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National Title Observations

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On 1/9/2018 at 8:24 AM, boo fagley said:

 

Bama will just keep being in the national championship because they are the best program in the country.

When you have 2 road games out-of-conference against top 25 teams in 35 years, well...

Sorry. 8 home games a year. Never go North of Kentucky or West of College Station, unless it's a bowl game.

Totally coddled, with great recruiting and excellent coaching. Schedule an inferior opponent at the end of a league schedule.

Bear Bryant would certainly disagree with Saban.

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On 1/10/2018 at 4:19 PM, Ghoolie said:

That has nothing to do with football. 5 national titles in 9 years? I don't know jack squat about him personally, but I sure as hell wish the Buckeyes played at the consistently high level that Alabama does. You don't see Alabama getting blown out in national championships games like Clemson did to OSU, or losing to schidt like IOWA by blowout scores.

This is not a post about likability, it is a post about winning championships. People can complain all they want bout refs, and NCAA favoritism, but nobody forced OSU to lose 2 games to weak teams.

Hey Goohlie, I kind of agree. 

But when you haven't seen a bikini in 3 or 4 months, and go to a Bowl Game, you could get a tad distracted.  

I do believe Saban has the "it factor" on motivation. Clearly better than the rest of FBS. 

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1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

When you have 2 road games out-of-conference against top 25 teams in 35 years, well...

Sorry. 8 home games a year. Never go North of Kentucky or West of College Station, unless it's a bowl game.

Totally coddled, with great recruiting and excellent coaching. Schedule an inferior opponent at the end of a league schedule.

Bear Bryant would certainly disagree with Saban.

When youre big dog you get to pick the venues.

Like Ghoolie and fistfights only held in Memphis.

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12 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I can admire and respect a team that has done well.    But you go far beyond that.   You glom onto winning programs as if you had been loyal fans of a program/team through thick and thin.  But you are just a bandwagon jumper.   And you show disrespect and disdain for programs that are not at the top of  their game....even if that team is one where you did/should hold loyalty to.  That is being a FRAK.  

And there is nothing wrong with telling it like it is:   Saban was a failure in the Big Ten as HC....he was a failure as the HC of the Dolphins.  If he was such a great coach then why did he not succeed mightily in those spots?   He only succeeded in the SEC.  Why oh why?  

Its like asking....how could a guy who had been the coach of the Hungarian women's swim team with little success all of a sudden go be the coach of the East German women's swim team...and meet with vast success?   Hmm...I wonder why?

Umm, he was successful at Toledo, took over an 0-11 Michigan State team and went 9-2 in his 5th year (these rebuilds took longer back then), and was just fine as an NFL coach.

8 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

I'm not going to argue how good Saban is as a coach or his dynasty he's made at Alabama.

The only thing that rubs me the wrong way is they've now become the definition of confirmation bias. Yes, when they get there they win but they get the huge advantage of getting to play a a weak schedule. The SEC has been laughably top-heavy for several years now. Outside of this year, Bama's OOC schedule is mediocre, at best for the next 4 years. The SEC has been losing bowls the past several years at a steady clip (5-5 2016, 4-5 2017), but Bama just gets a pass. I know that may come off a bit foolish, but it's alot like any major playoffs-it's all about getting there, and Alabama gets a huge inherent bias that even OSU or other programs don't get.

The point of all this is that 4 teams don't cut the mustard. Move to 8 teams, power 5 winners, G5 highest ranked and two wild cards. #1 and #2 seeds get a bye. If Bama gets through that, I have no qualms about the whole thing.

 

This is such a bad argument. The Bucks lost to Clemson 31-0 just LAST YEAR. It didn't take any confirmation bias to see them get trounced and Bama play a tight game against them the next week, then to see Bama blow them out on New Years Day this year. I don't see why this is so hard to understand? 

3 hours ago, Bob806 said:

When you have 2 road games out-of-conference against top 25 teams in 35 years, well...

Sorry. 8 home games a year. Never go North of Kentucky or West of College Station, unless it's a bowl game.

Totally coddled, with great recruiting and excellent coaching. Schedule an inferior opponent at the end of a league schedule.

Bear Bryant would certainly disagree with Saban.

You really think if Alabama went and played at Washington State or something, they'd lose? You serious? So when they beat Michigan 42-14 in Dallas, somehow if they played in Ann Arbor, they'd lose? They blow Florida State out in Atlanta, but if it were in Tallahassee, they'd lose? Beat Wisconsin by 18 in Dallas, but if it were in Madison, they'd lose? Get real.

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3 hours ago, Bob806 said:

Hey Goohlie, I kind of agree. 

But when you haven't seen a bikini in 3 or 4 months, and go to a Bowl Game, you could get a tad distracted.  

I do believe Saban has the "it factor" on motivation. Clearly better than the rest of FBS. 

Bob, I love the Buckeyes, but this nitpicking about comparing schedules, venues , etc, is just that, nitpicking. 

It is idiotic to think that any 2 teams will meet and not have debatable 8ů absolute top echalon. Buckeyes are chasingn them.

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6 hours ago, wargograw said:

 

This is such a bad argument. The Bucks lost to Clemson 31-0 just LAST YEAR. It didn't take any confirmation bias to see them get trounced and Bama play a tight game against them the next week, then to see Bama blow them out on New Years Day this year. I don't see why this is so hard 

Oh I don't know, maybe it has to do with the fact that teams, especially in college football, aren't the same year to year? And arguing that a team would beat someone based on past season performance is literally the textbook definition of confirmation bias?

God you've been saying dumb Sheet lately. Maybe just take a break. 

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Year in and year out you don't see a Saban team ever blown out by anyone. It's as rare as a Himalayan Snow Leopard. And you see a "Program" that adds top of the heap talent from states all over the map year in and year out. Meyer is close to that, but just a shade under. And just when I think I have Saban pegged, he goes out on a limb the second half with an unknown (to me) freshman QB from Hawaii to win the game. Not just any game. The National Championship game. That gentlemen, is what I call balls.

EDIT: One other important factor I see- Adaptability.   JM beat him with his arm and legs in Tuscaloosa in 2012 and then put up 5 TD's and over 500 yds against him in 2013. Saban bitched and moaned about it a lot because he hates being bested in any way. But then he went out and got himself two back to back dual threat QBs and adapted his offense to take advantage of those JFF-like skills they brought with them. You just saw the end result in the playoffs this year. Un-f'n-real.

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On 1/10/2018 at 12:07 AM, hoorta said:

The Hoorta short scouting report: After that game, I've soured on Chubb. Didn't notice much of Fitzpatrick. Ridley will be gone by the time we pick #33. 

It is rare that a RB doesn't look like garbage against Bama. If you based Fournette's draft position on his performances against them, you would have him as a UDFA. 

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8 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Bob, I love the Buckeyes, but this nitpicking about comparing schedules, venues , etc, is just that, nitpicking. 

It is idiotic to think that any 2 teams will meet and not have debatable 8ů absolute top echalon. Buckeyes are chasingn them.

Nitpicking? Bull-shet it's the freakin records! Since EBRUCE and JCOOP left the Buckeyes have been one of the elite teams over the last 17 years. ALA & OSU's records have been nearly identical.  The big ones .900+ win seasons and national championships. 

Nitpicking?  :lol:

 

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9 hours ago, wargograw said:

Umm, he was successful at Toledo, took over an 0-11 Michigan State team and went 9-2 in his 5th year (these rebuilds took longer back then), and was just fine as an NFL coach.

This is such a bad argument. The Bucks lost to Clemson 31-0 just LAST YEAR. It didn't take any confirmation bias to see them get trounced and Bama play a tight game against them the next week, then to see Bama blow them out on New Years Day this year. I don't see why this is so hard to understand? 

You really think if Alabama went and played at Washington State or something, they'd lose? You serious? So when they beat Michigan 42-14 in Dallas, somehow if they played in Ann Arbor, they'd lose? They blow Florida State out in Atlanta, but if it were in Tallahassee, they'd lose? Beat Wisconsin by 18 in Dallas, but if it were in Madison, they'd lose? Get real.

Totally misinterpreting things grasshopper.

I'm not going to go full Buckeye homer here. Like Ghoolie wrote, the Buckeyes are chasing Alabama, it cannot be denied, even though OSU rallied from a 21-6 deficit and beat the Tide with Cardale Jones in the last meeting :D

This is why I am not totally all-in on college football. It's impossible to have 125+ teams play each other, so perception is a big part of it. Almost like Olympic Ice skating. How in the hell was Ohio State ranked #2 in the nation in the preseason poll, after losing 31-0 to Clemson and a combination of defecting for the draft and graduation, losing about 14 starters? 

So you are denying the simple fact that Alabama doesn't need to test itself in an actual non-conference road game? Most of the perceived elite programs do it, why can't Alabama? Why can't Florida (not elite now, but they NEVER travel)?

Would Alabama lose at Washington State? Probably not, but the odds increase. Would they lose in Madison to Wisconsin? - I wouldn't bet against it happening. 

 

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2 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Nitpicking? Bull-shet it's the freakin records! Since EBRUCE and JCOOP left the Buckeyes have been one of the elite teams over the last 17 years. ALA & OSU's records have been nearly identical.  The big ones .900+ win seasons and national championships. 

Nitpicking?  :lol:

 

I never said the Buckeyes are not elite. But just like the NFL, nobody can match the Steelers championship record, the same goes for Alabama. I don't see where the Buckeyes ever won 5 national championships in 9 years,

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5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Year in and year out you don't see a Saban team ever blown out by anyone. It's as rare as a Himalayan Snow Leopard. And you see a "Program" that adds top of the heap talent from states all over the map year in and year out. Meyer is close to that, but just a shade under. And just when I think I have Saban pegged, he goes out on a limb the second half with an unknown (to me) freshman QB from Hawaii to win the game. Not just any game. The National Championship game. That gentlemen, is what I call balls.

EDIT: One other important factor I see- Adaptability.   JM beat him with his arm and legs in Tuscaloosa in 2012 and then put up 5 TD's and over 500 yds against him in 2013. Saban bitched and moaned about it a lot because he hates being bested in any way. But then he went out and got himself two back to back dual threat QBs and adapted his offense to take advantage of those JFF-like skills they brought with them. You just saw the end result in the playoffs this year. Un-f'n-real.

The Buckeyes are not in the same league with Alabama. Period. Tressel got embarrassed by LSU and Florida, As you pointed out Clemson made the Buckeyes look like sissies. Iowa? IOWA? I shidt team like that clobbers the Buckeyes? ANd the Buckeyes cry because they weren't given a chance to prove their worth? Fukck that. The Buckeyes were a second tier team this year.

As you pointed out, you never see Saban getting blown out, especially by a nobody.

Hands down, Alabama is a better football program than OSU. Championships..............debate not needed.

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18 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

Oh I don't know, maybe it has to do with the fact that teams, especially in college football, aren't the same year to year? And arguing that a team would beat someone based on past season performance is literally the textbook definition of confirmation bias?

God you've been saying dumb Sheet lately. Maybe just take a break. 

Dude, you're the one that's saying the dynasty rubs you the wrong way because they don't play anyone. How does that only singularly apply to this year? You clearly made a general point that applies over several years. So I answered in that vain. I'm not sure logic is your strong suit. 

Also, Ohio State losing 31-0 and then Alabama losing to the same team on the last play of the game in an epic matchup just a few days later is in the same year right? Or does that not count either?

Hey I bet if instead of playing at a neutral site, Alabama and Michigan State had played in East Lansing in 2015, Michigan State totally would've won instead of losing 38-0. Definitely.

14 hours ago, Bob806 said:

Totally misinterpreting things grasshopper.

I'm not going to go full Buckeye homer here. Like Ghoolie wrote, the Buckeyes are chasing Alabama, it cannot be denied, even though OSU rallied from a 21-6 deficit and beat the Tide with Cardale Jones in the last meeting :D

This is why I am not totally all-in on college football. It's impossible to have 125+ teams play each other, so perception is a big part of it. Almost like Olympic Ice skating. How in the hell was Ohio State ranked #2 in the nation in the preseason poll, after losing 31-0 to Clemson and a combination of defecting for the draft and graduation, losing about 14 starters? 

So you are denying the simple fact that Alabama doesn't need to test itself in an actual non-conference road game? Most of the perceived elite programs do it, why can't Alabama? Why can't Florida (not elite now, but they NEVER travel)?

Would Alabama lose at Washington State? Probably not, but the odds increase. Would they lose in Madison to Wisconsin? - I wouldn't bet against it happening. 

 

Because they're in the SEC which is the best conference in the country, and any Ohio State fan has serious trouble disputing that.

They beat a ranked Penn State team in Happy Valley by 16, and that's before the dynasty really got going. Yeah I'm sure they're really scared of going to Wisconsin.

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2 hours ago, wargograw said:

Dude, you're the one that's saying the dynasty rubs you the wrong way because they don't play anyone. How does that only singularly apply to this year? You clearly made a general point that applies over several years. So I answered in that vain. I'm not sure logic is your strong suit. 

Also, Ohio State losing 31-0 and then Alabama losing to the same team on the last play of the game in an epic matchup just a few days later is in the same year right? Or does that not count either?

Hey I bet if instead of playing at a neutral site, Alabama and Michigan State had played in East Lansing in 2015, Michigan State totally would've won instead of losing 38-0. Definitely.

Because they're in the SEC which is the best conference in the country, and any Ohio State fan has serious trouble disputing that.

They beat a ranked Penn State team in Happy Valley by 16, and that's before the dynasty really got going. Yeah I'm sure they're really scared of going to Wisconsin.

Schedules are arranged years in advance. When they stop playing D2 creampuffs, let me know.

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2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Schedules are arranged years in advance. When they stop playing D2 creampuffs, let me know.

When OSU joins the SEC West, let me know.:lol:

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11 hours ago, wargograw said:

 

Because they're in the SEC which is the best conference in the country, and any Ohio State fan has serious trouble disputing that.

They beat a ranked Penn State team in Happy Valley by 16, and that's before the dynasty really got going. Yeah I'm sure they're really scared of going to Wisconsin.

Apparently you didn't read my comment. I stated OSU is chasing Alabama. Everybody is chasing Alabama, particularly since 2008.  https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/alabama/

And, this isn't exactly breaking news here, but Alabama was down for a period after Bear Bryant, but never really out. Always in the conversations of best program in the country, like about 6 or 7 other programs, even without winning national championships. 

FYI...winning national championships is hard. This whole SEC superiority complex causes SEC fans to knock other programs, like Ohio State, Clemson, Texas, USC, Miami, Nebraska, Notre Dame etc etc because they don't play in the SEC. It's the SEC who's paranoid, that's why they rarely travel. Playing in Wisconsin isn't an easy chore, it's similar to LSU in fan craziness, and Saban would verify it from his days at MSU.

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On 1/13/2018 at 12:47 AM, wargograw said:

 

Because they're in the SEC which is the best conference in the country, and any Ohio State fan has serious trouble disputing that.

Once upon a time the SEC may have been the best conference in the country. But the ACC has had their number for 2 years running..and the Big Ten is a better overall conference.  SEC may have a couple of the best teams...but it drops off precipitously after that.

 

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On 1/13/2018 at 6:10 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

When OSU joins the SEC West, let me know.:lol:

The Big Ten East is better than the SEC West....this year, anyway.

Sorry, but TAMU is a Purdue wannabe.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

The Big Ten East is better than the SEC West....this year, anyway.

Sorry, but TAMU is a Purdue wannabe.

Which explains so many fired coaches in the SEC West last couple of years and Mullen smart enough to switch to Florida.

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Saban has capitalized using Hallmark Tressel-ball in a conference that is not only on a downswing, but (nearly) completely devoid of offensive talent.   

Couple that with some EXTREMELY fortunate occurances, I.E. Texas without Colt McCoy, being gift wrapped a not-so-great ND squad and a rematch against LSU they never should have been given.

Still, what he has done is without equal in modern college football.   That does deserve recognition.   

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And the debate rages on!

Actually most all things in sports are indeed cyclical. 

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On 1/13/2018 at 2:49 AM, hoorta said:

Schedules are arranged years in advance. When they stop playing D2 creampuffs, let me know.

When Ohio State plays up to their level against common opponents, let me know.

On 1/13/2018 at 11:03 AM, Bob806 said:

Apparently you didn't read my comment. I stated OSU is chasing Alabama. Everybody is chasing Alabama, particularly since 2008.  https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/alabama/

And, this isn't exactly breaking news here, but Alabama was down for a period after Bear Bryant, but never really out. Always in the conversations of best program in the country, like about 6 or 7 other programs, even without winning national championships. 

FYI...winning national championships is hard. This whole SEC superiority complex causes SEC fans to knock other programs, like Ohio State, Clemson, Texas, USC, Miami, Nebraska, Notre Dame etc etc because they don't play in the SEC. It's the SEC who's paranoid, that's why they rarely travel. Playing in Wisconsin isn't an easy chore, it's similar to LSU in fan craziness, and Saban would verify it from his days at MSU.

I would never knock Ohio State as a program. I've said it's the number 1 program of all time. And I grew up loving USC. Nebraska had their time in the limelight and were excellent but won't get back there without some major demographic shift in their area. 30+ years away at least. Notre Dame, sure. Give them alot of credit. Clemson I think is the #3 program in the country at the current moment (they are not, however, an all time top 5 powerhouse by any means). Miami is simply not in the all-time greats, though I do respect their work the last 30 years and love the culture there.

Oddly enough when I was growing up (during Alabama's lean years) I wasn't even aware that they were a powerhouse on the level of an Ohio State and USC. Fortunately I've learned quite a bit about the game since then.

13 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Once upon a time the SEC may have been the best conference in the country. But the ACC has had their number for 2 years running..and the Big Ten is a better overall conference.  SEC may have a couple of the best teams...but it drops off precipitously after that.

Nah. The ACC has one team (especially now with Jimbo gone), and the Big 10 has one team. I admit they're both on par with the best the SEC has to offer. That doesn't mean anything for the conference at large though.

11 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Saban has capitalized using Hallmark Tressel-ball in a conference that is not only on a downswing, but (nearly) completely devoid of offensive talent.   

Couple that with some EXTREMELY fortunate occurances, I.E. Texas without Colt McCoy, being gift wrapped a not-so-great ND squad and a rematch against LSU they never should have been given.

Still, what he has done is without equal in modern college football.   That does deserve recognition.   

It's not devoid of "talent" if we are to go by recruiting rankings. It is certainly devoid of offensive performance, if that's what you mean. But that's in large part due to the defenses being so good and how they stifle the development of most of the QBs. If my kid were a QB I wouldn't advise him to go to an SEC school honestly. 

No one knows how the 2009 game goes even with Colt. I totally disagree that you can know definitely how a game will go based on the first two series. I have a friend who always goes "oh yeah, we're gonna blow these losers out" or "wow, we're gonna lose this game to these bums" based on the first series every single week. He almost always looks like an idiot no sooner than the end of the first quarter. 

You're not actually gonna make the Oklahoma State argument, are you? You? A guy who respects defense? Come on. 

Even without those two, the guy has 4 national championships. 3 in the last 6 years. I know you claim you're still giving him credit even while totally taking away from his accomplishments, but even in your scenario he's the GOAT. 

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Nah. The ACC has one team (especially now with Jimbo gone), and the Big 10 has one team. I admit they're both on par with the best the SEC has to offer. That doesn't mean anything for the conference at large though.

That is just stupid bias and prejudice.  The SEC has two teams.....the Big Ten East alone had 4 teams better than any SEC team except the DDR and Georgia...and we don't really know about that since they never played.

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The SEC has two teams? Even though it also has a team that beat both of them. Yeah. Ok.

 

I won't argue too much about the Big 10, but the ACC is way overrated.

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10 hours ago, wargograw said:

The SEC has two teams? Even though it also has a team that beat both of them. Yeah. Ok.

 

I won't argue too much about the Big 10, but the ACC is way overrated.

Quoting Bill Parcells:  you are what your record is....and over the last couple of years the ACC has handed the SEC their hat....and they have played a lot more games against each other than either plays, say, the Big Ten.

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