw a 30-yd rope, reduces Kizer to awkward. Most of worm-burners he threw in the last six games were the product of aimed passes he tried to take some pace off. He just doesn't have "the feel"... that unconscious, automatic, instantaneous compensation of launch angles for pace... and to me that is shocking for a kid who has played QB as long as he has.

[The Gipper]

14 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

If Kizer's only "touch issue" was the accuracy of his corner fade throws, then I'd still be borderline giddy about his chances, but as the season wore on... as the cries about him holding the ball too long waned due to this and other areas of improvement... as he stopped throwing fastballs to every receivers regardless of their distance from him...the deficiency that emerged was his touch in general.

What comes naturally to most of the backyard QBs on this forum, because we can't throw a 30-yd rope, reduces Kizer to awkward. Most of worm-burners he threw in the last six games were the product of aimed passes he tried to take some pace off. He just doesn't have "the feel"... that unconscious, automatic, instantaneous compensation of launch angles for pace... and to me that is shocking for a kid who has played QB as long as he has.

Remember Chuck Knoblach....2d baseman for the Yankees, I believe.    He went through a stretch where he could not for the life of him throw the ball from his spot at 2d base over to the first baseman with any accuracy at all.....balls in the dirt, over the 1st baseman's head, too far left....too far right. Nothing.   Blake Bortles looked a bit like that the other day.....and Kizer has that in him some.    With Knoblach...it was just a mental thing.  With Kizer...I just think that is who he is.....completely inaccurate.

[hoorta]

17 hours ago, boo fagley said:

So, you guys are comfortable with not using a 1st on QB.

 

Nope, I will have a hissy fit if they don't. I'm pretty sure they will though. 

15 hours ago, mjp28 said:

In year two Kizer would be an adequate 2nd QB if they can land a current FA or other trade/deal. To draft yet another rookie QB savior #1 may or may not work. I'd rater work on building the team with best available blue chip players with their plethora of picks, a good second round QB might work as a project QB.

All of this and more to be kicked around between now and April 26.

Yes, and the QB we draft #1 overall will be third on the depth chart. Kizer was a second round project BTW. Too many QBs will go off the board in the first round, we're not shopping the bargain bin this year. Looks like Tour has come around to my way of thinking, way too risky to hope Kizer can develop. You want a project? We take Benkert as the second QB later in the draft.

We haven't drafted a QB high since Tim Couch, it's time to change the trend. The Bengals kept swinging high on busts like Dave Kingler and Akilli Smith, then they hit on Carson Palmer. 

[Tour2ma]

26 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Remember Chuck Knoblach....2d baseman for the Yankees, I believe.    He went through a stretch where he could not for the life of him throw the ball from his spot at 2d base over to the first baseman with any accuracy at all.....balls in the dirt, over the 1st baseman's head, too far left....too far right. Nothing.   Blake Bortles looked a bit like that the other day.....and Kizer has that in him some.    With Knoblach...it was just a mental thing.  With Kizer...I just think that is who he is.....completely inaccurate.

Great example that I think you are misapplying...

As I remember it Knoblach's issues arose when he had time to think about the throw such as when a hard ground ball was hit right at him. When he had to react quickly throwing was not an issue. I see Kizer having to think about taking pace off throws that he has not rehearsed such as screens.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Great example that I think you are misapplying...

As I remember it Knoblach's issues arose when he had time to think about the throw such as when a hard ground ball was hit right at him. When he had to react quickly throwing was not an issue. I see Kizer having to think about taking pace off throws that he has not rehearsed such as screens.

It is an example of two guys who could not hit the broad sign of a barn door...so there is no misapplication there...whatever the reason for their failures. 

And...are you saying that you believe that Kizer never practiced throwing screens?   A. I find that completely hard to believe..or B. If true...it is a clue of just what a fuyucked up job Hue has done coaching him.

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Its all about accuracy.  Nothing is more important.  And I wonder if that is something that you can teach.  I think it is either you were born with it or not.  I never had a coach, or even a Dad, who ever showed or 'taught' me to throw.  But I was just naturally accurate at throwing anything from a football, baseball, or bean bag.  Even when I was little I could see that I could throw things more accurate than any of the other kids.  I just had a feel for it.  And funny thing is, at nearly 70, I still do.

So the point is, take the most accurate kid you can get, then teach him the things that are teachable. 

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, SissyBoyFloyd said:

Its all about accuracy.  Nothing is more important.  And I wonder if that is something that you can teach.  I think it is either you were born with it or not.  I never had a coach, or even a Dad, who ever showed or 'taught' me to throw.  But I was just naturally accurate at throwing anything from a football, baseball, or bean bag.  Even when I was little I could see that I could throw things more accurate than any of the other kids.  I just had a feel for it.  And funny thing is, at nearly 70, I still do.

So the point is, take the most accurate kid you can get, then teach him the things that are teachable. 

I don't believe that it can be taught.   If a guy is inaccurate in college, it doesn't translate well to him suddenly becoming more accurate when the players are bigger and stronger and faster and the windows are closing much quicker.   Accuracy in college doesn't guarantee success in the NFL but being inaccurate damn near always equates to a guy being more inaccurate in the NFL. 

[Richiswhere]

On 1/9/2018 at 1:35 PM, calfoxwc said:

Just saw this on "Tailgate 19 with Jim Donvan... and copied it down:

rookie years for some notable starting quarterbacks in the NFL:

                                            RECORD       COMP%           TOT YDS          TD/INT     QB RATING

Peyton Manning(22 yrs)  3-13                56.7                3,739 yrds        26/28              71,2

KIZER                                  0-15                53.6                2894                 11/22               60.5

Troy Aikman(23 yrs)         0-11                52.9                 1749                 9/18                55.7

Andrew Luck(23 yrs)         11.5                54.1                 4374                23/18               76.5

Fran Tarkenton(21 yrs)      2-8                  56.1                 1997                18/17               74.7

John Elway(23 yrs)            4-6                   47.5                 1663                 7/14                54.9

Puts KIzer in more of a different perspective.

Then I went and looked up Terry Bradshaw's rookie year, starting ....

Terry Bradshaw                  5-9                   38.1                  1410                6/24                30.4

I know, surely that td/int ratio is a mistype, right? nope.

http://www.nfl.com/player/terrybradshaw/2510042/careerstats

I remember Bradshaw saying he nearly got booed out of PIttspuke stadium...

  The jump to the NFL is tough - a giant step. A giant work ethic is required. Maybe there's hope for Kizer yet?

 

 

quarterbacks from the 60's and 70's

[Dutch Oven]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

What comes naturally to most of the backyard QBs on this forum, because we can't throw a 30-yd rope, reduces Kizer to awkward. Most of worm-burners he threw in the last six games were the product of aimed passes he tried to take some pace off. He just doesn't have "the feel"... that unconscious, automatic, instantaneous compensation of launch angles for pace... and to me that is shocking for a kid who has played QB as long as he has.

I'm surprised you are shocked by this, Derek Anderson and Brandon Weeden were both afflicted by this disease.

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, Richiswhere said:

quarterbacks from the 60's and 70's

2 of the 7 listed.

[mjp28]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Nope, I will have a hissy fit if they don't. I'm pretty sure they will though. 

Yes, and the QB we draft #1 overall will be third on the depth chart. Kizer was a second round project BTW. Too many QBs will go off the board in the first round, we're not shopping the bargain bin this year. Looks like Tour has come around to my way of thinking, way too risky to hope Kizer can develop. You want a project? We take Benkert as the second QB later in the draft.

We haven't drafted a QB high since Tim Couch, it's time to change the trend. The Bengals kept swinging high on busts like Dave Kingler and Akilli Smith, then they hit on Carson Palmer.

True. Plus the boom/bust thing goes on around the league year after year.  With the BROWNS are they A. a QB away or B. still need to team build?

After 1-31 I'd say B.  Most media thinks the BROWNS will take a QB from the PAC-10 at #1 or maybe #4 but not all.

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, mjp28 said:

True. Plus the boom/bust thing goes on around the league year after year.  With the BROWNS are they A. a QB away or B. still need to team build?

After 1-31 I'd say B.  Most media thinks the BROWNS will take a QB from the PAC-10 at #1 or maybe #4 but not all.

Outside of the #1 overall. We have the #4, three picks in the second, and 12 overall. There's your "filling holes". Nah- if we go the "build the team first" route. Here's what happens 2019. We go 6-10, and you can kiss getting the top QB of that draft goodbye, short of selling the ranch to move up. Taking one outside the top 10 this year? We've gone that route too, and it ain't pretty. The cursed #22 Quinn, Weeden, Manziel. Second round Kizer- I'm going Ghoolie- I called him a bust the day we drafted him. Third round- Frye, McCoy, Kessler. 

Need anymore convincing the time to go for broke on a QB is April 2018? 

[wargograw]

10 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Remember Chuck Knoblach....2d baseman for the Yankees, I believe.    He went through a stretch where he could not for the life of him throw the ball from his spot at 2d base over to the first baseman with any accuracy at all.....balls in the dirt, over the 1st baseman's head, too far left....too far right. Nothing.   Blake Bortles looked a bit like that the other day.....and Kizer has that in him some.    With Knoblach...it was just a mental thing.  With Kizer...I just think that is who he is.....completely inaccurate.

A good fightin' Texas Aggie!

[Tour2ma]

23 hours ago, The Gipper said:

It is an example of two guys who could not hit the broad sign of a barn door...so there is no misapplication there...whatever the reason for their failures. 

And...are you saying that you believe that Kizer never practiced throwing screens?   A. I find that completely hard to believe..or B. If true...it is a clue of just what a fuyucked up job Hue has done coaching him.

It is because there are discernible reasons... if you look.

I meant screens to be an example of a touch throw that is rehearsed. I can see how I stated that might be confusing.

[Tour2ma]

 

20 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm surprised you are shocked by this, Derek Anderson and Brandon Weeden were both afflicted by this disease.

I always felt DA and Wheezy were one read wonders... that they could make the throws they needed to make, but if their primary was not "open" then they were up sh!t creek. Of course sometimes they made the throw anyway. I see Kizer having a different issue.

16 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Kizer trivia.

Your specialty.

Nah... that's my specialty.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

It is because there are discernible reasons... if you look.

I meant screens to be an example of a touch throw that is rehearsed. I can see how I stated that might be confusing.

When you put a "not" in where it shouldn't be, yes, it can confuse.

[Jp91761]

On 1/10/2018 at 8:49 AM, calfoxwc said:

Before the pitt-Browns game, Kosar was talking about pittsburps offense and defense -

it was excellent stuff. and he has been working on all the slurring, etc, eating right, etc...and he didn't slur one bit.

He's doing really well. and he's still one of the most brilliant qb minds that ever played the game.

Are you his wife or family member?  

[calfoxwc]

do you know who Kosar is?

did you hear what he said about pittspuke before that game?

or you don't think he is one of the smartest qb's to ever play the game? what ?

[Unsympathetic]

I have no idea why this thread was started. Kizer is simply too inaccurate to be anything other than an injury replacement starter.  There shouldn't be any doubt on this -- magical hope doesn't make him anywhere near as talented as Rosen.

I agree, Kizer doesn't have "it" -- and the "it" is called accuracy.  He also locks onto one receiver rather than going through the play's progression, among other things.

[calfoxwc]

I thought it was interesting that other rookie qb's had tough first years starting. Doesn't mean I think Kizer can develop into a star - I think he just has limits on how much he can see of the field. But, those qb's who  DID prove that they saw the field, had trouble at first, when they started as rookies. To a degree, I think inaccuracy can be corrected with fundamentals. Didn't say IS corrected, necessarily, but CAN be. Perhaps there's hope for him yet -

he can end up a fine backup with serious physical skills, maybe fix the inaccuracy problems. It's just not like  star qb's always show it their first year. That's all. Goff struggled his first year, started rolling his second...