calfoxwc Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just saw this on "Tailgate 19 with Jim Donvan... and copied it down: rookie years for some notable starting quarterbacks in the NFL: RECORD COMP% TOT YDS TD/INT QB RATING Peyton Manning(22 yrs) 3-13 56.7 3,739 yrds 26/28 71,2 KIZER 0-15 53.6 2894 11/22 60.5 Troy Aikman(23 yrs) 0-11 52.9 1749 9/18 55.7 Andrew Luck(23 yrs) 11.5 54.1 4374 23/18 76.5 Fran Tarkenton(21 yrs) 2-8 56.1 1997 18/17 74.7 John Elway(23 yrs) 4-6 47.5 1663 7/14 54.9 Puts KIzer in more of a different perspective. Then I went and looked up Terry Bradshaw's rookie year, starting .... Terry Bradshaw 5-9 38.1 1410 6/24 30.4 I know, surely that td/int ratio is a mistype, right? nope. http://www.nfl.com/player/terrybradshaw/2510042/careerstats I remember Bradshaw saying he nearly got booed out of PIttspuke stadium... The jump to the NFL is tough - a giant step. A giant work ethic is required. Maybe there's hope for Kizer yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Yea, maybe, we shall see. It would still not prevent me from wanting someone else here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 38 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: I know, surely that td/int ratio is a mistype, right? nope. Even more cringe-worthy is Terry's INT%... 11.0... lol... nearly 1 out of every 9 passes he threw was picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Alex Smith rookie season 1TD - 11INT with like 50%. Matt Stafford was pretty bad too. One of the most overlooked stats this year is 15 starts and honestly probably shoulda been all 16 with only minor time missed due too injury. For a position the browns have gone 4 deep in one season on occasion. There should be a emphasis on a guy that can actually physically hold up. It's a weird situation. The only reason I see for completly giving up on him is the fact he's a 2nd rounder vs a 1st rounder. But the rub is no NFL organization may ever have as many primo picks with endless money like the browns do Kiser may not have done enough to be the franchise guy right now but he is good enough to sit and be a teams backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Oh, we'll see how Kizer progresses/regresses. The kid seems to have a great attitude & certainly all the physical attributes needed. My issues with him boil down to 3 things...accuracy, seeing the whole field, & TOUCH. I just don't know how much the accuracy & touch can improve through coaching, but I guess time will tell. At the very least, he needs time behind a veteran to learn & continue to develop. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I was making this same argument through about the first half of the season but it became clear as the season went on that he wasn't learning and still making the same mistakes and bone head throws that he was making in week 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, boo fagley said: So, you guys are comfortable with not using a 1st on QB. I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, boo fagley said: Kizer is nothing but another Tyrod Taylor. Did you watch him last Sunday? Sure Kizer/Taylor will start and make some plays. Then they cant hit Rosie Odennel is the a$$ with a football. i'm not even sure he's that good. I think Tyrod Taylor is a better QB than Kizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mark O said: I'm not. Dumpster Challenge.. Place 2 dumpsters in each back corner of end zone. Go live action from 10 & 15 yard line. How many does Kizer put in out of 10 throws..over under is 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiswhere Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, gumby73 said: Dumpster Challenge.. Place 2 dumpsters in each back corner of end zone. Go live action from 10 & 15 yard line. How many does Kizer put in out of 10 throws..over under is 6? Is the dumpster on fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 still draft a qb first round high. Just get your guy. If Kizer develops over time, you have a great backup either way. A veteran would help immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Dorsey has no connection to Kizer and will definitely bring in another starting QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Kizer was too young with little NCAA experience to be a starting quarterback in the NFL especially on a crappy team with no real WR threats. True he made some awful decisions but it wasn't all #19 with all of the drops and bad routes....but we all saw the games. IF another team picked him up with a good cast around him he would have had even better rookie numbers, hypothetically. GO BROWNS 2018, get a veteran QB! While you're at it a few top WRs in the draft would be nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I have no idea if Kizer will ever be a quality NFL QB. I am confident that the Browns did him zero favors last season. Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, boo fagley said: So, you guys are comfortable with not using a 1st on QB. No, I'm not. IMHO, we need to draft a QB #1. I would consider keeping Kizer as basically a 3rd QB to see whether or not he develops. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, Canton Mike said: No, I'm not. IMHO, we need to draft a QB #1. I would consider keeping Kizer as basically a 3rd QB to see whether or not he develops. Mike In year two Kizer would be an adequate 2nd QB if they can land a current FA or other trade/deal. To draft yet another rookie QB savior #1 may or may not work. I'd rater work on building the team with best available blue chip players with their plethora of picks, a good second round QB might work as a project QB. All of this and more to be kicked around between now and April 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 veteran qb's can be weird. Hoyer has not helped many. McCown would help anybody..I'd doubt Alex Smith was tutoring Mcholmes much.nor Glennon helping Mitch much at start.you'd think a vet qb could help you see coverage's,see reads & progressions quicker. But after that.. touch & game speed accuracy..your pretty much on your own..Kizer was not ready out of school as his HC stated.we heard,Browns should give Kizer time to grow as a 2nd rounder. Kizer has been tutor-less & WR talent-less..than toss on mis-managed by a coach & his mindless play calling...well if ya compare that QB list up top.. I'd say they had far better coaching? Better team Weapons? Most had to of have better mentor QB rooms to a rookie QB not named Brock,Cody nor Hogan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I strongly believe that we lost some games because of Kizer, but we lost others because of other factors, like D, Hue, FGs, fumbles, special teams... We just found ways to lose every game. As @Dutch Oven has said, the Browns did zero favors to Kizer: - Awful receivers, drops. - Couldn't practise with Coleman and Gordon for most of the season (this helps to develop timing with receivers and to be in the same page) - Little offensive scheme adaptation to his skills (thanks Hue). He was required to make more post-snap reads than many other QBs, and that's hard for a rookie: you should make it easier for him, not harder. - Late playcalling. Goff improved a lot, in part thanks to McVay giving him the call right away, so he had 15-20 seconds under center and his coach could help him reading the defense (headphone shuts down at 10). Kizer had 10 many times. - NO RUSHING ATTACK. Hue left all the offense on Kizer's shoulders, when we should have focused on running more. Now, what I see on Kizer: PROS: - Age, he was 21. It has been said a hundred times that he was raw even for his college coach. - Resilience. He took big hits, never got injured. A concussion for a free sack (at Lions) is something no QB can avoid. He's tough. He only had a migraine in one game, still played half of it. - Maturity. He looks like a serious guy and tries his best. - He can use his legs, learned during season to push for a few more yards. - Strong arm. CONS: - Reading the field - Lack of touch (he can't do a fade pass in the endzone) - Accuracy . His redzone stats are awful, on intermediate passes he throws too low many times. - Regressing at some points. I.E. he held the ball too long in first games, then improved on that, and on season's finale did it again. You think he has learnt something but he later does the same mistake he did 3 games ago. At least that's what I felt. - Few snaps under center. To sum up, it was the worst position to play in NFL last year. I don't know how a rookie Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, or Brees would have looked there. For example, it's logical to panick in a 0-13 team and make a stupid throw across your body or stuff like that. I don't think you can ask a rookie to win games for you with the little help he was given. Good thing is that we can add two QBs on March and April and see on training camp what has he improved. He has way more games on his back than any other 2017 rookie QB, so he has way more experience and can learn from the many mistakes he made, to fix them during offseason. I wish he hires a coach, goes through all his tape, and works his butt off to fix mechanics, reading, accuracy, et al. I really root for this guy, and it only helps the team having some competition in the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Kizer just doesnt have the "IT" factor... You can just see it in every good QB there is.. Kizer panicks like a kunt.. He's just not a leader of men.. or women for that matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter33109 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I disagree with comparing Kizer with QB’s from the past; it’s highly unlikely to forecast future results. There are too many variables that prohibit that, like holding the ball too long and not looking off safeties, both of which Kizer showed no improvement on as the season progressed. During the season many sport writers were call for Kizer’s head until the last game but once the season was over they came out and changed their tune by saying you “have to look at things in perspective”. Perspective bought the Browns a 0-16 season and the everlasting hope that next year will be better. I have to tell you next year never comes. The definition of insanitary is doing things the same way and expecting a different RESULT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 13 hours ago, boo fagley said: So, you guys are comfortable with not using a 1st on QB. The answer for me is "it depends". We're not getting Kirk Cousins, but if we somehow do, then I don't want a QB at #1. More likely is us trading for Alex Smith, but due to his age, I'd still want to draft a QB early. Perhaps not #1, but definitely in the first round. Perhaps we trade down SLIGHTLY if we can find a partner, and take Baker Mayfield around 12-14? Draft CB/S Minkah Fitzpatrick at #4, get some more picks in the trade, and then draft Mayfield? Yeah, I’d be TOTALLY cool with that! If we don’t get Alex Smith, we probably have to take our favorite QB at #1. Heck, many people would probably STILL want us to take our favorite QB at #1 even if we DO trade for Alex, but that’s not the move I’d make. I like a lot of physical traits about Rosen, but I’m just not sure he’s the right guy for the Cleveland Browns. Playing QB for the Browns isn’t a job for someone rumored to be snobby, entitled, and recently twice-concussed. Sam Darnold scares the CRAP out of me, and while I agree he has a lot of enticing attributes, I’m so terrified of watching another QB turn it over constantly. I keep going back to Kizer in my head, and thinking that many people seem to be writing him off. It’s easy to do considering the bumpy year he had, veteran QBs who might be available, and us having the 1st and 4th pick. But has rough as Kizer was in 2017, something tells me he’s going to be in the mix if we somehow don’t get one of the top available veteran QBs. I just don’t see a rookie beating him out, and I see Kizer working his BUTT off during the offseason. He’ll also know the system, the language, the protection, and the players. Many QB’s talk about just how fast the game was during their rookie season, and how the game “slowed down for them” in year 2. If that holds true for Kizer, it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see him keep the job. I’m not saying “Kizer is definitely the man!” or anything, but he’s got a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy ... Probably the hardest thing to change/improve upon. There is a lot to like about the kid. And we have him on a friendly four year deal while we try to find out if he can do it. He's got 15 starts under his belt and he just turned 22 this week. But he'll be backing up somebody next year, whether it is a top veteran or the #1 overall pick ... he'll have to fight hard and improve to ever be a starter gain. I'm rooting for him. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'm not doing to disagree in the slightest that we didn't do Kizer any favors. But with 15 starts under your belt, towards the later 3-4 starts it's time to start showing SOMETHING to say "hey, we can look past the numbers a bit because of the marked improvement". That has to come regardless of the situation. Let me ask then, did Kizer do ANYTHING of the sort to show he's not going to make the same lousy mistakes from weeks 1-3? In fact, I'd argue he got worse as time went on and teams scouted for him. That's the difference when you go beyond looking at raw numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Accuracy I'll agree somewhat there but many of his bad throws were just forcing the ball in red zone situations bad judgment and rookie inexperience. Accuracy can be improved upon in offseason drills with a good quarterback guru. Also to beat a dead horse again having better WRs that can catch and go deep would be nice. Will he be a franchise quarterback who knows probably not, some other quarterbacks have found themselves in years two and three. Remember too 0-16 and 1-31 means that you have a bad team with missing parts. ........oh let's home Flash Gordon continues to improve and not move to Canada with Johnny Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 14 hours ago, boo fagley said: So, you guys are comfortable with not using a 1st on QB. Maybe...I will start a new thread on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Kizer needs to call Kosar and hang out with him watching film over the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jp91761 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: Kizer needs to call Kosar and hang out with him watching film over the winter. Kizer doesn’t need to get drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, Jp91761 said: Kizer doesn’t need to get drunk. Maybe he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 54 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: Kizer needs to call Kosar and hang out with him watching film over the winter. That might help him read the defense better, but it won't help his inaccuracy issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mark O said: That might help him read the defense better, but it won't help his inaccuracy issues. or...maybe...it would. ? He needs an expert - that obviously isn't Hue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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