Alex smith

[Tour2ma]

On 1/11/2018 at 5:44 AM, jiggins7919 said:

Does anyone have any clue what it would take to trade for Alex Smith? I know at one point people wanted to wait for him to be released, that way he costs only money and not draft picks, but waiting for a release would probably guarantee that he signs with a team who WASN'T 0-16. You can bet your paycheck Arizona is going to be ALL over Smith as well, so I'm guessing the price for his services is going to be pretty high...but how high? 

On 1/11/2018 at 6:24 AM, LogicIsForSquares said:

A talking head on ESPN radio was mentioning a 3rd or possibly a 2nd rounder. 

Feels right...

On 1/11/2018 at 6:33 AM, boo fagley said:

They are talking 2 - 1st round picks on KC sports radio which is ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that anyone would give a 1st round pick for Smith.

I will say a 2nd round pick which is still too much for my liking, but if KC flat let him go and certain criteria were reached by Smith in 2018 on his new team, KC could very well receive a 3rd round compensatory pick for Smith.

If KC "let's him go", then they are not entitled to a compensatory pick. Trade is their only option for getting anything in return plus it saves them ~$4mm in dead money.

Agree with your trade valuation. A low 2nd would be my limit.

[syd]

6 hours ago, Bigalow80 said:

I know everyone has linked the Browns to Alex Smith because of Dorsey but let's factor in a few things:

1) Dorsey traded for him 5 years ago...when he was 29 and still in the prime of his career. He will be 34/35 going into next season

2.) He traded UP in last year's draft to get a qb whom he thought was SIGNIFICANTLY better than him for this team. AKA, he was ready to move on from him

3.) Smith is owed almost $20 million next year. Not many teams can absorb that money. Obviously, the browns can, but why should they?

4.) Chiefs fans are delusional if anyone is offering a 2nd round pick for him. The chiefs have to make a decision before the first day of the league year, if not sooner about a)picking up his bonus b ) they are already OVER the cap. The best offer they are going to get is MAYBE a 4th with potential to be a 3rd and I highly doubt that is the case. Let's look at the suitors: Cleveland, Arizona (whom I think is going full tank), Jax (Kirk Cousins all-in and is Smith at this point that much better than Bortles plus if Tyrod Taylor is on the market), Denver (no way Elway wants a 34 y/o qb), Jets (see Josh McCown), Washington (assuming they don't resign cousins), Buffalo (assuming they release Taylor, but is Smith that much better than Taylor),  and maybe Pittsburgh (if Big Ben retires)...Everywhere else he is going to be a back-up. 

5.) The Chiefs have all but said Mahomes is the starting qb next year

SO based on this reasoning, someone please tell me WHY the Browns are going to give up a high round draft choice for this guy? I'm not saying he wouldn't be a welcome addition to this team, but I will not be happy if the Browns give up any top 65 picks for Alex Smith. That's just wasting picks and throwing them away. Then franchise tag a 34 y/o declining qb at $26 million per year? Are you crazy? Now, instead of wasting draft picks, the Browns are wasting money. If people haven't read the tea leaves, AJ McCarron is whom the Browns want. They are praying that he becomes an unrestricted FA on February 15th when the league rules on his eligibility...Being the collusionist that I am, I think the NFL rules in favor of the Bengals. The browns would much rather trade for him than Alex Smith. 

Hell yes you can give up a 2nd for him and then use are #1 pick on a Q.B I mean no one is gonna give a Sheet about what we gave up just as long as the Q.B situation is solidified 

[Suomi]

"Two firsts for Smith" say the Chiefs fans.  

"No higher than a 3rd" exclaim the Browns fans.

You're all nuts.

The Browns need a legitimate NFL QB in the worst way - not the least of which is to instill an attitude of winning in that locker room.  The Browns are desperate for such a player.  In my opinion only two such players are available this off season- Smith and Cousins.  

Obtaining Cousins is the least problematic option.  The Browns can simply 1) convince him that Cleveland is his best option (not an easy sales job, but that's why the GM gets big bucks) and 2) pay him more than anyone else.  If secured, Cousins will be a Brown under contract for 4 or 5 years.

Smith, however, doesn't come with any long-term certainty.  He's got one year left on his contract and, if the Browns obtain him via trade, they'll have to secure him to a longer-term deal or the trade will arguably have been a worthless 1-year rental.  Again, that's why the GM gets big bucks - it's his job to make that happen.

Of the two QB's I'm partial to Smith.  He's coming off a season where he led the NFL in QBR and in completed passes of 30+ air yards.  He is not a "dink and dunk" passer as some claim.  Josh Gordon and Cory Coleman would be exciting and productive deep threats with Smith at QB.  

The Browns are in a good position to obtain Smith via trade.  They have more realistic ammo than any other squad.  By realistic ammo I mean second-round picks and plenty of cap room.  Because that's all it should take to get him.  Smith is worth more than a 3rd round pick to a QB desperate team, and there are few clubs that can afford to take on his salary.

Bottom line - if the Browns have to offer their first pick in the second round to outbid all others to obtain Smith they should do it.  Heck, they'd still be on the clock two picks later.  There is NOBODY in the draft available at pick #33 that would come anywhere CLOSE to the value that Smith would bring to the Browns.  Nobody.

That would be considered the steal of the draft. And a refreshing step in the right direction to returning the Browns to a legitimate, exciting NFL franchise.

[Nero]

18 minutes ago, Suomi said:

"Two firsts for Smith" say the Chiefs fans.  

"No higher than a 3rd" exclaim the Browns fans.

You're all nuts.

The Browns need a legitimate NFL QB in the worst way - not the least of which is to instill an attitude of winning in that locker room.  The Browns are desperate for such a player.  In my opinion only two such players are available this off season- Smith and Cousins.  

Obtaining Cousins is the least problematic option.  The Browns can simply 1) convince him that Cleveland is his best option (not an easy sales job, but that's why the GM gets big bucks) and 2) pay him more than anyone else.  If secured, Cousins will be a Brown under contract for 4 or 5 years.

Smith, however, doesn't come with any long-term certainty.  He's got one year left on his contract and, if the Browns obtain him via trade, they'll have to secure him to a longer-term deal or the trade will arguably have been a worthless 1-year rental.  Again, that's why the GM gets big bucks - it's his job to make that happen.

Of the two QB's I'm partial to Smith.  He's coming off a season where he led the NFL in QBR and in completed passes of 30+ air yards.  He is not a "dink and dunk" passer as some claim.  Josh Gordon and Cory Coleman would be exciting and productive deep threats with Smith at QB.  

The Browns are in a good position to obtain Smith via trade.  They have more realistic ammo than any other squad.  By realistic ammo I mean second-round picks and plenty of cap room.  Because that's all it should take to get him.  Smith is worth more than a 3rd round pick to a QB desperate team, and there are few clubs that can afford to take on his salary.

Bottom line - if the Browns have to offer their first pick in the second round to outbid all others to obtain Smith they should do it.  Heck, they'd still be on the clock two picks later.  There is NOBODY in the draft available at pick #33 that would come anywhere CLOSE to the value that Smith would bring to the Browns.  Nobody.

That would be considered the steal of the draft. And a refreshing step in the right direction to returning the Browns to a legitimate, exciting NFL franchise.

Agreed on Smith. The Browns haven't had a good QB since... Kosar? Now you give a #33 and get 3 maybe 4 years of a good solid quaterback. Plus we have many other picks.

How many times you draft a second rounder and are THAT certain that he will contribute next 3 years? Just think of 3 years being able to FORGET about the QB position, because maybe Smith isn't great as Montana, but he's a good enough QB that if you get a good team around him will give you very good chances of becoming a contender. 

I can see Smith getting injured or the rookie QB that we draft not being as good as we thought he'd be or ending up as a bust. Anything can happen and you can't be 100% sure about anything. But I don't see happening both things at the same time.

[jiggins7919]

18 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Feels right...

If KC "let's him go", then they are not entitled to a compensatory pick. Trade is their only option for getting anything in return plus it saves them ~$4mm in dead money.

Agree with your trade valuation. A low 2nd would be my limit.

If all it takes is a second round pick, then we have to make the deal. Obviously, the difficulty will be for us to hang on to our HIGHER ones (33 and 35 I think) and then trade the one from later in the 2nd. That being said, Kansas City kind of has us bent over a barrel, and if push comes to shove, I imagine we'll make the deal for whichever pick is needed to get the job done. 

As many of us have stated, we aren't EXACTLY the prime free agent destination for obvious reasons. This is why TRADING for the QB we want makes the most sense. Some fans may argue that the Chiefs are simply going to release Smith, so why not save our draft picks and sign him from free agency? Well the answer is we most likely would not GET him because he'd have his choice of basically 4 teams, and I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be at the top of the list. We have 3 second rounders, let's use one on a STARTING QB. 

Fans like myself are already dreaming about Alex Smith throwing to Duke Johnson, Josh Gordon, Corey Coleman (let's forgive him already), Seth Devalve (he could BREAK OUT with Smith), and David Njoku. Hue Jackson was good at scheming guys open, and obviously Alex Smith isn't going to complete EVERYTHING, but his accuracy would be a giant improvement. How many times did Kizer over shoot Njoku on that deep seam or down the sideline? Alex throws that as well as anyone. I think the big question mark is Josh Gordon (duh). Just about every fan has now entered the "waiting to read/hear bad news on Gordon" part of the offseason, and it's something that really hasn't let us down in the past. We waited for it, and we got it. Truth be told, this version of Gordon APPEARS to be the real thing, but the NFL drug program is no joke, and he doesn't even have to test positive to be banished. He can miss a test, be late for one, have diluted urine, or take Nyquil for a cold and then be positive for alcohol. Make no mistake, we need him. He wasn't completely in tune with the offense, but you could definitely see what he means to a QB. He also opens up the field for everyone else AND gives the defense something to worry about. An important factor we were sorely lacking. 

Could we still be a 5 or even 6 win team with another QB, maybe Bradford, Keenum, or even Teddy Twatwater? I honestly don't think so, which is why I'm so over the top for Smith. Even if we only get him for 2-3 years, that guy be enough to propel our franchise forward for the first time in forever. 

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, Suomi said:

... simply 1) convince him that Cleveland is his best option..

Smith, however, doesn't come with any long-term certainty.  He's got one year left on his contract and, if the Browns obtain him via trade, they'll have to secure him to a longer-term deal or the trade will arguably have been a worthless 1-year rental.

Anything but simple...

With Smith, as with any vet, there is always the certainty of the tag on which to fall back. If we have not found and prepared our long-term QB by the 2020 season, then it will become the next-next FO's problem.

4 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

That being said, Kansas City kind of has us bent over a barrel, and if push comes to shove, I imagine we'll make the deal for whichever pick is needed to get the job done.

But there is the counter pressure on KC to clear cap space... and only a trade clears the full $20mm.

[The Gipper]

NO veteran that is going to be brought in here is going to be anything but a bridge QB...to whomever we likely take at #1 overall.     And NO bridge QB, in my opinion is worth more than a 3rd rounder.  

If Smith cannot be gotten for a 3rd rounder....and maybe I would throw in at best a 6th or 7th....I would not make the trade.  There will be other veteran FA QBs out there.

[Westside Steve]

33 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

NO veteran that is going to be brought in here is going to be anything but a bridge QB...to whomever we likely take at #1 overall.     And NO bridge QB, in my opinion is worth more than a 3rd rounder.  

If Smith cannot be gotten for a 3rd rounder....and maybe I would throw in at best a 6th or 7th....I would not make the trade.  There will be other veteran FA QBs out there.

I think if Kirk Cousins is as good as some of the Pumpers around here think he's better than a bridge quarterback. He could play here for a good number more years. 

I don't particularly think of him that way but some of you guys seem to. At least we don't have to give up a high pic just some loose cash.

WSS

[BrownB499]

Buffalo is a QB away from being a perennial playoff contender...They have 2 first round picks...I believe they'd be willing to give up one of those picks for Smith 

We are not giving up a top 5 pick for Smith...Thus I don't see us as a player for Smith.

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

... NO bridge QB, in my opinion is worth more than a 3rd rounder.  

If Smith cannot be gotten for a 3rd rounder....maybe I would throw in at best a 6th or 7th....

Way to take a stand.

[Ghoolie]

Alex SMith Holds the ball too fukcking long. He blows.

 

[LBC mike]

Kiser and a pick for Smith 

[The Gipper]

54 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Way to take a stand.

Sorry you can't follow the logic. I would not give up higher than a third rounder but if you give up a third rounder and a lore pick I would go along with that pier and simple what's your problem can't comprehend itSorry you can't follow the logic. I would not give up higher than a third rounder but if you give up a third rounder and a lore pick I would go along with that pier and simple what's your problem can't comprehend it

[Tour2ma]

A 3rd + 6th is more than a 3rd...

[The Gipper]

19 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

A 3rd + 6th is more than a 3rd...

No Sheet SherlockNo Sheet Sherlock

[Tour2ma]

51 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

No Sheet SherlockNo Sheet Sherlock

In that case... you give logic a bad name.

[BaconHound]

On 1/7/2018 at 3:52 PM, Westside Steve said:

Not sure I'm following you. You would give 1 and 4 and 33 to get Alex Smith? 

I will trade them Kizer straight up. 

WSS

No I’d trade #35 for Alex Smith and leave this years draft with #1, #4, #33 and Alex 

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, BaconHound said:

No I’d trade #35 for Alex Smith and leave this years draft with #1, #4, #33 and Alex 

Plus the other second rounder.

[The Gipper]

16 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

In that case... you give logic a bad name.

You give humanity and civility a bad name.

[wargograw]

13 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You give humanity and civility a bad name.

That's rich.

[darren15]

21 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You give humanity and civility a bad name.

Can we turn that into a Bon Jovi song ?

[jiggins7919]

On 1/13/2018 at 10:25 AM, Nero said:

Agreed on Smith. The Browns haven't had a good QB since... Kosar? Now you give a #33 and get 3 maybe 4 years of a good solid quaterback. Plus we have many other picks.

How many times you draft a second rounder and are THAT certain that he will contribute next 3 years? Just think of 3 years being able to FORGET about the QB position, because maybe Smith isn't great as Montana, but he's a good enough QB that if you get a good team around him will give you very good chances of becoming a contender. 

I can see Smith getting injured or the rookie QB that we draft not being as good as we thought he'd be or ending up as a bust. Anything can happen and you can't be 100% sure about anything. But I don't see happening both things at the same time.

This. ALL of this. Make it happen FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. 

And I think it actually does happen. 

[Unsympathetic]

None of this. For the love of God, make none of it happen.  And I don't think it does happen --- because of money.

 

Chiefs are over the cap before signing any of their own FA's and think they're going to get picks?  No way. Browns have all the cards.  If Chiefs want to make a trade, they need to add picks for us to take their salary.

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, darren15 said:

Can we turn that into a Bon Jovi song ?

Sounds more like a Cher political song in the making.

[jrb12711]

On 1/13/2018 at 3:29 PM, Tour2ma said:

But there is the counter pressure on KC to clear cap space... and only a trade clears the full $20mm.

And again, this cannot be stated enough. I get he may be worth in terms of value, but I'd bet a cold 6 pack he'll go for a late 2nd. It's well known the Chiefs are in a complete bind on how they can pay Smith the $20 million without making serious roster cuts to pay him. Who knows, maybe that's the route they go.

But don't forget what Houston gave US just to clear up cap space last year. Knowing the boner they have for Mahomes and the fact they are bent over a barrel cap space wise, teams aren't going to bend on draft value. There's no need to give up a valuable pick in the 30s.

[The Gipper]

53 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Sounds more like a Cher political song in the making.

You give humanity and civility a bad name.

Can we turn that into a Bon Jovi song ?

Joni Mitchell maybe

Actually....more Alannis Morrisette.   She is always going all emo on us, no?

[Unsympathetic]

I think we wait out KC and KC gives us a 6th to take Smith off their cap.

Browns are the only team they can trade with -- they need that cap relief both for resigning their own and other FA and draft picks..

That means we hold the cards, period -- we could just sign one of the MIN QB's if need be.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

I think we wait out KC and KC gives us a 6th to take Smith off their cap.

Browns are the only team they can trade with -- they need that cap relief both for resigning their own and other FA and draft picks..

That means we hold the cards, period -- we could just sign one of the MIN QB's if need be.

How do you come to the conclusion that the Browns are the only team they can trade with?  Several teams may be looking for the services of Smith.  A few others may be in the same position that we are in....looking for a "bridge guy".  Cardinals for one.   I would say that the Broncos could be in for the services of Smith but the Chefs will not trade him in their division.  Hell...the Vikings may be looking for a QB of his stature...since all theirs will be FAs.  Redskins maybe if Cousins does not go back there.  Jets possibly.  Maybe even the Bills if they are Tyred of Tyrod. 

So...again, explain how we are the only ones. Hell....KC could just decide to keep him as well.  Why not?

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

None of this. For the love of God, make none of it happen.  And I don't think it does happen --- because of money.

 

Chiefs are over the cap before signing any of their own FA's and think they're going to get picks?  No way. Browns have all the cards.  If Chiefs want to make a trade, they need to add picks for us to take their salary.

You're dreaming. It only takes two teams to start a bidding war U. Kansas City has an asset that we (and several other teams) may find desirable. The Browns definitely don't have all the cards. This isn't even remotely comparable to us getting a second round pick to take Osweiler off the Texans' hands- Smith is a proven commodity, Osweiler stunk in Houston. 

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

I think we wait out KC and KC gives us a 6th to take Smith off their cap.

Browns are the only team they can trade with -- they need that cap relief both for resigning their own and other FA and draft picks..

That means we hold the cards, period -- we could just sign one of the MIN QB's if need be.

Second things first. Vikings China Doll Bradford, or bum knee Teddy? Going for factory seconds again? No thanks. 

As to no other team being able to bid, Wrongo. We probably have the most draft assets to win a bidding war, but there's a bunch of other QB needy teams that can finagle (or easily manage) to get Smith's salary under the cap. Take a look. 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

Cardinals- $10 milion

Jaguars (short of winning the Super Bowl, they may dump Bortles) $17 million

Broncos (shades of getting Manning, their window is closing fast) $29 million

Bills (bye Tyrod, hello Alex, BTW they have two first round picks one of which would trump one of our seconds) $31 million

Redskins (if Cousins walks) $52 million. 

Jets $72 million

10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

How do you come to the conclusion that the Browns are the only team they can trade with?  Several teams may be looking for the services of Smith.  A few others may be in the same position that we are in....looking for a "bridge guy".  Cardinals for one.   I would say that the Broncos could be in for the services of Smith but the Chefs will not trade him in their division.  Hell...the Vikings may be looking for a QB of his stature...since all theirs will be FAs.  Redskins maybe if Cousins does not go back there.  Jets possibly.  Maybe even the Bills if they are Tyred of Tyrod. 

So...again, explain how we are the only ones. Hell....KC could just decide to keep him as well.  Why not?

See above- only thing I'll disagree on Gip is to keep Smith, they would have to dump several high priced vets to stay under the cap. Even trading a guy like Eric Berry wouldn't get it done...   Good point on the Broncos though...   

[The Gipper]

15 minutes ago, hoorta said:

You're dreaming. It only takes two teams to start a bidding war U. Kansas City has an asset that we (and several other teams) may find desirable. The Browns definitely don't have all the cards. This isn't even remotely comparable to us getting a second round pick to take Osweiler off the Texans' hands- Smith is a proven commodity, Osweiler stunk in Houston. 

Second things first. Vikings China Doll Bradford, or bum knee Teddy? Going for factory seconds again? No thanks. 

As to no other team being able to bid, Wrongo. We probably have the most draft assets to win a bidding war, but there's a bunch of other QB needy teams that can finagle (or easily manage) to get Smith's salary under the cap. Take a look. 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

Cardinals- $10 milion

Jaguars (short of winning the Super Bowl, they may dump Bortles) $17 million

Broncos (shades of getting Manning, their window is closing fast) $29 million

Bills (bye Tyrod, hello Alex, BTW they have two first round picks one of which would trump one of our seconds) $31 million

Redskins (if Cousins walks) $52 million. 

Jets $72 million

See above- only thing I'll disagree on Gip is to keep Smith, they would have to dump several high priced vets to stay under the cap. Even trading a guy like Eric Berry wouldn't get it done...   Good point on the Broncos though...   

OK, so KC will be under the gun:  Do they keep Smith...or some of their other "high priced" vets.   Who are those guys?  And would they be more or less expendable than Smith to the Chiefs?